Sushil Bhatnagar June 1, 2006
#1 Posted by sanjay on June 2, 2006 12:36:25 am
I think, so far, the following passage written by a Kashmiri about Vedas is the most noteworthy :-
Though the Vedas are considered as the Holy Scriptures of the Hindus, I am reluctant to call them as such. To my mind, they are the sacred books of India and form an integral part of the cultural heritage of people of the Indian descent irrespective of their faith.
There are four Vedas, the oldest being the RgVeda, which also happens to be the root of the Vedic religion leading to its latest form known as Hinduism. The Veda is considered eternal. It is not subject to revelation; all god or gods had to do was to promote the intuition of the pious and gifted men known as Rishi or seers who were able to see the eternal truth directly without the help of any medium including sense perception. They expressed this truth in a human language called Sanskrit.
This is the claim of the Hindu faithful, and one may be willing to admire it without acknowledging its divine origin or supernatural element. Since there is a repeated mention of the Eternal Law in the Rg. Veda, one comes to the conclusion that the Vedic seers were deeply interested in the natural phenomena, and thought of the universe as an organised whole. Not only the SAT or the systematic cosmos was governed by order and truth called RTA but man himself was an inlegral part of the universe which was likely to suffer chaos (ASAT) through the interference of the demoniac powers or antigods (ASURAS). Man had thus an obligation to make a contribution towards the maintenance of the world, and he could do so by performing sacrifices and offering gods SOMA drink. The purpose of sacrifices, Soma and many complex rituals was to secure the propitiation of the hidden forces of nature, which influenced the quality of human life through their effect and intensity. As humans and animals have shapes and attributes which give them power to act and be nice or nasty, these forces of nature which had the ability to peel and heel, sadden and gladden and elevate and devastate, must also possess certain forms and characteristics. So, they gave these natural forces particular shapes usually human and sometimes animalic such as elephant, bull and monkey. One should also applaud the vision of the Vedic man who knew that the cosmic order is hierarchical. So, they stratified these forces of nature, creating gods and goddesses of various ranks having different powers and prestige. The greatest of them was Dyasuh-Pitar, Heavenly Father or the sky. Then there were Indra, the god of Indu or rain and dew, Agni, the god of fire, Surya, the Sun, Usha the goddess of the dawn, and many more. So these hidden forces ascended the human mind with mystical attributes and powers.
One ought to remember that these forces are part of the universe which is mysterious and arouses fear in man`s heart. Thus, he seeks protection against this natural consternation through a set of rituals, supplications and sacrifices, which eventually emerge as a religion; it seeks to protect the human mind from fear of the cosmic vastness, mystery and uncertainty the same way as the ozone layer shields the earth from the lethal effects of the sun`s ultraviolet rays. Because of its survival value, religion comes to be associated with man`s instinct and almost all his actions become reflexive in relation to the next world and he usually defies reason to protect the faith, which is, in fact, a form of make-believe; he does not want to be shaken out of his daydreaming to face the reality of life which is harsh, hazardous and even horrendous, though capable of moulding into hilarity, happiness and even a halo, but it requires a lot of effort, which he is reluctant to put in. Why? It is because religion offers him the earth just for having faith in a certain guru, prophet or messiah. Why should he suffer pain for what he call get gratis?
Since the Veda is inspired by the mystical fear of the universe seeking peace of mind through appeasing the forces of nature including the supreme God, it represents man`s spontaneous desire, and not dictated by a super-being. to mount a search for the hidden truth through meditation and rituals. This is the reason that throughout the hymns of the Rg. Veda, one cannot trace a single stanza where a god tells man to supplicate him, bow, bend or prostrate before him, worship him. Whatever rituals or forms or worship man adopts, he does so of his own free will, without any divine coercion, whatever. The Veda, thus, represents man`s natural curiosity to find the Reality with a view to becoming a part of it. Of course, this situation changes with the emergence of the Orthodox Hinduism because Lord Krishna wants to be worshipped by his devotees but I am concerned here with Vedism though Hinduism still preserves some of its original traits.
Since the Vedic quest for reality is initiated by man of his own free will, it gives him the status of a lover and bestows on God the honour of being the beloved, seeking union with Him. And this has been the fundamental principle of mysticism since inception of civilisation. On the contrary, the approach of the Semitic religions, as already described, is entirely the opposite: it is God who threatens man with hell or coaxes him with the offer of paradise to seek Him and thus loses the status of a beloved which constitutes the core of mysticism. This is the reason that the Biblical and Koranic messages commence wilh a command such as ``say..,`` that is, God orders a man called ``prophet,`` in a vision or through an angel to say this or that to the people as the Will of God. Thus, their approach is revelatory because God comes to man so that he should love and obey Him; it disqualifies Him as the beloved, the object of search. Therefore, it is only Hinduism which rises as the source of mysticism whereby it is man who seeks God voluntarily.
The name of the gentleman is Anwar Shaikh and his website is here.
Though the Vedas are considered as the Holy Scriptures of the Hindus, I am reluctant to call them as such. To my mind, they are the sacred books of India and form an integral part of the cultural heritage of people of the Indian descent irrespective of their faith.
There are four Vedas, the oldest being the RgVeda, which also happens to be the root of the Vedic religion leading to its latest form known as Hinduism. The Veda is considered eternal. It is not subject to revelation; all god or gods had to do was to promote the intuition of the pious and gifted men known as Rishi or seers who were able to see the eternal truth directly without the help of any medium including sense perception. They expressed this truth in a human language called Sanskrit.
This is the claim of the Hindu faithful, and one may be willing to admire it without acknowledging its divine origin or supernatural element. Since there is a repeated mention of the Eternal Law in the Rg. Veda, one comes to the conclusion that the Vedic seers were deeply interested in the natural phenomena, and thought of the universe as an organised whole. Not only the SAT or the systematic cosmos was governed by order and truth called RTA but man himself was an inlegral part of the universe which was likely to suffer chaos (ASAT) through the interference of the demoniac powers or antigods (ASURAS). Man had thus an obligation to make a contribution towards the maintenance of the world, and he could do so by performing sacrifices and offering gods SOMA drink. The purpose of sacrifices, Soma and many complex rituals was to secure the propitiation of the hidden forces of nature, which influenced the quality of human life through their effect and intensity. As humans and animals have shapes and attributes which give them power to act and be nice or nasty, these forces of nature which had the ability to peel and heel, sadden and gladden and elevate and devastate, must also possess certain forms and characteristics. So, they gave these natural forces particular shapes usually human and sometimes animalic such as elephant, bull and monkey. One should also applaud the vision of the Vedic man who knew that the cosmic order is hierarchical. So, they stratified these forces of nature, creating gods and goddesses of various ranks having different powers and prestige. The greatest of them was Dyasuh-Pitar, Heavenly Father or the sky. Then there were Indra, the god of Indu or rain and dew, Agni, the god of fire, Surya, the Sun, Usha the goddess of the dawn, and many more. So these hidden forces ascended the human mind with mystical attributes and powers.
One ought to remember that these forces are part of the universe which is mysterious and arouses fear in man`s heart. Thus, he seeks protection against this natural consternation through a set of rituals, supplications and sacrifices, which eventually emerge as a religion; it seeks to protect the human mind from fear of the cosmic vastness, mystery and uncertainty the same way as the ozone layer shields the earth from the lethal effects of the sun`s ultraviolet rays. Because of its survival value, religion comes to be associated with man`s instinct and almost all his actions become reflexive in relation to the next world and he usually defies reason to protect the faith, which is, in fact, a form of make-believe; he does not want to be shaken out of his daydreaming to face the reality of life which is harsh, hazardous and even horrendous, though capable of moulding into hilarity, happiness and even a halo, but it requires a lot of effort, which he is reluctant to put in. Why? It is because religion offers him the earth just for having faith in a certain guru, prophet or messiah. Why should he suffer pain for what he call get gratis?
