Across the Line of Control
Zafar Choudhary May 14, 2006
#88 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on May 18, 2006 9:25:42 am
arstoo bhai,
and furthermore...
I really mean it. This decent, credible, honest, and compassionate man was a gift of God to mankind. Imagine someone in the 7th century having the ideals that he put forth, promoted, and even struggled to implement. Go ahead, put the tests of selfishness, debauchery, greed, cowardice, self-promotion, and thirst for power against this man`s life. Did he become king, emir, badshah, emperor, dictator, governor, god, son of god, cousin of god, or even a high priest? Being called Servant of God and Messenger of God are his titles. As a young man of 25 he married a 40 year old widow and never took on another wife until after her death. And then when he did marry, he did it for reasons of alliance, unity, and support as was customary in the Arabia of his time. Marrying a six year old daughter of your best friend has been called pedophilia by some of our friends here who are infused with the highest sense of morality. Of course, they fail to consider that pedophiles are repeat offenders, they do not rest with just one such experience - they repeat their disgusting practice over and over and over. The Holy Prophet (PBUH) married a black woman, a Christian Copt, and yes his best friend`s daughter - to set an example and achieve unity, equality, and tolerance in the community. Times change and societies` standards change. People in those days did not use deodorants, antibiotics, sunglasses, and electric shavers either.
and furthermore...
I really mean it. This decent, credible, honest, and compassionate man was a gift of God to mankind. Imagine someone in the 7th century having the ideals that he put forth, promoted, and even struggled to implement. Go ahead, put the tests of selfishness, debauchery, greed, cowardice, self-promotion, and thirst for power against this man`s life. Did he become king, emir, badshah, emperor, dictator, governor, god, son of god, cousin of god, or even a high priest? Being called Servant of God and Messenger of God are his titles. As a young man of 25 he married a 40 year old widow and never took on another wife until after her death. And then when he did marry, he did it for reasons of alliance, unity, and support as was customary in the Arabia of his time. Marrying a six year old daughter of your best friend has been called pedophilia by some of our friends here who are infused with the highest sense of morality. Of course, they fail to consider that pedophiles are repeat offenders, they do not rest with just one such experience - they repeat their disgusting practice over and over and over. The Holy Prophet (PBUH) married a black woman, a Christian Copt, and yes his best friend`s daughter - to set an example and achieve unity, equality, and tolerance in the community. Times change and societies` standards change. People in those days did not use deodorants, antibiotics, sunglasses, and electric shavers either.
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#87 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on May 18, 2006 9:02:21 am
arstoo #82, {``Salim how you can love a person like Kothan. Please tell me.``}
Arstoo Bhai,
I have never heard of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) being referred to as ``Khotan.`` Also, the various vices which you are attributing to him are something that the ``Sword of Truth`` type of credible sources usually create. My belief in the Holy Prophet (PBUH) is based on what I have been taught by my elders and what I have read - mostly by western authors like Washington Irving, always discounting for their malicious intent. In fact, my own personal pacifism, concern for all human beings, and compassion for the weak and aggrieved stems from my faith in Prophet Mohammed (PBUH). I have no personal lineage, connection, or ethnic/racial affinity with Arabs in general and the Holy Prophet (PBUH) in particular.
Of course, all great men in history have been subjected to their detractors` versions of their lives. In fact, even more recent individuals such as Gandhiji, Nehru, Jinnah, Roosevelt, Eisenhower, MacArthur, and others have had every shred of their personal clothing torn by juicy gossip hunters.
In my own case, I have tried my best to use objectivity, rational thinking, and horizontal vs. vertical evaluations (i.e. comparing people with their peers and not to people, events, and standards 1500 years later). Here are the reasons for my faith in the Holy Prophet (PBUH):
1. He was considered ``Ameen`` or honest even by his enemies.
2. He stood up for monotheism despite great personal losses to himself, his family, his kin, and his tribe.
3. He freed slaves and asked his followers to do the same - placing this act among the most virtuous of virtues.
4. He never invented fancy titles for himself. A messenger is nothing more than a postman, a chaprasi, a servant.
5. He did not aspire to riches for himself, his family, his kin, or his people.
6. He got married out of love and devotion to a widow 15 years his senior. She proposed to him, because she was impressed by his sincerity, his love, and his honesty.
