16% UK Muslims Stand by London Bombers
Irena Akbar July 4, 2006
#1 Posted by Aangaara on July 4, 2006 10:13:18 am
Well what the headline means is that 16 out of 100 muslims in great britain only need a teeny weeny bit of convincing to strap bombs around their chest. This is a major cause of concern, why isnt the 84% concerned about this? I mean the 84% should be happy that someone carried this study out. and also thankful to the newspaper that brought it to their attention. so that they can confront the 16% in every way possible.
but then NOOOOOOO the 84% has to start whining and has to lament the fact that kay kya hua agar kuch angraiz murr gai, hum nay tu nahi maray. hum tu peaceful hain kyoon key islam means peace.
but then NOOOOOOO the 84% has to start whining and has to lament the fact that kay kya hua agar kuch angraiz murr gai, hum nay tu nahi maray. hum tu peaceful hain kyoon key islam means peace.
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#2 Posted by kabuliwallah on July 4, 2006 11:17:41 am
How does chowk print this tripe on the front page?...if it wasn`t for the media the Godhra riots would not have received the worldwide attention that it did...remember the guy pleading for his life with folded hands?...I remember seeing the pic in quite a few Indian newspapers...come on lady, be a little objective...and you are supposed to be a journalist?...agreed the govt. in Gujarat and in India then and now is scum...but I think the media in India other than the tabloid types that you mention are quite responsible...the `most and second most read newspapers` means didly...if that were the case, tabloids would be the most widely read newspapers around the world...Hindu and the Indian Express are India`s best newspapers...your argument is similar to Ayaz Amir`s who constantly is crying foul over Hindustan Times headlines...yes, Hindustan frikking Times....that piece of govt. ass wipe...same goes for Times of India...maybe the author should try reading Hindu and its fortnightly The Frontier more often
#3 Posted by arjun_m on July 4, 2006 11:24:12 am
Agreed 16 per cent is a large chunk of people and 36 per cent is even larger but isn`t 64 per cent the largest of all and that it deserves to be the headline?
``95% of non-muslims don`t support terrorism`` wouldn`t make the news because it`s a dog bites man kind of a story..it`s expected that a large majority of people don`t support terrorism..nothing newsworthy about it..
While it might be inconvenient to the muslim community, the fact that 1 out of 6 brit-muslims is a potential London bomber is news..
A large number of muslims condone or support the London bombers and this writer claims victim-hood for the poor oppressed muslim community? Typical of the ostrich attitude that created the london bombers...
#4 Posted by iron_mask on July 4, 2006 11:47:29 am
so here is The Times from london (check it website)
Times poll reveals divided loyalties as Muslim soldier dies fighting Taleban
A SIGNIFICANT minority of British Muslims believe they are at war with the rest of society, the largest poll of Muslims in this country suggests.
nothing new in the headlines.
I would be worried about these 16%+the other 25% who sympathise with these guys
> for they cause more mayhem then the rest. all it takes is for a few numbskulls to strap themselves with bombs and the rest of the muslim population to support them overtly or covertly. In fact I would say that almost every muslim in the west supports these activities either covertly or overtly, directly or intellectualises them rationalises these insane activities. That is the owrrisome thing.
Muslims have to reform themselves before they can point a finger at others. (ali d Shah`s article on FP is a very good start here).
Times poll reveals divided loyalties as Muslim soldier dies fighting Taleban
A SIGNIFICANT minority of British Muslims believe they are at war with the rest of society, the largest poll of Muslims in this country suggests.
nothing new in the headlines.
I would be worried about these 16%+the other 25% who sympathise with these guys
> for they cause more mayhem then the rest. all it takes is for a few numbskulls to strap themselves with bombs and the rest of the muslim population to support them overtly or covertly. In fact I would say that almost every muslim in the west supports these activities either covertly or overtly, directly or intellectualises them rationalises these insane activities. That is the owrrisome thing.
Muslims have to reform themselves before they can point a finger at others. (ali d Shah`s article on FP is a very good start here).
