Miracles Can Happen

``Eight killed, 20 hurt in Indian occupied Kashmir gunfight
OCCUPIED SRINAGAR (May 22 2006): Eight people, including two freedom fighters were killed and more than 20 wounded when a gunfight broke out at a rally in the heart of occupied Srinagar on Sunday, police and witnesses said.

Police said attackers, one of them in police uniform, sneaked into a gathering of hundreds of Congress Party supporters in occupied Srinagar and opened fire.``

this is from http://www.brecorder.com/index.php?id=428439&currPageNo=1&query=&search=&term=&supDate=

a premier bussiness paper in pakistan which calls LeT (a banned jihadi organization ) militants ``Freedom Fighters``.

RE:- #25
Jay

And people like you are just here to create HAVOC in the name of religion. You are acting like an authority in Islam and for Pakistan, who knows what we don`t know.

If you are wounded and tortured by Islam or Pakistan, then I can provide you with some ointment. But, I am sure you will say , oh, NO this ointment is Islamic ointment ....blah,blah,blah.


Your useless rantings against Pakistan and Islam are just waste of time. So, go ahead , waste your time as much as possible. No one will hear yaa.

Mr. Jay
{{{``The good part is that people like you exist only on the internet. In the streets of pakistan you are the ones who silently support the hoodood. `` }}}

It seems like you think that you are the only one who knows about the people of Pakistan. I guess because you are one of those fundos. Believe me, a lot of people here have been living in Pakistan and do not agree with you that most people silently support huddod.

{{{``Take it from me Zeena, majority of the pakistanis, the educated pakistnis especially support the islaimic stste. That is why hoodood has existed for so long, survived benazir, nawaz and noww the mushy. he has changed so much of the constuttution but will not touch hoodood. `` }}}

Yes Pakistanis support Islam and want to be good muslims but they want an Islamic state in the sense that they will be provided justice and equality preached in Islam. Most of the people however would not like these mullahs screaming for everyone`s head. People in pakistan dont mind Islamic ideology as long as they have the right to choose or reject it.
Hudood has survived because Benazir and Nawaz never came together and asked each other for help. They always needed or wanted the mullahs to support them as they hated each other and were not willing to listen to each other. If those parties would have come together they would have had enough support to abolish this hudood ordinance.

{{{``Hoodood is th ecentral tenet of islam. Murder or rape is not a crime against the state. Only blas-phemy ois crime against the state. Murder is not, some one has to complain to police, that too a close relative and that is why honour killing ecxists in pakistan.
If you are dare enough say that hoodood is the core value of islam and that is why no one touches it,`` }}}}

So what is the core value of Islam. That minority religions are not given respect, or that you can have anyone put in jail by associating them with zina, or shirk. Please enlighten me by letting meknow how Hudood ordinance is helping ordinary people.
You are attacking Zeena- Why- Because she reads Quran and does not believe in what those stupid dari walys tell her. If you read her posts then you will realize that she might be a better muslim than all of us (although I am noone to say that). So stop attacking her or anyone else for that matter just because you think you are above all of us because you believe in the stupid Hudood ordinance. Or better still go and read Quran instead of believing in these mullahs.

Re: # 25

Mr. Jay
``The good part is that people like you exist only on the internet. In the streets of pakistan you are the ones who silently support the hoodood. ``
It seems like you think that you are the only one who knows about the people of Pakistan. I guess because you are one of those fundos. Believe me, a lot of people here have been living in Pakistan and do not agree with you that most people silently support huddod.

``Take it from me Zeena, majority of the pakistanis, the educated pakistnis especially support the islaimic stste. That is why hoodood has existed for so long, survived benazir, nawaz and noww the mushy. he has changed so much of the constuttution but will not touch hoodood. ``
Yes Pakistanis support Islam and want to be good muslims but they want an Islamic state in the sense that they will be provided justice and equality preached in Islam. Most of the people however would not like these mullahs screaming for everyone`s head. People in pakistan dont mind Islamic ideology as long as they have the right to choose or reject it.
Hudood has survived because Benazir and Nawaz never came together and asked each other for help. They always needed or wanted the mullahs to support them as they hated each other and were not willing to listen to each other. If those parties would have come together they would have had enough support to abolish this hudood ordinance.

``Hoodood is th ecentral tenet of islam. Murder or rape is not a crime against the state. Only blas-phemy ois crime against the state. Murder is not, some one has to complain to police, that too a close relative and that is why honour killing ecxists in pakistan.

