Vignettes from the Cellular Jail

Re: # 40

I don`t think that British used to take pleasure in torturing indigenous people. If that was the sole objective then they could have very well done it right on the Indian soil. The buidling of Malta and Andeman prisons was due to psychological reasons. They needed a place where neither the convicts nor the guards had any contact with local population. That would help maintain an aura of mythical terror in the hearts of people in Hindustan. The stategy was successful. It was all a part of psychological warfare - else it was impossible for mere 16,000 whites (including military and all) to rule a country of 60 million.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that Americans have built the dungeons at Guantanomo bay and elsewhere under the guidance of British. Too bad the times have changed. World has shrunk so much that mere exile to far corners of the world did not help create that kind of terror that british were able to create. Hence Americans were forced to time-release the depiction of torture at abu gharaib through the media. I am not very sure how this strategy has worked out against the people whom they are trying to scare.

urstruly:

it was true that british ruthlessly killed the rebels. but they didn`t make distinction between hindus, muslims, sikhs. those who opposed them were slaughtered, raped whereas those who were with them got higher ranks.

delhi being the capital and was suppresed brutally. those who were blown to bits were both hindus and muslims, especially when the mutineers had themselves committed ghastly crimes in kanpore like murdering european women and children. have you heard about the ``hole of calcutta`` where people died due to suffocation.

it was retribution with no mercy.

why would they take pains to send someone to cellular jail when the entire city was plundered and raped for a week (by official decress!). when bahadur shahs sons were not spared why would they spare others?

in hindsight all revolutions, freedom and independence struggles have been futile and in vain, mostly they have done more harm than good. usually thy`ve resulted in massacres, refugees, ethnic cleansing, etc.

Re: # 35

urstruly:

``Malta, whereas, I am speculating here, the Hindu exiles were sent to Andeman because of the noteriety of pacific ocean in that area as kaala paani and Hindu mythology related to it, to instill fear in the heart of hindu population. ``

what nonsense is this!

as if malta is in hindus backyard. don`t you have to cross water for that?

also even though it was a taboo, many hindus had cross the oceans. how do you think gandhi went to s. africa.

it was called kaala paani because of the despair and hardships. not because it involved simply crossing water!

#36,
My dear friend,

I see that you have very limited or no knowledge of history. For you, I will suggest you do more than Google and read some serious stuff.

``Violent struggle in Africa as well as in Vietnam was heavily funded by two sides during cold war. Do you have any examples of anyone funding Indian struggle? ``

Vietnam struggle did not start with the arrival of the US forces or the cold war. Take a wild guess who was in Vietnam before the US.

South Africa struggle started way before anyone was capable of supporting it. Now please name the countries that supported the South African struggle in the early 20th century and in the late 19th century.

This is really pathetic that your knowledge of history is so limited and then you wanna discuss it.

My dear HP #34
If you do not have fact, say so and don`t hide behind google.

All counteries that you have quoted as examples of a ``real freedom struggle``, got their freedom in aftermath of 2nd world war. Indonesia, Malaysia, and Vietnam are among such countries.
Violent struggle in Africa as well as in Vietnam was heavily funded by two sides during cold war. Do you have any examples of anyone funding Indian struggle?

Come back with some details rather than throwing names of google and yahoo.

#27 friend

``Can we use Andman prisoner list as any indicator of true ratio of different communities participation in freedom struggle after 1857? ``

That might very well be the case or it may not. If you look at the picture of Andeman jail, the mere size of the establishment does not justify its build for merely 300 prisoners for a time period of 80 years.



It is also not clear from the website information whether the list is a selected list of some assorted prominent prisoners or it is a comprehensive list. But the historical accounts that I have read from our books is that most of the Muslim exiles were sent to Malta, whereas, I am speculating here, the Hindu exiles were sent to Andeman because of the noteriety of pacific ocean in that area as kaala paani and Hindu mythology related to it, to instill fear in the heart of hindu population.