#5 Posted by arjun_m on July 4, 2006 11:52:10 am
#6 Posted by arjun_m on July 4, 2006 11:56:16 am
well..lookie here..more bias against brit-muslims..bias = facts that contradict the self-held brit-paki worldview or brit-pakis as innocent victims being kept down by the system..
Nearly two fifths (37 per cent) believe that the Jewish community in Britain is a legitimate target “as part of the ongoing struggle for justice in the Middle East”.
Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK
Poll shows Muslims in Britain are the most anti-western in Europe
Nearly two fifths (37 per cent) believe that the Jewish community in Britain is a legitimate target “as part of the ongoing struggle for justice in the Middle East”.
Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK
Poll shows Muslims in Britain are the most anti-western in Europe
#7 Posted by aslam644 on July 4, 2006 1:00:26 pm
there has been some positive developments as well, there is a big recruitment drive for `muslim james bonds` as well as for police force. the tourist industry in london has suffered, according to my brother inlaw who has a business in rich arab ghetto of edgeware rd, even the russian prostitutes are whining business is so bad.
#8 Posted by echoboom on July 4, 2006 1:01:46 pm
The Secularoons, Liberaloons, & munafiquoons will hobble towards the dustbin of history to meet communism, capitalism, socialism, communism & any or all westoxicated ``philosophies`` rotting there.
France , the womb of secularism has now whimpered down to be a crucible; good for now, but a total erasure & eradication of any Secularoon, Liberaloon, and Munafiquoon is a must.
France`s policy of church-state separation is reflected in declining Christian church attendance, while many of its Muslims hold their faith close
By Tom Hundley
Tribune foreign correspondent
Published June 19, 2006
PARIS --
Al Fath Mosque is in a scruffy immigrant neighborhood not far from the neon-lit kitsch of Pigalle. On Friday afternoons the mosque is jammed, and the overflow of worshipers--all men--spills into the streets.
Tourists who stumble on the scene reflexively reach for their cameras, struck by this unusual public manifestation of religiosity in a country where Christian belief has become passe.
In France and in almost every other European country, Christianity appears to be in a free fall. Although up to 88 percent of the French identify themselves as Roman Catholic, only about 5 percent go to church on most Sundays; 60 percent say they ``never`` or ``practically never`` go.
But Islam is a thriving force. The 12 million to 15 million Muslims who live in Europe make up less than 5 percent of the total population, but the vitality of their faith has led some experts to predict that Islam will become the continent`s dominant faith.
Princeton University historian Bernard Lewis, the dean of American Middle East scholars, flatly predicts that Europe will be Islamic by the end of this century ``at the very latest.``
George Weigel, a leading American theologian, frets about ``a Europe in which the muezzin summons the faithful to prayer from the central loggia of St. Peter`s in Rome, while Notre Dame has been transformed into Hagia Sophia on the Seine--a great Christian church become an Islamic museum.``
Lewis and Weigel represent a trend among American thinkers who say they fear Europe`s doom if it does not re-Christianize, and soon. Most European experts believe those fears are exaggerated.
France, with Europe`s largest Muslim population, surely will be a test case.
There is little argument about the severity of the crisis facing the Catholic Church in France. In contrast with the vigorous --and masculine--face that French Muslims present to the world, a typical Sunday mass almost anywhere in France will feature an elderly priest ministering to a dwindling congregation of mostly elderly women.
``Mass is boring,`` said Odon Vallet, a religion professor at the Sorbonne. ``The ceremony isn`t very beautiful; the music is bad; the sermon is uninteresting. Mass is for people who have nothing else to do on a Sunday--no sports, no hobbies, no shopping, no entertainment.``
Islam, meanwhile, is France`s fastest-growing religion. But this is mainly a result of immigration patterns, not conversions. Most of the 4.5 million Muslims who are about 7 percent of France`s population are immigrants or the descendants of immigrants from former French colonies in North Africa and sub-Saharan Africa.
Global Islam is eager for converts. But in Europe, the situation is nuanced. According to Olivier Roy, a leading French scholar on Islam, Muslims in Europe would be happy for Christians to convert while Christians merely want Muslims to become more secular.
