God in Vedas and Upanishads

i reject the apologies being offered for polyethism...its a wonderful thing. to me that is brilliant and poetic HUMAN endevour. you got your basis vectors, or thats as in music, showing off acute properties (ie shiva the romantic distroyer, vishnu the sustainer, durga the mysterious female force and so on) and zillions of personal or village or family deities which are some combinations. i love to go to the local noth-ameircan super-market style madrassi tamples with various isles for laxmi, ganesh, and many other gods who i dont recognize but for their name-plates in english.

hinduism is a human attempt to understand the nature and co-exist with it..so it has a god(s) but they are not exactly pure saviours like in islam and christianity. in islam, god is like a parent, who can magically provide a safe home as far as you follow the strict house-rules and curfew. he is a he, a poweful one who can smite ``others`` the evil tribes. therfore islam can offer much solace to troubled souls once the premise is accepted (or submitted to).

hinduism does not offer such security-blankie. my prediction is hinduism or such thoughts will flourish in times of prosperity, and islamlike will flourish in times of trouble.

#113 jang

Thanks, for ``i reject the apologies being offered for polyethism``. I am SO sick and tired of hindus who prattle on and on about ``ONE god``. What is this nonsense? Does human life consist of one activity only? Hindus have always recognized that life is multi-coloured, multi-hued and operates on many levels. Their conception of divinity is similar.

My guess is that this is a reaction to 100s of years and abuse from christians and muslims.

So some of us have become convinced that this ``ONE god`` bevakoofy has something special to offer. I assure you it hasnt anything to offer other than a certain kind of fascist or authoritarian impulse. It should come as no suprise that it is the most backward and violent hindus who are promoting Shri Ramachandra as ``ONE god`` who is the boss man of all the others. Let us not go down this ugly path of supremacist christianity or islam.

I am very happy at the responses of the participants. Let us focus on learning about each other`s religious thoughts rather than teaching them.

pmishraji,
Shukriya.

I have been reading Jang`s posts over the months and after reading his posts I feel more sympathy towards people who were born into Islamic fanatic/ absolutist hell hole.

Especially when I read his comments that Hinduism is complicated, confusing, etc my thoughts are ...hm...is this what some one who was born into Hinduism, and some one grew up in India can understand .........why should we get upset with Muslims and Christians? He has posted comments ridiculing Hindus worshipping stones, rivers, etc.

For a simpleton Hindu like me and perhaps most Hindus...it is difficult to comprehend such ``confusion`` and ``complication``.

If someone forces me to define Hindu thought in one sentence I will say -Try to understand this life, this universe while at the same time COMPLETELY respecting and allowing all other interpretations``. What is so complicated and confusing about this?...... How much freer and universal can you get beyond this?...........beyond me.

Look at the confidence with which one monotheist here comments about what ``God thought``...``God must have permitted`` hilarious...as if God has a private line to this guy.
And then this hilarious cover-up/ explanations for kissing the stone at Kaaba.


Swami Vivekananda has eloquently and elegantly trashed this intellectual superiority complex of monothiests.....and many other European philosophers before him have pointed out how much brutality and violence has been unleashed by the monotheists BECAUSE OF this superiority complex. I forgot who Schopenhauer...or Spinoza......

A man may worship a river or a million idols, but if he respects and shows kindness to
his fellow human beings he is infinitely better than a monotheist who ridicules other
people`s beliefs (besides of course flying planes into kafir buildings, destroying the kafir`s
places of worship, etc).


Here is one of my most favorite quotes, enjoy the rest of the day:

``The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.`` - Bertrand Russell

Re: # 111
``But I can share with you what I have understood , which may be right or wrong, I am not pretty sure``


SANJAY,
You don`t know and I don`t know...and don`t worry about it.

Be a free man. After all no one is going to say you
are not a ``true Hindu``!

Regards,

Re: # 111 Sanjay

It has always been self-evident to human beings that the purpose of Nature is to serve the humanity and not to lord over it. I do not blame the primitive human beings who were overwhelmed by the forces of nature like bolts and lightening, the thuder roars of the clouds, the floods, fires, and what not, but a great paradigm shift has occured in human thinking only in past few centuries when he started harnessing the forces of nature. Now it has been abundently made clear that all these forces serve humanity. So in a hierarichal system of creation man does appear to be the viceregent of the One Creator, who created rest of the universe to be conquered by us and serve us. So our thansgiving should be directed at the One who truly deserves it.

God is absolute and he is above all human emotions, norms, and criteria of justice. He is not constrained by time and space. But when He choses to talk to us, He speaks our language and He alludes to the frames of references that we are accustomed to. Just as we would not like a stranger to come to our house and start living in it claiming half the ownership He also abhors when we try to make His equals in his partnership. Just as a woman hates to share his man with another woman or vice versa, God does not like His rule shared. He commands us to have all our focuses focused at Him and no one else. The rule is simple,if you think that God is Omnipresent and Omnipotent then He can only be one. If there are many gods then none of them can be Omnipresent and Omnipotent and hence they cannot be gods.

