Chowk Staff July 11, 2006
#490 Posted by tahmed32 on July 15, 2006 12:52:48 pm
PewResearch #485 They need a few good men like you at the Indian Ministry of Information. (Arjun can provide you the application forms).
After all....you have all the talent:
1. Make an assertion, deflect any obvious question to this assertion, then repeat the assertion along with a jumble of hot air. Demonstration of your talent:
Your Initial assertion: The issue here is not just Pakistan`s right to defend to an unprovoked attack, but rather `grave provocation of a neighbor while exercising the right to defend by nuclear weapons`.
My response: ``answer me this simple question: If the Indian government seriously believes that there is adequate ``grave provocation``, then why does it not take its case to the United Nations and demand the right to invade Pakistan? or even demand international pressure on Pakistan to let go its nuclear defense??``
Your answer: All I am seeking to determine is if you think that Pakistan`s strategy of promoting and exporting terror while using a nuclear shield is something that you support. and then later on you continue regarding one other unrelated issue that you have introduced the UN Charter gives nations `the right to self defense`. Resolutions are not needed. Provocative acts amounting to acts of war (e.g the types of activites your esteemed government is engaged in etc. etc. etc.)
Make stupid claims, then declare as ``laughable`` the logical implications of that claim.
Of course they are laughable, genius. You made them to begin with that the US should attack Pakistan consistent with its policy of attacking states that harbor terrorists - in which case the country with a state leader (Modi) who was denied a visa because the US recognizes him to be a terrorist would be the first one.
Congratulations on your new job!! Your job in the Ministry of Information is to fool 1 billion Indians with talk about Saintly India vs Evil Pakistan. I notice that there are many Indians who love such talk, so your job shouldnt be too hard.
Go for it. :-)
After all....you have all the talent:
1. Make an assertion, deflect any obvious question to this assertion, then repeat the assertion along with a jumble of hot air. Demonstration of your talent:
Your Initial assertion: The issue here is not just Pakistan`s right to defend to an unprovoked attack, but rather `grave provocation of a neighbor while exercising the right to defend by nuclear weapons`.
My response: ``answer me this simple question: If the Indian government seriously believes that there is adequate ``grave provocation``, then why does it not take its case to the United Nations and demand the right to invade Pakistan? or even demand international pressure on Pakistan to let go its nuclear defense??``
Your answer: All I am seeking to determine is if you think that Pakistan`s strategy of promoting and exporting terror while using a nuclear shield is something that you support. and then later on you continue regarding one other unrelated issue that you have introduced the UN Charter gives nations `the right to self defense`. Resolutions are not needed. Provocative acts amounting to acts of war (e.g the types of activites your esteemed government is engaged in etc. etc. etc.)
Make stupid claims, then declare as ``laughable`` the logical implications of that claim.
Of course they are laughable, genius. You made them to begin with that the US should attack Pakistan consistent with its policy of attacking states that harbor terrorists - in which case the country with a state leader (Modi) who was denied a visa because the US recognizes him to be a terrorist would be the first one.
Congratulations on your new job!! Your job in the Ministry of Information is to fool 1 billion Indians with talk about Saintly India vs Evil Pakistan. I notice that there are many Indians who love such talk, so your job shouldnt be too hard.
Go for it. :-)
#489 Posted by krishna_abcd on July 15, 2006 11:29:20 am
#476 by parthaab
It is because of left-wing traitors like yourself that these innocent people have lost their lives in Mumbai.
This kind of misfortune should happen to pseudo-intellectual, commie hypocritical traitors like yourself. But instead, innocent people lose their lives because of minority appeasing votebank politics that left-wing ba$tard politicians play. In this blast Bangladeshi radicals in Malad were involved - let into the country by the hypocritical, low-class lefty government in West Bengal for votebank politics reasons.
It is because of left-wing traitors like yourself that these innocent people have lost their lives in Mumbai.
This kind of misfortune should happen to pseudo-intellectual, commie hypocritical traitors like yourself. But instead, innocent people lose their lives because of minority appeasing votebank politics that left-wing ba$tard politicians play. In this blast Bangladeshi radicals in Malad were involved - let into the country by the hypocritical, low-class lefty government in West Bengal for votebank politics reasons.
#488 Posted by krishna_abcd on July 15, 2006 11:15:41 am
#483 by HisExcellency
I am 100% sure that you COMPLEEETELY missed my post #475. Simply didn`t see it, I`M SURE. Because responding to a foolish post like #475 would be mere CHILD`S PLAY to a formidable Chowk intellectual like yourself.
So I am hereby drawing your attention to that post. And waiting for a response.
Regards
I am 100% sure that you COMPLEEETELY missed my post #475. Simply didn`t see it, I`M SURE. Because responding to a foolish post like #475 would be mere CHILD`S PLAY to a formidable Chowk intellectual like yourself.
So I am hereby drawing your attention to that post. And waiting for a response.
Regards
#487 Posted by ballukhan on July 15, 2006 9:45:27 am
Re: # 477
``As for what India should do, they should openly support the return of democracy in Pakistan and follow it up with close relations with whoever emerges as the leader, even if it means interfering in internal affairs ... But then again, isn`t India on the receiving end of Pakistan`s `internal affairs`? ``
I have been shouting for such a pressure on Pakistan by india for a long time and there were hardly many who explicitly supported my contention......now this appears to be coming from Zeemax..............which is a little surprising welcome..........Pakistan`s is indeed searching for an identity minus India and India needs to exorcise institutions like Pakistani army whose existence and its rationale exists only in demonising India.............this can be done by diplomatically isolating Pakistani army Generals and telling the world community that it would hold talks ONLY with a fully civilian government with army under the control of civil authorities.........................
``As for what India should do, they should openly support the return of democracy in Pakistan and follow it up with close relations with whoever emerges as the leader, even if it means interfering in internal affairs ... But then again, isn`t India on the receiving end of Pakistan`s `internal affairs`? ``
I have been shouting for such a pressure on Pakistan by india for a long time and there were hardly many who explicitly supported my contention......now this appears to be coming from Zeemax..............which is a little surprising welcome..........Pakistan`s is indeed searching for an identity minus India and India needs to exorcise institutions like Pakistani army whose existence and its rationale exists only in demonising India.............this can be done by diplomatically isolating Pakistani army Generals and telling the world community that it would hold talks ONLY with a fully civilian government with army under the control of civil authorities.........................
#486 Posted by queen_cut_paste on July 15, 2006 7:58:51 am
Re: # 484
newspaper boy, those used your interact through oversight....they were meant for other interacts. #481 was specifically for you.
forget the those links - read around and see the tone being taken and look round you.
already there appears to be documented proof that your boy was caught with his pants down in bangalore (the HSBC fraud case) and was recruited by the ISI (see wirenews services buzzing with this). Added to this apparently there is proof of your footloose soldiers (and friends and kith and kin of the 3000 dead from kargil) doing the deeds in Mumbai.
The omens are not looking good. The bones are not falling in the right manner.
karachi, balochistan, yanks, brits, etc.....the western opinion is being got ready for the small pocket war south of the hindukush with karachi as one of the ports for a sea invasion!
newspaper boy, those used your interact through oversight....they were meant for other interacts. #481 was specifically for you.
forget the those links - read around and see the tone being taken and look round you.
already there appears to be documented proof that your boy was caught with his pants down in bangalore (the HSBC fraud case) and was recruited by the ISI (see wirenews services buzzing with this). Added to this apparently there is proof of your footloose soldiers (and friends and kith and kin of the 3000 dead from kargil) doing the deeds in Mumbai.
The omens are not looking good. The bones are not falling in the right manner.
karachi, balochistan, yanks, brits, etc.....the western opinion is being got ready for the small pocket war south of the hindukush with karachi as one of the ports for a sea invasion!
#485 Posted by PewResearch on July 15, 2006 7:22:08 am
Re: # 469 Tahmed
``What is this if not an assertion of India`s right to demand Pakistan let go of its nuclear defense.``
Calm down. All I am seeking to determine is if you think that Pakistan`s strategy of promoting and exporting terror while using a nuclear shield is something that you support. I am not asserting that Pakistan let go of its nuclear defense. Did I not say earlier `buy all the nukes that you want`? So, keep your nukes - let us not discuss this particular issue anymore.
The trouble is that you are knowingly and deliberately accepting Pakistan`s use of terror as an instrument of state policy.
You are equivocating on terror and nuclear defense. All you have to say is that you condemn terror and Pakistan`s provocative terror acts behind a nuclear shield. But you seem to be having a lot of trouble saying that (despite the laughable attempt to get me to express solidarity with you on vicitims of 7/11 which I did!). Your earlier pretensions of `solidarity with victimes of 7/11` strike hollow in light of the above, and you continue to bring in externalities into the discussion that are not germaine to the issue at hand.