If you are dare enough say that hoodood is the core value of islam and that is why no one touches it,``

So what is the core value of Islam. That minority religions are not given respect, or that you can have anyone put in jail by associating them with zina, or shirk. Please enlighten me by letting meknow how Hudood ordinance is helping ordinary people.
You are attacking Zeena- Why- Because she reads Quran and does not believe in what those stupid dari walys tell her. If you read her posts then you will realize that she might be a better muslim than all of us (although I am noone to say that). So stop attacking her or anyone else for that matter just because you think you are above all of us because you believe in the stupid Hudood ordinance. Or better still go and read Quran instead of believing in these mullahs.

rf, xcentric...

Thanks for your posts...

Don`t fret these jays and others... they`ve been repeating their mantra for many years.

Rafay syed sab..
kya aap paki akhbaar padhte bhi ho ki nahin?
umpteen guys from shahid haved burki down have been saying all along..
The economic boom is only transient.
Pakistan does not have the infrastructural base to propel this boom on and on.
Most of the money has come from the financial institutions and funds have been coming into pakistan at american behest post the musharaffesque u turn after 9/11.

In a few years the loans will have to paid, and no more money will be forthcoming once the american window to wealth closes.

Mushy has already fallen out with bush as all could see last time.

Why this refusal to be be firmly on the ground?
why head in clouds all the time?

Yaar giroge to bahut jor se giroge!
lookout!
Jayen

mr rf786 and zeena i think u did not read the article i did say we need to get rid of fundametalism and said if fanatiscm was the sollution afghanistan would be free i think fanatiscm takes you to the dark ages i agree with both of you on most points but first we need to understand our reigion which itself promotes liberalism science and emphasizes on research and devvelopment so what these mullahs tell us is the exact opposite of what we r told to do by God. if mullahs had there way we would have still lived in india. do you think suicide bombings terrorism are islamic? i think no religion in the world promotes terrorism a muslim cannot attack any one unless attacked so islam is a religion for peace and thats what we need to promote

Ref rf786 #26

[Finally, take it from me a Pakistani, majority of Pakistanis do not care about the Hudood laws]

According to the CIA World Factbook, in Pakistan,

Sex ratio:
at birth: 1.05 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.06 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 1.05 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.92 male(s)/female
total population: 1.05 male(s)/female (2006 est.)

Thus you are indeed correct in claiming that the majority of Pakistanis do not care about the Hudood laws.

Re: # 25
Hello, hello, hello
its always nice to hear from arrogant bigots like you, it makes my day ever so better. Iam sure Zeena will give u a fitting response, but hthis is just for my pleasure.

Pakistan came into being because of MA Jinnah, a secularist to the core, nowhere in the agreements signed by Muslim League and the British Raj is Pakistan referred to as a Islamic state, only place where religion has been inserted is the Objective resolution (post Jinnah death) under duress from the religious parties or Jamaat Islami propagandist who have brainwashed Pakis in believeing this two nation theory as fundamental pillar of Jinnah`s initiatives.

Pakistan came into being because Muslims wanted a separate state and their cause was led by a constitutuionalists who believed in the rule of law, democracy, equal rights and secularism. Had it been Mawdudi or the JUH, things wud have been different fortunately for Pakistan they were too full of themselves and opposed Jinnah, his Muslim League and sided with Congress. Now if that is the country u r looking for, as u suggested for Zeena here is my suggestion go to India they need u more, we have plenty of Muslims we can do away with a few.

If Islam was such a great solution, then this state and Saudi Arabia another based on the same laws would have been crime free, all citizens would be considered equal, there wud be no separation btw Govt and ppl, and its citizens wud be considered human beings. We all know that was not to be, as evidenced by the murdering religious parties in the form of LJ, SSP, SM, JI and LT. Saudi Arabia is the birth place for Al qaeda and its vision of Islam, that is the product of narrow minded religious bigots who do not wish to hear or tolerate divergent viewpoints which are considered punishable by death. Was this why Pakistan was created? I disagree.

As for the Hudood laws, well u r right, even Musharraf has failed to change them and thats why many Pakistanis who are able to distinguish fact from fiction criticize the General for his double policies and failure to deliver Pakistab back to its rightful owner ie the people. Hudood laws are surviving only because of the Generals need to stay in power, his wheeling and dealing with the crazed mullas, unchecked violence perpetuated by these fundo organizations getting official support starting from Gen Yahya days against Awami League and today in the form of LJ`s etal unleashing terror in Pakistan, Kashmir and Afghanistan (Taliban).

When the state sponsors religious intolerance and sanctions violence by a few that usually leads to fascism and eventually anarcy which u hv started to witness in Baluchistan and Frontier, as they say what goes around comes around.

