Was Jesus Christ Married?

Re: # 34 Mohammad (SAW), just like Isa/Jesus (AS) was A mere human. That`s what Islam lays emphasis on. Only Allah is the immortal entity. But as Hassan sahib pointed out, as religion gets contorted and develops into a `mythology`, human beings approach the status of Almighty, which is contradictory to the actual teachings of all the monotheistic religions.

And WHO is the Prophet of the west???

I dont believe that God X, God Y or God Z has created us. I go by other rationalists and dont subscribe to the creation stuff. All Abrahamic religions has one basic flaw. The first couple had children. How they multiplied? Interesting! The children must have had sex within the family of considerable combinations, without which there is no multiplication of world population. As for Indian mythology Yama and Yami had similar incestuous relation.

Therefore imaculate conception can be seen in the context of the times when sex is a sin. Had the present writers (from the west) of Bible were to write they would have written about Christ having normal coital relations with many girls b4 his claim to fame.

I dont think that a 6-footer male god had created this world. All religious books and gods are man`s creation. We must have see religious books as documents of the respective times. In India and the west I can rant against any religion and be alive. Can that happen in your homeland, Mr. Gill? So, can we talk in a similar free-thinking environment in a Muslim country about Islam and Mo? Delhiwala had a good question which you cant ignore Mr. Gill. Ignoring such vital question could settle our opinion in favour of Mr. Gill being slectively ignorant about his backyeard and forthcoming about his adapted home. If yes, Peace Be Upon My Ar$e that Mr. Gill is a true free-thinker.

Re: # 32
Now would you hold same belief about Mohmmad Sahib(Prophet) too?
If you called him a mere human what would happen to you.

West is an interesting culture, it lets people in from far-off countries who can come and debate about Christ, but the same people would behead and blow buildings in West if their own Prophet is viewed with same spectacles......

HEAR HEAR. and cheers, mr. Gill.

ana:
Thanks for your further comments. I am learning quite a bit about different points of view; about those who believed Christ was human, about others (docetics) who believed in the divine side only and considered ``Christ as human`` only an appearance, etc. There is much in Christianity (like other religions also) which defies natural laws. It is not only people like me who are skeptical of the traditional Christian beliefs, virgin birth, Immaculate Conception, etc., but many Christians also who fail to make much sense of them. Believe me, I am not writing these things to give you or others, any personal offense. I respect you and your beliefs.
It was nice to have this brief exchange with you. You might teach me some important things about Christianity and I`ll appreciate that. Like Ghalib: ``Ka`aba meray peechay haiy, Kaleesa meray aagay.``
Mohammad Gill

sifar,

i`m not really `back`. i just felt compelled to respond to this article.

no one is asking people to believe in what dan brown has written. the sad fact is that some do believe in what he`s written. i could watch the movie or read the book, but i could also come out with firmer convictions than some do. yeah controversy sells, all right. and with it one sells a little bit of himself/herself. (or a lot)

take good care,
ana

gill sahib,

thank you for your response.

gnosticism was rejected by the church because it denied jesus` human nature, not because it was a threat to their `power.` i think the church could have maintained its `power` if they had embraced it. to the gnostics, christ was only `divine` - one of many divine beings. the gnostics also believe that christ did not die on the cross for the salvation of all, but that he `seemed` to die, and that he appeared to reveal the secret of how to get to heaven to only `a few spiritual elite disciples.`

of course this appeals to those who cannot conceive of jesus being human, or to those few elite who would want to be powerful. i also understand that the story of jesus is seen as fiction just as we view dan brown`s `work` as fiction. but to me, it also makes sense why gnosticism would be rejected.

i really don`t want to spend too much time here. it seems that you are not looking at all sides, but only those that would debunk everything that the gospels state. that is your choice. there isn`t one side of the story, but forgive me for not putting much stock in what you wish to show here on chowk, as there are those who put no stock into christianity.

you also be well. :)
ana

Re: # 21 Welcome (back?) dear lady! It`s nice to see you around after quite a while.

Re: # 8 well, the movie, or the novel for that matter, doesn`t espouse or condemn Christianity. It just presents various takes and views on it, and the ever-mounting controversy that surrounds it. Anything that can make good material for a fictional write-up will gather fame, and controversy sells...that`s what fiction is all about! Nobody is asking people to believe in what Dan Brown has adduced...it is a novel after all!

Re: # 7 Very aptly put forth.

thanks and regards.

#23,

I don`t know what caused you to react and what are you reacting to?!?!

I am too complicated yet simple for you to understand me or form an opinion about my views. So, your tirade against me is amusing.

There is a difference between Christ/anity`s beliefs and ``Christ`s marriage``; and I dind`t know they were interdependent or any relevance.

I wasn`t discouraging you from your quest.......Please do continue.

All i was doing as an interactor of this website is posting my opinion of your piece..... I assume that is why you post your articles on such a site....and I`ve the right to do so.

You mention why your article was rejected:
``.......“Your considerations about, for instance, Jesus’ marital status are speculative.” But the thesis of Jesus’ celibacy is equally speculative.........``

There was a reason. I (obviously not the only one) raise the objection under the same circumstances. You cannot present rumors and gossip as a literary piece.



