Islam and the Age of Globalization

malik99 #119 {``Salim sahib, the actions of a loud, violent, committed, brainwashed, powerful evangelist cult which is causing so much suffering in the world can only be explained via economic interests, such as oil and Israel. Are they invading other countries simply to defend themselves against muslims? If yes, then why did the evangelists backed government attack a secular Iraq which meant no harm to anyone? ``}


Malik Sahib,
Before we get into a discussion of the 4,000 Jews, let`s stop blaming others for our own problems. Also, let`s not defend the senseless, self-defeating, and stupid actions of our violent minority just because Dubya does this or that. Is Christians killed 10 babies and Muslims killed only 5, it doesn`t make Islam twice as good as Christianity.

Saddam Hussein came from Muslim people. Muslim people, including Saudi Arabia, Palestinians, Jordan, and to a degree Pakistan, backed Saddam in his invasion of Muslim (albeit Shia) Iran. The Tally Ban were Muslim people who killed and tortutred mainly Muslim victims. The ``freedom`` fighting Jihadi murderers in Kashmir end up killing Muslim Kashmiris, while they enjoy their murderous spree against Hindu and Sikh civilians. The current ``sectarian`` killings in Iraq are the result of Muslim Sunni and Muslim Shia infighting. The Wahabbis have always killed Muslims and have never participated in any war against others. So, the problems of violence, cruelty, dictatorships, mass killings, suicide bombings, and backwardness are all perpetrated by Muslims against other Muslims - homegrown, home fed, and home delivered. Let`s deal with real issues instead of looking for 4,000 Jews.

Tahmed3 #151 {``VRV : Your leaders have been predicting the collapse of Pakistan since 1947. Seems like you need a new Horoscope Man after 50 years of bad predictions. :-) ``}

And you are trying your best to make their leaders` prediction come true. When will you Paki Punjus learn that there are other people in this country?

Tahmed2 #157 {``Fortunately, Pakistan`s survival does not depend on Indian wishes.``}

Unfortunately, Pakistan`s survival DOES depend on the selfish attitude and evil wishes of Paki Punjus like you. Your myopia and chauvinism lost East Pakistan, your greed is turning off the other provinces, and your despotism and cruelty is bound to result in catastrophe. Your own personal passion against the repatriation of Pakis stranded in BD betrays your hypocrisy and exposes your lack of Muslim credentials and concern for ALL Pakis and not just Paki Punjus. I wish there were more Indians reminding us of what we need to fix and fewer Pakis like you pretending that there is nothing wrong, waving the green and white banner, all the while eating away at the foundation of Pakistan like termites residing in Putahar. May Allah protect us from evil munafiqs like you.

#161 by jahangasht on June 21, 2006 5:14am PT


Seems I have hit a raw nerve


Aww...paki can`t handle the truth...being that you`re a paki, there`s a 10% chance that you stitch soccer balls and a 90% chance that you are an Islamic terrorist and about to blow yourself up..


when all freedom struggles turned into terrorism?


Umm..when you outlawed the ``indigenous freedom fighters``..you can call it a freedom struggle..doesn`t change the fact that Indian Kashmir isn`t about to banega Pakistan..


Everything from the language to law to rules and regulations and whatnot was set up by the british and you follow like monkeys


Better than following the system set up by a 7th century paedophile....

#161 by jahangasht

Everything from the language to law to rules and regulations and whatnot was set up by the british and you follow like monkeys...

Sounds like a sore case of sour grapes. As if you Pakis never tried to emulate western-style governance and systems. It is only that you`ve failed, and miserably at that.

And, btw, Masadi, I thank God and Steven Speilberg that Hollywood movies do have the kind of currecny they have here in Pak (to be sure, not half as much as Indian movies do-- damn!!).
Your citing of Hollywood as a form of American cultural hegemony isn`t valid anyway, imho. Hollywood produced many, many great movies about the human condition and spirit that would be inane to describe as Americana. OTOH, most Indian movies, if not so formulaic to begin with as to bore one to death (and this includes that silly movie Lagaan) are more famous for portraying Western values as necessarily evil ones. Drinking, or example, is only what the bad guys do, or the good guys in their momentary lapses of character. Hypocrisy at its height!!
Yes, there are many mindless `teenage` chick flicks produced in hollywood. For every one of such, there are probably two disgustingly simplistic Bollywood and Lollywood films that do little more than render viewers braindead.

#158 by tahmed32

And what I read is hatred for muslims and resentment at Pakistan`s existence coming from every new Indian who comes to chowk. Must be the polluted Delhi air, I think, that causes this problem.

All the while tahmed32 will continue to pretend that there is no ongoing Jihad that his country is waging against India. Hundreds of innocent Indians die each year due to this state-sponsored Jihad, yet he will continue to wonder in mock innocence as to why Indians hate Pakis. If denial were a sport, Pakis would be the world champions.