Regarding one other unrelated issue that you have introduced the UN Charter gives nations `the right to self defense`. Resolutions are not needed. Provocative acts amounting to acts of war (e.g the types of activites your esteemed government is engaged in and the one that Condoleeza Rice referred to in her statements to the 9/11 Commission. I am sure that you recall the `friendly` conversation with `requests` that Colin Powell had with your honorable general on 9/12/01 where your pride notwithstanding (you had said `Pakistanis are a proud people and will not give in to ultimatums) , the General sucummbed and did just that). The UN already has passed a binding resolution calling on all member states to disband terror outfits or `coalitions of the willing` have the right to do the job. It specifically names Al Qaeda and Taliban. India does not need to introduce a resolution for political cover - the existing ones are enough. On Iraq the US went to the UN because the US wanted to implement a new doctrine of pre-emptive war, which the UN subsequently did even though the evidence of WMD, harboring terrorist organizations with global reach is much more substantial in the case of Pakistan than Iraq. Do you want to hear more? Why don`t you stick to the simple notion of being unequivocal on terror?
``By your logic, the US should be launching a pre-emptive strike on India first``. Come on Tahmed! You are old enough to be a grandfather. Even you know how silly and laughable this assertion is and you used it to point out deficiencies in my reasoning. I agree with you that the conclusion that you drew from my assertion is silly and laughable. But why did you do that? Now derive a more reasonable conclusion.
``What is this if not an assertion of India`s right to demand Pakistan let go of its nuclear defense.``
Calm down. All I am seeking to determine is if you think that Pakistan`s strategy of promoting and exporting terror while using a nuclear shield is something that you support. I am not asserting that Pakistan let go of its nuclear defense. Did I not say earlier `buy all the nukes that you want`? So, keep your nukes - let us not discuss this particular issue anymore.
The trouble is that you are knowingly and deliberately accepting Pakistan`s use of terror as an instrument of state policy.
You are equivocating on terror and nuclear defense. All you have to say is that you condemn terror and Pakistan`s provocative terror acts behind a nuclear shield. But you seem to be having a lot of trouble saying that (despite the laughable attempt to get me to express solidarity with you on vicitims of 7/11 which I did!). Your earlier pretensions of `solidarity with victimes of 7/11` strike hollow in light of the above, and you continue to bring in externalities into the discussion that are not germaine to the issue at hand.
Regarding one other unrelated issue that you have introduced the UN Charter gives nations `the right to self defense`. Resolutions are not needed. Provocative acts amounting to acts of war (e.g the types of activites your esteemed government is engaged in and the one that Condoleeza Rice referred to in her statements to the 9/11 Commission. I am sure that you recall the `friendly` conversation with `requests` that Colin Powell had with your honorable general on 9/12/01 where your pride notwithstanding (you had said `Pakistanis are a proud people and will not give in to ultimatums) , the General sucummbed and did just that). The UN already has passed a binding resolution calling on all member states to disband terror outfits or `coalitions of the willing` have the right to do the job. It specifically names Al Qaeda and Taliban. India does not need to introduce a resolution for political cover - the existing ones are enough. On Iraq the US went to the UN because the US wanted to implement a new doctrine of pre-emptive war, which the UN subsequently did even though the evidence of WMD, harboring terrorist organizations with global reach is much more substantial in the case of Pakistan than Iraq. Do you want to hear more? Why don`t you stick to the simple notion of being unequivocal on terror?
``By your logic, the US should be launching a pre-emptive strike on India first``. Come on Tahmed! You are old enough to be a grandfather. Even you know how silly and laughable this assertion is and you used it to point out deficiencies in my reasoning. I agree with you that the conclusion that you drew from my assertion is silly and laughable. But why did you do that? Now derive a more reasonable conclusion.
#484 Posted by omar_r_quraishi on July 15, 2006 7:07:18 am
quoting a website called worldthreats.com and aitimes has to be a sign of desperation queen
#483 Posted by HisExcellency on July 15, 2006 6:48:19 am
tahmed32 #459
``Time to bury the hatchet and move on to more productive things.``
Trade between India and Pakistan has quadrupled to $1B in the last 4 years, and Pakistan has dropped its plebiscite demand on Kashmir. Bus and train links have also increased. So clearly Pakistan govt has moved on to productive things.
But there are thousands of Kashmiris, Sikhs and other oppressed minorities in India that do not subscribe to this view. They would rather die fighting India than compromising on their political rights. These people do not take dictation from Pakistan or anyone else. If only 19 hijackers can kill 3000 people in New York, you can well imagine how dangerous a few thousand Kashmiri & Sikh militants can be for India.
``Time to bury the hatchet and move on to more productive things.``
Trade between India and Pakistan has quadrupled to $1B in the last 4 years, and Pakistan has dropped its plebiscite demand on Kashmir. Bus and train links have also increased. So clearly Pakistan govt has moved on to productive things.
But there are thousands of Kashmiris, Sikhs and other oppressed minorities in India that do not subscribe to this view. They would rather die fighting India than compromising on their political rights. These people do not take dictation from Pakistan or anyone else. If only 19 hijackers can kill 3000 people in New York, you can well imagine how dangerous a few thousand Kashmiri & Sikh militants can be for India.
#482 Posted by bjk on July 15, 2006 5:39:48 am
#480 Kati-chipkee-raanee
[Billionaires from Riyadh, Doha, Manamah, Dubai, etc entered Pakistan from the 1970s to shoot the endangered houbara to near-extinction.]
But Manto and Omar managed to survive!
#481 Posted by queen_cut_paste on July 15, 2006 5:23:21 am
Re: # 478
for a newspaper boy and a guy with the right connections you seem to be rather myopic Omar!
A quick look at the various write ups and the talk of the last few years would indicate to you that the pakistani goose is being readied to be cooked......already the Yanks roam the country with impugnity and dump bombs you pakistanis. The brits are on the border ...... no its not the Indians in afghanistan fool.
Yaah! yes, I forget the pakistani policy - hurt the friend of the Yanks so that the Yanks stop....think it will be no dice...the WASPs are out to get you. In all of this bombings in Israel, Mumbai etc, a lot of other things are developing. Occasionally it would help if you got your head out from that sand pit.....
for a newspaper boy and a guy with the right connections you seem to be rather myopic Omar!
A quick look at the various write ups and the talk of the last few years would indicate to you that the pakistani goose is being readied to be cooked......already the Yanks roam the country with impugnity and dump bombs you pakistanis. The brits are on the border ...... no its not the Indians in afghanistan fool.
Yaah! yes, I forget the pakistani policy - hurt the friend of the Yanks so that the Yanks stop....think it will be no dice...the WASPs are out to get you. In all of this bombings in Israel, Mumbai etc, a lot of other things are developing. Occasionally it would help if you got your head out from that sand pit.....
#480 Posted by queen_cut_paste on July 15, 2006 5:11:32 am
Re: # 479
Pakistan: The world`s next failed state
South Asia
Pakistan: The world`s next failed state?
Pakistan: In the Shadow of Jihad and Afghanistan, by Mary Anne Weaver
Reviewed by Sreeram Chaulia
Since September 11, 2001, no country has captured the attention of US policymakers and news analyzers as much as Pakistan. A plethora of current-affairs pundits in the United States, whose visions rarely crossed the Middle East, rediscovered forgotten Pakistan as it turned overnight from a ``peripheral`` state, in Richard Haas` foreign-policy priority classification, into a ``vital`` state for the conduct of the war on terrorism. Unlike these opportunist ``experts``, Mary Anne Weaver has written on Pakistan and its surrounding region for more than 20 years. She is rightfully a South Asia specialist, immensely experienced, possessing access to the most important movers and shakers of the region.
In the mold of CNN`s Anita Pratap, she has covered Pakistani and Afghan politics for The New Yorker with a blend of professionalism, courage and compassion, qualities on display in this new book that asks troubling questions about Pakistan`s stability as a state and reliability as a bulwark against militant Islam.
Profusion of drugs, arms, private militias, fundamentalist ideologies and sectarian violence has led to an ``accumulation of disorder in Pakistan such that it could well be the next Yugoslavia`` (p 7). Whichever place in Pakistan Weaver visited in 2001, ``there was a tangible fear that Pakistan was drifting, perhaps inexorably, toward chaos ... one of the most frightening places on Earth``. Weaver`s gut feeling expressed in the preface is that Pakistan`s structural weaknesses are so advanced that it ``could well become the world`s newest failed state - a failed state with nuclear weapons`` (p 10). The next major day of terror in the United States could also come from this combustible and volatile country, whose military rulers halfheartedly agreed to assist Washington against the Taliban when cornered with implied threats of diplomatic and aid embargo.
Weaver`s first chapter sketches President General Pervez Musharraf, the man who sits uneasily astride a ``country that is angry and out of control``. His dispute with Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif centered on Pakistan`s Kargil intrusion of 1999 into Jammu and Kashmir, which led to a quasi-war with India. Army chief Musharraf considered the misadventure a ``major tactical coup`` and was sore that Sharif ordered a withdrawal under US pressure. Musharraf`s hawkish anti-India tendencies were also revealed when his airplane was disallowed from landing in Karachi on Sharif`s order (October 1999), and the pilot informed him that the Indian city of Ahmadabad was open for an emergency stop. The ex-commando`s reply was brusque: ``We`re not going to India! Over my dead body will we land there!`` (p 15) According to one old Musharraf colleague, ``when India and Kashmir come up, he`s transformed into a hardline table-thumper``. Working his way up the army ladder, Musharraf spent his ``entire adult life battling India`` (p 28).
