Lament of a Disillusioned Citizen

``The subcontinent was just a conglomeration of independent families with their own heads and traditions. Our mother was the Indus Valley and it still is.``

Yeah, the Ganges is my mother, a Punjabi with family ties going back generations to the land of Punjab in the vicinity of Potohar. Whereas Indus is the mother of Jinnah and Liaqat, those who never came close to Indus till they took power based on a religion of Arab traditions. Akbar Ahmed may be able to sell that snake oil to Punjabi Mussulmaans, please don`t try the same with us.

``ncorrect, this is just another manufactured myth to protect Nehru`s hidden private life as a full blown faggot. Lord Mount-Bat- ten met Nehrujee when posted in Singapore, it was love at first sight for both, Lady Mountbatten was just the side dish used as a cover for these two closet gays.``

And the faggot Jinnah was hiding in the closet and jerking off. Heck it was the jealousy that made him mad and strive for Pakistan.

Paki ``civilization`` is based on the banks of denial...and I don`t mean the river in Egypt..

HE is a perfect example...he`s still in denial about the IT export figures..or the war in kargil..

His Excellency #70 {``Just like the courses of these great rivers don`t meet, our histories, religions and traditions also don`t meet. ``}

Whether they meet or not, the fact is that each of these rivers either originates in or traverses Indian territory - Indus, Chenab, Ravi, Jhelum, Sutlej, Beas, Ganga, Jumna. Yes all of them are Indian, except for one - the dirty and muddy Kabul River that joins the Indus in Pakistan.

#70 by HisExcellency

Harish, an Indian blaming Pakistan for creating the Kashmir problem in 1989 is no saner than a Pakistani claiming that India created the Bangladesh problem in 1970.

Yaar I didn`t blame Pakistan for creating the problem, just for turning the problem into a vicious and bloody one.

India losts its izzat the day it forced its Muslim citizens to sing the Vande Matram and bow before the statue of a certain politician Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, who liked people to treat him like a god.

Are you talking through your hat? Can you please providence evidence to back your statements? Or is it something that you are taught in your text books? Who forced whom to sing the Vandemataram and when did Gandhi ask to be treated as god?

The provinces consituting Pakistan today were part of the Indus civilization that were forcibly occupied by the British in 19th century.

There you go again putting the usual spin on to India`s identity. Not that I care much.

Just like the courses of these great rivers don`t meet, our histories, religions and traditions also don`t meet.

Well, I`m glad the way it is and I`m sure a majority of Indians think like me. After all, I would hate to see Indians associated with terrorism and being subjected to inhuman cavity searches.

Amidst all this, you haven`t bothered to answer my question. I repeat it here:

Why are the ``non-puppet`` candidates in Azad Kashmir required to swear allegiance to Pakistan by signing an undertaking in the nomination form which states that he/she whole-heartedly supports the accession of J&K to Pakistan? Amanullah Khan of the JKLF was refused to contest elections because he refused to sign this undertaking.

sanatani #84, {``Saligram is another name for Bhagwan Shri Krishn and sir lamentably if Ishwar and Allah were one tab to koi fight he nahin thi. ``}

Sanatani bhai,
Then I am honored to be called Saligram. :) That`s right, God, Allah, Ishwar, Khuda, Yahveh, Elohim, and other nomenclatures are indicating the same Almighty Creator. Fight ki koi wajah nahin thi or nahin he. It`s like fighting over who has the best parents? Thanks

Aslam Bhai #85 {``salim i agree with you that biharis should be brought to pakistan, it`s despicable the way they`ve been treated by the ruling elite. compare this to uk`s offer to take 50000 mirpuris displaced by mangla dam.``}

Aslam Bhai,
Now we are getting somewhere. Several kind and compassionate people are coming out and supporting this worthwhile cause that is a blight on the flag of Pakistan and the meaning of Islam. Thank you and please bring this up in every forum that you join. May God bless you for your conscience. Ameen.

Aslam Bhai #85 {``salim i agree with you that biharis should be brought to pakistan, it`s despicable the way they`ve been treated by the ruling elite. compare this to uk`s offer to take 50000 mirpuris displaced by mangla dam.``}

Aslam Bhai,
Now we are getting somewhere. Several kind and compassionate people are coming out and supporting this worthwhile cause that is a blight on the flag of Pakistan and the meaning of Islam. Thank you and please bring this up in every forum that you join. May God bless you for your conscience. Ameen.

salim-chuhan and others
salim i agree with you that biharis should be brought to pakistan, it`s despicable the way they`ve been treated by the ruling elite. compare this to uk`s offer to take 50000 mirpuris displaced by mangla dam.

Re: # 64

Salim ji,

Saligram is another name for Bhagwan Shri Krishn and sir lamentably if Ishwar and Allah were one tab to koi fight he nahin thi.

Regards
Sanatani

P.S. maybe we wcould consider you as Salim only as we took Adnan Sami

hshahbaz #71 {``Mr. Salim Chauhan, i really do hope that one day you would overcome your insecurities as a Mohajir who still feels he does not belong to the country ...I know that the mohajir`s trust has been badly hurt by the punjabis which has been a big mistake but we all have to rise above this mistrust in order to survive.