Since the Veda is inspired by the mystical fear of the universe seeking peace of mind through appeasing the forces of nature including the supreme God, it represents man`s spontaneous desire, and not dictated by a super-being. to mount a search for the hidden truth through meditation and rituals. This is the reason that throughout the hymns of the Rg. Veda, one cannot trace a single stanza where a god tells man to supplicate him, bow, bend or prostrate before him, worship him. Whatever rituals or forms or worship man adopts, he does so of his own free will, without any divine coercion, whatever. The Veda, thus, represents man`s natural curiosity to find the Reality with a view to becoming a part of it. Of course, this situation changes with the emergence of the Orthodox Hinduism because Lord Krishna wants to be worshipped by his devotees but I am concerned here with Vedism though Hinduism still preserves some of its original traits.
Since the Vedic quest for reality is initiated by man of his own free will, it gives him the status of a lover and bestows on God the honour of being the beloved, seeking union with Him. And this has been the fundamental principle of mysticism since inception of civilisation. On the contrary, the approach of the Semitic religions, as already described, is entirely the opposite: it is God who threatens man with hell or coaxes him with the offer of paradise to seek Him and thus loses the status of a beloved which constitutes the core of mysticism. This is the reason that the Biblical and Koranic messages commence wilh a command such as ``say..,`` that is, God orders a man called ``prophet,`` in a vision or through an angel to say this or that to the people as the Will of God. Thus, their approach is revelatory because God comes to man so that he should love and obey Him; it disqualifies Him as the beloved, the object of search. Therefore, it is only Hinduism which rises as the source of mysticism whereby it is man who seeks God voluntarily.
The name of the gentleman is Anwar Shaikh and his website is here.
#2 Posted by burpinder on June 2, 2006 1:35:17 am
Gawd, who the eff cares?... but I guess now with this reservation crapola going on, there are going to be tons of born-again Brahmins who go scampering to the ``wisdom of the ages`` to find salvation.
#3 Posted by subhashjoshi on June 2, 2006 7:58:43 am
Goes above my head. This essay could have been more readable and comprehensible for a blockhead like me if only it contained less of minor details.
From whatever little I know of Rigveda, it`s not a religious book, but a compilation of man`s observation of nature. I remember there is even a verse about ``the penis seeking a hairy slot`` (but I can`t quote chapter and verse). The last line of the ``song of creation`` casts a doubt about the power of god. Of course, with the evolution of society, the vedic thoughts evolved, displacing old gods with new.
One thing I do not understand - if all souls emanate from supreme soul, and the ultimate goal of soul (Atman) is a union with supreme soul (Parmatman), then why does the whole thing begin in the first place? Why go through the mortal coil of millions of births to go back? May be a bad question, but...
#1 by Sanjay - thanks for the link. Anwar Sheikh`s explanation sounds very interesting.
From whatever little I know of Rigveda, it`s not a religious book, but a compilation of man`s observation of nature. I remember there is even a verse about ``the penis seeking a hairy slot`` (but I can`t quote chapter and verse). The last line of the ``song of creation`` casts a doubt about the power of god. Of course, with the evolution of society, the vedic thoughts evolved, displacing old gods with new.
One thing I do not understand - if all souls emanate from supreme soul, and the ultimate goal of soul (Atman) is a union with supreme soul (Parmatman), then why does the whole thing begin in the first place? Why go through the mortal coil of millions of births to go back? May be a bad question, but...
#1 by Sanjay - thanks for the link. Anwar Sheikh`s explanation sounds very interesting.
#4 Posted by Urstruly on June 2, 2006 10:21:58 am
I think, man, as a created product comes pre-programmed with two ideas into his genes:
1. He, i.e., man can only be created by One God.
2. He, i.e., man, comes with a built in ability to differentiate between right and wrong
Point #1 is self evident; even if we assume that man was created by the man & woman like union of two gods, as some religions suggest, then those very religions assign a heirarichal standing of those gods as well. Meaning that one of those gods must be superior to other(s). Aristotle pondered that question and came up with the Philosophical concept of the Prime Mover. The Prime Mover is the concept that stipulates that if all things are created in heirarical order - a chair created from wood, wood obtained from tree, tree generated from seed, seed came from another tree, that tree generated from seed until we reach a point where a seed or tree was created out of nothing- so who created that first seed or tree that led to the creation of chair; it must be the _Prime Mover. THis very Prime Mover must be an entity that should not be bound by the constarints of time. As a matter of fact this Prime Mover must have created the time as a dimension as well. The Special Theory of Relativity proves that time is not a constant but a variable; and logically if an entity is variable then it must achive a zero value as well; meaning that the entity of time was created at a certain point as well.
Having said that we can draw a conclusion that a Prime Mover existed before `time` appeared on event horizon. The idea, that if One Prime Mover (monotheism) can exist before event horizon, then multiple prime movers (polotheism) may also exist before that event horizon, falls flat on its face because the every polytheistic ideology (religion) then portrays a certain god confined to his/her own realm only, for example a god of war is not good for stopping floods; and a god of wind is not good at extinguishing fires. This leads us to the conclusion that multiple prime movers cannot be omnipresent. Only one Prime Mover can be Omnipresent all the time. This undersatnding is ingrained in our genes by that One Prime Mover who has created us all and everything.
Point#2 is actually the underlying cause of the concept of multiple gods. If we observe the most primitive societies in the far reaches of the world where human beings have been living in a suspended state somewhere at the stage of being primates and humans, the anthropologists have discovered that they have `codes of personal and societal conducts`. Meaning that as compared to animals, human beings have it in their genes to establish right and wrong. So when early human beings were introduced to their Prime Mover, the very first time by the earliest ` seers or prophets` sent by that Prime Mover, man faced a dilema. The dilema hit him when he started judging that Prime Mover with his tool of right-wrong because he could not help it; the genetic coding would not allow him to think in any other way other than seeing everything through the sieve of right and wrong. It was hard for him to comprehend why the Prime Mover who creates me and sustains me through his bounty also destroys me with his wrath. So if life is good and destruction is bad, can God be good and bad at the same time? that was the dilema. At this juncture of his thought process man invented the concept of good god and bad god. The good god creates and sustains and bad god destroys. But since good benefits humans therefore, man created an idea that these two gods must be in constant struggle with each other to overpower other, and since good god gives us life and sustains us therefore we must side with good god. This concept had a domino effect and then man started creating a separate god for every good and every bad. But the anathema to this idea lies in itself. Lets assume that a god of harvest is good god. So if man worshiped harvest-god enough the harvest would be better; but what if he prayed the god of rain instead and that made his harvest better, in this case the harvest god becomes irrelavent. But what if harvest was better but lots of rain is threatening to destroy what was harvested. Which brings us back to our original dilema, how can a certain god be good and bad at the same time. Hence we can conclude that the invention of multiple gods has served us no purpose.
#5 Posted by Singularity on June 2, 2006 6:21:26 pm
Hi Author:
Good article with research about Hindu philosophy without getting into the absolutism that kills Abrahamic tribal beliefs.
Hindu Philosophy captures the human quest to understand the universe as explained by Anwar Shaikh in his web site. What is called as Hinduism is a compendium of many such thought processes initiated by so many Hindu seers and philosophers over many centuries.
