Waiting for Enlightenment
Pervez Hoodbhoy July 23, 2006
#17 Posted by bbabu on July 24, 2006 8:56:51 am
Saudi Arabia and Iran makes billions in oil revenues to support their Islamic infrastructure. They indulge in actions that make their citizens less free and less productive. I am not sure Pakistan can afford this crap. I have never been to Pakistan. But I think a lot of these articles on Islamic militants in Pakistan are scare tactics.
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#18 Posted by hamidm2 on July 24, 2006 8:58:09 am
also waiting for enlightenment in michigan ..............
.......... while dr. hoodbhoy is justified in being alarmed by the rise of fundamentalism in pakistan, it might surprise him to hear that the same dark clouds are spreading in michigan, usa ...........
.......... last friday i went to a funeral in troy michigan where the imam, standing over the open grave, began to talk about the epic struggle between kufr and islam and warning the people that if they didn`t shape up they would be destroyed like the people before them ......... as the crowd started getting fidgety he turned on the half a dozen women who had dared to come to the cemetery and started berating them for not wearing the proper headjob (aka hijab) ......... i looked over at the deceased`s daughter and had this sudden urge to grap a shovel and hit the bearded b*$#@rd on the head ............ needless to say, i simply headed straight for the bar to drown my sorrows
.......... we are all in for a very very long wait ..............
#19 Posted by HP on July 24, 2006 10:04:04 am
#18 by hamidm2
“needless to say, i simply headed straight for the bar to drown my sorrows Here is partial list of site banned by India”
So you are just a 101 Keyboard warrior? Even tho I don’t go to funerals and sht like that but if I were you, I would have objected to the mullah loudly…. while living in the US you can muster this much courage but then again you seem to be just a keyboard warrior.
will comment of this mediocre article later....
“needless to say, i simply headed straight for the bar to drown my sorrows Here is partial list of site banned by India”
So you are just a 101 Keyboard warrior? Even tho I don’t go to funerals and sht like that but if I were you, I would have objected to the mullah loudly…. while living in the US you can muster this much courage but then again you seem to be just a keyboard warrior.
will comment of this mediocre article later....
#20 Posted by tahmed32 on July 24, 2006 10:17:14 am
HP: Hamidm was merely implementing the adage ``if you get a lemon, make lemonade``. His implementation being: ``if you get a momin, make scotch and soda``.
Between the scoth and the shovel, there is a third option: have a regular muslim, not a maulvi, do the funeral. That is what my father instructed for his funeral a day or two before migrating to the next world, and that is what we did. God bless his soul for sparing us a maulvi that day.
Between the scoth and the shovel, there is a third option: have a regular muslim, not a maulvi, do the funeral. That is what my father instructed for his funeral a day or two before migrating to the next world, and that is what we did. God bless his soul for sparing us a maulvi that day.
#21 Posted by Ally on July 24, 2006 10:17:24 am
But at the heart of Pakistan’s problems lies a truth – one etched in stone – that when a state proclaims a religious identity and mission, it is bound to privilege those who organize religious life and interpret religious text. Since there are many models and interpretations within every religion, there is bound to be conflict between religious forces over whose model shall prevail. There is also the larger confrontation between religious principles and practices and what we now consider to be ‘modern’ ideas of society, which have emerged over the past several hundred years.
The crux of the matter, the ONLY thing that will help Pakistan is to make religion a personal choice and become a secular country as we were meant to be, Just like India and if the overly Islamified Pakistanis dont like the example of India then tell them Turkey.
A religious state can never succeed, Look at Pakistan when we were secular, before we added Islamic to our name, we were a much more successful country then, with a lot more unity. Pakistaniyat should be our guiding light and principle and not that of any faith, as every faith and every variety of Islam is practised by people who are Pakistani.
Maybe now the time is ripe/right for a secular Pakistani movement to gain ground and start doing something!
Ally
Still saying Khuda Hafiz!
The crux of the matter, the ONLY thing that will help Pakistan is to make religion a personal choice and become a secular country as we were meant to be, Just like India and if the overly Islamified Pakistanis dont like the example of India then tell them Turkey.
A religious state can never succeed, Look at Pakistan when we were secular, before we added Islamic to our name, we were a much more successful country then, with a lot more unity. Pakistaniyat should be our guiding light and principle and not that of any faith, as every faith and every variety of Islam is practised by people who are Pakistani.
Maybe now the time is ripe/right for a secular Pakistani movement to gain ground and start doing something!
Ally
Still saying Khuda Hafiz!