Shahbaz Sahib,
Very sincere and extremely wise words. You and Mantolives Bhai are two of the extremely few Pakistani Punjabis who have expressed such compassion and goodwill. That is all that would have been necessary to reassure the Bengalis in 1971, the Mohajirs in 1973, 1986, 1989, 1990, and 1991 and the Baluchis in the 70s and even now. You have to be a real minority to understand the meaning of insecurity. When your own soldiers occupy your own city to shoot your people, it is bound to make any loyal citizen rather insecure and less loyal. Decent Pakistani Punjabis have never realized the hatred their soldiers are spreading all over Pakistan at their expense.

Even here on Chowk, we are hearing hateful words and profanity hurled by several Pakistani Punjabis at Mohajirs and some find it humorous to ridicule the misfortunes of the ``stranded`` Pakistanis in Bangladesh. Somehow, they think that by calling them ``Biharis,`` the problem is diminished as one afflicting a lower race of people. While we are on the topic of oppression, it`s about time that Punjabis did the right thing and repeal those stupid laws that discriminate against Ahmadis. They are your own, hard-working, Punjabis who have always been loyal Pakistanis and yes, good Muslims. By the way, I reiterate that I am neither Bihari nor an Ahmedi - certain Pakistani Punjabis have found it convenient to label me as such, again to somehow demean my stance. They feel that if you stand up for an issue, then you must have a dog in the race.

Lastly, Pakistani Punjabis need to understand Mohajirs` way of thinking. During the recent earthquake, the people of Karachi, mostly Mohajirs, outdid themselves in donating, collecting, and sending relief supplies to the earthquake-stricken areas. Very few Mohajirs have relatives or friends among the quake victims, but they were not propelled by any association other than humanitarian and Muslim, and yes, Pakistani. Isn`t it about time that Punjabis displayed some compassion for fellow Muslims and fellow Pakis and did the right thing in bringing home these unfortunate victims from Bangladesh? Nothing less will be enough to redeem our religion and our nation. Thanks.

#77 His Excellency {``And it taught us never to forget that we are Pakistanis and Muslims first... and Punjabis, Sindhis, Mohajirs and Baluchis later.``}

We can start by not forgetting to bring the 300,000 ``stranded`` Pakistani Muslims from BD. :)

#79, His Excellency {``Most Urdu-speaking refugees migrated to Karachi ``}

As pointed out by rf786 below in #78, the Urdu-speakers were not welcome in West Punjab. This fact has been detailed earlier on Chowk by another person who described how Mohajirs from Delhi and western UP were simply led by Punjabi authorities to waiting trains for Karachi. Only Punjabi-speaking East Punjabis were allowed to stay in Punjab en masse.

#77 His Excellency {``This is why we islamized our Army, fought the Russians alongside our Afghan brothers, built a nuclear bomb and shared power with MQM,``}

Sir, do you call the events of 1989, 1990, 1991 spearheaded by BB and NS ``sharing of power?`` I was a little kid then and to this day I am terrified with that ``power sharing.`` But, yes, it was A. Q. Khan, another Mohajir from Bhopal, who built the nuclear bomb for Pakistan. How many A. Q. Khans are living in misery in Bangladesh and how many will convert to Christianity or forced into prostitution to survive?

rf786 #78,
Thank you for correcting the chronology of events - some people forget how we got here.

#76 His Excellency {``Poor Biharis have waited 35 years already. They can wait another 10-15 years too. It is also in their interest to return when they`ll be welcomed with open arms.``}

Suppose you go to Bangladesh and give these people the good news that they can return to their country in 10-15 years, Inshallah. The reason for this additional delay is that Pakis are working diligently to give them a great economy with good jobs schools and healthcare when they arrive. Plus it will take that long just to train the marching band for the reception. I suppose Tahmed4, if he is still alive by then, will personally bestow garlands around the neck of each arriving Bihari. By that time there should be only 200,000 left. A man dying of thirst is not impressed by your claim that if he is patient for a few more weeks, he can drink from a golden cup that you have just sent an errand boy after.

rf786 #75, {``Incorrect, this is just another manufactured myth to protect Nehru`s hidden private life as a full blown faggot. Lord Mount-Bat- ten met Nehrujee when posted in Singapore, it was love at first sight for both, Lady Mountbatten was just the side dish used as a cover for these two closet gays. ``}

Now why don`t they teach this important stuff in schools? More importantly, if Jinnah had pictures on the two of them and didn`t use them for Pakistan`s benefits, I am going to be mad as hell. Just wait till I make my next trip to Karachi.

#74, His Excellency {``So in your opinion any Sindhi who opposes repatriation of Biharis is a terrorist??``}
No, but any Sindhi (or Punjabi for that matter) who opposes the repatriation of ``stranded`` Pakis in Bangladesh is not sincere, not compassionate, not a real Muslim, not a good Paki, and should be stripped and flooged in public with wet sawayyaaN until he learns how to be more humane, a better Muslim and a loyal Paki. When you flog Tahmed3, please make sure that the sawayyaaN are extra crispy.