Mullahs like Urstruly make TWO ASSUMED statements as facts and goes on to make BS Claims based on those assumptions. Human beings are NOT created by god. Humans are evolved(and evolving) beings and not direct creation. Right and wrong is not Absolute either. Right or wrong is not only time dependant but also space dependant and culture dependant. Typical of Arab tribal beliefs, everything is cast as ABSOLUTE by a mullah who tries to pass of the BS in the garb of Pseudo science.
Even Big bang is unproven and so is steady state, we can never imagine what singularity was like. You cant come up with one equation to define something as complex as that. Atleast not yet. But here is the conundrum, if no matter can exist at t=0, then how can there be what we call as god, since god also should have mass to create energy. So where did that mass come from?
Now amidst all this it is hilarious to say that GOD sent a prophet to ARABIA who wrote Koran full of BS and myths AND no scientific fact of any value. And that Arab tribal Mohamad rapes, plunders and kills , all in the name of the One god who created the whole Universe. And that one god has no other business to do except to teach the Humans living in one single inconspicuous planet rotating another ordinary run of the mill star in a very common galaxy. This amidst the other millions of galaxies and billions of stars. And that prophet goes ahead and imposes ARAB Myths, lies and beliefs and BS in the name of this one god.
God is human ego and ignorance. Period. Atleast the Non-Muslim humans are waking up to this simple fact. It will probably take another couple of centuries for mullahs and christian church mullahs to realize this simple fact. Most Jews, Hindus, Taoists, Buddists have no conflict with science.
Good article with research about Hindu philosophy without getting into the absolutism that kills Abrahamic tribal beliefs.
Hindu Philosophy captures the human quest to understand the universe as explained by Anwar Shaikh in his web site. What is called as Hinduism is a compendium of many such thought processes initiated by so many Hindu seers and philosophers over many centuries.
Mullahs like Urstruly make TWO ASSUMED statements as facts and goes on to make BS Claims based on those assumptions. Human beings are NOT created by god. Humans are evolved(and evolving) beings and not direct creation. Right and wrong is not Absolute either. Right or wrong is not only time dependant but also space dependant and culture dependant. Typical of Arab tribal beliefs, everything is cast as ABSOLUTE by a mullah who tries to pass of the BS in the garb of Pseudo science.
Even Big bang is unproven and so is steady state, we can never imagine what singularity was like. You cant come up with one equation to define something as complex as that. Atleast not yet. But here is the conundrum, if no matter can exist at t=0, then how can there be what we call as god, since god also should have mass to create energy. So where did that mass come from?
Now amidst all this it is hilarious to say that GOD sent a prophet to ARABIA who wrote Koran full of BS and myths AND no scientific fact of any value. And that Arab tribal Mohamad rapes, plunders and kills , all in the name of the One god who created the whole Universe. And that one god has no other business to do except to teach the Humans living in one single inconspicuous planet rotating another ordinary run of the mill star in a very common galaxy. This amidst the other millions of galaxies and billions of stars. And that prophet goes ahead and imposes ARAB Myths, lies and beliefs and BS in the name of this one god.
God is human ego and ignorance. Period. Atleast the Non-Muslim humans are waking up to this simple fact. It will probably take another couple of centuries for mullahs and christian church mullahs to realize this simple fact. Most Jews, Hindus, Taoists, Buddists have no conflict with science.
#6 Posted by tahmed32 on June 3, 2006 3:51:27 am
I followed Sanjay`s link to learn a bit more about hindu philosophy (about which other hindu posters below write approvingly) - and see this link to explain hindu philosophy starts with Islam is the most violent and intolerant faith that has ever been presented to mankind. . And the rest of the website is nothing but a ``hate islam`` diatribe.
In other words, hindu philosophy at least per this website is defined by attacks on what is islam. Enough said. :-)
In other words, hindu philosophy at least per this website is defined by attacks on what is islam. Enough said. :-)
#7 Posted by swarrier on June 3, 2006 5:21:00 am
Re: # 6
Come now Tahmed, Indic philosophies existed long before Islam. You can`t blame Hinduism for some website. I can assure you that the people who thought up the Veda`s and Upanishad`s had really no idea of the internet , or web sites , nor did they know anything about HTML. As the Brahman is my witness. -)
Dr. Bhatnagar
Would you agree that to sustain Hinduism as a religion, people tried to emphasise on the plurality of gods so that common folks would have something to worship, rather than the abstract Absolute that the Upanishads speak about. It is so reassuring to the common folk to have a god who reflects our traits. After all the Middle Eastern religions say that man was created in Gods image. This philosophically is against our religion, though some sub-sects may believe so.
Come now Tahmed, Indic philosophies existed long before Islam. You can`t blame Hinduism for some website. I can assure you that the people who thought up the Veda`s and Upanishad`s had really no idea of the internet , or web sites , nor did they know anything about HTML. As the Brahman is my witness. -)
Dr. Bhatnagar
Would you agree that to sustain Hinduism as a religion, people tried to emphasise on the plurality of gods so that common folks would have something to worship, rather than the abstract Absolute that the Upanishads speak about. It is so reassuring to the common folk to have a god who reflects our traits. After all the Middle Eastern religions say that man was created in Gods image. This philosophically is against our religion, though some sub-sects may believe so.
#8 Posted by nasah on June 3, 2006 7:16:51 am
how such an advanced way ahead of its time Hindu community that gave the world the Zero, the Decimal system and the concept of One and its Fraction -- AND such pearls of wisdom as Vedas and Upnishads --
-- and the world`s FIRST story book Panchtantra...
also came up with one of the cruelest, most oppressive, most degrading, meanest and the most demeaning -- woman torturing mahila debasing -- (go and see the movie WATER) --genetically ingrained, brain damaging social systems -- in the entire history of the historical world -- called
the Hindu Caste System -- that amazingly lasted two thousand five hundred years and still counting.......is simply mind boggling!!!
let me put some ants in the pants of my Hindu brethren on Chowk -- the most shameful thing is that this crude crass inhumane system is still being defended with esoteric arguments -- on these forums on Chowk in 2006 -- Vedas or no Vedas -- Upnishads or no Upnishads.....
-- and the world`s FIRST story book Panchtantra...
also came up with one of the cruelest, most oppressive, most degrading, meanest and the most demeaning -- woman torturing mahila debasing -- (go and see the movie WATER) --genetically ingrained, brain damaging social systems -- in the entire history of the historical world -- called
the Hindu Caste System -- that amazingly lasted two thousand five hundred years and still counting.......is simply mind boggling!!!
let me put some ants in the pants of my Hindu brethren on Chowk -- the most shameful thing is that this crude crass inhumane system is still being defended with esoteric arguments -- on these forums on Chowk in 2006 -- Vedas or no Vedas -- Upnishads or no Upnishads.....
#9 Posted by Rizwan on June 3, 2006 9:03:21 am
Another perspective of Hinduism, based on evidance and reality rather then modern twist and spin. I hope some people can come out of the fallacy that being ancient is anything particularly important or it give credence and strength to philosophical thought.
Hinduism
INDUISM is a class in itself in the comity of religions. To find in Hindu literature evidence of revelation as understood in traditional Divine religions is a difficult task. This is so, mainly because on the one hand the concept of revelation is wholly confined to the Vedic teachings, while on the other, God is mentioned to have manifested Himself in human form to instruct mankind.
