Pervez Hoodbhoy July 23, 2006
#39 Posted by Ranjit on July 25, 2006 4:16:53 am
Mr. Hoodbhoy,
Pakistanis and muslims all over the world are completely obsessed with their religion. Day in, day out, their only motivation is religion, religion and even more religion. Nothing else matters. Karl Marx said religion is the opiate for the masses. For muslims, Islam is not just opium, it is like crack cocaine. It is supremely addictive. It provides them the ultimate escape from the real world and gives them false comfort of some guranteed afterworld happiness, if they do a few specific things.
Real life is tough for everyone. Getting an education, getting a job, competing with everyone, leading a honest life and sustaining oneself and family is not an easy task. As compared to that struggle, it is far more comfortable to stay illiterate and practice some mechanical rituals hoping to score enough brownie points with Allah to make it to heaven. If you want a short cut to heaven, just blow up some kaffirs and you have paid your dues faster.
Why is Islam like this as compared to other religions? I believe the reason is the highly structured nature of the faith with a very distinct set of ``dos and donts``. Christianity is also structured but not to this extent while Hinduism is not structured at all. That is why christians in Europe flirted with religious escapism till the middle ages but gave it up. Hindus never bought into it. But muslims have bought into religious escapism, lock stock and barrel. Nothing can really change that.
#38 Posted by arstoo on July 25, 2006 1:53:49 am
ref [#36 by einsteinwallah on July 24, 2006 6:39pm PT]
Islam is a relegion of peace. Infidels like parvez, you and me can not understand this simple fact. God sent his messagnger Prophet ( SAW-PBUH-KS-POM-ETC) to spread peace on this earth and wipe the indidels of the face of earth.
Once Prophet ( SAW-PBUH-KS-POM-ETC ) was resting after a heavy lunch. His beautiful Jewish wife was sitting next to him. Prophet ( SAW-PBUH-KS-POM-ETC) was in deep thought planning his next attack on the kafirs.
While he was planning the next move with his left hand he was fondling the breasts of his beautiful wife. In the mean time one of his followers knoked at the door and was let in. It was his faithful follower Mughlim with his 4th wife Al-bood.
Mughlim asked Prophet ( SAW-PBUH-KS-POM-ETC) : `O messanger of god, I have captured this woman and her young daughter in the war. Can I enjoy them bothe togeather.``
Prophet ( SAW-PBUH-KS-POM-ETC) went int deeper thought after fondling his wife for the next 15 minutes he said `Listen you believer, don`t you have any shame left. How will you justify this behaviour on the night of reckoning. Be kind to them. You enjoy the mother first and then sell her as slave. After that you are free to enjoy the daughter`
This example clearly shows the compassion, love for humanity and empathy in the heart of messanger of God.
No infidel is capable of understanding this.
Islam is a relegion of peace. Infidels like parvez, you and me can not understand this simple fact. God sent his messagnger Prophet ( SAW-PBUH-KS-POM-ETC) to spread peace on this earth and wipe the indidels of the face of earth.
Once Prophet ( SAW-PBUH-KS-POM-ETC ) was resting after a heavy lunch. His beautiful Jewish wife was sitting next to him. Prophet ( SAW-PBUH-KS-POM-ETC) was in deep thought planning his next attack on the kafirs.
While he was planning the next move with his left hand he was fondling the breasts of his beautiful wife. In the mean time one of his followers knoked at the door and was let in. It was his faithful follower Mughlim with his 4th wife Al-bood.
Mughlim asked Prophet ( SAW-PBUH-KS-POM-ETC) : `O messanger of god, I have captured this woman and her young daughter in the war. Can I enjoy them bothe togeather.``
Prophet ( SAW-PBUH-KS-POM-ETC) went int deeper thought after fondling his wife for the next 15 minutes he said `Listen you believer, don`t you have any shame left. How will you justify this behaviour on the night of reckoning. Be kind to them. You enjoy the mother first and then sell her as slave. After that you are free to enjoy the daughter`
This example clearly shows the compassion, love for humanity and empathy in the heart of messanger of God.
No infidel is capable of understanding this.
