Om Shanti.... Om Shanti.... Shanti.....Shanti...Shanti...heeee!
Om Shanti!

OM Brahmo Deva

OM Vaishnu Deva

OM PushuPati Deva

These are but.. non sense sanskrit words....They have no power....but for those who believe......

OM......Shanti.....OM Shanti....OM Shanti.....

I call upon you, O Greatest of all goddesses, O powerful Mother Durga......

Round up the evil doers and annihilate them......

Show us your miracle.....

O Mother of all....I ask thee in the name of Allah!


I call upon you, O Great Mother Kali.....Destroy these so called Muslims who call themselves Al Qaeda....and eat their hearts.....and make necklaces of their skulls and dance upon their corpses......


I call upon you, O Great Mother Saraswati, Fill this world with your music and wisdom, and make the evil doers and shedders of blood blind, deaf and dumb. Remove all pleasure they may feel in this world..

I call upon you, O Great Mother Lakshmi, Take away the wealth of those who hoard it and use it not to help your children....

I call upon you, O Great Parvati, Fill this world with beauty divine and enchant us....

Re: # 342

> people of India were not forcibly converted to Islam neither were those in other lands,
> clearly revealed and documented by ALL historians of note ......

Yeah right .... whatever rocks your boat. ......

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wiseguyin writes <<< There were Jews who wanted the state of Israel, the same way there were muslims who
wanted Pukistan .... wats the difference .... and both the states had British blessings ... >>>

Actually the indigeneous Jews were a minority of a minority and most were against Zionist aspirations and the people of India were not forcibly converted to Islam neither were those in other lands, clearly revealed and documented by ALL historians of note, by demographic studies even a century after the major conquests and if the people of India were forcibly converted, India would probably be located inside Sri Lanka and not where it is. Get your facts straight.

#338 sorry, i got confused. i would add my two bits, but am not sure what the question is though.

shoresahib #335 Have you read all/some of these books?!! how do these compare with the Quran? i read a bit of the bible, and it could see that the bible delves more into the stories (creation, prophets and so forth) than the Quran. ALthough, the sense of awe of the universe around us is present in both. but the prophets stories get quite interesting, with the prophets - far from being perfect - are shown as deeply flawed men.

#338 by tahmed32

The post was addressed to shoresahib. However, if you have any information on the subject, it will be gratefully acknowledged with thanks.

#333 you didnt ask me any question about Lot`s relationships with his daughters. nor has masadi addressed any post to me on this board. i would read every post on chowk in my search for enlightenment, but time limits force me to limit my reading to a few posters only and skip the rest.

#335/336 by ShoreSahib

Ok ok. So Tanak=Hebrew Bible ... What is Talmud? You don`t like Talmud because you didn`t mention that either in your adulation of old scriptures. But it`s all for the better that you don`t because it`s really nasty ... real mean ... kind of stuff.

So `Tanak` says that Lot cohabited with his daughters in a cave and formed a whole new tribe. Is that true Sir?

Mr. ZMax
It took me two hours to briefly describe the three lettered word called TNK or TANAK.

So Please read, and before you ask any more enlightened questions,
Please Read!

OK!

Again....

SAY

RAB E ZIDNI ILMA..... and start reading.....it will hurt in the beginning but it does get better....

Re: # 333

Mr. ZeeMax,

The TaNaK ``IS`` the Old Testament....

T stands for the book of Torah.....The LAW...Consists of the five books starting with
1) The Book of Genesis called ``Bereshit`` in Hebrew meaning ``In the Begining``.

2) The Book of Exodus called ``Shermot`` in Hebrew meaning ``Names``.

3) The Book of Leviticus called ``Vayyiqra`` in Hebrew meaning ``And He Called``.

4) The Book of Numbers called ``Bammidbar`` in Hebrew meaning ``In the Desert``.

5) The Book of Deuteronomy called ``Devarim`` in Hebrew meaning ``Discourses``or simply ``Words``.


N stands for the book of Nevi`n.....The Prophets....such as the narratives from The Book of Joshua till The Book of Kings! Prophets such as Samuel, Shamaool in Hebrew, Shamael in Arabic (One who hears). Same word root in arabic as well, from Sama or Shama meaning to hear.

The Book of Kings talks about the Solomon also known as Sulayman, King of Jerusalem covering the period of 150 years from the time Solomon, son of David (Daud) ruled till the enslavement of the Banae Israel by the Babylonian King Nebuch de Nazar. This is the book that talks about the Hikmat or Wisdom of Solomon and the famous story about the decision between two women about a baby.

K stands for the book of Ketuvim.......The Writings....

The Ketuvim is a collection of:-

1) The three Poetic Books such as the Psalms of David called ``Tehillim`` in Hebrew, also known as Zabur in Arabic, The Book of Proverbs (Hikayaat) called ``Mishlei`` in Hebrew, and the Book of Job (Ayub) called ``Iyyov`` in Hebrew.