7. He was often in doubt about his own abilities, competence, and determination - and he shared these doubts with his friends and relatives.
8. He did not select his descendants or relatives to succeed him - of course, there was no real benefit in taking on his burden.
9. His sermon delivered during his last pilgrimage at Mt. Arafat is still a sincere example of what a father would say to his children on his own deathbed.
10. He did not discriminate white over black, Arab over non-Arab, rich over poor, free over slave, and powerful over weak. In fact, he was outspoken early on for defending the weak, the slaves, the poor, the oppressed, and the outcaste. It is no wonder that to this day, his appeal is strongest among dark-skinned, backward, and poor people. Now, you may understand why so many lower castes in India converted to his message.
Arstoo Bhai,
I have never heard of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) being referred to as ``Khotan.`` Also, the various vices which you are attributing to him are something that the ``Sword of Truth`` type of credible sources usually create. My belief in the Holy Prophet (PBUH) is based on what I have been taught by my elders and what I have read - mostly by western authors like Washington Irving, always discounting for their malicious intent. In fact, my own personal pacifism, concern for all human beings, and compassion for the weak and aggrieved stems from my faith in Prophet Mohammed (PBUH). I have no personal lineage, connection, or ethnic/racial affinity with Arabs in general and the Holy Prophet (PBUH) in particular.
Of course, all great men in history have been subjected to their detractors` versions of their lives. In fact, even more recent individuals such as Gandhiji, Nehru, Jinnah, Roosevelt, Eisenhower, MacArthur, and others have had every shred of their personal clothing torn by juicy gossip hunters.
In my own case, I have tried my best to use objectivity, rational thinking, and horizontal vs. vertical evaluations (i.e. comparing people with their peers and not to people, events, and standards 1500 years later). Here are the reasons for my faith in the Holy Prophet (PBUH):
1. He was considered ``Ameen`` or honest even by his enemies.
2. He stood up for monotheism despite great personal losses to himself, his family, his kin, and his tribe.
3. He freed slaves and asked his followers to do the same - placing this act among the most virtuous of virtues.
4. He never invented fancy titles for himself. A messenger is nothing more than a postman, a chaprasi, a servant.
5. He did not aspire to riches for himself, his family, his kin, or his people.
6. He got married out of love and devotion to a widow 15 years his senior. She proposed to him, because she was impressed by his sincerity, his love, and his honesty.
7. He was often in doubt about his own abilities, competence, and determination - and he shared these doubts with his friends and relatives.
8. He did not select his descendants or relatives to succeed him - of course, there was no real benefit in taking on his burden.
9. His sermon delivered during his last pilgrimage at Mt. Arafat is still a sincere example of what a father would say to his children on his own deathbed.
10. He did not discriminate white over black, Arab over non-Arab, rich over poor, free over slave, and powerful over weak. In fact, he was outspoken early on for defending the weak, the slaves, the poor, the oppressed, and the outcaste. It is no wonder that to this day, his appeal is strongest among dark-skinned, backward, and poor people. Now, you may understand why so many lower castes in India converted to his message.
#86 Posted by swarrier on May 18, 2006 6:38:40 am
Re: # 83
Harimau,
I was not aware of this and it makes me cringe.
Of course is open to interpretation by vidwans and the like, who fool around for more complications. It`s like listening to some artistes who claim they have invented a new raaga, and pick up some old one and add an extra note in some vakra format and use it sparingly. In this case it would mean some erudite soul would say ``Ah I`ll just touch the tivra Madhyam as I go up from Ga to Pa exactly once in 100 ascensions of the scale``. Personally I` d prefer to kick them. It changes the raaga completely.