#36 Posted by einsteinwallah on July 24, 2006 6:39:03 pm
[#10 by arstoo on July 24, 2006 1:28am PT
...In Quran it is clearly mentioned that an infidel has no right to say anything about Islam...]
Does Quran mention that a believer can challenge all of Islamic beliefs? Or, some beliefs are off limits to believers also? If some significant parts of Quran cannot be challenged by believers also and these are too crucial for relations between believers and non-believers then non-believers are bound to talk about it. A non-believer may not know entire system of your beliefs but since he/she is affected by some of your beliefs then he is bound to talk about it whether you give him that right or not.
It is like 9/11. As long as your beliefs are not causing terrorist acts like 9/11 west is going to leave you to your beliefs. By all means immerse yourself in these beliefs, cook them up and eat them up, no one is going to question you. But as soon as 9/11 happened same beliefs affected west because ultimately 9/11 was result of your beliefs. So now west is going to say what is acceptable and what is not. From there on meddling in Islam will begin. For good or bad you will have to learn to live with it.
...In Quran it is clearly mentioned that an infidel has no right to say anything about Islam...]
Does Quran mention that a believer can challenge all of Islamic beliefs? Or, some beliefs are off limits to believers also? If some significant parts of Quran cannot be challenged by believers also and these are too crucial for relations between believers and non-believers then non-believers are bound to talk about it. A non-believer may not know entire system of your beliefs but since he/she is affected by some of your beliefs then he is bound to talk about it whether you give him that right or not.
It is like 9/11. As long as your beliefs are not causing terrorist acts like 9/11 west is going to leave you to your beliefs. By all means immerse yourself in these beliefs, cook them up and eat them up, no one is going to question you. But as soon as 9/11 happened same beliefs affected west because ultimately 9/11 was result of your beliefs. So now west is going to say what is acceptable and what is not. From there on meddling in Islam will begin. For good or bad you will have to learn to live with it.
#35 Posted by einsteinwallah on July 24, 2006 5:56:39 pm
IMHO veiled female students are okay as long as they do not teach their sons to blow themselves up. I am all for Muslim women getting educated. I hope the findings of western researchers that educated women beget fewer children is not culture-specific. If some of these learn about great achievements of science such as brought about by extreme sacrifices of Copernicus and Galileo then may be, just may be they might understand why modern Christianity has become such an unbelieving religion. They might then want to start similar revolution in their own society. May be I am dreaming. Let Pakistan open ``womens only`` universities. Let Pakistani women join these in large numbers. Let these places have many women centric vocational courses so that women feel that it is worth their while to join these universities. Let these places do many women centric studies. Veils or no veils that will do them good.
#34 Posted by mantra on July 24, 2006 4:03:57 pm
They can`t even eliminate sectarian terrorism, how could they ever do anything about Taliban or other likeminded fools.
#32 Posted by rozaiba on July 24, 2006 3:38:18 pm
Initially I enjoyed reading Farhat Hashmi being kicked out of Canada. Then I realized she most probably would be moving back here.
#30 Posted by rf786 on July 24, 2006 2:56:30 pm
Doctor Sahib has simply stated the obvious, Pakistani society continues to sink deeper into this vortex of tribalism-cum-fundamentalism. Another example of moderate enlightenment taking a back seat was seen when Mushy very conviniently has decided to simply ``amend`` the hudood ordinance to fit Islamic credentials. No repeal just a simple gloss over.
Root problem lies in Pakistans status as a country for rent, unfortunately for the poor masses it has been the Saudi benefactors and their wahabi followers who continue to pour funds and influence state policy. Muslim world would be a much better place if Saudi Wahabis and Irani Shia extremists are removed from the global scene, this wud include their political and financial power base. Pur kia karain sahab, oil above $70/BBL has helped no one more than these two extremists and thanks to who? Papa Bush who is busy dismantling all secular forces who cud have made this region a much better place for democracy, capitalism and civil society. Alas, that was not to be and we are living in a world where fundos will kill u for blasphemy and Uncle Sam treats u like a potential terrorists...dhobi ka kutha naa ghar ka na ghat ka....
Liberate Mecca Medina Tehran and the Muslim world will change if not, Canada zinabad...
