M K Afzal July 17, 2006
#10 Posted by kaami on July 21, 2006 9:52:47 am
Re: # 9
thaanx Inquirer Sb,
for your comments and, i must add, a very apt analysis...
i believe that most (or in fact all) of us cannot live without a system, and that`s why we ``choose`` to adhere to one system or the other... but dissatisfaction governs the human psyche... one`s probably never satisfied with whatever one`s got...
i believe i`m not a thinker... i`m more of an observer...
most of the deficiencies and the shortcomings of this write-up might be there because the core thought wasn`t mine to start with.... the core thought was a crude idea which had its roots in the fact that as soon as we get into high school, ``elders`` don`t let us live they way we want to and start imposing their ``been-there-done-that`` upon us...
but the thingy about the `system` is something i came up with sometome back and often use as an excuse to justify something which cannot be justified otherwise
thaanx Inquirer Sb,
for your comments and, i must add, a very apt analysis...
i believe that most (or in fact all) of us cannot live without a system, and that`s why we ``choose`` to adhere to one system or the other... but dissatisfaction governs the human psyche... one`s probably never satisfied with whatever one`s got...
i believe i`m not a thinker... i`m more of an observer...
most of the deficiencies and the shortcomings of this write-up might be there because the core thought wasn`t mine to start with.... the core thought was a crude idea which had its roots in the fact that as soon as we get into high school, ``elders`` don`t let us live they way we want to and start imposing their ``been-there-done-that`` upon us...
but the thingy about the `system` is something i came up with sometome back and often use as an excuse to justify something which cannot be justified otherwise
#9 Posted by Inquirer on July 20, 2006 5:50:16 am
Re: # 8, kaami:
It speaks well of you to confess the limitations and deficiency of the your own write-up. Since you have not seen the quarter of century yet, that should be considered as a promise for rational future for you.
Your first paragraph is exactly right. And it shows that many older people have not matured. As for the second paragraph, the alternative to no system - which by definition means compliance to the collective wisdom - is chaos. All sections of humanity have made the decision that any self imposed system, howsoever deficient, is better for them than the chaos.
Of course, blind adherence to A system is not always wise. There is a legitimate place for the collective correction of any system. Otherwise, one can become a victim of systems such as Hitler`s.
It speaks well of you to confess the limitations and deficiency of the your own write-up. Since you have not seen the quarter of century yet, that should be considered as a promise for rational future for you.
Your first paragraph is exactly right. And it shows that many older people have not matured. As for the second paragraph, the alternative to no system - which by definition means compliance to the collective wisdom - is chaos. All sections of humanity have made the decision that any self imposed system, howsoever deficient, is better for them than the chaos.
Of course, blind adherence to A system is not always wise. There is a legitimate place for the collective correction of any system. Otherwise, one can become a victim of systems such as Hitler`s.
#8 Posted by kaami on July 19, 2006 3:05:03 pm
actually i don`t think lifes that bad, bj...
though the above composition may have made me sound otherwise...
i believe life`s quite sweet for most of us... it`s just that whenever something good befalls upon us, we take it for granted... but as soon as something bad happens, we start complaining: ``why me?``
this write-up is just a li`l `exaggeration` of the fact that we as humans are not single entities, we are all willingly or unwillingly part of some system... systems that want to govern us and want us to live our lives in a way that conforms to their norms..... and at more times than not, we have to give in whether we like it or not... we`ve got a very few choices
and no, i`m not 50... i haven`t even been through a quarter century...
kamran
though the above composition may have made me sound otherwise...
i believe life`s quite sweet for most of us... it`s just that whenever something good befalls upon us, we take it for granted... but as soon as something bad happens, we start complaining: ``why me?``
this write-up is just a li`l `exaggeration` of the fact that we as humans are not single entities, we are all willingly or unwillingly part of some system... systems that want to govern us and want us to live our lives in a way that conforms to their norms..... and at more times than not, we have to give in whether we like it or not... we`ve got a very few choices
and no, i`m not 50... i haven`t even been through a quarter century...
kamran
#7 Posted by BJ2 on July 19, 2006 12:43:46 pm
Short version of this write-up: Life is a beach (or its sound-alike) and then you die!