2) The five short books called:

a) The Book of Song of Songs called Shir ha Shirim in Hebrew....also called Song of Solomon....the book purported to be authored by Solomon, son of David.

b) The Book of Ruth....the story of the moabite widow married to a man from Beit al Lahem...Bethelehem, perhaps written around 500 BCE in the early Persian period...

c)The Book of Lamentations called ``Ekakh`` meaning ``How to Wail`` in Hebrew...read on the day of Tisha B`Av, the day marked for remembrance of the day the Temple was destroyed..

d) The Book of Eclesiastes called ``Qoholet`` in Hebrew meaning ``to Gather`` and describes the story of the king who calls himself the son of David, King of Israel in Jerusalem.

e) The Book of Esther called ``Megillah`` in Hebrew relating the story of a brave Jewish Queen that has been linked to the Babylonian Goddess ``Ishtar`` and her cousin ``Marduk`` during the reign of the Persian King ``Khshayarshah in Farsi`` also known as Xerxes I around the time 480-460 BCE.

3) The three remaining books are called:

a) The Book of Daniel known as ``DAANIYAL`` in Arabic telling the story of an Israelite who becomes advisor to the Babylonian King Nebuch de Nazar.

b) The Book of Ezra known as ``Uzair`` in Arabic telling the story of the building of the wall of Jerusalem and the day to day workings of the second Temple that stood between 515 B.C.E and 70 C. E.

c) The Book of Chronicles called ``Divre Hayyamim`` in Hebew meaning ``Recollection of the Days`` and the book ends by the famous Proclamation of the Persian King Cyrus the Great allowing Israelites to return back home from Babylon to Jerusalem.
This book is attributed to Ezra, the scribe also known as Uzair.

#326/327 by bulleya

Hazb is indeed fighting a classic guerilla war, and is better at it than any other guerilla force the world has seen before. You can see the efficacy of their strategy in their luring IDF till Bint` Jbeil and hammering it there. I suspect that after a few days they will let go of Bint` Jbeil and fall back towards Litani/Tyre. If IDF follows, their elongated supply lines will be sitting-ducks for those anti-tank missiles of Hazb.

IDF`s failure is not a matter of doubt anymore. Israel fired its Lebanon Commander today.

#319 by ShoreSahib to Tahmed Bhai,

Thank you so much for your kind and poignant words. I love the verses from the Quran, as they speak an essential truth to me that I have found in my readings of the Upanishads, the TANAK, New Testament, Dhammapada, the Vedas, and the Bhagavad Gita.

I see you conveniently left out the `Old` Testament even though you authoritatively quoted from it. I`m sure it is an inadvertant mistake.

But never mind. You don`t have to address me and I`ll let you successfuly deflect my question regarding the current whereabouts of the tribe born out of incest between Lot and his daughters. I already know who they are.

But can you answer Masadi`s question please?

#299 by arjun_m

Perhaps that`s what Musharraf meant when he said Pakis speak better English than Indians.

#299 by arjun_m

ROTFL!!

behram #325 pigs do indeed have wings, and no doubt masadi will hop onto the nearest oinker and thus fly - not walk, not trot...but fly!! - in his search for the truth.

Romair #327 While in writing my post below I had thought that #326 was the last word on the question of the current war in the middle east, you realized that something was still left to be said.

We on chowk are indeed blessed that you have returned during this critical time so we may all understand better what is happening behind the fog of war.

Romair #326 Your vast military knowledge, specialized skills in insurgency and counterinsurgency tactics, seasoning in conventional warfare, and your acute insightful mind that swims in military strategy and in battlefield tactics with the ease of fish swimming in water, have indeed come together in this masterly post.

Thank you for sharing.

In addition to the previous reply:

Interestingly, the USA dropped over 7 million tonnes of armament on Vietnam, over a timespan of 12 years. To get an idea of how much this is, consider that the USA used 2 million tonnes of armament in all of WW II, which was fought in much larger theatre.........

The total number of Vietnamese killed, according to McNamara`s book is 3.2 million. The Vietnamese claim 2 milliion of these were their civilians. A figure that may be generally accepted..........

Yet despite all these figures, which dwarf anything the USA did in WWII, Vietnam still won and the USA lost.......The Soviets killed upto 1 million Afghans, while the Afghans only killed 27,000(?) Soviets. Yet the Afghans won the war.

This would indicate that the best way to fight an overwhelming standing army is through guirella warfare over an extended amount of time. This also indicates that if a professional army gets caught up in that kind of warfare, it inevitably loses.