For me , if I want Ni and Ma in Bhoop , I will listen to Shudh Kalyan and call it such. That way I can listen to Bhoop in the aroha and Kalyan in the avroha.-)
Sorry for the digression. One has to draw lines to control impurities in interpretation.
Harimau,
I was not aware of this and it makes me cringe.
Of course is open to interpretation by vidwans and the like, who fool around for more complications. It`s like listening to some artistes who claim they have invented a new raaga, and pick up some old one and add an extra note in some vakra format and use it sparingly. In this case it would mean some erudite soul would say ``Ah I`ll just touch the tivra Madhyam as I go up from Ga to Pa exactly once in 100 ascensions of the scale``. Personally I` d prefer to kick them. It changes the raaga completely.
For me , if I want Ni and Ma in Bhoop , I will listen to Shudh Kalyan and call it such. That way I can listen to Bhoop in the aroha and Kalyan in the avroha.-)
Sorry for the digression. One has to draw lines to control impurities in interpretation.
#85 Posted by arstoo on May 17, 2006 11:35:18 pm
Dear Salim
You said
[But, please separate your hatred of Muslims from your anger at this very decent man. May God bless you, my brother. ]
You got it totally wrong. If I was hater of muslims or kotha I would not have been talking to you.
The whole criticism is of the ideas and deeds of the man and underlying philosophy. You are talking in tongues which are dipped in blind faith and hereditary affection for a brute. I am giving you facts that are documented by his fellow muslims in clear, concise and crisp manner. You are calling those facts as my hatred for you as muslim and kothan, which is incorrect. What I am doing is just presenting the facts which were documented by the Muslims.
I don`t hate you rather I enjoy having this discussion
You said
[But, please separate your hatred of Muslims from your anger at this very decent man. May God bless you, my brother. ]
You got it totally wrong. If I was hater of muslims or kotha I would not have been talking to you.
The whole criticism is of the ideas and deeds of the man and underlying philosophy. You are talking in tongues which are dipped in blind faith and hereditary affection for a brute. I am giving you facts that are documented by his fellow muslims in clear, concise and crisp manner. You are calling those facts as my hatred for you as muslim and kothan, which is incorrect. What I am doing is just presenting the facts which were documented by the Muslims.
I don`t hate you rather I enjoy having this discussion
#84 Posted by krishna_abcd on May 17, 2006 10:08:55 pm
Re #82
arstoo,
It`s futile. On every other issue, Salim seems eminently reasonable and a pacifist, but when you bring up Mohammed, all bets are off. I guess this is his big weakness.
As it is, it would not have been such a bad thing. Regardless of how Muhammad actually was, if all Muslims thought like Salim, the world would have been a different place. But most Muslims actually read the Koran and try to follow Muhammad`s example, and are not capable, like Salim, to ignore the horrendous facts. They see and emulate everything.
I had several arguments with Salim where he turned hostile in the end. His attitude is, ``I`ll agree with anything you say, but please leave my Muhammad alone``. He`s intelligent, so he realizes that everything rests on Muhammad`s credibility. So that is the central thing he is not willing to discuss. Everything bad about Muhammad - people must have made it up. If you criticize Muhammad, then you must be hating Muslims (because if you didn`t, then he has to confront the questions).
I think our last argument ended with him saying that me looking only at Muhammad`s bad qualities is exactly the same thing as him looking only at Muhammad`s good qualities. When I explained that when you kill people, rape women, have sex with little children, then whether you paid your rent in time is irrelevent, he turned hostile.
Give it up. It`s called blind faith.
arstoo,
It`s futile. On every other issue, Salim seems eminently reasonable and a pacifist, but when you bring up Mohammed, all bets are off. I guess this is his big weakness.