#6 Posted by kaami on July 18, 2006 10:46:32 am
thanx ppl for the critique and the sole appreciation (thanx zara)....
good to see a psychologist chipping in with his two pennies (or maybe more considering the worth of such an input).... doctor, i think ur couplet relates to the article a bit more than mr. ghalib`s
actually, the inspiration for this came from a thought once discussed by a friend of mine who argued that all our lives, ppl demand one thing or the other from us... making us do what THEY think is right... things that conform to the codes and norms of our society...
his presentation of the point was funny to say the least and i started off with an article with the same theme... i`ve been unable to give it an ending yet... the above article is actually a ``spin-off``....
i agree with inquirer and sahara to quite an extent and will second the fact that even the non-choice is also a choice and all our lives we ARE actually making choices but when we come to think of it, we realize how few of those choices were actually ``free`` choices and not forced on us in one way or the other....
regards,
kamran
good to see a psychologist chipping in with his two pennies (or maybe more considering the worth of such an input).... doctor, i think ur couplet relates to the article a bit more than mr. ghalib`s
actually, the inspiration for this came from a thought once discussed by a friend of mine who argued that all our lives, ppl demand one thing or the other from us... making us do what THEY think is right... things that conform to the codes and norms of our society...
his presentation of the point was funny to say the least and i started off with an article with the same theme... i`ve been unable to give it an ending yet... the above article is actually a ``spin-off``....
i agree with inquirer and sahara to quite an extent and will second the fact that even the non-choice is also a choice and all our lives we ARE actually making choices but when we come to think of it, we realize how few of those choices were actually ``free`` choices and not forced on us in one way or the other....
regards,
kamran
#4 Posted by Inquirer on July 18, 2006 6:11:51 am
It is tempting for some to say that it is the story of all lives. But the fallacy of that statement lies in the implicit definition of life.
Now, what is life? It is a deep and almost unanswerable question discussed by Buddha, Christ, Mohammad to Schroedinger in immediate and ultimate terms.
But one can reach a tentative operational definition. We will focus only on the concept of life from the point of view of the individual liver.
As it is said in Gita, life is a concatenation of choices from the moment one is born to the very end. Even a non-choice is also a choice.
Furthermore, was the final recognized ``choice`` really free? Need I go into the gory details of a real life dilemma?
Thus, life IS what you make of it - naturally, under the given circumstances. Even if, most of the hapless and non-thinking individuals may find the similarity with the character of the write-up.
Now, what is life? It is a deep and almost unanswerable question discussed by Buddha, Christ, Mohammad to Schroedinger in immediate and ultimate terms.
But one can reach a tentative operational definition. We will focus only on the concept of life from the point of view of the individual liver.
As it is said in Gita, life is a concatenation of choices from the moment one is born to the very end. Even a non-choice is also a choice.
Furthermore, was the final recognized ``choice`` really free? Need I go into the gory details of a real life dilemma?
Thus, life IS what you make of it - naturally, under the given circumstances. Even if, most of the hapless and non-thinking individuals may find the similarity with the character of the write-up.
#3 Posted by Sahara on July 17, 2006 8:50:56 pm
Well, the character in the story ``chose`` to play by the rules. It was his choice to succumb to the demands of the society, perhaps, because, he fancied a peaceful life, and was wise enough to know that only obedience to the rules of the game can guarantee that to him. However, all his life, all along the journey, he was making choices, without accepting the responsibility for them. In the end, he simply had the freedom to choose without worrying about the society’s reaction to his decision, because he knew that the society saves all its sympathy for the dead or the dying ones.
#1 Posted by drsohail on July 17, 2006 5:58:42 pm
dear kamran afzal
your article reminded me of ghalib`s couplet
hazaron khahishain aisi kay har khahish pa dam niklay
bohut niklay meray armaan laikin phir bhi kam niklay
and my own couplet
apni parwaaz ka andaza laganay kay liay
apnay mahaul say aazaad fizain mangeen
sincerely sohail
your article reminded me of ghalib`s couplet
hazaron khahishain aisi kay har khahish pa dam niklay
bohut niklay meray armaan laikin phir bhi kam niklay
and my own couplet
apni parwaaz ka andaza laganay kay liay
apnay mahaul say aazaad fizain mangeen
sincerely sohail
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