On the domestic front, his ``western cowboy`` image notwithstanding, Musharraf has been unable or unwilling to rein in the state-nurtured Islamist terrorist networks fanning jihads around the world. Weaver thinks it is the result of his power base, an army that is increasingly anti-American and fundamentalist. In his three-year reign, Musharraf has acquiesced recurrently to the pressures of the religious right. The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan labels him a ``silent spectator in the rise of the orthodox clergy and militant Islam`` (p 36). Before September 11, under Musharraf, Pakistan`s backing of the Taliban had risen to client-state proportions. In a face-to-face interview, Musharraf parried Weaver`s questions about the rise of fundamentalist forces, saying ``all this talk about madrassas teaching militancy is just hearsay``. Musharraf`s responses on squeezing Islamist extremism in Pakistan were ``unforthcoming, even misleading at times`` (p 39).
Chapter 2 recalls the fatal swing Pakistan took toward Kalashnikov and jihad culture under Musharraf`s mentor, General Zia-ul-Haq. Pakistan`s role as a frontline state in the first Afghan jihad, starting in 1980, resulted in a profligate slippage and diversion of arms, opium and oil from the US Central Intelligence Agency`s pipeline by the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI). Fifty percent of US arms (including 500 Stinger missiles) never reached the battlefields of Afghanistan. The US ``intentionally or not, launched Pan-Islam`s first holy war in eight centuries`` by massively aiding the ISI and its favorite Islamists. The lethal formula of parlaying popular unrest into holy wars, tested in Afghanistan, went on to be applied by the ISI in the Kashmir proxy war against India.
Zia`s militarization and his focus on jihad deepened anti-Punjabi fissures in Pakistani society. Weaver recounts a 1983 meeting with the leader of Sindhi separatism, G M Syed, in house prison. Question: ``Why are the Sindhis so angry?`` Answer: ``Because we are dominated by Zia`s Punjabis.`` One encounter with the powerful Khan of Kalat in Balochistan reinforced this deep sense of insecurity felt among minorities in Pakistan. ``Pakistani Army raided this very house. They took away my father. There were many more army operations - and then you ask us why we are anti-Pakistan`` (p 100).
Chapter 3 sojourns into the tribal areas of Balochistan, a fiercely independent and Islamist province of Pakistan. Of the 5,000 or more Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters who had slipped into Pakistan by March 2002, the majority sneaked in from Balochistan, adding to the ``returnees`` from the anti-Soviet jihad. The mass influx of Osama bin Laden supporters transformed Balochistan and its adjoining North West Frontier Province ``the world`s next Afghanistan`` (p 87). In Quetta`s Smugglers Bazaar, Weaver found dealers selling anti-tank rockets, launchers, AK-47s, light cannon, landmines and grenades. ``A bullet costs only one rupee; an egg costs two`` (p 118).
Anti-Pakistan secession movements are benefiting from the open availability of deadly arms. The leader of the rebellious Marri tribe, Humayun Khan, told Weaver, ``We`re being exploited and neglected. We`re bitter, we`re angry, we`re armed`` (p 106). Baloch music in the remote town of Turbat carried chants of ``May Allah curse the Pakistani government and martial law``. So suspicious are Baloch youth and nomads of Pakistani rulers that road-building personnel of the central government are pelted with rocks as an alleged part of a plot by Musharraf and the United States to take over the Makran coast.
Chapter 4 is an account of the Wahhabi Saudi Arabian sway over Pakistan, cultivated by both military and civilian governments in Islamabad. Through the medium of the houbara bustard bird, which is hunted rapaciously by Saudi elites in Pakistan, Weaver goes to the heart of Pakistan`s Arabic orientation.
Billionaires from Riyadh, Doha, Manamah, Dubai, etc entered Pakistan from the 1970s to shoot the endangered houbara to near-extinction. Agha Abedi, the Pakistani founder of Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI), arranged hunting outings for the sheikhs in return for walloping bank deposits. When the BCCI collapsed a few years ago, the question cropped up: ``How did Pakistan become so enmeshed with the interests of one bank?`` (p 134) Arab dignitaries who pumped wealth into the bank and greased the palms of Pakistani generals were given diplomatic immunity even when less powerful Pakistanis got arrested and prosecuted for houbara poaching. Conservationists view the non-application of environmental regulations on Arab guests as a case of sheer hypocrisy on the part of the government.
But there are profounder reasons for the exalted treatment of Arabs in Pakistan. As they have been doing in the rest of the Muslim world, Saudis are the primary financiers of Pakistan`s Sunni supremacists and Islamist terrorists. Besides funding the thousands of mujahideen and madrassas, they bankrolled the government of Pakistan with about US$3.5 billion in annual military and economic aid in Zia`s time. Pakistan`s emergence as the leading figure in the world of militant Islam owes a great deal to the oil wallahs from the Persian Gulf.
Chapter 5 takes a close personal look at Benazir Bhutto, the former prime minister, who now lives in exile in London. Weaver sees Benazir, the avowed secularist, as the incubator of the Taliban during her tenure in power. Musharraf, as Benazir`s director general of military operations, had helped her spawn the Taliban in the mid-`90s. Her inability to improve Pakistan`s appalling human-rights record on women and her reliance on religious motifs to survive in a highly conservative Islamic polity doomed her prime ministership. She had to cede control of Pakistan`s nuclear program, its high-risk policy in Afghanistan and the anti-Indian war in Kashmir to the generals. Her influence on the ISI was minimal, as the latter intervened in fundamentalist movements across the world.
Weaver remembers Benazir`s election rallies in Rawalpindi where her supporters fired AK-47s with gay abandon and sang, ``Listen, all you holy warriors.`` Benazir`s failure in politics is summed up in one sentence: ``Pakistan is not an easy country for anyone, let alone a woman, to rule`` (p 179). Her promise of ``breaking the stranglehold of the Islamic clerics`` never materialized.
Chapter 6 discusses the growing Talibanization of Pakistan, a process Weaver denotes as Afghanistan moving farther east into South Asia. Musharraf`s public rhetoric on dealing firmly with homegrown Islamist terrorists has not been accompanied by concrete actions, leading many in Washington to doubt how dependable and ally Pakistan can be.
Weaver reports seeing shops in Miram Shah, a tiny town of the Waziristan area, where for only $100, Taliban and al-Qaeda escapees were shaved, issued new sets of clothes and sent into major Pakistani cities with false identity papers. A few miles from there, in Parachinar, ``the mullahs announced to everyone assembled that they should kill Americans on sight`` (p 221).
Weaver personally received e-mails from publicly banned Pakistani terrorist claques ``informing us that they were going underground to regroup and that we would be receiving their new e-mail addresses and websites`` (p 222). Osama bin Laden underwent dialysis treatment in a military hospital in Rawalpindi and, according to Afghan intelligence, was under the protection of Maulana Fazlur Rehman of Pakistan`s Jamiat-ul-Ulema-I-Islam in December 2001. Most frightening, a Pakistani official told Weaver that the maverick nuclear scientist Bashiruddin Mahmood, who is a proponent of Islamic science, ``failed six or seven lie-detector tests`` when interrogated on his meetings with al-Qaeda top brass. Peace envoy Anthony Zinni reckons, ``in a few years, Pakistan`s nuclear weapons could fall into the hands of religious extremists`` (p 266).
Musharraf himself has a queasy past regarding bin Laden. In 1999, before his coup, Nawaz Sharif was asked by Washington to set up a special commando unit to capture or eliminate the man responsible for the Kenya-Tanzania bombings. The project was ``scuttled by the ISI`` upon Musharraf`s nod. Even earlier, in 1998, Prince Turki of Saudi Arabia sought Islamabad`s intervention with the Taliban to extradite bin Laden. Musharraf ``opposed the Saudi move`` (p 247).
Weaver`s final chapter delves into Kashmir. The same policies of holy war against India that Zia, Benazir and Sharif followed are today being applied with renewed vigor by Musharraf. The seemingly unlimited funds that Pakistan allocates to the jihad in Kashmir come not only from its own coffers but also Libya, Saudi Arabia, Europe and North America. By 2000, Pakistan`s military spending alone was greater than all of its development spending combined. Much of this goes into helping mujahideen infiltrate across the Line of Control. Weaver witnessed Pakistani soldiers giving these irregular troops ``rations, weapons and ammunition, and even air cover, if need arose`` (p 258).
US intelligence estimates that 300 or more al-Qaeda Arabs are active in Kashmir on both sides of the Line of Control, besides participating in Sunni-Shi`a battles and attacks on Westerners inside Pakistan. Against the overwhelming evidence, Musharraf remonstrated to Weaver in an interview: ``All this talk of private armies is total nonsense. These men are freedom fighters, not terrorists!`` One prominent Pakistani liberal put Musharraf`s stand on militant Islam thus: ``He`s got this agenda in Kashmir. And he is using the Islamists` fervor for the battle of Kashmir`` (p 271). In the process of exporting battles all over the region, Pakistan itself has been converted into a battleground. The jihad has come home.
Weaver`s book suffers from a few factual and descriptive inaccuracies. Musharraf is wrongly absolved of any role in Zia`s Afghan jihad and Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee is oddly termed a ``strident Hindu nationalist``, a representation neither his foes nor his friends would agree with. The narrative of the book is also disconnected, with plenty of non sequiturs between chapters.