As it is, it would not have been such a bad thing. Regardless of how Muhammad actually was, if all Muslims thought like Salim, the world would have been a different place. But most Muslims actually read the Koran and try to follow Muhammad`s example, and are not capable, like Salim, to ignore the horrendous facts. They see and emulate everything.
I had several arguments with Salim where he turned hostile in the end. His attitude is, ``I`ll agree with anything you say, but please leave my Muhammad alone``. He`s intelligent, so he realizes that everything rests on Muhammad`s credibility. So that is the central thing he is not willing to discuss. Everything bad about Muhammad - people must have made it up. If you criticize Muhammad, then you must be hating Muslims (because if you didn`t, then he has to confront the questions).
I think our last argument ended with him saying that me looking only at Muhammad`s bad qualities is exactly the same thing as him looking only at Muhammad`s good qualities. When I explained that when you kill people, rape women, have sex with little children, then whether you paid your rent in time is irrelevent, he turned hostile.
Give it up. It`s called blind faith.
#83 Posted by harimau on May 17, 2006 9:56:08 pm
Ref swarrier #79
[Harimau, neither Bhoopali or Desh-kar have a Nishadha in them. I`ve never heard a redition with anything other than Sa, Re , Ga, Pa, Dha , Sa.
Is there a Bhoopali recording with a Nishadha? I`d be interested to know what it sounds like.]
My words were [(Same scale of notes, no trace of Nishadh as in Bhoop).] The keyword is ``trace``.
From http://www.sawf.org/newedit/edit08052002/musicarts.asp (Rajan Parrikar`s website), here is something on Bhoopali:
{It should now be obvious that Bhoopali`s simple Aroha-avarohana masks its non-linearity. The perceptive mind will also see in Bhoopali the shadow of Raganga Kalyan. The nyAsa swaras and formulation of tonal contours derive from Kalyan minus the madhyam and nishAd, which is why some vidwAns refer to Bhoopali as ``Bhoop Kalyan`` or ``Ma-Ni-varjit-Kalyan.`` En passant, the P-G and the S-D arcs may occasionally create an AbhAsa of m and N, respectively.}
In fact, Maharajapuram Viswanatha Iyer is blamed for intoducing traces of Ni in Mohanam in the South.
[Harimau, neither Bhoopali or Desh-kar have a Nishadha in them. I`ve never heard a redition with anything other than Sa, Re , Ga, Pa, Dha , Sa.
Is there a Bhoopali recording with a Nishadha? I`d be interested to know what it sounds like.]
My words were [(Same scale of notes, no trace of Nishadh as in Bhoop).] The keyword is ``trace``.
From http://www.sawf.org/newedit/edit08052002/musicarts.asp (Rajan Parrikar`s website), here is something on Bhoopali:
{It should now be obvious that Bhoopali`s simple Aroha-avarohana masks its non-linearity. The perceptive mind will also see in Bhoopali the shadow of Raganga Kalyan. The nyAsa swaras and formulation of tonal contours derive from Kalyan minus the madhyam and nishAd, which is why some vidwAns refer to Bhoopali as ``Bhoop Kalyan`` or ``Ma-Ni-varjit-Kalyan.`` En passant, the P-G and the S-D arcs may occasionally create an AbhAsa of m and N, respectively.}
In fact, Maharajapuram Viswanatha Iyer is blamed for intoducing traces of Ni in Mohanam in the South.
#82 Posted by arstoo on May 17, 2006 7:02:43 pm
Ref#80
Dear Brother Salim,
I realised that I have been making a mistake. I considered you an intelligent and grown up person who looks at things and issues objectively with the sense of humor. But it turned out be otherwise.
Let is analyse your love for Kothan. Kothan is the name given to her son by Amina. Later on it was changed to a pagan name Muhhamad by his grand father. I don`t know whether there was a statue of Muhhammad in the temples of kaaba or not.
Kothan had a deprived childhood at the mercy of his relatives who considered him as a burden.