Root problem lies in Pakistans status as a country for rent, unfortunately for the poor masses it has been the Saudi benefactors and their wahabi followers who continue to pour funds and influence state policy. Muslim world would be a much better place if Saudi Wahabis and Irani Shia extremists are removed from the global scene, this wud include their political and financial power base. Pur kia karain sahab, oil above $70/BBL has helped no one more than these two extremists and thanks to who? Papa Bush who is busy dismantling all secular forces who cud have made this region a much better place for democracy, capitalism and civil society. Alas, that was not to be and we are living in a world where fundos will kill u for blasphemy and Uncle Sam treats u like a potential terrorists...dhobi ka kutha naa ghar ka na ghat ka....
Liberate Mecca Medina Tehran and the Muslim world will change if not, Canada zinabad...
#31 Posted by mohar11 on July 24, 2006 3:10:40 pm
Re: # 30
[...if not, Canada zinabad...]
there has been demands to implement sharia in Canada.... so don`t be so sure...
[...if not, Canada zinabad...]
there has been demands to implement sharia in Canada.... so don`t be so sure...
#29 Posted by arjun_m on July 24, 2006 2:56:06 pm
#28 by Urstruly on July 24, 2006 2:29pm PT
Is there a verse in the koran about people paying taxes to the great satan...taxes that are being used to ship weapons to the jews..weapons that are used to kill the believers?
Is there a verse in the koran about people paying taxes to the great satan...taxes that are being used to ship weapons to the jews..weapons that are used to kill the believers?
#28 Posted by Urstruly on July 24, 2006 2:29:16 pm
It is quite obvious from good professors observation that Pakistani Muslims have overwhelmingly rejected the Western moral and political dictation imposed through their agents.
The family of Imran verses 3:118 - 3;120
[3:118] O you who believe, do not befriend outsiders who never cease to wish you harm; they even wish to see you suffer. Hatred flows out of their mouths and what they hide in their chests is far worse. We thus clarify the revelations for you, if you understand.
[3:119] Here you are loving them, while they do not love you, and you believe in all the scripture. When they meet you they say, ``We believe,`` but as soon as they leave, they bite their fingers out of rage towards you. Say, ``Die in your rage.`` GOD is fully aware of the innermost thoughts.
[3:120] When anything good comes your way they hurt, and when something bad happens to you they rejoice. If you steadfastly persevere, and maintain righteousness, their schemes will never hurt you. GOD is fully aware of everything they do.
#27 Posted by kaurasach on July 24, 2006 11:55:09 am
hamidm,
next time invite the mullah to come along to the local drinking hole.......and read this sher to him
``mullah agar teri dua may asar hai to masjid hilla kay dikha;
nahin, tau do ghoont pee aur masjid ko hilta dekh.``
next time invite the mullah to come along to the local drinking hole.......and read this sher to him
``mullah agar teri dua may asar hai to masjid hilla kay dikha;
nahin, tau do ghoont pee aur masjid ko hilta dekh.``
#26 Posted by tahmed32 on July 24, 2006 11:46:05 am
hamidm: That was very kind of you to invite me to your cremation (and may they develop the Serum of Immortality before that happens). For a small fee, I will be glad mumble something as well. For a small additional fee, I shall also throw a curse on all those who pestered you in this world.
We also have the Funeral De Luxe plan. Here, in addition to prayers for the deceased and curses for his/her pesterers, we provide an artifical beard for the deceased and place a tasbih in the deceased`s hands (thereby softening up the examiners who visit the grave) as well.
Then we have the Super De Luxe plan. This plan provides all of the above, plus parroting of the Quran in six different madrassahs. In addition, the kafan for the deceased is made from the royal robes of caliph-in-waiting, mullah fazloo. In addition, we burn a flag of a nation of your choice (Danish flags being hot sale items nowadays), which lends that special touch to the ceremony.
Finally, we offer the Mullah Fazloo Special. Under this plan, a loud burp will be given by 21 mullahs one after another - this being the islami version of the 21 gun salute in honor of the deceased!!
So run, dont walk, to a WalMullah store nearest you!!
We also have the Funeral De Luxe plan. Here, in addition to prayers for the deceased and curses for his/her pesterers, we provide an artifical beard for the deceased and place a tasbih in the deceased`s hands (thereby softening up the examiners who visit the grave) as well.