To Weaver`s credit, she has packaged plenty of anecdotal evidence that many are not familiar with, especially not in the West. Readers are left pondering whether Pakistan will indeed fall deeper and deeper into the quagmire of lawlessness and state failure and whether more Ramzi Yousefs and Aimal Kansis (both came from Balochistan) are going to hit the United States hard in vulnerable spots.
Pakistan: In the Shadow of Jihad and Afghanistan, by Mary Anne Weaver, Farrar, Straus and Giroux, November 2002, New York. ISBN: 0-374-22894-9. Price: US$24. 285 Pages.
(©2002 Asia Times Online Co, Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact content@atimes.com for information on our sales and syndication policies.)
Pakistan: The world`s next failed state
South Asia
Pakistan: The world`s next failed state?
Pakistan: In the Shadow of Jihad and Afghanistan, by Mary Anne Weaver
Reviewed by Sreeram Chaulia
Since September 11, 2001, no country has captured the attention of US policymakers and news analyzers as much as Pakistan. A plethora of current-affairs pundits in the United States, whose visions rarely crossed the Middle East, rediscovered forgotten Pakistan as it turned overnight from a ``peripheral`` state, in Richard Haas` foreign-policy priority classification, into a ``vital`` state for the conduct of the war on terrorism. Unlike these opportunist ``experts``, Mary Anne Weaver has written on Pakistan and its surrounding region for more than 20 years. She is rightfully a South Asia specialist, immensely experienced, possessing access to the most important movers and shakers of the region.
In the mold of CNN`s Anita Pratap, she has covered Pakistani and Afghan politics for The New Yorker with a blend of professionalism, courage and compassion, qualities on display in this new book that asks troubling questions about Pakistan`s stability as a state and reliability as a bulwark against militant Islam.
Profusion of drugs, arms, private militias, fundamentalist ideologies and sectarian violence has led to an ``accumulation of disorder in Pakistan such that it could well be the next Yugoslavia`` (p 7). Whichever place in Pakistan Weaver visited in 2001, ``there was a tangible fear that Pakistan was drifting, perhaps inexorably, toward chaos ... one of the most frightening places on Earth``. Weaver`s gut feeling expressed in the preface is that Pakistan`s structural weaknesses are so advanced that it ``could well become the world`s newest failed state - a failed state with nuclear weapons`` (p 10). The next major day of terror in the United States could also come from this combustible and volatile country, whose military rulers halfheartedly agreed to assist Washington against the Taliban when cornered with implied threats of diplomatic and aid embargo.
Weaver`s first chapter sketches President General Pervez Musharraf, the man who sits uneasily astride a ``country that is angry and out of control``. His dispute with Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif centered on Pakistan`s Kargil intrusion of 1999 into Jammu and Kashmir, which led to a quasi-war with India. Army chief Musharraf considered the misadventure a ``major tactical coup`` and was sore that Sharif ordered a withdrawal under US pressure. Musharraf`s hawkish anti-India tendencies were also revealed when his airplane was disallowed from landing in Karachi on Sharif`s order (October 1999), and the pilot informed him that the Indian city of Ahmadabad was open for an emergency stop. The ex-commando`s reply was brusque: ``We`re not going to India! Over my dead body will we land there!`` (p 15) According to one old Musharraf colleague, ``when India and Kashmir come up, he`s transformed into a hardline table-thumper``. Working his way up the army ladder, Musharraf spent his ``entire adult life battling India`` (p 28).
On the domestic front, his ``western cowboy`` image notwithstanding, Musharraf has been unable or unwilling to rein in the state-nurtured Islamist terrorist networks fanning jihads around the world. Weaver thinks it is the result of his power base, an army that is increasingly anti-American and fundamentalist. In his three-year reign, Musharraf has acquiesced recurrently to the pressures of the religious right. The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan labels him a ``silent spectator in the rise of the orthodox clergy and militant Islam`` (p 36). Before September 11, under Musharraf, Pakistan`s backing of the Taliban had risen to client-state proportions. In a face-to-face interview, Musharraf parried Weaver`s questions about the rise of fundamentalist forces, saying ``all this talk about madrassas teaching militancy is just hearsay``. Musharraf`s responses on squeezing Islamist extremism in Pakistan were ``unforthcoming, even misleading at times`` (p 39).
Chapter 2 recalls the fatal swing Pakistan took toward Kalashnikov and jihad culture under Musharraf`s mentor, General Zia-ul-Haq. Pakistan`s role as a frontline state in the first Afghan jihad, starting in 1980, resulted in a profligate slippage and diversion of arms, opium and oil from the US Central Intelligence Agency`s pipeline by the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI). Fifty percent of US arms (including 500 Stinger missiles) never reached the battlefields of Afghanistan. The US ``intentionally or not, launched Pan-Islam`s first holy war in eight centuries`` by massively aiding the ISI and its favorite Islamists. The lethal formula of parlaying popular unrest into holy wars, tested in Afghanistan, went on to be applied by the ISI in the Kashmir proxy war against India.
Zia`s militarization and his focus on jihad deepened anti-Punjabi fissures in Pakistani society. Weaver recounts a 1983 meeting with the leader of Sindhi separatism, G M Syed, in house prison. Question: ``Why are the Sindhis so angry?`` Answer: ``Because we are dominated by Zia`s Punjabis.`` One encounter with the powerful Khan of Kalat in Balochistan reinforced this deep sense of insecurity felt among minorities in Pakistan. ``Pakistani Army raided this very house. They took away my father. There were many more army operations - and then you ask us why we are anti-Pakistan`` (p 100).
Chapter 3 sojourns into the tribal areas of Balochistan, a fiercely independent and Islamist province of Pakistan. Of the 5,000 or more Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters who had slipped into Pakistan by March 2002, the majority sneaked in from Balochistan, adding to the ``returnees`` from the anti-Soviet jihad. The mass influx of Osama bin Laden supporters transformed Balochistan and its adjoining North West Frontier Province ``the world`s next Afghanistan`` (p 87). In Quetta`s Smugglers Bazaar, Weaver found dealers selling anti-tank rockets, launchers, AK-47s, light cannon, landmines and grenades. ``A bullet costs only one rupee; an egg costs two`` (p 118).
Anti-Pakistan secession movements are benefiting from the open availability of deadly arms. The leader of the rebellious Marri tribe, Humayun Khan, told Weaver, ``We`re being exploited and neglected. We`re bitter, we`re angry, we`re armed`` (p 106). Baloch music in the remote town of Turbat carried chants of ``May Allah curse the Pakistani government and martial law``. So suspicious are Baloch youth and nomads of Pakistani rulers that road-building personnel of the central government are pelted with rocks as an alleged part of a plot by Musharraf and the United States to take over the Makran coast.
Chapter 4 is an account of the Wahhabi Saudi Arabian sway over Pakistan, cultivated by both military and civilian governments in Islamabad. Through the medium of the houbara bustard bird, which is hunted rapaciously by Saudi elites in Pakistan, Weaver goes to the heart of Pakistan`s Arabic orientation.
Billionaires from Riyadh, Doha, Manamah, Dubai, etc entered Pakistan from the 1970s to shoot the endangered houbara to near-extinction. Agha Abedi, the Pakistani founder of Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI), arranged hunting outings for the sheikhs in return for walloping bank deposits. When the BCCI collapsed a few years ago, the question cropped up: ``How did Pakistan become so enmeshed with the interests of one bank?`` (p 134) Arab dignitaries who pumped wealth into the bank and greased the palms of Pakistani generals were given diplomatic immunity even when less powerful Pakistanis got arrested and prosecuted for houbara poaching. Conservationists view the non-application of environmental regulations on Arab guests as a case of sheer hypocrisy on the part of the government.
But there are profounder reasons for the exalted treatment of Arabs in Pakistan. As they have been doing in the rest of the Muslim world, Saudis are the primary financiers of Pakistan`s Sunni supremacists and Islamist terrorists. Besides funding the thousands of mujahideen and madrassas, they bankrolled the government of Pakistan with about US$3.5 billion in annual military and economic aid in Zia`s time. Pakistan`s emergence as the leading figure in the world of militant Islam owes a great deal to the oil wallahs from the Persian Gulf.
Chapter 5 takes a close personal look at Benazir Bhutto, the former prime minister, who now lives in exile in London. Weaver sees Benazir, the avowed secularist, as the incubator of the Taliban during her tenure in power. Musharraf, as Benazir`s director general of military operations, had helped her spawn the Taliban in the mid-`90s. Her inability to improve Pakistan`s appalling human-rights record on women and her reliance on religious motifs to survive in a highly conservative Islamic polity doomed her prime ministership. She had to cede control of Pakistan`s nuclear program, its high-risk policy in Afghanistan and the anti-Indian war in Kashmir to the generals. Her influence on the ISI was minimal, as the latter intervened in fundamentalist movements across the world.
Weaver remembers Benazir`s election rallies in Rawalpindi where her supporters fired AK-47s with gay abandon and sang, ``Listen, all you holy warriors.`` Benazir`s failure in politics is summed up in one sentence: ``Pakistan is not an easy country for anyone, let alone a woman, to rule`` (p 179). Her promise of ``breaking the stranglehold of the Islamic clerics`` never materialized.