#22 Posted by hamidm2 on July 24, 2006 10:45:35 am
Re: # 20
tahmed,
......... if it was just the the mullah`s it wouldn`t be all that bad - it is the `normal` run of the mill muslim who has rediscovered his/her faith over the last few years ......... over the past 25 years i have been going to picnics and other functions organized by the pakistani organizations like the paa, appna, etc. and every year i have noticed a steady increase in young girls in hijabs, middle aged fat women in abayas, public prayer, geriatric men in topis, pubescent boys in beards and other displays of bedouin religiosity ..........
............ the disease has to run its course and there is nothing you or i can do about it
p.s you are invited to my cremation - that`s my silly and rather futile way of getting back at the idiots who pestered me while i was alive ........ no pulao and halwa for them !
tahmed,
......... if it was just the the mullah`s it wouldn`t be all that bad - it is the `normal` run of the mill muslim who has rediscovered his/her faith over the last few years ......... over the past 25 years i have been going to picnics and other functions organized by the pakistani organizations like the paa, appna, etc. and every year i have noticed a steady increase in young girls in hijabs, middle aged fat women in abayas, public prayer, geriatric men in topis, pubescent boys in beards and other displays of bedouin religiosity ..........
............ the disease has to run its course and there is nothing you or i can do about it
p.s you are invited to my cremation - that`s my silly and rather futile way of getting back at the idiots who pestered me while i was alive ........ no pulao and halwa for them !
#23 Posted by HP on July 24, 2006 11:01:34 am
Hamidm,
I also go to the Pakistani functions and you are right that there is a steady increase of crazies from Pakistan/ME in the last ten years or so. But, I have never let an opportunity to challenge them on their nonsense go by.
You see you fail to confront crazies and then complain on internet....
Btw, I see less hijab now. In fact, recently on Detroit airport I noticed a whole bunch of young arab girls with long skirts or jeans and full sleeve shirts but no Hijab... I think that is an improvement over what I saw just a couple of years ago in Detroit.
#24 Posted by hamidm2 on July 24, 2006 11:34:46 am
Re: # 23
HP,
``You see you fail to confront crazies and then complain on internet....``
...... i am in deep trouble as it is - mrs hamidm is convinced that no muslim family is ever ask for our daughter`s hand because of my apostasy ........ personally i am thrilled at the prospect of a jewish son-in-law, but the thought of ending up with a bunch of idlee-eating head-waggers as relatives is rather scary
HP,
``You see you fail to confront crazies and then complain on internet....``
...... i am in deep trouble as it is - mrs hamidm is convinced that no muslim family is ever ask for our daughter`s hand because of my apostasy ........ personally i am thrilled at the prospect of a jewish son-in-law, but the thought of ending up with a bunch of idlee-eating head-waggers as relatives is rather scary
#25 Posted by HP on July 24, 2006 11:45:08 am
Hamid,
``but the thought of ending up with a bunch of idlee-eating head-waggers as relatives is rather scary``
Well! That would put fear of god in any father...
My neighborhood is full of Mormon boys and that is another scary scene....
``but the thought of ending up with a bunch of idlee-eating head-waggers as relatives is rather scary``
Well! That would put fear of god in any father...
My neighborhood is full of Mormon boys and that is another scary scene....
#26 Posted by tahmed32 on July 24, 2006 11:46:05 am
hamidm: That was very kind of you to invite me to your cremation (and may they develop the Serum of Immortality before that happens). For a small fee, I will be glad mumble something as well. For a small additional fee, I shall also throw a curse on all those who pestered you in this world.
We also have the Funeral De Luxe plan. Here, in addition to prayers for the deceased and curses for his/her pesterers, we provide an artifical beard for the deceased and place a tasbih in the deceased`s hands (thereby softening up the examiners who visit the grave) as well.
Then we have the Super De Luxe plan. This plan provides all of the above, plus parroting of the Quran in six different madrassahs. In addition, the kafan for the deceased is made from the royal robes of caliph-in-waiting, mullah fazloo. In addition, we burn a flag of a nation of your choice (Danish flags being hot sale items nowadays), which lends that special touch to the ceremony.
Finally, we offer the Mullah Fazloo Special. Under this plan, a loud burp will be given by 21 mullahs one after another - this being the islami version of the 21 gun salute in honor of the deceased!!
So run, dont walk, to a WalMullah store nearest you!!
We also have the Funeral De Luxe plan. Here, in addition to prayers for the deceased and curses for his/her pesterers, we provide an artifical beard for the deceased and place a tasbih in the deceased`s hands (thereby softening up the examiners who visit the grave) as well.
Then we have the Super De Luxe plan. This plan provides all of the above, plus parroting of the Quran in six different madrassahs. In addition, the kafan for the deceased is made from the royal robes of caliph-in-waiting, mullah fazloo. In addition, we burn a flag of a nation of your choice (Danish flags being hot sale items nowadays), which lends that special touch to the ceremony.