Though in Christianity too, Jesusas is described in a manner somewhat similar to that of Krishnaas, the similarity however is superficial. In the personification of Jesus Christ, God the father remains in command of the universe, and a manifestation of His sonship somehow displays itself in the human image of Jesus. Again in the case of Christianity, there is a third person entitled the Holy Ghost who is neither Christ, nor God the father, but is an integral part of the Trinity in its own right.
Hinduism however, is not clear concerning the manifestation of Brahmâ in the person of Krishna. Did he rule the heavens and the earth from his heavenly seat even when Krishna remained on earth, or was it Krishna who as God personified governed the universe during his human phase? Or was Krishna merely an apparition or icon while God remained in command in the heavens like He ever was? Questions such as these remain unanswered.
Again as far as revelation is concerned, Christianity is completely at one with the belief of traditional religions concerning the nature of revelation from on high. In Hinduism, however, the mode of revelation is not shared by traditional religions. To fulfil the role of an exemplar, God manifests Himself in human form. He does not have to employ a messenger to fulfil this task.
The case of the ancient rishis who are said to be the recipients of the Vedas is different. ``Rishi`` is a Hindu term for a religious divine who severs all ties with the material world and submits completely to the will of God. Despite the fact that the Vedas are believed to be Divine teachings, there is no clear account of the rishis having received revelation as a well-defined verbal message. The question whether the inspiration of rishis can genuinely be entitled as revelation will perhaps forever remain moot. What we know from Hindu sources is based entirely on their belief. Although different ages are mentioned by different scholars, they are unanimous in their claim that the rishis are the most ancient of all human beings.
Hinduism
INDUISM is a class in itself in the comity of religions. To find in Hindu literature evidence of revelation as understood in traditional Divine religions is a difficult task. This is so, mainly because on the one hand the concept of revelation is wholly confined to the Vedic teachings, while on the other, God is mentioned to have manifested Himself in human form to instruct mankind.
Though in Christianity too, Jesusas is described in a manner somewhat similar to that of Krishnaas, the similarity however is superficial. In the personification of Jesus Christ, God the father remains in command of the universe, and a manifestation of His sonship somehow displays itself in the human image of Jesus. Again in the case of Christianity, there is a third person entitled the Holy Ghost who is neither Christ, nor God the father, but is an integral part of the Trinity in its own right.
Hinduism however, is not clear concerning the manifestation of Brahmâ in the person of Krishna. Did he rule the heavens and the earth from his heavenly seat even when Krishna remained on earth, or was it Krishna who as God personified governed the universe during his human phase? Or was Krishna merely an apparition or icon while God remained in command in the heavens like He ever was? Questions such as these remain unanswered.
Again as far as revelation is concerned, Christianity is completely at one with the belief of traditional religions concerning the nature of revelation from on high. In Hinduism, however, the mode of revelation is not shared by traditional religions. To fulfil the role of an exemplar, God manifests Himself in human form. He does not have to employ a messenger to fulfil this task.
The case of the ancient rishis who are said to be the recipients of the Vedas is different. ``Rishi`` is a Hindu term for a religious divine who severs all ties with the material world and submits completely to the will of God. Despite the fact that the Vedas are believed to be Divine teachings, there is no clear account of the rishis having received revelation as a well-defined verbal message. The question whether the inspiration of rishis can genuinely be entitled as revelation will perhaps forever remain moot. What we know from Hindu sources is based entirely on their belief. Although different ages are mentioned by different scholars, they are unanimous in their claim that the rishis are the most ancient of all human beings.
#10 Posted by Rizwan on June 3, 2006 9:06:36 am
(continued from previous)
This description of Hinduism is in all probability born out of human fancy. Man always interpolates, misconstrues or misappropriates Divine teachings after the prophets have come and gone. No wonder then that the messages of the Hindu prophets were also distorted by the future generations of those who followed. When we suggest that the Vedas must have been interpolated, we do not mean that all the Vedic teachings underwent a complete man-made transformation. This is never permitted to happen to Divine scriptures by God. There is always retained some of the original truth, untouched and unadulterated. It is in the light of this that a careful study of every religion at its source is always rewarding. A careful scrutiny of the source material of Hinduism reveals it to be no different from other Divinely revealed religions in fundamentals.
KRISHNA
With a slight twist in the kaleidoscope, the perception changes dramatically. Enough evidence can be presented from the Mahabharat and Bhagavad Gita that Krishnaas never claimed Godhead for himself, nor did he ever claim immortality. Krishnaas can easily be identified as just another prophet of God, no different from those who appeared before or after him throughout the recorded history of religion.
As portrayed in his authentic biographies, Krishnaas is known to have been born on earth, around 1458 BC, like any other human child, to Basudeba and his wife Deboki. They named him Kinai (Kinhai). The name ``Krishna`` was given to him later, meaning ``the enlightened one``. He is known to have led an ordinary child`s life with an exceptional flare of the supernatural (which is also related concerning many other prophets of God by their followers). He lived like humans, acted like humans and attended the call of nature like humans. During his childhood, he occasionally took childish licences, like stealing a kilo or two of butter, or at least that is what is claimed by the Hindu analysts. We believe however that it was no crime on his part, children who are kind of heart do similar things in their own right for the sake of their poorer playmates. Such a child in the circumstances described generates love rather than abhorrence. All this is but human, in no way different from the birth and lifestyle of other prophets of God. He grew up to a strong adulthood and acquired and displayed outstanding qualities of leadership. In the battlefield he led great armies to epoch-making victories. In ordinary life, he rose to the exalted position of a great spiritual exemplar and performed his role as a reformer, the like of which had seldom been seen in India. He admonished people to become righteous and to eschew evil. To him it is important to destroy evil-minded people who want to wipe out religion and to promote Godlessness.
continued ....
This description of Hinduism is in all probability born out of human fancy. Man always interpolates, misconstrues or misappropriates Divine teachings after the prophets have come and gone. No wonder then that the messages of the Hindu prophets were also distorted by the future generations of those who followed. When we suggest that the Vedas must have been interpolated, we do not mean that all the Vedic teachings underwent a complete man-made transformation. This is never permitted to happen to Divine scriptures by God. There is always retained some of the original truth, untouched and unadulterated. It is in the light of this that a careful study of every religion at its source is always rewarding. A careful scrutiny of the source material of Hinduism reveals it to be no different from other Divinely revealed religions in fundamentals.
KRISHNA
With a slight twist in the kaleidoscope, the perception changes dramatically. Enough evidence can be presented from the Mahabharat and Bhagavad Gita that Krishnaas never claimed Godhead for himself, nor did he ever claim immortality. Krishnaas can easily be identified as just another prophet of God, no different from those who appeared before or after him throughout the recorded history of religion.
As portrayed in his authentic biographies, Krishnaas is known to have been born on earth, around 1458 BC, like any other human child, to Basudeba and his wife Deboki. They named him Kinai (Kinhai). The name ``Krishna`` was given to him later, meaning ``the enlightened one``. He is known to have led an ordinary child`s life with an exceptional flare of the supernatural (which is also related concerning many other prophets of God by their followers). He lived like humans, acted like humans and attended the call of nature like humans. During his childhood, he occasionally took childish licences, like stealing a kilo or two of butter, or at least that is what is claimed by the Hindu analysts. We believe however that it was no crime on his part, children who are kind of heart do similar things in their own right for the sake of their poorer playmates. Such a child in the circumstances described generates love rather than abhorrence. All this is but human, in no way different from the birth and lifestyle of other prophets of God. He grew up to a strong adulthood and acquired and displayed outstanding qualities of leadership. In the battlefield he led great armies to epoch-making victories. In ordinary life, he rose to the exalted position of a great spiritual exemplar and performed his role as a reformer, the like of which had seldom been seen in India. He admonished people to become righteous and to eschew evil. To him it is important to destroy evil-minded people who want to wipe out religion and to promote Godlessness.
continued ....