Chapter 6 discusses the growing Talibanization of Pakistan, a process Weaver denotes as Afghanistan moving farther east into South Asia. Musharraf`s public rhetoric on dealing firmly with homegrown Islamist terrorists has not been accompanied by concrete actions, leading many in Washington to doubt how dependable and ally Pakistan can be.
Weaver reports seeing shops in Miram Shah, a tiny town of the Waziristan area, where for only $100, Taliban and al-Qaeda escapees were shaved, issued new sets of clothes and sent into major Pakistani cities with false identity papers. A few miles from there, in Parachinar, ``the mullahs announced to everyone assembled that they should kill Americans on sight`` (p 221).
Weaver personally received e-mails from publicly banned Pakistani terrorist claques ``informing us that they were going underground to regroup and that we would be receiving their new e-mail addresses and websites`` (p 222). Osama bin Laden underwent dialysis treatment in a military hospital in Rawalpindi and, according to Afghan intelligence, was under the protection of Maulana Fazlur Rehman of Pakistan`s Jamiat-ul-Ulema-I-Islam in December 2001. Most frightening, a Pakistani official told Weaver that the maverick nuclear scientist Bashiruddin Mahmood, who is a proponent of Islamic science, ``failed six or seven lie-detector tests`` when interrogated on his meetings with al-Qaeda top brass. Peace envoy Anthony Zinni reckons, ``in a few years, Pakistan`s nuclear weapons could fall into the hands of religious extremists`` (p 266).
Musharraf himself has a queasy past regarding bin Laden. In 1999, before his coup, Nawaz Sharif was asked by Washington to set up a special commando unit to capture or eliminate the man responsible for the Kenya-Tanzania bombings. The project was ``scuttled by the ISI`` upon Musharraf`s nod. Even earlier, in 1998, Prince Turki of Saudi Arabia sought Islamabad`s intervention with the Taliban to extradite bin Laden. Musharraf ``opposed the Saudi move`` (p 247).
Weaver`s final chapter delves into Kashmir. The same policies of holy war against India that Zia, Benazir and Sharif followed are today being applied with renewed vigor by Musharraf. The seemingly unlimited funds that Pakistan allocates to the jihad in Kashmir come not only from its own coffers but also Libya, Saudi Arabia, Europe and North America. By 2000, Pakistan`s military spending alone was greater than all of its development spending combined. Much of this goes into helping mujahideen infiltrate across the Line of Control. Weaver witnessed Pakistani soldiers giving these irregular troops ``rations, weapons and ammunition, and even air cover, if need arose`` (p 258).
US intelligence estimates that 300 or more al-Qaeda Arabs are active in Kashmir on both sides of the Line of Control, besides participating in Sunni-Shi`a battles and attacks on Westerners inside Pakistan. Against the overwhelming evidence, Musharraf remonstrated to Weaver in an interview: ``All this talk of private armies is total nonsense. These men are freedom fighters, not terrorists!`` One prominent Pakistani liberal put Musharraf`s stand on militant Islam thus: ``He`s got this agenda in Kashmir. And he is using the Islamists` fervor for the battle of Kashmir`` (p 271). In the process of exporting battles all over the region, Pakistan itself has been converted into a battleground. The jihad has come home.
Weaver`s book suffers from a few factual and descriptive inaccuracies. Musharraf is wrongly absolved of any role in Zia`s Afghan jihad and Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee is oddly termed a ``strident Hindu nationalist``, a representation neither his foes nor his friends would agree with. The narrative of the book is also disconnected, with plenty of non sequiturs between chapters.
To Weaver`s credit, she has packaged plenty of anecdotal evidence that many are not familiar with, especially not in the West. Readers are left pondering whether Pakistan will indeed fall deeper and deeper into the quagmire of lawlessness and state failure and whether more Ramzi Yousefs and Aimal Kansis (both came from Balochistan) are going to hit the United States hard in vulnerable spots.
Pakistan: In the Shadow of Jihad and Afghanistan, by Mary Anne Weaver, Farrar, Straus and Giroux, November 2002, New York. ISBN: 0-374-22894-9. Price: US$24. 285 Pages.
(©2002 Asia Times Online Co, Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact content@atimes.com for information on our sales and syndication policies.)
#479 Posted by queen_cut_paste on July 15, 2006 5:08:07 am
Re: # 478
Pakistan involved fully in 9/11
Pakistan `Fully Involved` in 9/11
Arnaud de Borchgrave - Tuesday, Aug. 3, 2004
The Sept. 11 Commission has found troubling new evidence that Iran was closer to al-Qaida than was Iraq. More importantly, and through no fault of its own, the commission missed the biggest prize of all: Former Pakistani intelligence officers knew beforehand all about the September 11 attacks.
They even advised Osama bin Laden and his cohorts how to attack key targets in the United States with hijacked civilian aircraft. And bin Laden has been undergoing periodic dialysis treatment in a military hospital in Peshawar, capital of Pakistan`s Northwest Frontier Province adjacent to the Afghan border.
The information came to the commission`s attention in a confidential report from Pakistan as the commission`s own report was coming off the presses. The information was supplied with the understanding that the unimpeachable source would remain anonymous.
Pakistan still denies that President Pervez Musharraf knew anything about the activities of A.Q. Khan, the country`s top nuclear engineer who spent the last 10 years building and running a one-stop global Wal-Mart for ``rogue`` nations. North Korea, Iran and Libya shopped for nuclear weapons at Mr. Khan`s underground black market. Pakistan has also denied the allegations by a leading Pakistani in the confidential addendum to the September 11 Commission report.
After U.S. and British intelligence painstakingly pieced together Mr. Khan`s global nuclear proliferation endeavors, Deputy Secretary of State Rich Armitage was assigned last fall to convey the devastating news to Mr. Musharraf. Mr. Khan, a national icon for giving Pakistan its nuclear arsenal, was not arrested. Instead, Mr. Musharraf pardoned him in exchange for an abject apology on national television in English.
No one in Pakistan believed Mr. Musharraf`s claim he was totally in the dark about Mr. Khan`s operation. Prior to seizing power in 1999, Mr. Musharraf was and still is army chief of staff. For the past five years, Pakistan`s Inter-Services Intelligence chief has reported directly to Mr. Musharraf.
Osama bin Laden`s principal Pakistani adviser before Sept. 11, 2001, was retired Gen. Hamid Gul, a former ISI chief who, since the 2001 attacks, is ``strategic adviser`` to the coalition of six politico-religious parties that governs two of Pakistan`s four provinces. Known as MMA, the coalition also occupies 20 percent of the seats in the federal assembly in Islamabad.
Hours after Sept. 11, Gen. Gul publicly accused Israel`s Mossad of fomenting the plot. Later, he said the U.S. Air Force must have been in on it since no warplanes were scrambled to shoot down the hijacked airliners.
Gen. Gul spent two weeks in Afghanistan immediately before Sept. 11. He denied meeting bin Laden on that trip, but has always said he was an ``admirer`` of the al-Qaida leader. However, he did meet several times with Mullah Mohammed Omar, the Taliban leader.
Since Sept. 11, hardly a week goes by without Gen. Gul denouncing the United States in both the Urdu and English-language media.
In a conversation with this reporter in October 2001, Gen. Gul forecast a future Islamist nuclear power that would form a greater Islamic state with a fundamentalist Saudi Arabia after the monarchy falls.
Gen. Gul worked closely with the CIA during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan when he was ISI chief. He was ``mildly`` fundamentalist in those days, he explained after Sept. 11, and indifferent to the United States. But he became passionately anti-American after the United States turned its back on Afghanistan following the 1989 Soviet withdrawal and began punishing Pakistan with economic and military sanctions for its secret nuclear buildup.
A ranking CIA official, speaking anonymously, said the agency considered Gen. Gul ``the most dangerous man`` in Pakistan. A senior Pakistani political leader, also on condition of anonymity, said, ``I have reason to believe Hamid Gul was Osama bin Laden`s master planner.``
The report received by the Sept. 11 Commission from the anonymous, well-connected Pakistani source, said: ``The core issue of instability and violence in South Asia is the character, activities and persistence of the militarized Islamist fundamentalist state in Pakistan. No cure for this canker can be arrived at through any strategy of negotiations, support and financial aid to the military regime, or by a `regulated` transition to `democracy.```
The confidential report continued: ``The imprints of every major act of international Islamist terrorism invariably passes through Pakistan, right from September 11 where virtually all the participants had trained, resided or met in, coordinated with, or received funding from or through Pakistan to major acts of terrorism across South Asia and Southeast Asia, as well as major networks of terror that have been discovered in Europe.
``Pakistan has harvested an enormous price for its apparent `cooperation` with the U.S., and in this it has combined deception and blackmail including nuclear blackmail to secure a continuous stream of concessions. Its conduct is little different from that of North Korea, which has in the past chosen the nuclear path to secure incremental aid from Western donors. A pattern of sustained nuclear blackmail has consistently been at the heart of Pakistan`s case for concessions, aid and a heightened threshold of international tolerance for its sponsorship and support of Islamist terrorism.