Kothan had a desire to be somthing in his life financially and otherwise. He was ready for any oppurtunity. He was flexible with his interpertation of his world view according to oppurtunity in front of him and was always ready for a shortcut. For example he used his epilepsy as revelations. His revelations suited hime financially, politically and sexually.
My dear Salim what will you call a person like Kothan, won`t you call him uncrupulous to bput it mildly.
Kothan killed innocent people. Raped and enslaved helpless girls and women. He killed people who he had already conquered in a war. He declared wars for his convenience.
Kothan came up with the brutal legacy of Jihaad. What Jihhad meant was 80% of the loot for individual and 20% for Kothan and free use of captured women for sex and as a slave by every body.
Salim how you can love a person like Kothan. Please tell me.
Dear Brother Salim,
I realised that I have been making a mistake. I considered you an intelligent and grown up person who looks at things and issues objectively with the sense of humor. But it turned out be otherwise.
Let is analyse your love for Kothan. Kothan is the name given to her son by Amina. Later on it was changed to a pagan name Muhhamad by his grand father. I don`t know whether there was a statue of Muhhammad in the temples of kaaba or not.
Kothan had a deprived childhood at the mercy of his relatives who considered him as a burden.
Kothan had a desire to be somthing in his life financially and otherwise. He was ready for any oppurtunity. He was flexible with his interpertation of his world view according to oppurtunity in front of him and was always ready for a shortcut. For example he used his epilepsy as revelations. His revelations suited hime financially, politically and sexually.
My dear Salim what will you call a person like Kothan, won`t you call him uncrupulous to bput it mildly.
Kothan killed innocent people. Raped and enslaved helpless girls and women. He killed people who he had already conquered in a war. He declared wars for his convenience.
Kothan came up with the brutal legacy of Jihaad. What Jihhad meant was 80% of the loot for individual and 20% for Kothan and free use of captured women for sex and as a slave by every body.
Salim how you can love a person like Kothan. Please tell me.
#81 Posted by muqaddam on May 17, 2006 2:20:31 pm
Anything written in positive light on the conditions of Muslims living there sets the asses of many Pakistanis like Zeena on fire. I do not know when this tabqa of the Pakistani population is goimg to learn to accept facts.
#80 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on May 17, 2006 10:48:28 am
arstoo #71 {``I will tell you the same thing which Krishna told Arjun in Bhgawad Geeta and that is
``Utho ( Stand up) Parth ( Name of Arjun) gaand sambhalo.``
I have seen some of your messages showing your love for that criminal mohaamad who infused Islam with this barbarism and lunacy. Stand up and criticise hime. Stand up and say that he is a pedophile. Stand up and say taht he was the worst racist, fascist of the history. If you don`t do that you can hang your head in shame and pray to god for help.
My brother I will even offer you my shoulder to cry on.``}+
Arstoo bhai,
Thank you for offering both the gaand and the shoulder - I am all tears with gratitude. :)
If you studied the life of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) in detail you would understand why many Muslims respect God, but love Mohammed (PBUH). Far from being a racist, fascist, barbarian, and lunatic (Aztaghfirullah), the Holy Prophet (PBUH) was egalitarian, liberal, merciful, and wise. He was patient and forgiving and suffered along with his followers - even more. Again, loving him is a matter of choice and you are free to reject him and consider him the lowest of the lowest. Many have tried before you. Please read Dante`s inferno where he placed Ali and him in the worst part of hell. Just remember, almost all of his enemies in real life, Abu Sufyan and his wife Hinda, Khalid bin Walid, Omar Faruq, and many others learned to love him while he was alive. I can understand the desire of many Christians, Jews, Hindus, and even some Muslims to insult the Holy Prophet (PBUH) and thus try to injure the feelings of the Muslims of their time. It works - yes we get hurt. But, please separate your hatred of Muslims from your anger at this very decent man. May God bless you, my brother.