Sometimes ago I was reading a book titled ``Aligarh tahrik : samaji aur siyasi mutalaah`` (The Ali Garh movemnt- A social & political study); which was written by an Indian Muslim named Mazhar Hussain and it was published in Delhi. The book basically chronicles the life of Sir Syed Ahmad Khan and his Ali Garh Movement through various stages of time and how national politics was shaping it. The author has mentioned in detail the post 1857 efforts by Syed to establish a better relationship between Muslims and British. In the aftermath of 1857, not only Muslim nobility but the middle class suffered huge losses in life and confiscation of property regardless of whether they took part in the Independence Struggle (of 1857) or not. Muslims were defeated, tortured and humilited thus, and they harbored deep feelings of resentment against the British. Syed`s efforts in those days were in the direction of portraying british as just rulers. His method was to prove to Muslims with facts and figures that British were equal-opportunity-attrocity-committers to both Hindus and Muslims. It was the same defeatist attitude that we see today in certain class of Pakistanis (and Indians) who try to prove with `facts` that West is in fact a friend of Mulsim world. The book shows the actual excerpts of Syed`s writing, especially, from his magazine Tehzeeb-ul-Ikhlaq, where he had taken statistice from tens of districts where properties were confiscated. His statistics were something like this - `take, for example, this district X where 926 Hindu properties were confiscated whereas only 775 Muslim properties were confiscated; and you idiot Muslims, you call British unjust?``. Syed Sahib most conveniently sidelined the 15-85% proportion of Hindu Mulsim population.

Like masadi said below, an independent history of Hindustan still has to be written by its own people. This history cannot be wrtitten until we get ourselves out of mental vassalage. Unfortunately, those of us who have freed themselves from the schakles and chains have become nationistists or jingoists. These two tendencies are also anathema to writing an unbiased history.

#33 by friend

I think google is a good tool for you to research that...It is good idea to read abt things yourself before discussing them...

HP #29
My dear friend
Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, South Africa, Rhodesia, and Angola and then try several countries in South America -

Would you also care to publish a timeline of how many countries out of these won their freedom before 1947?
Once you do that, make a list of foreign help available to the freedom movements in these counteries (and compare that to help available to India).

BTW, would you agree that freedom movement in several Latin American counteries and North America was actually a secession from their parent countries.

It is too early to talk about how the freedom struggle was, freedom hasn`t been achieved yet, and so far the performance is poor, the colonized mind is what works to the advantage of the Neo Colonials and keeps this performance poor. When we get rid of that mindset, the freedom struggle that results will be second to none.

Harimau,

(The British tortured, killed and maimed but they kept adequate records and were fair and transparent in whom they tried and imprisoned and hanged. )

If you become the PM of India, try, imprison and hang the author, but do maintain proper records. Quality certification, you know.

Regards

HP sain,

(The Indian freedom struggle at best can be called sissy or khasi. )

The true Indian freedom struggle was actually fought by what Manto would describe as our fellow Aryans- the Nazis.

Regards

#27 by friend
“Please quote examples of valor and vigor in other freedom movements.”

I thought no one would need examples…I believe world history is not a popular subject around here…
Start with Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, South Africa, Rhodesia, and Angola and then try several countries in South America. These are just a few names that came to me in less than couple of seconds.

Ref echoboom #5

[Shantanu Dutta
You write in your intro:

..``Additionally as a Christian and part of a minority community he tries to view things from the perspective of the underdog....``

That short sentence has spoken volumes about life in India for you.]

No bishop of the Christian Church in Indi hs committed suicide on the steps of the courthouse, unlike in Lahore.

That should speak volumes about the state of minorities in Pakistan but probably you feel that minorities deserve their fate for living in Pakistan.

We haven`t had Azharuddin convert to Hinduism in India. Or Shah Rukh Khan.

Unlike Yousuf Yohanna.

But I suppose you would claim that Yousuf Yohanna saw the light.

Have you no shame?

#21 UrsTruly
Can we use Andman prisoner list as any indicator of true ratio of different communities participation in freedom struggle after 1857? Otherwise I would have expected many more muslim names in this list. If what you write about 1857 is true, perhaps Britishers broke Muslim`s will to fight and struggle. Andaman was reserved for leaders or key players in freedom struggle. Absence of Parsis and Anglo-Indians is not really much surprising. Parsis survived by never getting into controvery and always be on good side of everyone.

PS: I never read anything about dungeons of Malta. Can you provide any references?

HP,
Please quote examples of valor and vigor in other freedom movements.

Re: # 18

kamath:

below is the link:

http://www.andamancellularjail.org/ListOfRevolutionaries.htm