Muslim affirms identity
For Rachid, a 22-year-old Moroccan who smuggled himself into France a year ago, Al Fath Mosque offers a kind of surrogate family and support network in an unfamiliar land. Five times each day, he stops by to pray, fulfilling one of the most important duties of a Muslim.
``It helps me keep my Moroccan identity,`` said Rachid, whose last name is being withheld because he is in France illegally. ``If I had to give up Islam to be French, I would never do it.``
Although a few militant fundamentalists insist otherwise, most European Muslims say Islam is compatible with their life in the West.
Adel Remdannie, 28, a security guard at a department store, said he wants Islam to be seen as a ``normal`` religion. French-born of Algerian heritage, Remdannie prays at Al Fath ``three or four times a week and on Friday always.``
``People think Islam is dangerous. They see us [at Friday prayers] and they think we are extremists. But for us, praying is a normal thing. My parents go to prayers. I go to prayers. It is how we follow our religion,`` he said.
Despite the overflow at Al Fath, surveys suggest that the percentage of Muslims attending Friday prayers is not much higher than that of French Catholics who go to Sunday mass.
The image of jampacked mosques is a ``trompe l`oeil,`` said Roy, the Islamic scholar. ``You have many millions of square meters of churches in France, but only a few thousand square meters of mosques.``
France , the womb of secularism has now whimpered down to be a crucible; good for now, but a total erasure & eradication of any Secularoon, Liberaloon, and Munafiquoon is a must.
A crucible for secularism
France`s policy of church-state separation is reflected in declining Christian church attendance, while many of its Muslims hold their faith close
By Tom Hundley
Tribune foreign correspondent
Published June 19, 2006
PARIS --
Al Fath Mosque is in a scruffy immigrant neighborhood not far from the neon-lit kitsch of Pigalle. On Friday afternoons the mosque is jammed, and the overflow of worshipers--all men--spills into the streets.
Tourists who stumble on the scene reflexively reach for their cameras, struck by this unusual public manifestation of religiosity in a country where Christian belief has become passe.
In France and in almost every other European country, Christianity appears to be in a free fall. Although up to 88 percent of the French identify themselves as Roman Catholic, only about 5 percent go to church on most Sundays; 60 percent say they ``never`` or ``practically never`` go.
But Islam is a thriving force. The 12 million to 15 million Muslims who live in Europe make up less than 5 percent of the total population, but the vitality of their faith has led some experts to predict that Islam will become the continent`s dominant faith.
Princeton University historian Bernard Lewis, the dean of American Middle East scholars, flatly predicts that Europe will be Islamic by the end of this century ``at the very latest.``
George Weigel, a leading American theologian, frets about ``a Europe in which the muezzin summons the faithful to prayer from the central loggia of St. Peter`s in Rome, while Notre Dame has been transformed into Hagia Sophia on the Seine--a great Christian church become an Islamic museum.``
Lewis and Weigel represent a trend among American thinkers who say they fear Europe`s doom if it does not re-Christianize, and soon. Most European experts believe those fears are exaggerated.
France, with Europe`s largest Muslim population, surely will be a test case.
There is little argument about the severity of the crisis facing the Catholic Church in France. In contrast with the vigorous --and masculine--face that French Muslims present to the world, a typical Sunday mass almost anywhere in France will feature an elderly priest ministering to a dwindling congregation of mostly elderly women.
``Mass is boring,`` said Odon Vallet, a religion professor at the Sorbonne. ``The ceremony isn`t very beautiful; the music is bad; the sermon is uninteresting. Mass is for people who have nothing else to do on a Sunday--no sports, no hobbies, no shopping, no entertainment.``
Islam, meanwhile, is France`s fastest-growing religion. But this is mainly a result of immigration patterns, not conversions. Most of the 4.5 million Muslims who are about 7 percent of France`s population are immigrants or the descendants of immigrants from former French colonies in North Africa and sub-Saharan Africa.
Global Islam is eager for converts. But in Europe, the situation is nuanced. According to Olivier Roy, a leading French scholar on Islam, Muslims in Europe would be happy for Christians to convert while Christians merely want Muslims to become more secular.