PS - If you refer to my straight forward posts (It is an old habit, and that you obviously misread) on this site as the basis of your opinion about me and what I world I live...etc., you couldn`t be more wrong.....

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ana:
I respect your beliefs but there is not only one version of the story that I described in the article. Newer facts are coming to light after the discovery of Nag Hamadi`s documents. One should be able at least to see a differing viewpoint. The so called Gnostic Gospels were banned by the Church for centuries because they were perceived as a threat to its power.
I don`t suggest that Jesus was married as a matter of actual fact because I don`t know. So far there is no historical evidence confirming it or contradicting it. There is however a possibility that he was married indeed.
I assure you that my study is not confined only to ``Spong, and the writings you have listed.`` I am trying to understand the broader picture. At least, I am trying and am not depending only on the hearsay.
Be well,
Mohammad Gill

kaurasach:
You want to create a world in which your whims and beliefs reign supreme; everything else which you don`t like or approve should be banned and put under a moratorium. You can have your way ia a world of your own fantasy. But if you are living in the real world, you should learn to live symbiotically with others. There are billions of otrher people living in the world. Many of them may have different ideas than you have.
If some people want to understand how various beliefs came into existence, what`s wrong with it? To you, it may not be worthwhile but to those who are trying to understand these things critically, it may be important.
Think over it.
Mohammad Gill

Hi all..
surprising that such a ghisa pita ``topic``..had to come out from below the carpet now that the code is on big screen..
Truly our (south asian) fora are enslaved by the goras!

Without anyone even realising it.

There is abundant material on the web on this topic.

My able frien Gene Matlock has written a book on it. (we used to correspond often ..emails mostly).

Matlock suggested the jews came out of ancient afghanistan then known as ``Bactria`` by the yoonanis. (greeks).

Zarathrushtra (zoroaster) of the parsis also came from there.

Many jew and kashmirir &pathan surnames are similar.
(matlock has a full table on his site www.viewzone.com)

other similarities with Indians their neighbours are ..
1 - Abraham & sarah (Indian Brahma & saraswati)
2 - the second wife hazra (hagar in bible?) ..saraswati had a tributary named hakra.
(transmutation of life giving rivers as personages) ..
3 - The jewish custom of beheading the sacrificial victim is called ``shizhe``...in plain sanskrit
That is ``shira-ched`` or cutting of the throat.
4 - The jews worshipped a fire god....Indians too were fire worshippers & so were the
iranians..
5 - The jews considered Cyrus (Krush) with respect..The indians had their Krishna.(but this
may be a different non-iranian dark krush...except he was an exception to the generally
very fair indians of the time so as to derive a pseudonym meaning ``dark one`` as he
stood out on that account).
6 - Takth Suleiman implies solomon was in kashmir too. (solomon`s throne or seat)
7 - Ancient Bactrian records mention (Gundaporus) a celebrated carpenter with markings
on his body passing thru eastwards thru bactria.
8 - The jews consider that their ``old home`` was much to the east of judea.
9 - Israelis use the word ``bene`` bani`` etc to indicate a section of their people.
The vedic aryans refer to a class of people called ``Panis`` (phonecians) who were rich
and were traders, but were not arya.
10 - Jesus was ``lost in the wilderness`` for 10 years of his early life and returned as a
grown youth to proclaim revolution.
Many think he was the ``isai-nath`` mentioned in some indian texts who was initiated in
the nath parampara of the naths (Gorakh..gahini..kanif...ending in Nivrutti &
Dnyaneshwar of maharashtra in the middle ages.

So...
No amoke without fire.

We know how murderous the church is...(all mono-theistic religions are)...the inquisition in spain under torquemada is all too well documented to deny...
And so is the islamist ``wahabi purity drive underway now...
What europe did 400 years ago..muslims are doing now..
it is the darkest hour befoe the muslim dawn....
hope they re-capture their lost renaissance ...cordoba in spain!

Jayen

gill sahib,

i think that if indeed you have an interest in learning about christianity then you should rely on more than the writing of spong, and the writings you have listed.

was jesus christ married? no, he was not.

you write:

Such speculations become more credible when they are viewed in the background of concerted efforts of the orthodox Christians to falsely tarnish Mary Magdalene’s character. For if she were not prominent and close to Christ, why would she be character-assassinated in order to preserve the myth of Christ’s celibacy?

this is, with all due respect, an erroneous statement. we, as orthodox christians, believe that it was mary magdalene who christ first appeared to, after his resurrection, and she has been revered by orthodox christians since the beginnings of the church, as one of the female apostles. it was the vatican that declared her a prostitute (recanted centuries later), not the orthodox church. there was no effort by the orthodox to tarnish mary of magdala`s character, and therefore that cannot support the so-called credibility of such speculations.

perhaps you meant something else by orthodox christians, but i can only speculate, as you have by writing this article, that you were referring to those in the orthodox church, as opposed to the vatican or the protestants, and if you had, then you are wrong.

i understand that you wish for open-minded people to read this, but there are open-minded people in this world who are of faith, and see the difference between truth and heresy, and it`s a shame that open-minded, freethinking people such as you cannot see that.

sincerely,
ana