``Utho ( Stand up) Parth ( Name of Arjun) gaand sambhalo.``
I have seen some of your messages showing your love for that criminal mohaamad who infused Islam with this barbarism and lunacy. Stand up and criticise hime. Stand up and say that he is a pedophile. Stand up and say taht he was the worst racist, fascist of the history. If you don`t do that you can hang your head in shame and pray to god for help.
My brother I will even offer you my shoulder to cry on.``}+
Arstoo bhai,
Thank you for offering both the gaand and the shoulder - I am all tears with gratitude. :)
If you studied the life of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) in detail you would understand why many Muslims respect God, but love Mohammed (PBUH). Far from being a racist, fascist, barbarian, and lunatic (Aztaghfirullah), the Holy Prophet (PBUH) was egalitarian, liberal, merciful, and wise. He was patient and forgiving and suffered along with his followers - even more. Again, loving him is a matter of choice and you are free to reject him and consider him the lowest of the lowest. Many have tried before you. Please read Dante`s inferno where he placed Ali and him in the worst part of hell. Just remember, almost all of his enemies in real life, Abu Sufyan and his wife Hinda, Khalid bin Walid, Omar Faruq, and many others learned to love him while he was alive. I can understand the desire of many Christians, Jews, Hindus, and even some Muslims to insult the Holy Prophet (PBUH) and thus try to injure the feelings of the Muslims of their time. It works - yes we get hurt. But, please separate your hatred of Muslims from your anger at this very decent man. May God bless you, my brother.
#79 Posted by swarrier on May 17, 2006 8:41:53 am
Re: # 78
Harimau, neither Bhoopali or Desh-kar have a Nishadha in them. I`ve never heard a redition with anything other than Sa, Re , Ga, Pa, Dha , Sa.
Is there a Bhoopali recording with a Nishadha? I`d be interested to know what it sounds like. (No film songs please).
Harimau, neither Bhoopali or Desh-kar have a Nishadha in them. I`ve never heard a redition with anything other than Sa, Re , Ga, Pa, Dha , Sa.
Is there a Bhoopali recording with a Nishadha? I`d be interested to know what it sounds like. (No film songs please).
#78 Posted by harimau on May 17, 2006 7:19:19 am
Ref jang #76
[..and they should play bhoop anyways and not hindolam.]
Bhoop? Bah, humbug! Mohanam perhaps! (Same scale of notes, no trace of Nishadh as in Bhoop).
[BTW the temple-takeover is not yet complete..here is the latest..muslims will have a 5% quota as temple priests...its going to be problem to accept teertha from a priest..hopefully they will sell small mineral-bottle type pani.]
Days of ``Hindu pani, Musalman pani`` once again in India! I can`t wait!
Actually, anything polluted by the touch of a Masanamuthu-type needs to be only washed in water. The question is: how does one wash ``teertha``? ;)
[..and they should play bhoop anyways and not hindolam.]
Bhoop? Bah, humbug! Mohanam perhaps! (Same scale of notes, no trace of Nishadh as in Bhoop).
[BTW the temple-takeover is not yet complete..here is the latest..muslims will have a 5% quota as temple priests...its going to be problem to accept teertha from a priest..hopefully they will sell small mineral-bottle type pani.]
Days of ``Hindu pani, Musalman pani`` once again in India! I can`t wait!
Actually, anything polluted by the touch of a Masanamuthu-type needs to be only washed in water. The question is: how does one wash ``teertha``? ;)
#77 Posted by swarrier on May 17, 2006 7:13:34 am
#57
Nasah
We know there are enough problems within Hinduism. And there are enough critiques aren`t there? Look at the cut and thrust between Harimau and soysauce or masanamuthu. We have our share of bigots too, just as all the Islamists on chowk parade their viewpoint.
We also needed the English to kickstart some of our reforms. It would probably have come from within but the presence of a catalyst is always welcome.
The principal differences would be that few Hindus will have a book to quote from and tell you that everything you need to know is contained therein. And if somebody does, there is some other philosophy equally tenable that says otherwise.