#11 Posted by swarrier on June 3, 2006 9:08:28 am
Re: # 8
Nasah
Not very many people defend the caste system today. Secondly people have been trying to remove that blight for at least 150 years and it will surely disappear. The caste system was not stratified in its inital stages. It did become so and stratified Hindu thought itself for a long time. Everybody goes through some amount of darkness.
Hinduism also allowed matrilineal women empowering forms of thought. You cannot make a movie on that, I suppose. Nothing to write home about or stoke up controversy.
I must admit I have not seen Water but I have read the book that Deepa Mehta took her ideas from. Have you read ``Sei Samay``. The English translation is available from Penguin India. It can give you far more fodder if you want.
Actually I am a little prejudiced. I thought Fire was a stupid movie and 1947 Earth was not as good as Bapsi Sidhwa`s novel.
Now of course if all other religions were perfect too..... Who can cast the first stone? -)
What do you have to say about the Absolute ?-)
Nasah
Not very many people defend the caste system today. Secondly people have been trying to remove that blight for at least 150 years and it will surely disappear. The caste system was not stratified in its inital stages. It did become so and stratified Hindu thought itself for a long time. Everybody goes through some amount of darkness.
Hinduism also allowed matrilineal women empowering forms of thought. You cannot make a movie on that, I suppose. Nothing to write home about or stoke up controversy.
I must admit I have not seen Water but I have read the book that Deepa Mehta took her ideas from. Have you read ``Sei Samay``. The English translation is available from Penguin India. It can give you far more fodder if you want.
Actually I am a little prejudiced. I thought Fire was a stupid movie and 1947 Earth was not as good as Bapsi Sidhwa`s novel.
Now of course if all other religions were perfect too..... Who can cast the first stone? -)
What do you have to say about the Absolute ?-)
#12 Posted by Rizwan on June 3, 2006 9:13:59 am
KIRSHNA
As far as his physical description goes, we do find some oddities. The image of Lord Krishna as portrayed by Hindu artists depicts him as having four arms instead of two and is also shown bearing wings. He is often portrayed standing with a flute pressed against his lips. Again, some comely maidens rather colourfully dressed are shown to throng around him. These are gopis. Gopi is a term applied to such womenfolk who tend the cows. It is a term similar to that of a shepherdess. It should be remembered here that the title of Krishna himself was that of Gao`pal which means ``the tender of cows``. This, when read together with the Biblical accounts of Israelite prophets as shepherds tending the sheep of the house of Israel, makes the similarity between the two abundantly clear. As India was a country of cows instead of that of sheep, the common people are referred to as cows. Hence for Krishna to be entitled a tender of cows, is quite understandable. Likewise, reference to his disciples as gopis presents no mystery either.
WINGS OF KIRSHNA Or God gifted extra faculties
Other episodes woven around the image of Krishna can also be read as parables and allegories rather than matter-of-fact statements. As regards the image of Krishna possessing four arms and wings, it can be symbolically interpreted to mean that highly ranked servants of God are gifted with extra faculties. The Holy Quran too, mentions wings in relation to the Holy Prophetsa of Islam. He is enjoined by God to lower his wing of mercy over the believers. Similarly, when angels are mentioned as bearing different numbers of wings, it is their attributes which are referred to, and not physical wings.
But it often happens that religious allegories and parables are taken too literally by the followers of religions and thus their underlying significance is altogether missed. The image of Lord Krishna and what is shown to be around him, is no exception.
MURLI DHAR: Flute or Revelation
Krishna is also called Murli Dhar which means a flute player. The flute here, is evidently a symbol of revelation because the tune that the flute emits is not emitted by the flute itself. It only transmits that which is being breathed into it. Hence, it was Lord Krishna himself who has been depicted as a flute played by God. Whatever tune God played into him he most faithfully transmitted to the world. Thus the reality of Krishna can be seen as no different from that of any other messenger of God who, as a faithful custodian of Divine messages, passes them on to the world unchanged. The flute thus becomes a most expressive symbol of the integrity of prophets assuring the world that they say nothing from themselves, other than what has been revealed to them from on high.
continues ....
As far as his physical description goes, we do find some oddities. The image of Lord Krishna as portrayed by Hindu artists depicts him as having four arms instead of two and is also shown bearing wings. He is often portrayed standing with a flute pressed against his lips. Again, some comely maidens rather colourfully dressed are shown to throng around him. These are gopis. Gopi is a term applied to such womenfolk who tend the cows. It is a term similar to that of a shepherdess. It should be remembered here that the title of Krishna himself was that of Gao`pal which means ``the tender of cows``. This, when read together with the Biblical accounts of Israelite prophets as shepherds tending the sheep of the house of Israel, makes the similarity between the two abundantly clear. As India was a country of cows instead of that of sheep, the common people are referred to as cows. Hence for Krishna to be entitled a tender of cows, is quite understandable. Likewise, reference to his disciples as gopis presents no mystery either.
WINGS OF KIRSHNA Or God gifted extra faculties
Other episodes woven around the image of Krishna can also be read as parables and allegories rather than matter-of-fact statements. As regards the image of Krishna possessing four arms and wings, it can be symbolically interpreted to mean that highly ranked servants of God are gifted with extra faculties. The Holy Quran too, mentions wings in relation to the Holy Prophetsa of Islam. He is enjoined by God to lower his wing of mercy over the believers. Similarly, when angels are mentioned as bearing different numbers of wings, it is their attributes which are referred to, and not physical wings.
But it often happens that religious allegories and parables are taken too literally by the followers of religions and thus their underlying significance is altogether missed. The image of Lord Krishna and what is shown to be around him, is no exception.
MURLI DHAR: Flute or Revelation
Krishna is also called Murli Dhar which means a flute player. The flute here, is evidently a symbol of revelation because the tune that the flute emits is not emitted by the flute itself. It only transmits that which is being breathed into it. Hence, it was Lord Krishna himself who has been depicted as a flute played by God. Whatever tune God played into him he most faithfully transmitted to the world. Thus the reality of Krishna can be seen as no different from that of any other messenger of God who, as a faithful custodian of Divine messages, passes them on to the world unchanged. The flute thus becomes a most expressive symbol of the integrity of prophets assuring the world that they say nothing from themselves, other than what has been revealed to them from on high.
continues ....
#13 Posted by Rizwan on June 3, 2006 9:15:55 am
REINCARNATION
Another fundamental feature of Hinduism, which is shared only by a few other religions, the most well-known among them being Buddhism. We refer to the doctrine of reincarnation. This doctrine is entwined with two other Hindu beliefs relating to the eternity of the soul and that of the matter on the one hand, and the eternity of the Supreme God and other lesser gods on the other. According to this philosophy, life on earth is not generated as a completely new creation. Every living thing that exists, though not eternal in itself, is composed of eternal constituents. The mother earth to them is only a mixing laboratory where soul and parts of matter are moulded together to give birth to a myriad of living forms. Thus they believe in the creative faculties of God only as those of an apothecary or a pharmacist. He does not possess the power of a Creator who can create something out of nothing.