Finally, take it from me a Pakistani, majority of Pakistanis do not care about the Hudood laws which more importantly are not the laws enshrined by God but those written by a deranged dictator and supported by his fundo supporters. These fundos till the last election which again was engineered for obvious reasons were never able to garner majority in elections, they were always regarded as the fringe nuisance value thus the reason to keep secular leaders out of the country and let the mullas roam freely.

If u wish to spread your propaganda about hudood laws atleast get the facts straight, these r Zia laws not hudood laws.

Zeena,

people like you are the bane of pakistan. You talk of relogion not doing any good for pakistan, well well, read the pak.org official history of pakistan. Pakistan was created for islam, the great two nation thory that muslims cannot live with the hindus. There is no way, and pakistan should not be anything other than an islamic state. The good part is that people like you exist only on the internet. In the strrets of pakistan yoy are yhe ones who silently support the hoodood.

Take it from me Zeena, majority of the pakistanis, the educated pakistnis especially support the islaimic stste. That is why hoodood has existed for so long, survived benazir, nawaz and noww the mushy. he has changed so much of the constuttution but will not touch hoodood.

Hoodood is th ecentral tenet of islam. Murder or rape is not a crime against the state. Only blas-phemy ois crime against the state. Murder is not, some one has to complain to police, that too a close relative and that is why honour killing ecxists in pakistan.

If you are dare enough say that hoodood is the core value of islam and that is why no one touches it,

Re: # 21

I second whatever Zeena has written.

I am very hopeful that there will be further progress, within next decade.The turnaround has happened.There are other optimists like me..............like Mantolives. And we will work together.for a modern, democratic, secular Pakistan.

arjunm,

It was passed through a presidential order under Zia ul Haq. The process was unconstitutional...

Then a non-party based parliament ratified it. A process- especially a constitutional process- is always logical.

Ofcourse one can always quote the 1974 Ahmaddiya Fiasco ... where two of the most liberal and left parties in Pakistan`s history sat in government and opposition (PPP and NAP) and mullahs were no where in site... But even then ... the most state could not take away the minority community`s right to profess as they please....

It took a military dictator to actually take that right away.

RE:- #19

syedrafay212 sahib

For your kind information, Pakistan is never an Islamic republic of Pakistan. This name is given by some Pseudo Mullahs.

Even If we presume for a second, it is Islamic republic . Then with all honesty of your heart, tell me where is Islam in Pakistan, which is # 1 in CORRUPTION in each and every level.

People like you are crying out loud like broken records, who are stuck with this word, Isssssslaaam, Issslllllmmmm.

Where is light, me lord???

In Pakistan what ever is happening is exactly opposite of Islam. Everyone claims I am Muslim, Muslim......Being Muslim is being honest and nice humans with love of humanity.....Well, in Pakistan all these qualities are extinct.....

So, come out of fool`s paradise and face reality...............

Stop projecting this useless word, Islam again and again..... Islam is our personal choice. It has got nothing to do with Governance.

How much Islam has benefitted Pakistan? By saying this mind it, I am NOT rejecting Islam or any religion.

I respect others beliefs and religions. But, I am just asking to stop ranting Islam, Islam and start improving lives of poor Pakistanies by teaching them to come out of their ignorance and start living in this century. Thank you

#15 by Mantolives on May 21, 2006 8:20am PT



If the rest of Paki-land wants the Islamization ... then they can do it following a constitutional process


Serious question: Were the laws requiring 4 witnesses etc passed as part of a constitutional process or by decree( considering Zia was the military dictator when they were passed..)

i read all ur comments about the article and its good that u are really interested and shared ur thoughts . Well some one said that we dont need to bring Islam in our political system or atleast not in our discussion about progress , as far as my knowledge about this country i think it is the islamic republic of pakistan based . The sole purpose of having an independant nation was to have an islamic nation .surprise! we live in an islamic nation and that cannot be changed
some one said we muslims are a cult following a prophet well to add to your knowledge sir it is the fastest growing RELIGION in the world
some one said we talk about the end of prophethood and yet we follow quaid e azam and liaqat ali . well for u my friend i dont have words comparing prophets with politicians is bizzare
well the article was intended to tell people that miracles can only happen if you start taking the right steps , it was not to start a religious debate.
for the person who came back after three years well sir if you would have stayed here you would have made a difference intellignt people like you left the country and we had a brain drain in pakistan so comparing it with the country you are in is ignorance as no one in that country left their country thinking of a better life

actually i feel patriotism has died in this country and it needs to be awakend again