#126 arjun_m,#127 and 128bjk
Seems I have hit a raw nerve , calling you Shining India arse boys sweatshop workers, slaving away for New East India Companies in present-day equivalent of Calcutta`s Writers Buildings......
And thinking I am Bina Shah, whoever she is, ha ha ha
Is this the best you could come up with?
I dont want to tax your Nerd brains by looking up who was Jahangasht Jahanian...
oh ho, cant read a proper book? Try google yaar....
Well you reveal your ID, I will reveal mine, but being a woman?
Also back to Akbar.
As Ambassador addressing a predominantly Kashmiri community, it was kosher to make political statements. Your get in your binary brains the service rules and regulations, these are the same in India and Pakistan...
And better check how your DickShits oops I mean Dixit and Kauls and Nasim Hussains all civil service ambassadors of Bharat, made political statements, it was part of their job.
But your hate and ignorance both saddens and frightens me, not to say your pompous pride in your shitty surrounds which you ignore in your Glorious Dreams of a nascent Super Power!
Some dream!!
And also please enlighten me of the cut-off date when all freedom struggles turned into terrorism?
I hope it is after 23 March 1930, otherwise what would we call poor Bhagat Singh Shaheed??
You see another thing is that we know too much about you, and you only harp on the latest line from your masters, like monkeys...
First it was the Mughals, for all the hoohaa about bigoted Aurangzeb, you guys held 2/3 of the Mansabdar (top) posts of the Empire, speaking persian better than him...
then it was the East India Company, then the British Crown, then the English Culture Raaj which you call Independent India. Everything from the language to law to rules and regulations and whatnot was set up by the british and you follow like monkeys...
And now enter the NEW EAST INDIA COMPANY, the multinational globalization...
And you are singing in your arses of oh how good it is....
Jai Hind
I mean Hind of hindi, not english, honest!
bye bye, I have real work to do now..

#157 by tahmed32

Fortunately, Pakistan`s survival does not depend on Indian wishes.

Pakistan doesn`t need India`s wishes to destroy itself, but even America, whose whims dictate who is in power in your country isn`t quite sanguine about its prospects. Not that Pakistan isn`t capable of self-destructing on its own.

re. masadi # 142
``That is where you don`t understand the concept of cultural hegemony and the hundreds of billions spent by America to push its culture, advertising, movies, media etc.``
My point isn`t that cultural hegemony doesn`t exist. I already agreed that it does. But such hegemony is not necessarily oppressive and exploitative. And though (or perhaps because of its subliminal nature) it may be unknowingly assimilated in a given `foriegn` land, it does not follow that the people of the former culture are admired by those in the latter. People, after all, are perceived as much more than the jeans they wear and the cars they drive.

``When shalwar kameez becomes as popular among the US public like jeans have become in the Muslim world,...``
Again, too simplisitc. Jeans and or shirt and trousers may jsut be a more practical satorial choice in those climates. But even if not, my point that such copycating does not necessarily lead to admiration still stands. Most of the 9/11 hijackers 7/7 bombers were quite Westernized in their appearnce. That didn`t stop them from hating the `other`.

(I`m curious, masadi: where do you live? I`m betting its NOT in Pakistan)

`` when movies from India have as wide coverage as hollywood in the third world,
LMAO!! Good `un!
(oh crap! were you serious? Oh maaan, please, PLEASE tell me you weren`t!!)

``... then you can talk about reciprocity in cultural recognition, not before.``
I didn`t ever suggest that their is anything eqauting to reciprocity. But two points are to be made here:

1. Those U.S. pushing the forms of cultural hegemony you mention -- mostly brand names -- represent the American people and `American values` only as much as those Islamist extremist exporting terror represent Islam. I am sure, as an avid reader of Chomsky you are only too aware of the extent of power in the hands of the few in America, and of the discourse on how consent is manufactured within the US as much as hegemony is `enforced` without, by these same powers.

2. A large section of America is quite happy to imbibe Hindu/Zen/taoist and any number of New Age `cultural` practises. Even Islam is the fastest growing religion there. And many would argue that multiculturalism is taken to ridiculous heights there (I was reading just the other day that bilungualism (Eng and Spanish) in schools in some state costs the taxpayer five times as much as having just one language, and shows NO payoffs anyway!).

So rest assured, there is little fear of new `culture` in America. It is another matter entirely that mercantile forces (yes, which have an obscence influence on government) perpetuate a cultural hegemony both within and without the U.S. But this can hardly be seen as American values pushed down people`s throats by the American people.

`` Similarly democracy and freedom might not be only American values, in fact I argue that they don`t even exist in America, but such hegemony has made sure that they are patented as ``American``, and that is the way they are recognized around the globe as well.

yaar, again... where do you reside? No one I know, in Pakistan, sees America as a harbinger of freedom and democracy (though many do long for the relative rule of law there, but then living in Pakistan, that`s perfectly understandable). And, oh, I DO know and converse with people from a cross section of society here. Do you?

#155 I hope you are able to read the sub-conscious minds of Pakistan. I am unfortunately incapable of such feats, and can only read what you write on chowk. And what I read is hatred for muslims and resentment at Pakistan`s existence coming from every new Indian who comes to chowk. Must be the polluted Delhi air, I think, that causes this problem.

#154 Fortunately, Pakistan`s survival does not depend on Indian wishes.

sri: I am sure you wont forget kargill. You wont forget 1947 either. No problem.

#152 by tahmed32

I second harish on this. Hate is subconsciously ingrained in Pakistani genes so much that it doesn`t show up in regular interactions. It just spontaneously erupts when a group of shoppers are shopping in Chandni chowk in the form of a suicide bomber or a bomb in a carry bag.

PS : we will never forget Kargil

#151 by tahmed32

Your leaders have been predicting the collapse of Pakistan since 1947. Seems like you need a new Horoscope Man after 50 years of bad predictions. :-)

Why just Indians? Even the CIA in your adopted homeland thinks so, as do many Paki commentators.

#152 by tahmed32

I am glad you think you have evolved beyond the monkey stage. Actually, even monkeys dont walk around smoldering with hatred the way you Indians do.

Coming from a man whose countrymen have been waging a Jihad against Indians for almost 30 years now, this is amusing to say the least.