``To understand how this works, it is useful to conceive of Pakistan`s ISI as a state acting as terrorist traffickers, complaining that, if it does not receive the extraordinary dispensations and indulgences that it seeks, it will, in effect, `implode,` and in the process do extraordinary harm.
``Part of the threat of this `explosion` is also the specter of the transfer of its nuclear arsenal and capabilities to more intransigent and irrational elements of the Islamist far right in Pakistan, who would not be amenable to the logic that its present rulers whose interests in terrorism are strategic, and consequently, subject to considerations of strategic advantage are willing to listen to. ...
``It is crucial to note that if the Islamist terrorist groups gain access to nuclear devices, ISI will almost certainly be the source. ... At least six Pakistani scientists connected with the country`s nuclear program were in contact with al-Qaida and Osama bin Laden with the thorough instructions of ISI.
``Pakistan has projected the electoral victory of the fundamentalist and pro-Taliban, pro-al Qaeda Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) in the November elections as `proof` the military is the only `barrier` against the country passing into the hands of the extremists. The fact, however, is that the elections were widely rigged, and this was a fact acknowledged by the European Union observers, as well as by some of the MMA`s constituents themselves. The MMA victory was, in fact, substantially engineered by the Musharraf regime, as are the various anti-U.S. `mass demonstrations` around the country.
``Pakistan has made a big case out of the fact that some of the top-line leadership of al Qaeda has been arrested in the country with the `cooperation` of the Pakistani security forces and intelligence. However, the fact is that each such arrest only took place after the FBI and U.S. investigators had effectively gathered evidence to force Pakistani collaboration, but little of this evidence had come from Pakistani intelligence agencies. Indeed, ISI has consistently sought to deny the presence of al Qaeda elements in Pakistan, and to mislead U.S. investigators. ... This deception has been at the very highest level, and Musharraf himself, for instance, initially insisted he was `certain` bin Laden was dead. ...
``ISI has been actively facilitating the relocation of the al Qaeda from Afghanistan to Pakistan, and the conspiracy of substantial segments of serving Army and intelligence officers is visible. ...``
``The Pakistan army consistently denies giving the militants anything more than moral, diplomatic and political support. The reality is quite different. ISI issues money and directions to militant groups, specially the Arab hijackers of September 11 from al Qaeda. ISI was fully involved in devising and helping the entire affair. And that is why people like Hamid Gul and others very quickly stated the propaganda that CIA and Mossad did it. ...``
``The dilemma for Musharraf is that many of his army officers are still deeply sympathetic to al Qaeda, Taliban militants and the Kashmir cause. ... Many retired and present ISI officers retain close links to al Qaeda militants hiding in various state-sponsored places in Pakistan and Kashmir as well as leaders from the defeated Taliban regime. They regard the fight against Americans and Jews and Indians in different parts of the world as legitimate jihad.``
The report also says, ``According to a senior tribal leader in Peshawar, bin Laden, who suffers from renal deficiency, has been periodically undergoing dialysis in a Peshawar military hospital with the knowledge and approval of ISI if not of Gen. Pervez Musharraf himself.``
The same source, though not in the report, speculated that Mr. Musharraf may plan to turn over bin Laden to President Bush in time to clinch Mr. Bush`s re-election in November.
Pakistan involved fully in 9/11
Pakistan `Fully Involved` in 9/11
Arnaud de Borchgrave - Tuesday, Aug. 3, 2004
The Sept. 11 Commission has found troubling new evidence that Iran was closer to al-Qaida than was Iraq. More importantly, and through no fault of its own, the commission missed the biggest prize of all: Former Pakistani intelligence officers knew beforehand all about the September 11 attacks.
They even advised Osama bin Laden and his cohorts how to attack key targets in the United States with hijacked civilian aircraft. And bin Laden has been undergoing periodic dialysis treatment in a military hospital in Peshawar, capital of Pakistan`s Northwest Frontier Province adjacent to the Afghan border.
The information came to the commission`s attention in a confidential report from Pakistan as the commission`s own report was coming off the presses. The information was supplied with the understanding that the unimpeachable source would remain anonymous.
Pakistan still denies that President Pervez Musharraf knew anything about the activities of A.Q. Khan, the country`s top nuclear engineer who spent the last 10 years building and running a one-stop global Wal-Mart for ``rogue`` nations. North Korea, Iran and Libya shopped for nuclear weapons at Mr. Khan`s underground black market. Pakistan has also denied the allegations by a leading Pakistani in the confidential addendum to the September 11 Commission report.
After U.S. and British intelligence painstakingly pieced together Mr. Khan`s global nuclear proliferation endeavors, Deputy Secretary of State Rich Armitage was assigned last fall to convey the devastating news to Mr. Musharraf. Mr. Khan, a national icon for giving Pakistan its nuclear arsenal, was not arrested. Instead, Mr. Musharraf pardoned him in exchange for an abject apology on national television in English.
No one in Pakistan believed Mr. Musharraf`s claim he was totally in the dark about Mr. Khan`s operation. Prior to seizing power in 1999, Mr. Musharraf was and still is army chief of staff. For the past five years, Pakistan`s Inter-Services Intelligence chief has reported directly to Mr. Musharraf.
Osama bin Laden`s principal Pakistani adviser before Sept. 11, 2001, was retired Gen. Hamid Gul, a former ISI chief who, since the 2001 attacks, is ``strategic adviser`` to the coalition of six politico-religious parties that governs two of Pakistan`s four provinces. Known as MMA, the coalition also occupies 20 percent of the seats in the federal assembly in Islamabad.
Hours after Sept. 11, Gen. Gul publicly accused Israel`s Mossad of fomenting the plot. Later, he said the U.S. Air Force must have been in on it since no warplanes were scrambled to shoot down the hijacked airliners.
Gen. Gul spent two weeks in Afghanistan immediately before Sept. 11. He denied meeting bin Laden on that trip, but has always said he was an ``admirer`` of the al-Qaida leader. However, he did meet several times with Mullah Mohammed Omar, the Taliban leader.
Since Sept. 11, hardly a week goes by without Gen. Gul denouncing the United States in both the Urdu and English-language media.
In a conversation with this reporter in October 2001, Gen. Gul forecast a future Islamist nuclear power that would form a greater Islamic state with a fundamentalist Saudi Arabia after the monarchy falls.
Gen. Gul worked closely with the CIA during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan when he was ISI chief. He was ``mildly`` fundamentalist in those days, he explained after Sept. 11, and indifferent to the United States. But he became passionately anti-American after the United States turned its back on Afghanistan following the 1989 Soviet withdrawal and began punishing Pakistan with economic and military sanctions for its secret nuclear buildup.
A ranking CIA official, speaking anonymously, said the agency considered Gen. Gul ``the most dangerous man`` in Pakistan. A senior Pakistani political leader, also on condition of anonymity, said, ``I have reason to believe Hamid Gul was Osama bin Laden`s master planner.``
The report received by the Sept. 11 Commission from the anonymous, well-connected Pakistani source, said: ``The core issue of instability and violence in South Asia is the character, activities and persistence of the militarized Islamist fundamentalist state in Pakistan. No cure for this canker can be arrived at through any strategy of negotiations, support and financial aid to the military regime, or by a `regulated` transition to `democracy.```
The confidential report continued: ``The imprints of every major act of international Islamist terrorism invariably passes through Pakistan, right from September 11 where virtually all the participants had trained, resided or met in, coordinated with, or received funding from or through Pakistan to major acts of terrorism across South Asia and Southeast Asia, as well as major networks of terror that have been discovered in Europe.
``Pakistan has harvested an enormous price for its apparent `cooperation` with the U.S., and in this it has combined deception and blackmail including nuclear blackmail to secure a continuous stream of concessions. Its conduct is little different from that of North Korea, which has in the past chosen the nuclear path to secure incremental aid from Western donors. A pattern of sustained nuclear blackmail has consistently been at the heart of Pakistan`s case for concessions, aid and a heightened threshold of international tolerance for its sponsorship and support of Islamist terrorism.
``To understand how this works, it is useful to conceive of Pakistan`s ISI as a state acting as terrorist traffickers, complaining that, if it does not receive the extraordinary dispensations and indulgences that it seeks, it will, in effect, `implode,` and in the process do extraordinary harm.
``Part of the threat of this `explosion` is also the specter of the transfer of its nuclear arsenal and capabilities to more intransigent and irrational elements of the Islamist far right in Pakistan, who would not be amenable to the logic that its present rulers whose interests in terrorism are strategic, and consequently, subject to considerations of strategic advantage are willing to listen to. ...
``It is crucial to note that if the Islamist terrorist groups gain access to nuclear devices, ISI will almost certainly be the source. ... At least six Pakistani scientists connected with the country`s nuclear program were in contact with al-Qaida and Osama bin Laden with the thorough instructions of ISI.
``Pakistan has projected the electoral victory of the fundamentalist and pro-Taliban, pro-al Qaeda Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) in the November elections as `proof` the military is the only `barrier` against the country passing into the hands of the extremists. The fact, however, is that the elections were widely rigged, and this was a fact acknowledged by the European Union observers, as well as by some of the MMA`s constituents themselves. The MMA victory was, in fact, substantially engineered by the Musharraf regime, as are the various anti-U.S. `mass demonstrations` around the country.