Their vision of the universe envisages three levels of existence. The first and the highest is occupied by Brahmâ the chief god, along with many other lesser ones. They perform various functions in the universe for which they are suitably equipped. Some are responsible for maintaining the raising of clouds or the creating of thunderbolts. Some others are responsible for the administration, maintenance and command of natural phenomena. They enjoy a measure of comparative freedom within their own respective domains and seldom come to clash with each other. But when they do, woe to the universe. Storms are raised in heaven and furies are let loose upon the earth. It always pays to be on the right side of these gods or goddesses, otherwise their displeasure could cost the mortals most dearly. There are gods and goddesses of wealth, there are gods and godesses of fertility, there are gods and goddesses of health, longevity and what not. The mythical gods who occupy this level enjoy eternity.
The second, or the middle order of existence comprises soul and matter. It is they who, when combined together, make the lowest order of existence which relates to life on earth. According to this Hindu philosophy, it is Brahmâ, the supreme among gods, who alone possesses the power to bind souls to matter for the creation of life on Earth.
How and when this exercise began and to what purpose, is discussed at length in the Hindu philosophical literature with reference to the Vedic teachings. They believe that the beginning of life on earth did not take place in the manner as prescribed by the modern scientists. It did not originate with the appearance of the most rudimentary organisms and bio-units, in the primordial soup of the oceans or upon the surface of rocks a billion years ago. Thus writes Professor J. Verman, in his book The Vedas:
`... those scholars whose minds have been fed with the spurious Darwinian theory of evolution, find it difficult to understand this secret of revelation. However, we have overwhelming evidences to show that man`s earlier stage was a better one, and there is no ground to believe that the pre-historic men were necessarily primitive. The Vedic rishis were not simple minded people. They were poets, visionaries, and spiritualists, all the three in one. Their students who too were rishis by their own rights, were capable of understanding the real import of the mantras the moment they heard them... we are also told that there was a gradual deterioration of the psycho mental powers of the people. The generation of the seers also started disappearing.`1
Thus according to his understanding of the Divine scheme of things, the earth is created eternally, again and again and yet again, so also is the life on earth. At the birth of every new earth, a new world is born. In the beginning of the creation of the world, Brahmâ reveals the Vedas, the constitution of the universe, to the rishis, on the basis of which they prepare laws to govern the actions of other men on earth. So life began with the human beings rather than with other forms of life preceding them.
Another passage from the same book further elaborates the role of the four rishis sitting on the roof of the world and what they were to bequeath to the future generations of man:
`... four seers, viz. Agni, Vaayu, Soorya and Angiraa, who were really men of great intellectual excellence and spiritual eminence, being moved by the soothing and enchanting scenes of the creation, while looking around from the roof of the world, from the holy region of the celebrated Maanasarovara lake in Trivishtapa (modern Tibet), the land of the gods, across the Himalayas, the prime source of the great rivers like Ganga, Sindhu, Shatadru and Brahmaputra, surrounded by the majestic snow-capped peaks and the fascinating natural phenomena, their hearts filled with ecstasy and rapture, their senses sublimated, their souls elevated and exalted, their minds filled with quest for knowledge, in a poised receptive state of awareness, went deep into meditation and exerted themselves. Then they saw into the spheres of reality, different from the physical universe and heard the divine eternal, speech-potent sound from within, and had simultaneously, the vision of the truth...`2
CONTINUES
Another fundamental feature of Hinduism, which is shared only by a few other religions, the most well-known among them being Buddhism. We refer to the doctrine of reincarnation. This doctrine is entwined with two other Hindu beliefs relating to the eternity of the soul and that of the matter on the one hand, and the eternity of the Supreme God and other lesser gods on the other. According to this philosophy, life on earth is not generated as a completely new creation. Every living thing that exists, though not eternal in itself, is composed of eternal constituents. The mother earth to them is only a mixing laboratory where soul and parts of matter are moulded together to give birth to a myriad of living forms. Thus they believe in the creative faculties of God only as those of an apothecary or a pharmacist. He does not possess the power of a Creator who can create something out of nothing.
Their vision of the universe envisages three levels of existence. The first and the highest is occupied by Brahmâ the chief god, along with many other lesser ones. They perform various functions in the universe for which they are suitably equipped. Some are responsible for maintaining the raising of clouds or the creating of thunderbolts. Some others are responsible for the administration, maintenance and command of natural phenomena. They enjoy a measure of comparative freedom within their own respective domains and seldom come to clash with each other. But when they do, woe to the universe. Storms are raised in heaven and furies are let loose upon the earth. It always pays to be on the right side of these gods or goddesses, otherwise their displeasure could cost the mortals most dearly. There are gods and goddesses of wealth, there are gods and godesses of fertility, there are gods and goddesses of health, longevity and what not. The mythical gods who occupy this level enjoy eternity.
The second, or the middle order of existence comprises soul and matter. It is they who, when combined together, make the lowest order of existence which relates to life on earth. According to this Hindu philosophy, it is Brahmâ, the supreme among gods, who alone possesses the power to bind souls to matter for the creation of life on Earth.
How and when this exercise began and to what purpose, is discussed at length in the Hindu philosophical literature with reference to the Vedic teachings. They believe that the beginning of life on earth did not take place in the manner as prescribed by the modern scientists. It did not originate with the appearance of the most rudimentary organisms and bio-units, in the primordial soup of the oceans or upon the surface of rocks a billion years ago. Thus writes Professor J. Verman, in his book The Vedas:
`... those scholars whose minds have been fed with the spurious Darwinian theory of evolution, find it difficult to understand this secret of revelation. However, we have overwhelming evidences to show that man`s earlier stage was a better one, and there is no ground to believe that the pre-historic men were necessarily primitive. The Vedic rishis were not simple minded people. They were poets, visionaries, and spiritualists, all the three in one. Their students who too were rishis by their own rights, were capable of understanding the real import of the mantras the moment they heard them... we are also told that there was a gradual deterioration of the psycho mental powers of the people. The generation of the seers also started disappearing.`1
Thus according to his understanding of the Divine scheme of things, the earth is created eternally, again and again and yet again, so also is the life on earth. At the birth of every new earth, a new world is born. In the beginning of the creation of the world, Brahmâ reveals the Vedas, the constitution of the universe, to the rishis, on the basis of which they prepare laws to govern the actions of other men on earth. So life began with the human beings rather than with other forms of life preceding them.
Another passage from the same book further elaborates the role of the four rishis sitting on the roof of the world and what they were to bequeath to the future generations of man:
`... four seers, viz. Agni, Vaayu, Soorya and Angiraa, who were really men of great intellectual excellence and spiritual eminence, being moved by the soothing and enchanting scenes of the creation, while looking around from the roof of the world, from the holy region of the celebrated Maanasarovara lake in Trivishtapa (modern Tibet), the land of the gods, across the Himalayas, the prime source of the great rivers like Ganga, Sindhu, Shatadru and Brahmaputra, surrounded by the majestic snow-capped peaks and the fascinating natural phenomena, their hearts filled with ecstasy and rapture, their senses sublimated, their souls elevated and exalted, their minds filled with quest for knowledge, in a poised receptive state of awareness, went deep into meditation and exerted themselves. Then they saw into the spheres of reality, different from the physical universe and heard the divine eternal, speech-potent sound from within, and had simultaneously, the vision of the truth...`2
CONTINUES
#14 Posted by Rizwan on June 3, 2006 9:17:48 am
Thus, the Vedic teachings as understood by the Hindu pundits, would have us believe that life did not evolve, but devolved. Human generations which were to be born in a distant future from the time of the great four pioneer rishis were destined to deteriorate in all their faculties in comparison to the earliest men. This declining graph in human faculties also covers their moral behaviour. In the Hindu philosophy of Karma and reincarnation, it certainly augers ill for the future of the human race. According to Professor Verman:
`Destroying future life means, preparing to be born among species of living beings inferior to human beings. This is the fruit of action, this is the punishment for bad actions. The punishment comes in the form of deprivation of the various human faculties and organs of sense and actions. This is the doctrine of karma, and this is the system how the divine jurisprudence functions; this is called the rule of law in nature.`3
We believe that by attributing this doctrine to the Vedic teachings, the Hindus have done no justice to the honour of the Vedas. If such statements are to be taken seriously, the story of the origin of life will have to be rewritten altogether. In the new vision of the origin of species, Karma would certainly play the most pivotal role. The struggle for existence, survival of the fittest and the genetic mutations which the evolutionists so fervently talk about, would be rejected outright as mere figments of science fiction without an iota of substantial evidence to support it. The only key that would remain to unlock the riddle of life would be Karma.