Hindus are even free to not believe in a god. Perhaps the reason why Indians on chowk do not criticise Hindusim more frequently is because it does not play a great part in the life of the average Hindu. It`s just there in the background to be followed when necessary and ignored otherwise.
Nasah
We know there are enough problems within Hinduism. And there are enough critiques aren`t there? Look at the cut and thrust between Harimau and soysauce or masanamuthu. We have our share of bigots too, just as all the Islamists on chowk parade their viewpoint.
We also needed the English to kickstart some of our reforms. It would probably have come from within but the presence of a catalyst is always welcome.
The principal differences would be that few Hindus will have a book to quote from and tell you that everything you need to know is contained therein. And if somebody does, there is some other philosophy equally tenable that says otherwise.
Hindus are even free to not believe in a god. Perhaps the reason why Indians on chowk do not criticise Hindusim more frequently is because it does not play a great part in the life of the average Hindu. It`s just there in the background to be followed when necessary and ignored otherwise.
#76 Posted by jang on May 17, 2006 6:12:40 am
#75.. that just sucks..and they should play bhoop anyways and not hindolam. BTW the temple-takeover is not yet complete..here is the latest..muslims will have a 5% quota as temple priests...its going to be problem to accept teertha from a priest..hopefully they will sell small mineral-bottle type pani.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4986616.stm
The new government in India`s Tamil Nadu state has decided to end the monopoly of Brahmins and high-caste Hindus in the state`s temples.
It has decided that priests in Hindu temples all over the state will be drawn from every caste.
Until now, the priesthood in Tamil Nadu had been the exclusive preserve of high-caste Hindus, especially Brahmins.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4986616.stm
The new government in India`s Tamil Nadu state has decided to end the monopoly of Brahmins and high-caste Hindus in the state`s temples.
It has decided that priests in Hindu temples all over the state will be drawn from every caste.
Until now, the priesthood in Tamil Nadu had been the exclusive preserve of high-caste Hindus, especially Brahmins.
#75 Posted by harimau on May 17, 2006 1:57:15 am
Ref jang #47
[#46 dont lie harimau, you hear hindolam being played on nadaswaram by a muslim guy outside a tample in beasantnagar.]
No need to lie. After 70 years of propaganda by the Dravidian parties, most temple lands have been illegally appropriated by the parties` henchmen with the result that the temples have very little income. The first to go was the nadaswaram players. You no longer have the bronze idols being taken out in procession during festival days (which the Hindu religion has approximately once a week) and so no need for nadaswaram players to lead the procession. The nadaswaram players you will find in Chennai are all busy playing at weddings.
In fact, the only times I have heard nadaswaram is either in specially-arranged concerts (few compared to vocal and other instrumental music) or just outside the dargah in Nagore! Yep, there was a troupe practising every morning on the first floor of a building right next to the dargah!
As to the Muslim guy playing nadaswaram, well, the temple musicians (nadaswaram players and of the Muslim persuasion) of the Srirangam Temple are on a concert tour of the United States! And unlike the North, Muslim musicians are a rarity in South India. I attribute it to the mathematically more complex rhythmic patterns used in Carnatic music which is beyond the capabilities of North Indian and Muslim minds!
In fact, just this past weekend, I had a discussion with the descendant of a famous nadaswaram player on the decline in the quality and quantity of nadaswaram players.
I did run into two youths who played the nadaswaram and tavil respectively at a temple 300 kms south of Chennai as the temple was being closed after midday.
The Kapalesswarar Temple and the Parthasarathy temple in Chennai might have resident nadaswaram players but neither of them is on my cycling route.
So, it is ``Medina the Peaceful Garden`` for me on my morning rides!
PS. I think I will take my mp3 player with me starting tomorrow for Hindolam (Malkauns for you Northies).
[#46 dont lie harimau, you hear hindolam being played on nadaswaram by a muslim guy outside a tample in beasantnagar.]
