Islam and the Age of Globalization

Mr or Ms Folio: I am glad you think you have evolved beyond the monkey stage. Actually, even monkeys dont walk around smoldering with hatred the way you Indians do.

VRV : Your leaders have been predicting the collapse of Pakistan since 1947. Seems like you need a new Horoscope Man after 50 years of bad predictions. :-)

Re: # 145

We all evolved from monkeys. Why bring in our ancestors in this?

Indians are not frustrated for the loss of some ulcerous regions. It`s good for the body of India & that`s what I mentioned to my fellow Indians.

Re: # 145

It shows who`s frustrated. A bunch of losers from the state that is in the dying moments of history. Sorry about your frustration. I am showing mirror to you guys. Like it or hate it. See u tomorrow. Till then cringe and collapse like your state.

#144 by rf786

What if tomorrow, gays in India demand the right to choose, exercizing their democratic right, u certainly can oppose or support their demand that wud be your democratic right.

If you argue on these lines, it is a slippery slope. Everyone can have a seemingly genuine reason to feel disaffected. EVen I feel robbed because I (and many more from my community) couldn`t get into the best college due to the Indian government`s reservation policies. Does that mean I demand my own country?

Then, why not allow the same right to those who feel disenfranchized, the urge to go their own way Or, provide them with a better alternative.

What better could have been offered? Wasn`t one man one vote enough? India was/is overwhelmingly Hindu yet the Congress promised a secular state, wasn`t that good enough?

Forcing excuses of diversity or state security or giving them shining Inida placards is all hogwash and in direct contradiction to the basic principles of democracy.

Everybody has a reason to feel disenfranchized. Among Muslims too, Shias, Ahmedis, Wahabbis, Salafis, Deobandis, Barelvis can all feel disenfranchized, does that mean tomorrow you`ll allow them all to exercise their right to self-determination? This right is something that is granted only under specific conditions: like oppression for instance, which led to East Timor. How were Muslims oppressed in pre-Partition India?

Anyway: these postings, #145 and #146, are my contributions of the day to the Desi Geniuses of Chowk. Cheers!!

masadi #144 Why dont you let off your steam at those who really hate you - namely these Indians who are right here. Rather than letting off hot air about the US. Or are you abu-al Syed Don Quixote who fights unseen monsters while ignoring the monkeys chattering around you??

I see we have a new monkey from India on chowk letting off the 50 years of resentment among Indians at being told by Jinnah to screw off - So, shall we call this a complete PortFolio of monkeys?? :-)

Re: # 140

{already made it very clear that I`m against secession based on religious, linguistic or even regional grounds. In fact, I`m against secession of any kind. The best bet for India is to stick together and thrive in the diversity (which is already hapening) and not bicker over parochial issues. How do you expect me to support such demands?}

I do not expect anything, Iam merely asking for a response on the right to choose, whether its based on religion, language or regional grounds that is immaterial in the context of our line of discussion. What if tomorrow, gays in India demand the right to choose, exercizing their democratic right, u certainly can oppose or support their demand that wud be your democratic right. Then, why not allow the same right to those who feel disenfranchized, the urge to go their own way Or, provide them with a better alternative. Forcing excuses of diversity or state security or giving them shining Inida placards is all hogwash and in direct contradiction to the basic principles of democracy.

Re: # 141


Harish bro,

We can communicate thru` emails. Pl see my ilog. More info in mails.

Thanks.

#81 PM writes <<< Its is proving the larger cultural admiration that would help you make your point. >>>

That is where you don`t understand the concept of cultural hegemony and the hundreds of billions spent by America to push its culture, advertising, movies, media etc. When shalwar kameez becomes as popular among the US public like jeans have become in the Muslim world, when movies from India have as wide coverage as hollywood in the third world, then you can talk about reciprocity in cultural recognition, not before. Similarly democracy and freedom might not be only American values, in fact I argue that they don`t even exist in America, but such hegemony has made sure that they are patented as ``American``, and that is the way they are recognized around the globe as well.

#139 by Folio

Thanks for the link yaar. BTW, are you Telugu or Tamil? And where are you from?

#138 by rf786

Wud u follow your own advise in Kashmir or Assam? Its not that simple is it?

I already made it very clear that I`m against secession based on religious, linguistic or even regional grounds. In fact, I`m against secession of any kind. The best bet for India is to stick together and thrive in the diversity (which is already hapening) and not bicker over parochial issues. How do you expect me to support such demands?

True, Nehru and his congress party was smart enough to break these feudals, rajputs etc immediately after partition, maybe, maybe had Jinnah remained alive for just a few more years things wud have been different for Pakistan, then again to be honest this is just speculation.

See, that`s the basic flaw in the ML structure. There was just one leader Jinnah. He lacked the foresight to cultivate and mentor a second-rung leadership that could take over when the need arose (something that is being repeated in today`s Pakistan. What after Musharraf?). Do you think the feudals would have sit by idly if Jinnah had tried to move against them? In any case, the feudals used Jinnah (and not the other way round as many would like to believe) to achieve their aims of a more secure future (since the Congress had made it clear that it would abolish the Zamindari system as soon as it came to power). It would have been impossible for him because to a large extent, it was with their support/financial muscle that he could achieve his aim, and they extracted their pound of flesh in the form of their fiefs.

Re: # 137

Harish brother,

Avan periya naayi/Vaado pedda Kukka. Ama daani gaadu. Idi vaadi Maaru peru. Slippery candidate.

To familiarise and get latest news on Baloch issue, pl visit:

www.governmentofbalochistan.blogspot.com
www.balochwarna.org
www.bso-na.org
www.balochvoice.com
www.ostomaan.org.

Best.

Re: # 137

{If right to self-determination is a democratic right, would you allow Balochistan to secede? There already seems to be a movement to that effect.}

To be honest, maybe not. Then again, given our experience in East Pakistan I wud certainly give them the right to express their dissent and wud insist on giving them a fair chance. Pakistan messed-up with the Bengalese, we must not repeat the same mistake in Baluchistan.

Wud u follow your own advise in Kashmir or Assam? Its not that simple is it?

{The point is not that. It is that these feudals and Nawabs had more their own interests in mind and less that of ordinary Muslims. If you see in retrospect, these feudals continue to dominate Pakistan`s polity, while ordinary Pakis are nowhere in the equation, so there}

True, Nehru and his congress party was smart enough to break these feudals, rajputs etc immediately after partition, maybe, maybe had Jinnah remained alive for just a few more years things wud have been different for Pakistan, then again to be honest this is just speculation.

#136 by rf786

right of self-determination.

If right to self-determination is a democratic right, would you allow Balochistan to secede? There already seems to be a movement to that effect.

If u r a landlord, nawab or pandith does that make u lesser of a person in any way? I thought we were talking about equality? ML was dominated by Jinnah and he was niether of the two.

The point is not that. It is that these feudals and Nawabs had more their own interests in mind and less that of ordinary Muslims. If you see in retrospect, these feudals continue to dominate Pakistan`s polity, while ordinary Pakis are nowhere in the equation, so there.