Following this cue we can safely infer that life began its journey with the creation of holy men of the highest order, but as future generations were born, they began to deteriorate mentally, physically and spiritually. It did not take them very long to fill the earth with sin. With sin, comes Divine punishment and they rapidly began to lose their human status. They must have been deeply dismayed and shocked to watch the transformation of humans into animals of the lower order, but they had only to blame their own sins. The law of Karma must operate and the sins must take their toll. Hence it should not have been an uncommon experience with them to witness the birth of numerous new animal species instead of normal human babies during the course of reproduction.
But perhaps this is not how the Hindu religious scholars envisage the origin of species and how Karma operates. In the absence of a clear-cut statement on this point, one can only attribute to them some possible interpretations within the framework of their overall belief. Perhaps they envision the unfolding of the mysteries of life on earth in a different pattern. As man began to deteriorate during his journey away from the time of the four rishis, his reproductive faculties began to dwindle and an epidemic of sterility broke out. Rapidly the number of humans began to reduce and surprisingly a myriad of various animal species began to spring forth from the surface of earth.
The earth split open here and there, as the elephants and the lions erupted. So also appeared the cats, the dogs, the hyenas and the wolves. From water emerged the fish in all shapes and colours, in multiple measure and sizes while the turtles did not lag far behind. Suddenly the insects invaded the animal kingdom, like locusts appearing from nowhere. Underneath such visible forms of life, the invisible kingdom of bacteria and viruses must have proliferated far more rapidly. But alas, despite all the attempts and warnings of the four rishis, man refused to submit and continued to rebel against the Vedic teachings. As a natural consequence of their sin, reincarnation of humans into lower forms of animal species must have run amok as if with a spirit of vengeance.
Finding no more space on the flat surface of the earth or in the depth of oceans, man began to be born within the human gut as well. What of the roundworms, the flatworms, the tapeworms and the threadworms—who would not even take pity on infants—there were an untold number of other viral or bacterial guises in which the erstwhile humans must have invaded the human body in the blood stream, in the capillaries, in the cellular tissue of flesh and the vital organs. The lymph would not be spared, or the bone marrow for that matter. What an ingenious plan to have man punished by his own hands. Yet, he would not see.
An extremely interesting scheme of things no doubt, in support of which Professor Verman claims to possess `overwhelming evidence`! The only little snag we find in this scheme is the fact that humans continue to become more sinful with the passage of time, yet they are not diminishing in number. On the contrary, their population is exploding.
Continued ....
`Destroying future life means, preparing to be born among species of living beings inferior to human beings. This is the fruit of action, this is the punishment for bad actions. The punishment comes in the form of deprivation of the various human faculties and organs of sense and actions. This is the doctrine of karma, and this is the system how the divine jurisprudence functions; this is called the rule of law in nature.`3
We believe that by attributing this doctrine to the Vedic teachings, the Hindus have done no justice to the honour of the Vedas. If such statements are to be taken seriously, the story of the origin of life will have to be rewritten altogether. In the new vision of the origin of species, Karma would certainly play the most pivotal role. The struggle for existence, survival of the fittest and the genetic mutations which the evolutionists so fervently talk about, would be rejected outright as mere figments of science fiction without an iota of substantial evidence to support it. The only key that would remain to unlock the riddle of life would be Karma.
Following this cue we can safely infer that life began its journey with the creation of holy men of the highest order, but as future generations were born, they began to deteriorate mentally, physically and spiritually. It did not take them very long to fill the earth with sin. With sin, comes Divine punishment and they rapidly began to lose their human status. They must have been deeply dismayed and shocked to watch the transformation of humans into animals of the lower order, but they had only to blame their own sins. The law of Karma must operate and the sins must take their toll. Hence it should not have been an uncommon experience with them to witness the birth of numerous new animal species instead of normal human babies during the course of reproduction.
But perhaps this is not how the Hindu religious scholars envisage the origin of species and how Karma operates. In the absence of a clear-cut statement on this point, one can only attribute to them some possible interpretations within the framework of their overall belief. Perhaps they envision the unfolding of the mysteries of life on earth in a different pattern. As man began to deteriorate during his journey away from the time of the four rishis, his reproductive faculties began to dwindle and an epidemic of sterility broke out. Rapidly the number of humans began to reduce and surprisingly a myriad of various animal species began to spring forth from the surface of earth.
The earth split open here and there, as the elephants and the lions erupted. So also appeared the cats, the dogs, the hyenas and the wolves. From water emerged the fish in all shapes and colours, in multiple measure and sizes while the turtles did not lag far behind. Suddenly the insects invaded the animal kingdom, like locusts appearing from nowhere. Underneath such visible forms of life, the invisible kingdom of bacteria and viruses must have proliferated far more rapidly. But alas, despite all the attempts and warnings of the four rishis, man refused to submit and continued to rebel against the Vedic teachings. As a natural consequence of their sin, reincarnation of humans into lower forms of animal species must have run amok as if with a spirit of vengeance.
Finding no more space on the flat surface of the earth or in the depth of oceans, man began to be born within the human gut as well. What of the roundworms, the flatworms, the tapeworms and the threadworms—who would not even take pity on infants—there were an untold number of other viral or bacterial guises in which the erstwhile humans must have invaded the human body in the blood stream, in the capillaries, in the cellular tissue of flesh and the vital organs. The lymph would not be spared, or the bone marrow for that matter. What an ingenious plan to have man punished by his own hands. Yet, he would not see.
An extremely interesting scheme of things no doubt, in support of which Professor Verman claims to possess `overwhelming evidence`! The only little snag we find in this scheme is the fact that humans continue to become more sinful with the passage of time, yet they are not diminishing in number. On the contrary, their population is exploding.
Continued ....
#15 Posted by Rizwan on June 3, 2006 9:20:32 am
This takes us back to the ancient time when life just began with the creation of four rishis and a myriad of common men. If man was at his best in spiritual and social conduct at the time, then there was no question of his transmigration into the lower species after that generation had died. The scheme of Karma guarantees that as long as this state of piety was maintained by man, no animal species could have been created. They could only be created as a result of punishment to a sinful generation of humans.
ROFESSOR VERMAN seems to have an answer to this dilemma. Human generations, as they moved away from the pious generation of the rishis, began to disintegrate in their character. Evidently therefore, the moment man became sinful, the gates for the creation of other animal species were flung wide open. From then on, there was no dearth of sinful human souls to be condemned to the rank of subhuman species during their reincarnation.
But such a scheme could only work if the total population of humans at that time were a billion or more times greater than their number today. The total number of animals belonging to all the species of life runs into trillions upon trillions upon trillions. Hence, it can be safely inferred that all these animals from bacteria upwards must have been human once. That being so, the human population, at the time of the great holy rishis must have been astronomical, defying all calculations. In such a case, this earth had to be a billion times more massive than it is today to accommodate the entire human populace of God-fearing ancient followers of Vedic Dharma.