``Pakistan has made a big case out of the fact that some of the top-line leadership of al Qaeda has been arrested in the country with the `cooperation` of the Pakistani security forces and intelligence. However, the fact is that each such arrest only took place after the FBI and U.S. investigators had effectively gathered evidence to force Pakistani collaboration, but little of this evidence had come from Pakistani intelligence agencies. Indeed, ISI has consistently sought to deny the presence of al Qaeda elements in Pakistan, and to mislead U.S. investigators. ... This deception has been at the very highest level, and Musharraf himself, for instance, initially insisted he was `certain` bin Laden was dead. ...
``ISI has been actively facilitating the relocation of the al Qaeda from Afghanistan to Pakistan, and the conspiracy of substantial segments of serving Army and intelligence officers is visible. ...``
``The Pakistan army consistently denies giving the militants anything more than moral, diplomatic and political support. The reality is quite different. ISI issues money and directions to militant groups, specially the Arab hijackers of September 11 from al Qaeda. ISI was fully involved in devising and helping the entire affair. And that is why people like Hamid Gul and others very quickly stated the propaganda that CIA and Mossad did it. ...``
``The dilemma for Musharraf is that many of his army officers are still deeply sympathetic to al Qaeda, Taliban militants and the Kashmir cause. ... Many retired and present ISI officers retain close links to al Qaeda militants hiding in various state-sponsored places in Pakistan and Kashmir as well as leaders from the defeated Taliban regime. They regard the fight against Americans and Jews and Indians in different parts of the world as legitimate jihad.``
The report also says, ``According to a senior tribal leader in Peshawar, bin Laden, who suffers from renal deficiency, has been periodically undergoing dialysis in a Peshawar military hospital with the knowledge and approval of ISI if not of Gen. Pervez Musharraf himself.``
The same source, though not in the report, speculated that Mr. Musharraf may plan to turn over bin Laden to President Bush in time to clinch Mr. Bush`s re-election in November.
#478 Posted by omar_r_quraishi on July 15, 2006 4:14:51 am
Mumbai blasts and the peace process
The tragic bomb attacks on Mumbai on July 11, and to a lesser degree the targeted killings of tourists in Srinagar the same day, seem to have pushed the ongoing peace process between India and Pakistan dangerously close to the precipice. Indications from New Delhi following the attacks seem to indicate that the talks between the foreign secretaries of both countries scheduled for July 21, whose objective is to review the composite dialogue, may be postponed. Islamabad has already said that it is willing to go along with a postponement, if it comes, because of domestic complications in India arising out of the tragedy. Pakistan`s offer of help to India in its investigation of the attacks is a welcome step toward pre-empting any heightening of tensions but given the mood in Delhi it is unlikely to be really appreciated let alone taken up.
The fact of the matter is that certain sections of the Indian media and the security establishment seem bent on blaming Pakistan for what has happened. This is the sense one gets from the statements emanating from across the border. Take the case of the complete misreading of Foreign Minister Khurshid Kasuri`s remarks, made in an interview to Reuters in Washington, following the attacks. Mr Kasuri had called the attacks on Mumbai`s crowded commuter trains ``absolutely horrendous`` and said further: ``I think the Mumbai incident -- however tragic it may be and it is undoubtedly very tragic -- underlines the need for the two countries to work together to control this environment, but they can only do so if they resolve their dispute``. A meaning and interpretation for the worse were taken from these comments by the spokesman of India`s Ministry for External Affairs, who often speaks with more hawkishness than his superiors, who responded by saying: ``His [Mr Kasuri`s] remarks appear to suggest that Pakistan will cooperate with India against the scourge of terrorist violence only if the so-called disputes are resolved We find it appalling that [Mr] Kasuri should seek to link this blatant and inhuman act of terrorism against men, women and children to the so-called lack of resolution of disputes between India and Pakistan.``
As far as the Indian media is concerned, the usual unnamed `official sources` got into action this while the investigators were still going through the wreckage of the trains -- by laying the blame on to Pakistan. Fingers were pointed, citing these anonymous `official sources`, as Lashkar-e-Taiba (it and Hizbul Mujahideen have both denied any involvement and have also condemned the bombings). One official gave an explanation that the Lashkar was the only organisation capable of carrying out such an attack -- the logic seems strange given that the probe is still underway. The Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) has also been blamed but Indian authorities should know that this is a mostly home-grown organisation concentrated in Maharashtra, fuelled, some say, by the overtly anti-Muslim communal politics of that province. Even here, media reports suggest that the official view seems to link SIMI with the Lashkar, the latter apparently playing the role of guide and overseer.
In addition to this, inflammatory articles have appeared in mainstream Indian newspapers and on various websites, all pointing to Pakistan`s complicity in the attacks -- one even suggested that the ``second phase of Pakistan`s proxy war`` with India had begun. A lot of this balderdash is written by retired bureaucrats and military officials, and this happens, admittedly on this side of the border too. However, much of this seems to be shared by the government as well. In the space of three days, New Delhi has said that the existence of jihadi training camps in Pakistan meant that militants had bases in Pakistan and that this was a cause of major concern. But the LoC is now fenced with barbed wire (if not mined as well), and several hundred thousand Indian soldiers patrol it. Also, the Pakistan government has said repeatedly that it is not behind any cross-border movement and that militants from the Pakistani side are not crossing the LoC. This has been somewhat, albeit very reluctantly, admitted by Indian officials who have said several times that cross-border infiltration has come down considerably. Besides, India has several indigenous groups of its own as well, many of whom would have much to gain from communal fallout of the Mumbai attacks. And there are many groups and elements -- on both sides -- that are also opposed to the peace dialogue between India and Pakistan. Some of these elements may be found in the respective governments and security apparatuses (and some have a very strong base in Maharashtra), which is why the Indian government should be absolutely sure of the identity of the attackers before heaping blame on Pakistan.
Editorial, The News, July 15, 2006
The tragic bomb attacks on Mumbai on July 11, and to a lesser degree the targeted killings of tourists in Srinagar the same day, seem to have pushed the ongoing peace process between India and Pakistan dangerously close to the precipice. Indications from New Delhi following the attacks seem to indicate that the talks between the foreign secretaries of both countries scheduled for July 21, whose objective is to review the composite dialogue, may be postponed. Islamabad has already said that it is willing to go along with a postponement, if it comes, because of domestic complications in India arising out of the tragedy. Pakistan`s offer of help to India in its investigation of the attacks is a welcome step toward pre-empting any heightening of tensions but given the mood in Delhi it is unlikely to be really appreciated let alone taken up.
The fact of the matter is that certain sections of the Indian media and the security establishment seem bent on blaming Pakistan for what has happened. This is the sense one gets from the statements emanating from across the border. Take the case of the complete misreading of Foreign Minister Khurshid Kasuri`s remarks, made in an interview to Reuters in Washington, following the attacks. Mr Kasuri had called the attacks on Mumbai`s crowded commuter trains ``absolutely horrendous`` and said further: ``I think the Mumbai incident -- however tragic it may be and it is undoubtedly very tragic -- underlines the need for the two countries to work together to control this environment, but they can only do so if they resolve their dispute``. A meaning and interpretation for the worse were taken from these comments by the spokesman of India`s Ministry for External Affairs, who often speaks with more hawkishness than his superiors, who responded by saying: ``His [Mr Kasuri`s] remarks appear to suggest that Pakistan will cooperate with India against the scourge of terrorist violence only if the so-called disputes are resolved We find it appalling that [Mr] Kasuri should seek to link this blatant and inhuman act of terrorism against men, women and children to the so-called lack of resolution of disputes between India and Pakistan.``
As far as the Indian media is concerned, the usual unnamed `official sources` got into action this while the investigators were still going through the wreckage of the trains -- by laying the blame on to Pakistan. Fingers were pointed, citing these anonymous `official sources`, as Lashkar-e-Taiba (it and Hizbul Mujahideen have both denied any involvement and have also condemned the bombings). One official gave an explanation that the Lashkar was the only organisation capable of carrying out such an attack -- the logic seems strange given that the probe is still underway. The Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) has also been blamed but Indian authorities should know that this is a mostly home-grown organisation concentrated in Maharashtra, fuelled, some say, by the overtly anti-Muslim communal politics of that province. Even here, media reports suggest that the official view seems to link SIMI with the Lashkar, the latter apparently playing the role of guide and overseer.
In addition to this, inflammatory articles have appeared in mainstream Indian newspapers and on various websites, all pointing to Pakistan`s complicity in the attacks -- one even suggested that the ``second phase of Pakistan`s proxy war`` with India had begun. A lot of this balderdash is written by retired bureaucrats and military officials, and this happens, admittedly on this side of the border too. However, much of this seems to be shared by the government as well. In the space of three days, New Delhi has said that the existence of jihadi training camps in Pakistan meant that militants had bases in Pakistan and that this was a cause of major concern. But the LoC is now fenced with barbed wire (if not mined as well), and several hundred thousand Indian soldiers patrol it. Also, the Pakistan government has said repeatedly that it is not behind any cross-border movement and that militants from the Pakistani side are not crossing the LoC. This has been somewhat, albeit very reluctantly, admitted by Indian officials who have said several times that cross-border infiltration has come down considerably. Besides, India has several indigenous groups of its own as well, many of whom would have much to gain from communal fallout of the Mumbai attacks. And there are many groups and elements -- on both sides -- that are also opposed to the peace dialogue between India and Pakistan. Some of these elements may be found in the respective governments and security apparatuses (and some have a very strong base in Maharashtra), which is why the Indian government should be absolutely sure of the identity of the attackers before heaping blame on Pakistan.