Muslim affirms identity
For Rachid, a 22-year-old Moroccan who smuggled himself into France a year ago, Al Fath Mosque offers a kind of surrogate family and support network in an unfamiliar land. Five times each day, he stops by to pray, fulfilling one of the most important duties of a Muslim.
``It helps me keep my Moroccan identity,`` said Rachid, whose last name is being withheld because he is in France illegally. ``If I had to give up Islam to be French, I would never do it.``
Although a few militant fundamentalists insist otherwise, most European Muslims say Islam is compatible with their life in the West.
Adel Remdannie, 28, a security guard at a department store, said he wants Islam to be seen as a ``normal`` religion. French-born of Algerian heritage, Remdannie prays at Al Fath ``three or four times a week and on Friday always.``
``People think Islam is dangerous. They see us [at Friday prayers] and they think we are extremists. But for us, praying is a normal thing. My parents go to prayers. I go to prayers. It is how we follow our religion,`` he said.
Despite the overflow at Al Fath, surveys suggest that the percentage of Muslims attending Friday prayers is not much higher than that of French Catholics who go to Sunday mass.
The image of jampacked mosques is a ``trompe l`oeil,`` said Roy, the Islamic scholar. ``You have many millions of square meters of churches in France, but only a few thousand square meters of mosques.``
#9 Posted by Aangaara on July 4, 2006 1:26:55 pm
Re: # 8
thus spake a member of the munafiqoon
who is making a living in the land of the secularoon
and out of excitement is peeing in his patloon.
{Princeton University historian Bernard Lewis, the dean of American Middle East scholars, flatly predicts that Europe will be Islamic by the end of this century ``at the very latest.``}
lol we talking about humans or rabbits?
thus spake a member of the munafiqoon
who is making a living in the land of the secularoon
and out of excitement is peeing in his patloon.
{Princeton University historian Bernard Lewis, the dean of American Middle East scholars, flatly predicts that Europe will be Islamic by the end of this century ``at the very latest.``}
lol we talking about humans or rabbits?
#10 Posted by rf786 on July 4, 2006 1:29:07 pm
Dear writer,
16% by your own admission is a significant number particulalry when that segment is capable of carrying out vicious crimes such as 7/7 or 9/11.
Probably the headlines sud have read: ``why does 64% remain silent?`` Our problem lies in our inadequate response to these criminals, press prints what is basically popular and 16% is significant for those sharing accomidations with these (16%) loonie bins.
16% by your own admission is a significant number particulalry when that segment is capable of carrying out vicious crimes such as 7/7 or 9/11.
Probably the headlines sud have read: ``why does 64% remain silent?`` Our problem lies in our inadequate response to these criminals, press prints what is basically popular and 16% is significant for those sharing accomidations with these (16%) loonie bins.
#11 Posted by Aangaara on July 4, 2006 1:34:32 pm
Why is it that muslims have to whine so much? whine whine whine, why dont they let us kill them? whine whine whine they steel our oil. whine whine whine wo got bistofied because someone made cartoons. GROW UP people. whats wrong with u guys?
#12 Posted by rf786 on July 4, 2006 2:09:37 pm
Re: # 11
only person whinning here is uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.....whiner.....muslims this, muslims that...go choke on your own vomit u moron, its bigots like u who are no different from the same bigots u claim are whiners....
only person whinning here is uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.....whiner.....muslims this, muslims that...go choke on your own vomit u moron, its bigots like u who are no different from the same bigots u claim are whiners....
#13 Posted by Aangaara on July 4, 2006 2:23:17 pm
lol how old did u say you were mr bismillah? oh never mind u guys stop growing up after u learn to say the kalima.
anyways I think I inadvertantly pissed off a secular muslim an oxymoron that is. I am sorry if you didnt like my jocular tone, I was only trying to lift up ur spirits.
anyways I think I inadvertantly pissed off a secular muslim an oxymoron that is. I am sorry if you didnt like my jocular tone, I was only trying to lift up ur spirits.
#14 Posted by drsohail on July 4, 2006 2:39:01 pm
Dear Irena...