Finally, we offer the Mullah Fazloo Special. Under this plan, a loud burp will be given by 21 mullahs one after another - this being the islami version of the 21 gun salute in honor of the deceased!!
So run, dont walk, to a WalMullah store nearest you!!
#27 Posted by kaurasach on July 24, 2006 11:55:09 am
hamidm,
next time invite the mullah to come along to the local drinking hole.......and read this sher to him
``mullah agar teri dua may asar hai to masjid hilla kay dikha;
nahin, tau do ghoont pee aur masjid ko hilta dekh.``
next time invite the mullah to come along to the local drinking hole.......and read this sher to him
``mullah agar teri dua may asar hai to masjid hilla kay dikha;
nahin, tau do ghoont pee aur masjid ko hilta dekh.``
#28 Posted by Urstruly on July 24, 2006 2:29:16 pm
It is quite obvious from good professors observation that Pakistani Muslims have overwhelmingly rejected the Western moral and political dictation imposed through their agents.
The family of Imran verses 3:118 - 3;120
[3:118] O you who believe, do not befriend outsiders who never cease to wish you harm; they even wish to see you suffer. Hatred flows out of their mouths and what they hide in their chests is far worse. We thus clarify the revelations for you, if you understand.
[3:119] Here you are loving them, while they do not love you, and you believe in all the scripture. When they meet you they say, ``We believe,`` but as soon as they leave, they bite their fingers out of rage towards you. Say, ``Die in your rage.`` GOD is fully aware of the innermost thoughts.
[3:120] When anything good comes your way they hurt, and when something bad happens to you they rejoice. If you steadfastly persevere, and maintain righteousness, their schemes will never hurt you. GOD is fully aware of everything they do.
#29 Posted by arjun_m on July 24, 2006 2:56:06 pm
#28 by Urstruly on July 24, 2006 2:29pm PT
Is there a verse in the koran about people paying taxes to the great satan...taxes that are being used to ship weapons to the jews..weapons that are used to kill the believers?
Is there a verse in the koran about people paying taxes to the great satan...taxes that are being used to ship weapons to the jews..weapons that are used to kill the believers?
#30 Posted by rf786 on July 24, 2006 2:56:30 pm
Doctor Sahib has simply stated the obvious, Pakistani society continues to sink deeper into this vortex of tribalism-cum-fundamentalism. Another example of moderate enlightenment taking a back seat was seen when Mushy very conviniently has decided to simply ``amend`` the hudood ordinance to fit Islamic credentials. No repeal just a simple gloss over.
Root problem lies in Pakistans status as a country for rent, unfortunately for the poor masses it has been the Saudi benefactors and their wahabi followers who continue to pour funds and influence state policy. Muslim world would be a much better place if Saudi Wahabis and Irani Shia extremists are removed from the global scene, this wud include their political and financial power base. Pur kia karain sahab, oil above $70/BBL has helped no one more than these two extremists and thanks to who? Papa Bush who is busy dismantling all secular forces who cud have made this region a much better place for democracy, capitalism and civil society. Alas, that was not to be and we are living in a world where fundos will kill u for blasphemy and Uncle Sam treats u like a potential terrorists...dhobi ka kutha naa ghar ka na ghat ka....
Liberate Mecca Medina Tehran and the Muslim world will change if not, Canada zinabad...
Root problem lies in Pakistans status as a country for rent, unfortunately for the poor masses it has been the Saudi benefactors and their wahabi followers who continue to pour funds and influence state policy. Muslim world would be a much better place if Saudi Wahabis and Irani Shia extremists are removed from the global scene, this wud include their political and financial power base. Pur kia karain sahab, oil above $70/BBL has helped no one more than these two extremists and thanks to who? Papa Bush who is busy dismantling all secular forces who cud have made this region a much better place for democracy, capitalism and civil society. Alas, that was not to be and we are living in a world where fundos will kill u for blasphemy and Uncle Sam treats u like a potential terrorists...dhobi ka kutha naa ghar ka na ghat ka....
Liberate Mecca Medina Tehran and the Muslim world will change if not, Canada zinabad...
#31 Posted by mohar11 on July 24, 2006 3:10:40 pm
Re: # 30
[...if not, Canada zinabad...]
there has been demands to implement sharia in Canada.... so don`t be so sure...
[...if not, Canada zinabad...]
there has been demands to implement sharia in Canada.... so don`t be so sure...
#32 Posted by rozaiba on July 24, 2006 3:38:18 pm
Initially I enjoyed reading Farhat Hashmi being kicked out of Canada. Then I realized she most probably would be moving back here.
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