Re: # 115 by Inquirer on June 9, 2006 10:31am PT
>>>>>Let us focus on learning about each other`s religious thoughts rather than teaching them<<<<<

Inquirerji,
You have good intentions but that is a typical Hindu thought!

Islamists learn about other religions so that they could get even more convinced that their religion is superior. A frequent declaration of Islamists on this board is that after reading ``Hindu ideology`` they have realized that Islam is ``superior, straight farward, elegant``.

About your and Sanjay`s comments that Hindus don`t care to learn other reliogions...that`s because when compared to the hyperreligious Muslims, an average Hindu gives a damn for religion, especially when it comes to other people`s religion. I don`t know Sanjay`s Hinduism and he doesn`t know my Hinduism...and that is totally fine. Why is it a problem????

Muslims don`t live for themselves or the nations and societies they live in but for Islam. What is so surprising about their religiosity or obsession with religion? Isn`t that Koranic teaching.....if your brother is not a muslim kill him ...but fight for a muslim even if he lives far away?

#114 If 1 god is good then zero god is better!

#119 bharath

There is a difference between boasting about ones religion and being well informed about it. Sadly, for my generation of hindus, we have been so busy with earning our living that we havent had enough time to really engage with hinduism (indic traditions in general). This should (and I hope, must) change in the future as there are more educated hindus who do not need to focus only on becoming engineers, accountants, drs etc.

If you look at religous christians and jews in the west, you will find scholars of the highest standing. Yes, some are more interested in ``boasting`` and proving others wrong, but many are quite humble and true scholars. These people focus on integrating religous tradition with history, archaeology, science, psychology etc. and also provide a way to reach young people.

We are currently missing such a group of people from the indic traditions. Some folks like RKMission have made a start in this direction but much, much more is needed.

bharath, do hindus not worship stones and rivers? why are you ashamed of it? why should i not make fun of the worship? i think what i said was it should not be hard for folks who worship rivers and snaked to understand worship of a book.

anyways garv se kaho hum hindu hain ;-)

Re: # 122
``garv se kaho hum hindu hain ;-)``

Jang,
I am afraid your posts don`t reflect this sentiment!

and how did you conclude that I am ``ashamed``
of your posts :-)


re#121
``If you look at religous christians and jews in the west, you will find scholars of the highest standing. Yes, some are more interested in ``boasting`` and proving others wrong, but many are quite humble and true scholars``

Mishraji,
I agree with this ......I am curious that you haven`t mentioned muslim scholars. have you come across any:-)?

about your lamentation about people not familiar with Indic thoughts ....all one has to do is read Vivekananda`s writings.....simple language....easy reading...

#123 bharath

Vivekananda is just one guy from a 100 years ago. We need more ideas and broader leadership. I would like to see more women scholars, more discussions of regional traditions, more discussion of relationship between indic traditions and new translations of epics etc.

Re: Muslim scholars, yes, well that is challenging. I have not seen much religous scholarship amongst muslims that a non-muslim would find compelling. Maybe this is just my ignorance...

My Hindu friends:
Just take Jang at his words.

Whatever kind of Hindus we are, we need not be self-conscious about it. The acceptance of a variety of ways of worship is unique Hindu characteristic. And indeed we are proud of it. Why, because it is not important what you worship. What is important is do we humble ourselves before God and do we accept our fellow human beings, nay beings, if they do not threaten us? However, unlike Buddhists we do not avoid war, we must fight for our rights.

Muslim Friends: You are entitled to your implicit assumptions and leading life based on them, however, you have no right to threaten and ridicule others. Certainly if you produce a threat to others, then you should not be surprised at a violent response.

#114 PMISHRAJI



So some of us have become convinced that this ``ONE god`` bevakoofy has something special to offer

Mishraji,

No not all. Its not that we are celebrating the (newly discovered) concept of One God in Hinduism. We are trying to fathom the real meanings of Hindusim, which you rightly say, has been corrupted by some.

Hinduism speaks of One God and thats the truth. Celeberations or no celeberations.

#117 BHARATH

What I wanted to say was that I am not pretty sure whether my understanding is right or wrong--not that what has been written in the scriptures is right or wrong.

There cannot be anything as a ``true Hindu`` or a ``fake Hindu`` or ``right Hindu`` or ``wrong Hindu``. A Hindu is a person who believes in ``Neti,Neti``(neither this nor that) and is in constant search of the ultimate truth. And in pursuit of the ultimate truth, its purogative for him to look into others` religions as well( unlike for ancient Hindus, there are many full fledged religions now around for modern Hindus) , see where his religion is different from other religions( and seek for the answer as to why) and where it is common. The ancient Hindus used to work in isolation, modern Hindus have many peers around for discussion.

I dont think there should be anything wrong in it when we discuss our religions with others or try to get to know other`s religions.

#126 sanjay

Maybe (a good hindu answer)! But let us be careful to separate hindu brahman from ``final prophet`` and ``only son of god`` and stuff like that. Also, some hindus are over critical of our 10000s of gods and goddesses. In my view, this type of diversity is an important part of our culture and we shouldnt lose it.