#73, His Excellency {``I have a counter question: What has India gained from occupying Kashmir during the last 60 years? If suppressing Kashmiri Muslims makes India more secure and stable, then this policy should indeed be continued ad infinitum. But if this policy creates terrorism & communal strife (Gujrat, Babri mosque, Bombay riots) within India, then this policy must be revised in the larger interest of India.``}

Let me answer it from an Indian perspective. The legitimate ruler of the Princely State of Jammu and Kashmir, Maharaja Hari Singh, signed the instrument of accession to India. The rules of partition left this decision to each individual ruler with the provision that he take the wishes of his subjects into account. The Maharaja will say that he did exactly that.

Now, Kashmir is a very important part of India`s political existence. As the only Muslim majority state, it reinforces the concepts of diversity and democracy in India, and frankly, if successful, this approach nullifies the need for partition in 1947. A Muslim province, ruled by democratically-elected Muslim politicians, loyal to the Indian Union is a powerful message to the world and counters Pakistan`s existence to any impartial and logical mind.

The problems of Babri Masjid, Gujrat, and Bombay riots are not even remotely associated with Kashmir. However, they are definitely a legacy of the 1947 cruelty of partition. As I said in my post, bringing 5 million Kashmiri Muslims into Pakistan will still leave 115 million Muslims in India - not that anyone in Punjab or Sindh cares.

#72 His Excellency {``Indian Muslims will only suffer if Kashmir`s independence is achieved through the gun. A negotiated settlement, on the other hand, will satisfy the humanitarian problem of Kashmir, build a durable relationship between India and Pakistan, and harmonize the relationship between Hindus and Muslims.``}

I have a better suggestion. It`s called reunification. In one fell swoop we solve Kashmir, the Indus and tributaries` water problem (which after all is the main issue for Punjab and we should forget all this pro-Kashmiri Muslim crap, please), lack of democratic and secular institutions, and defense overspending.

``What has India gained from occupying Kashmir during the last 60 years? ``

Simple.....a free India rejects TNT.........

re: #78

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Economic imbalance cud have been corrected by opening schools in poor localities, setting up businesses in the interior, diversifying the economy and not murdering it by nationalizing industries and banks
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In hindsight, nationalization was a mistake. But it was a popular one. Zulfikar Ali Bhutto won a heavy mandate in West Pakistan from a socialist platform. And he wasn`t even Punjabi.

Schools create employable people, but not (enough) employment. For that you need infrastructure projects, which is what Pakistan did during the 1960s and 70s. Organizations like PTCL, WAPDA, PIA, Railways, OGDC, SGNPL, SGSPL, ADBP and Steel Mills were created during this era to create employment for both white collar and blue collar workers. Many Mohajirs got jobs through these organizations.

re: #78

FYI, Punjab was the breadbasket of British India. The British built the most extensive canal system in the world to produce wheat, rice and cotton not only for its troops but also the rest of India. In addition, there were dozens of stud farms (called Remount Depots) across upper Punjab that were used for training the horseback regiments of Police and military.

To manage the revenue from these enterprises, the British recruited thousands of landlords into the British Indian Army and made them tax collectors. This military-agriculture complex created enormous wealth not only for the British but also for the Legharis, Tiwanas, Noons, Daultanas and Sahibzadas who swore loyalty to the British. Although this wealth was concentrated in few hands, at the time of partition, there was enough to feed to the millions of refugees who poured into Lahore.

Most Urdu-speaking refugees migrated to Karachi not because Punjab didn`t have jobs... but because these jobs were agrarian, whereas the Urdu-speaking refugees sought white collar private sector and government jobs that only Karachi could offer. Very soon Karachi become overpopulated.

Re: # 76
HE
Some historical perspective please, APMSO came into being well after the Jeay Sindh, Pushtun Students (PSF), Baluch Students (BSF) and Punjabi students federation. All these student parties were active in Karachi educational institutions while the urdu speaking students wud congregate with JTI or the leftist/liberals. While the four provinces had their active ethnic political parties and were accepted by the major parties, urdu speaking boys and girls were marginalized to mainstream political parties. Not only did these ethnic parties support their kin, they openly differentiated against the urdu speaking population of karachi and hyderabad. Bhutto made it ever more easier to discriminate against the urdu speaking population by imposing quotas in universities and jobs and pursueing policies of disenfranchising mohajirs.

If Punjab was such a huge surplus economy, then why did all migrants come to karachi? Three reasons: Karachi had a small but diverse population, being the capital became the obvious choice for migrants and finally Punjab was unwilling to accept migrants. This economic story holds no water because Pakistan at the time of partition had no economy, everything started from the scratch and was helped in early days by the nawab of junagadh, Habib family and other rich Mohajir families.

Economic imbalance cud have been corrected by opening schools in poor localities, setting up businesses in the interior, diversifying the economy and not murdering it by nationalizing industries and banks. Fact is,such ideas reek of racial tensions and used to suppress minorities.