Editorial, The News, July 15, 2006
#477 Posted by zeemax on July 15, 2006 2:29:34 am
#435 by shishapa
....... You said that it is the army that hates India...Why is that? What will make them stop hating India? Anything India that will do that will stop this hate?...
They hate India because if they don`t noone will call them `mera mahi chael chabila ... karnail nee jernail nee`. I grew up with the very popular slogan `Crush India` introduced by Ayub Khan after the 1965 fiasco and even then I used to wonder why the hell do they want to do that, i.e. even if they could. That slogan used to be plastered on every wall. That`s the mindset they wanted to create amongst the school children of the time.
As for what India should do, they should openly support the return of democracy in Pakistan and follow it up with close relations with whoever emerges as the leader, even if it means interfering in internal affairs ... But then again, isn`t India on the receiving end of Pakistan`s `internal affairs`?
#436 by avkrishna
Let`s
1) Remove the scourge of Casteism from our society
2) Establish Gender equality
3) Extend political support only to political parties supportive of Hindus
4) Direct all monetary and non-monetary donations to Hindu organizations
You can add a number `5` ``...and break India into a thousand ethnic pieces.``
#454 by stuka
The 1993 blasts happened in Bombay when Nwaz was in power. The true ruler in Pak is not the army but the ISI...
Nawaz was not even kept informed of Kargill so it would be wrong to fault the civvy government. As for ISI, they are largely overstimated. ISI does what it is told to do by the top army brass. As you know, ISI is composed of serving army personnell and the head of ISI is always a serving general so how can it be more powerful than the army? It is however a popular whipping boy of politicians/public to avoid having to directly target the army, which is huge `no no` and considered treasonous/unpatriotic. It may also come as a surprise to you that personnel who are transferred to ISI service are those who are considered too dumb, unmanageable, and with attitude problems in order to sideline them from the military mainstream.
...point is that even when there is democracy, it will still be ISI-Military nexus in power.
In the past yes. In the future no if the charter of democracy initiated by the major political parties reaches its logical conclusion and not tripped up with major powers support as soysauce has reasoned in his #455. That must not happen and will be a tragedy of monumental proportions and consequences.
The charter of democracy has a single clear and essential purpose ... to bring the military under the control of the executive branch, just as it says in the constitution. You will recall that on the 12 October 1999, there was no crisis or emergency warranting a military takeover. However, the prime minister had exercised his legitimate constitutional power to dismiss the army chief which he had done before as well in the case of Jehangir Keramat. The difference was that this army chief was too contemptuous of civilians to have been retired by one, so NS was overthrown and would have actually been executed like ZAB if the Saudis had not come to his rescue upon intervention of Clinton. NS is on record having said that Clinton had saved his life. Then Musharraf went on to tear up the constitution and marginalise politics and rest is history repeating itself. But for how long?
The Pakistan army is indeed a monster, but not one that cannot be leashed.
....... You said that it is the army that hates India...Why is that? What will make them stop hating India? Anything India that will do that will stop this hate?...
They hate India because if they don`t noone will call them `mera mahi chael chabila ... karnail nee jernail nee`. I grew up with the very popular slogan `Crush India` introduced by Ayub Khan after the 1965 fiasco and even then I used to wonder why the hell do they want to do that, i.e. even if they could. That slogan used to be plastered on every wall. That`s the mindset they wanted to create amongst the school children of the time.
As for what India should do, they should openly support the return of democracy in Pakistan and follow it up with close relations with whoever emerges as the leader, even if it means interfering in internal affairs ... But then again, isn`t India on the receiving end of Pakistan`s `internal affairs`?
#436 by avkrishna
Let`s
1) Remove the scourge of Casteism from our society
2) Establish Gender equality
3) Extend political support only to political parties supportive of Hindus
4) Direct all monetary and non-monetary donations to Hindu organizations
You can add a number `5` ``...and break India into a thousand ethnic pieces.``
#454 by stuka
The 1993 blasts happened in Bombay when Nwaz was in power. The true ruler in Pak is not the army but the ISI...
Nawaz was not even kept informed of Kargill so it would be wrong to fault the civvy government. As for ISI, they are largely overstimated. ISI does what it is told to do by the top army brass. As you know, ISI is composed of serving army personnell and the head of ISI is always a serving general so how can it be more powerful than the army? It is however a popular whipping boy of politicians/public to avoid having to directly target the army, which is huge `no no` and considered treasonous/unpatriotic. It may also come as a surprise to you that personnel who are transferred to ISI service are those who are considered too dumb, unmanageable, and with attitude problems in order to sideline them from the military mainstream.
...point is that even when there is democracy, it will still be ISI-Military nexus in power.
In the past yes. In the future no if the charter of democracy initiated by the major political parties reaches its logical conclusion and not tripped up with major powers support as soysauce has reasoned in his #455. That must not happen and will be a tragedy of monumental proportions and consequences.
The charter of democracy has a single clear and essential purpose ... to bring the military under the control of the executive branch, just as it says in the constitution. You will recall that on the 12 October 1999, there was no crisis or emergency warranting a military takeover. However, the prime minister had exercised his legitimate constitutional power to dismiss the army chief which he had done before as well in the case of Jehangir Keramat. The difference was that this army chief was too contemptuous of civilians to have been retired by one, so NS was overthrown and would have actually been executed like ZAB if the Saudis had not come to his rescue upon intervention of Clinton. NS is on record having said that Clinton had saved his life. Then Musharraf went on to tear up the constitution and marginalise politics and rest is history repeating itself. But for how long?
The Pakistan army is indeed a monster, but not one that cannot be leashed.
#476 Posted by parthaab on July 15, 2006 1:56:22 am
Historically, Religion and violence are intertwined.
Around the world, most violence occurs in areas which have `faith`.
A recent study showed that while 92% of Indians believed in God, Britain had a third less believers. Religion thrives on insecurity, poverty, illiteracy, ignorance and ill-health.
Many may argue that terrorism is due to politics, no matter what the religion, age or sex. While a major part of Indian politics is based on religion, Pakistani extremists want a religious solution to an essentially political Kashmir problem.
One outstanding example of a purely religious strife is Gujarat. Whose architect, the BJP, is a major political party in India.
The Kashmir issue, like the Palestine or Sri Lankan one, is a vexed issue avoiding a political solution. The Kashmiris have been marauded for generations now and the Indian subcontinent has limped along economically, compared to atheist China, for eg. This issue, that Indira Gandhi and Bhutto played marbles with, and is now at our doorsteps, needs urgent attention from the governments involved. Otherwise, the subcontinent is bound to spiral into further instability.
Let us remember the example of the EU - our most important friends are our neighbours.
Around the world, most violence occurs in areas which have `faith`.
A recent study showed that while 92% of Indians believed in God, Britain had a third less believers. Religion thrives on insecurity, poverty, illiteracy, ignorance and ill-health.
Many may argue that terrorism is due to politics, no matter what the religion, age or sex. While a major part of Indian politics is based on religion, Pakistani extremists want a religious solution to an essentially political Kashmir problem.
One outstanding example of a purely religious strife is Gujarat. Whose architect, the BJP, is a major political party in India.
The Kashmir issue, like the Palestine or Sri Lankan one, is a vexed issue avoiding a political solution. The Kashmiris have been marauded for generations now and the Indian subcontinent has limped along economically, compared to atheist China, for eg. This issue, that Indira Gandhi and Bhutto played marbles with, and is now at our doorsteps, needs urgent attention from the governments involved. Otherwise, the subcontinent is bound to spiral into further instability.
Let us remember the example of the EU - our most important friends are our neighbours.
#475 Posted by krishna_abcd on July 14, 2006 10:15:49 pm
#452 by HisExcellency
[We cannot fight this scourge with bombs and berets. We can only fight this monster by resolving conflicts, abiding by international laws and respecting human rights for everyone, regardless of religion and nationality. To fight a monster, we have to become human(e)... instead of becoming a monster ourselves.]
Ah, so you are saying that we should NOT emulate Mo who chopped off the heads of 700 unarmed civilians and sold their innocent and helpless women and children into slavery? And fought countless bloody wars?
Is that what you are saying?
[We cannot fight this scourge with bombs and berets. We can only fight this monster by resolving conflicts, abiding by international laws and respecting human rights for everyone, regardless of religion and nationality. To fight a monster, we have to become human(e)... instead of becoming a monster ourselves.]
Ah, so you are saying that we should NOT emulate Mo who chopped off the heads of 700 unarmed civilians and sold their innocent and helpless women and children into slavery? And fought countless bloody wars?
Is that what you are saying?








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