While I was studying the psychology of religious people I came across Dr. Robert
Buckman`s book CAN WE BE GOOD WITHOUT GOD? in which he quotes studies that are
fascinating. In one study of students showed that 7% or religious people were willing to
give or take lives...one in fourteen....for the sake of their religion and ideology. I
sometimes wonder when idea becomes an ideology and philosohy becomes a religion
then people who follow it have a tendency to think and act irrationally and make choices
that might be dangerous for them and the community.
Being a psychotherapist and humanist I believe that any human being who is willing to kill
himself...herself....others is not mentally healthy. I think religion and nationalism are two
main ideologies that justify and rationalize violence....whether it is army of nationalism
or religious jihad or crusade....all are dangerous for humanity. I believe every human
being is sacred.
sincerely sohail
While I was studying the psychology of religious people I came across Dr. Robert
Buckman`s book CAN WE BE GOOD WITHOUT GOD? in which he quotes studies that are
fascinating. In one study of students showed that 7% or religious people were willing to
give or take lives...one in fourteen....for the sake of their religion and ideology. I
sometimes wonder when idea becomes an ideology and philosohy becomes a religion
then people who follow it have a tendency to think and act irrationally and make choices
that might be dangerous for them and the community.
Being a psychotherapist and humanist I believe that any human being who is willing to kill
himself...herself....others is not mentally healthy. I think religion and nationalism are two
main ideologies that justify and rationalize violence....whether it is army of nationalism
or religious jihad or crusade....all are dangerous for humanity. I believe every human
being is sacred.
sincerely sohail
#15 Posted by PM on July 4, 2006 3:12:53 pm
Author, are you for real?!?
Duh!!! If you don`t think it`s abso-freakin-lutely shocking that 16% of UK Muslims (not even Palestinian, or Chechnian, but freakin UK Muslims!!) sympathize with the suicide bombers who were willing to take the lives of innocent, defenseless civilians, there is something seroiusly -- shockingly -- wrong with you!!
I am tempted to believe you`re not for real... probably someone trying to give Muslims a bad name or look like perennial crybabies (``oh look how the evil western press demonizes us Muslims-- I mean, whats so wrong about a sixth of us supporting bombing innocent commuters, eh?``)
Sheesh!!!
Yes, you have a valid point that the Press is biased. You`ve just chosen a horrible instance to try to exemplify this bias. Frankly, I despair for the future if so-called educated people think (or fail to, actually) like you!
Duh!!! If you don`t think it`s abso-freakin-lutely shocking that 16% of UK Muslims (not even Palestinian, or Chechnian, but freakin UK Muslims!!) sympathize with the suicide bombers who were willing to take the lives of innocent, defenseless civilians, there is something seroiusly -- shockingly -- wrong with you!!
I am tempted to believe you`re not for real... probably someone trying to give Muslims a bad name or look like perennial crybabies (``oh look how the evil western press demonizes us Muslims-- I mean, whats so wrong about a sixth of us supporting bombing innocent commuters, eh?``)
Sheesh!!!
Yes, you have a valid point that the Press is biased. You`ve just chosen a horrible instance to try to exemplify this bias. Frankly, I despair for the future if so-called educated people think (or fail to, actually) like you!
#16 Posted by PM on July 4, 2006 3:29:13 pm
If tomorrow a poll was conducted and it was found that 20% of respondents favoured honour killings, the popular press should joyfully herald the fact that -- phew!!-- 80% actually think it`s all right, right Ms Akbar?
It`s only a press intent on demonizing a section of society that should bother to report on the mere 20% that say it`s okay to kill one`s daughter for honour, even living in say, Denmark.
What is shocking is that chowk thought this article printworthy. It`s sole merit is in what it might offer as insight into some supposedly educated UK Muslims` minds.
Is the victim complex really this big among them?!?
It`s only a press intent on demonizing a section of society that should bother to report on the mere 20% that say it`s okay to kill one`s daughter for honour, even living in say, Denmark.
What is shocking is that chowk thought this article printworthy. It`s sole merit is in what it might offer as insight into some supposedly educated UK Muslims` minds.
Is the victim complex really this big among them?!?
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