No need to lie. After 70 years of propaganda by the Dravidian parties, most temple lands have been illegally appropriated by the parties` henchmen with the result that the temples have very little income. The first to go was the nadaswaram players. You no longer have the bronze idols being taken out in procession during festival days (which the Hindu religion has approximately once a week) and so no need for nadaswaram players to lead the procession. The nadaswaram players you will find in Chennai are all busy playing at weddings.
In fact, the only times I have heard nadaswaram is either in specially-arranged concerts (few compared to vocal and other instrumental music) or just outside the dargah in Nagore! Yep, there was a troupe practising every morning on the first floor of a building right next to the dargah!
As to the Muslim guy playing nadaswaram, well, the temple musicians (nadaswaram players and of the Muslim persuasion) of the Srirangam Temple are on a concert tour of the United States! And unlike the North, Muslim musicians are a rarity in South India. I attribute it to the mathematically more complex rhythmic patterns used in Carnatic music which is beyond the capabilities of North Indian and Muslim minds!
In fact, just this past weekend, I had a discussion with the descendant of a famous nadaswaram player on the decline in the quality and quantity of nadaswaram players.
I did run into two youths who played the nadaswaram and tavil respectively at a temple 300 kms south of Chennai as the temple was being closed after midday.
The Kapalesswarar Temple and the Parthasarathy temple in Chennai might have resident nadaswaram players but neither of them is on my cycling route.
So, it is ``Medina the Peaceful Garden`` for me on my morning rides!
PS. I think I will take my mp3 player with me starting tomorrow for Hindolam (Malkauns for you Northies).
#74 Posted by uba on May 16, 2006 11:27:10 pm
Quote
#66
``, the exploits of ``Tiger`` Niazi against lady teachers in broad daylight are indeed illuminating!
After all if allauddin could kill thousands for a woman, what is half a million bong women for a sex crazed paki army?
From ghori to gaznavi to allauddin its all the same kill loot rape....kill-loot -rape.
Iske siva kuch ata nahi hai.
Why! one of my muslim acquaintances even proclaimed ``hamare logon mein to yeh jaij hai``..referring to ``sharing`` of women of the enemy! ``}
A news item from a pakistani daily
Wednesday, May 17, 2006
Pakistan most sex-starved
By Khalid Hasan
WASHINGTON: Google, the world’s most popular Internet search engine, has found in a survey that
``... mostly Muslim states seek access to sex-related websites and Pakistan tops the list``
Google found that of the top 10 countries - searching for sex-related sites -
``six were Muslim, with Pakistan on the top``
The other Muslim countries are
Egypt at number 2,
Iran at 4,
Morocco at 5,
Saudi Arabia at 7 and
Turkey at 8.
#66
``, the exploits of ``Tiger`` Niazi against lady teachers in broad daylight are indeed illuminating!
After all if allauddin could kill thousands for a woman, what is half a million bong women for a sex crazed paki army?
From ghori to gaznavi to allauddin its all the same kill loot rape....kill-loot -rape.
Iske siva kuch ata nahi hai.
Why! one of my muslim acquaintances even proclaimed ``hamare logon mein to yeh jaij hai``..referring to ``sharing`` of women of the enemy! ``}
A news item from a pakistani daily
Wednesday, May 17, 2006
Pakistan most sex-starved
By Khalid Hasan
WASHINGTON: Google, the world’s most popular Internet search engine, has found in a survey that
``... mostly Muslim states seek access to sex-related websites and Pakistan tops the list``
Google found that of the top 10 countries - searching for sex-related sites -
``six were Muslim, with Pakistan on the top``
The other Muslim countries are
Egypt at number 2,
Iran at 4,
Morocco at 5,
Saudi Arabia at 7 and
Turkey at 8.
#73 Posted by bjkumar on May 16, 2006 9:19:38 pm
#70 (Correction)
``...lice-infested beards!``
should have been
``...lice infested beards (except for NTSyed sahib`s)!``
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