Then we have the Super De Luxe plan. This plan provides all of the above, plus parroting of the Quran in six different madrassahs. In addition, the kafan for the deceased is made from the royal robes of caliph-in-waiting, mullah fazloo. In addition, we burn a flag of a nation of your choice (Danish flags being hot sale items nowadays), which lends that special touch to the ceremony.
Finally, we offer the Mullah Fazloo Special. Under this plan, a loud burp will be given by 21 mullahs one after another - this being the islami version of the 21 gun salute in honor of the deceased!!
So run, dont walk, to a WalMullah store nearest you!!
#25 Posted by HP on July 24, 2006 11:45:08 am
Hamid,
``but the thought of ending up with a bunch of idlee-eating head-waggers as relatives is rather scary``
Well! That would put fear of god in any father...
My neighborhood is full of Mormon boys and that is another scary scene....
``but the thought of ending up with a bunch of idlee-eating head-waggers as relatives is rather scary``
Well! That would put fear of god in any father...
My neighborhood is full of Mormon boys and that is another scary scene....
#23 Posted by HP on July 24, 2006 11:01:34 am
Hamidm,
I also go to the Pakistani functions and you are right that there is a steady increase of crazies from Pakistan/ME in the last ten years or so. But, I have never let an opportunity to challenge them on their nonsense go by.
You see you fail to confront crazies and then complain on internet....
Btw, I see less hijab now. In fact, recently on Detroit airport I noticed a whole bunch of young arab girls with long skirts or jeans and full sleeve shirts but no Hijab... I think that is an improvement over what I saw just a couple of years ago in Detroit.
#24 Posted by hamidm2 on July 24, 2006 11:34:46 am
Re: # 23
HP,
``You see you fail to confront crazies and then complain on internet....``
...... i am in deep trouble as it is - mrs hamidm is convinced that no muslim family is ever ask for our daughter`s hand because of my apostasy ........ personally i am thrilled at the prospect of a jewish son-in-law, but the thought of ending up with a bunch of idlee-eating head-waggers as relatives is rather scary
HP,
``You see you fail to confront crazies and then complain on internet....``
...... i am in deep trouble as it is - mrs hamidm is convinced that no muslim family is ever ask for our daughter`s hand because of my apostasy ........ personally i am thrilled at the prospect of a jewish son-in-law, but the thought of ending up with a bunch of idlee-eating head-waggers as relatives is rather scary
#21 Posted by Ally on July 24, 2006 10:17:24 am
But at the heart of Pakistan’s problems lies a truth – one etched in stone – that when a state proclaims a religious identity and mission, it is bound to privilege those who organize religious life and interpret religious text. Since there are many models and interpretations within every religion, there is bound to be conflict between religious forces over whose model shall prevail. There is also the larger confrontation between religious principles and practices and what we now consider to be ‘modern’ ideas of society, which have emerged over the past several hundred years.
The crux of the matter, the ONLY thing that will help Pakistan is to make religion a personal choice and become a secular country as we were meant to be, Just like India and if the overly Islamified Pakistanis dont like the example of India then tell them Turkey.
A religious state can never succeed, Look at Pakistan when we were secular, before we added Islamic to our name, we were a much more successful country then, with a lot more unity. Pakistaniyat should be our guiding light and principle and not that of any faith, as every faith and every variety of Islam is practised by people who are Pakistani.
Maybe now the time is ripe/right for a secular Pakistani movement to gain ground and start doing something!
Ally
Still saying Khuda Hafiz!
The crux of the matter, the ONLY thing that will help Pakistan is to make religion a personal choice and become a secular country as we were meant to be, Just like India and if the overly Islamified Pakistanis dont like the example of India then tell them Turkey.
A religious state can never succeed, Look at Pakistan when we were secular, before we added Islamic to our name, we were a much more successful country then, with a lot more unity. Pakistaniyat should be our guiding light and principle and not that of any faith, as every faith and every variety of Islam is practised by people who are Pakistani.
Maybe now the time is ripe/right for a secular Pakistani movement to gain ground and start doing something!
Ally
Still saying Khuda Hafiz!
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