Incidentally, scientists also inform us that the land of Tibet, where the four great rishis are related to be sitting at the beginning of time, was not yet created. It came into being much later—a billion years ago, as a result of continental drift and the subsequent collision between their plates. This clash of claims, between the geologists and the Vedic authorities, casts some shadow of doubt on the scenario of the four rishis, serenely watching the world go by from their lofty post on the Tibetan high planes. But of course the Hindu scholars, like Professor Verman, have a right to dismiss this geological yarn to be as hollow and devoid of sense as the theory of evolution. This too, should be chucked into the rubbish bin of scientific hallucinations into which the theory of evolution had been earlier dumped.
Turning again to the issue of the human populace, which sprang from the holy loins of the great rishis, it must have swelled to enormous dimensions because it was they who were to be the great-forefathers of all the animal species to follow. It would be their sinful souls who would be demoted to the rank and file of the lower animal kingdom. The size of the human population at that time had to comprise the total number of animal species which were to be born after. One is indeed confounded to visualize such a colossal number of humans squirming, wiggling-waggling like mountains of worms on the surface of this tiny planet Earth. All that could be surveyed from any rooftop anywhere, call it Tibet or the Himalayas, would be humans, humans everywhere, and not a morsel to eat.
continued ....
ROFESSOR VERMAN seems to have an answer to this dilemma. Human generations, as they moved away from the pious generation of the rishis, began to disintegrate in their character. Evidently therefore, the moment man became sinful, the gates for the creation of other animal species were flung wide open. From then on, there was no dearth of sinful human souls to be condemned to the rank of subhuman species during their reincarnation.
But such a scheme could only work if the total population of humans at that time were a billion or more times greater than their number today. The total number of animals belonging to all the species of life runs into trillions upon trillions upon trillions. Hence, it can be safely inferred that all these animals from bacteria upwards must have been human once. That being so, the human population, at the time of the great holy rishis must have been astronomical, defying all calculations. In such a case, this earth had to be a billion times more massive than it is today to accommodate the entire human populace of God-fearing ancient followers of Vedic Dharma.
Incidentally, scientists also inform us that the land of Tibet, where the four great rishis are related to be sitting at the beginning of time, was not yet created. It came into being much later—a billion years ago, as a result of continental drift and the subsequent collision between their plates. This clash of claims, between the geologists and the Vedic authorities, casts some shadow of doubt on the scenario of the four rishis, serenely watching the world go by from their lofty post on the Tibetan high planes. But of course the Hindu scholars, like Professor Verman, have a right to dismiss this geological yarn to be as hollow and devoid of sense as the theory of evolution. This too, should be chucked into the rubbish bin of scientific hallucinations into which the theory of evolution had been earlier dumped.
Turning again to the issue of the human populace, which sprang from the holy loins of the great rishis, it must have swelled to enormous dimensions because it was they who were to be the great-forefathers of all the animal species to follow. It would be their sinful souls who would be demoted to the rank and file of the lower animal kingdom. The size of the human population at that time had to comprise the total number of animal species which were to be born after. One is indeed confounded to visualize such a colossal number of humans squirming, wiggling-waggling like mountains of worms on the surface of this tiny planet Earth. All that could be surveyed from any rooftop anywhere, call it Tibet or the Himalayas, would be humans, humans everywhere, and not a morsel to eat.
continued ....
#16 Posted by Rizwan on June 3, 2006 9:21:28 am
KARMA
Re-examining the issue of Karma, let us now return to a purely academic discussion. The fate of every generation of life hinges entirely upon the Karma of its previous generation. The soul in itself is a neutral entity; so also is the matter to which it is bonded. As such the real question which Hindu sages try to resolve, relates to the wisdom behind the creative policy of God. If He is a just God, they argue, why should He display partiality to some over others? It is to answer this apparently unanswerable question, that they present the philosophy of the eternal unending circle of deeds and corresponding rewards or punishments. For the transmigration of souls it is this priniciple which works as an ongoing circle of cause and effect, crime and punishment, goodness and reward. As against this view, the image of God perceived by other major religions of the world is that of an All-Powerful Supreme Being, who can create at His own Will whatever He pleases. As such, He is the Supreme proprietor of all creation, enjoying absolute liberty to dispose of them as He pleases. His hands are free. He can make whatever He likes. The principle of justice in relation to the choice of His creation does not apply. However, by virtue of being All-Wise, All-Fair and All-Powerful, He provides to perfection all that is needed by any animal species, internally and externally. Thus an amoeba could be as happy and content within his tiny insignificant domain as a great king sitting on his majestic throne.
Such is not the freedom which can be justifiably enjoyed by the supreme god of Hindu mythology. Not being their creator, he has no right to interfere with the freedom of the soul and matter subjecting them to his slavery. There is also the question of choice at every act of creation. Why should one be made better than another, or placed higher in the order of creation? Why should one be born in the stately palace of a king or be delivered in the gloomy emptiness of a pauper`s shack?
It is this dilemma which necessitates the provision of some manner of justification for God in relation to His multifarious scheme of creation. The Hindu philosophy resolves this question by suggesting that God never takes an arbitrary decision in His capacity as a Creator. Contrary to the rest of the world`s religions, they see the earth as a place of punishment and reward. The conduct of life on earth, according to this philosophy, will directly bear upon the future shape to be granted to it in its next incarnation. The supreme god Brahmâ adjudges every act of life during its sojourn on earth. The future rests upon its own Karma.
Continued...
Re-examining the issue of Karma, let us now return to a purely academic discussion. The fate of every generation of life hinges entirely upon the Karma of its previous generation. The soul in itself is a neutral entity; so also is the matter to which it is bonded. As such the real question which Hindu sages try to resolve, relates to the wisdom behind the creative policy of God. If He is a just God, they argue, why should He display partiality to some over others? It is to answer this apparently unanswerable question, that they present the philosophy of the eternal unending circle of deeds and corresponding rewards or punishments. For the transmigration of souls it is this priniciple which works as an ongoing circle of cause and effect, crime and punishment, goodness and reward. As against this view, the image of God perceived by other major religions of the world is that of an All-Powerful Supreme Being, who can create at His own Will whatever He pleases. As such, He is the Supreme proprietor of all creation, enjoying absolute liberty to dispose of them as He pleases. His hands are free. He can make whatever He likes. The principle of justice in relation to the choice of His creation does not apply. However, by virtue of being All-Wise, All-Fair and All-Powerful, He provides to perfection all that is needed by any animal species, internally and externally. Thus an amoeba could be as happy and content within his tiny insignificant domain as a great king sitting on his majestic throne.
Such is not the freedom which can be justifiably enjoyed by the supreme god of Hindu mythology. Not being their creator, he has no right to interfere with the freedom of the soul and matter subjecting them to his slavery. There is also the question of choice at every act of creation. Why should one be made better than another, or placed higher in the order of creation? Why should one be born in the stately palace of a king or be delivered in the gloomy emptiness of a pauper`s shack?
It is this dilemma which necessitates the provision of some manner of justification for God in relation to His multifarious scheme of creation. The Hindu philosophy resolves this question by suggesting that God never takes an arbitrary decision in His capacity as a Creator. Contrary to the rest of the world`s religions, they see the earth as a place of punishment and reward. The conduct of life on earth, according to this philosophy, will directly bear upon the future shape to be granted to it in its next incarnation. The supreme god Brahmâ adjudges every act of life during its sojourn on earth. The future rests upon its own Karma.
Continued...
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