The changing faces of battles in the Middle East seem to be pointing towards this kind of warfare, which greatly reduces the military superiority of the two countries, which generally tend to attack the Middle East: Israel and USA.........

The USA has been completely unable to adjust to this type of warfare. They lost in Vietnam and have just about lost in Iraq. I wonder if the Israelis will be able to adjust........

Hezbollah seems to be putting up a good fight.........Israel seems to have under-estimated the resistance, much like the USA did in Iraq. There is call from the Malaysian govt. for the OIC to supply Lebanon with weapons. Over 100,000 Shias held a demonstration in favor of Hezbollah in Iraq. The Iraqi PM is supporting Hezbollah. Syria has said it is prepared for an all-out war. Hamas, a Sunni Palestinian organization, is now fully supporting Hezbollah, which is a Shia organization. Most of all the Lebanese people and the govt., itself, are supporting Hezbollah. 3000 rockets - albeit tiny ones - have been fired into Israel, so its citizens are facing shells for the first time.......Most of all, hardly any country in the world is willing to consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization.......

The fog of war is starting to take over. When this happens, things can go completely out of control. There seems to be a big change in tactics by the Arab resistance forces. They are no longer fighting pitched battles on hills in the form of organized armies. They are also not relying on suicide type attacks on opposing soldiers. They are fighting classic guirella warfare, in an organized fashion.......

The opponent is lured into their territory, where the resistance fights run and hide battles. The furthur the opponent goes into their territory, the longer the supply lines become. The more surprises they face..........

Iraqis have used this strategy very successfully against USA. And now Hezbollah is using it against Israel. Iraqis had the disadvantage of not having anyone supplying them with supplies. Hezbollah seems to have Syria and Iran to rely. Afghanis did the same against USSR. They had the additional benefit of having US Stinger missiles, and very American supply lines, through Pakistan.

To check the success of such tactics in comparison to classic army conflicts, one has to look at the following figures:

The USA was in WWI for 1 year and 7 months. In WW II for 3 years 8 months. In Korea for 3 years and 1 month. It has already been in Iraq for 3 years and four month. About as long as it was in WW II........

Israel`s six day war was Six days. The Yum Kippur war lasted 20 days. The current war between Israel and Lebanon has already gone longer than that.........

Re: # 324 by tahmed32 on August 8, 2006 6:33pm PT

And to help masadi continue his quest for knowledge, even BP (British Petroleum) was suggesting that they forgot to send pigs in all those oil pipelines that have corroded and are being shut down. For all this, gas prices will be going up at least 20 cents a gallon.

Truly, pigs have been a great asset to humanity, and this should only help masadi`s quest for knowledge.

#323 behram: Yes indeed. For verily, Masadi`s thirst for truth is greater than the rab-al-khaali`s thirst for water. :-)

Re: # 315 by tahmed32 on August 8, 2006 10:58am PT

{behram (to masadi): It takes over 500 CFM of fresh air just to get rid of one pig`s odor.

You sir are a true environmentally-conscious engineer!! and of course your comment is as precisely accurate as a slide rule used to be (until computers took over). :-)..}

And it takes more than just fresh air. They have to be provided with drops of water while they produce their litter. I thought maybe, just maybe, masadi might benefit from this knowlegde.

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317 by ChoreSahib on August 8, 2006 12:06pm PT

aap kay chootarRghamzay, naaz-O-ada, aur atkhhaliaaN iss muay bUm-dhmaakoaN vaali khabroaN kay beech hoor O ghilmaan jaisay dikhaee parRtay haiN.

MashaAllah aap hee kee duum sey CHOWK pUr bahaar cee aa gaee hai.

ShoreSahib #319 You are ten steps ahead of me since I have not studied the torah or vedas or even the new testament in any detail. checked out some Gideon`s Bibles that you find in hotel rooms across the US sometimes. But I am one step ahead of the maulvis since I have tried to understand the message of the Quran and they have not - they are quite happy to wave it around like a Book of Magic rather than as something that defines their very claim to be muslims.

And of course, one can find wisdom outside of religious books too - One of George Washington`s favorite phrases is said have been lines from the play ``Cato`` by John Addison (a popular play in 18th century USA) which goes something like this: We can`t guarantee success, but we can do something better. We can deserve it. And it is this attitude that has made America great over the past two centuries.

Re: # 318

You apparently dont either read well, or need glasses.

Ok!

READ


PREVIOUS

POSTS

Re: # 317

Tahmed Bhai,
Thank you so much for your kind and poignant words. I love the verses from the Quran, as they speak an essential truth to me that I have found in my readings of the Upanishads, the TANAK, New Testament, Dhammapada, the Vedas, and the Bhagavad Gita.

Hope that good things come your way.....

Asim

#311 by ShoreSahib

Shore Sahib,

Why don`t you answer my biblical question as to what happened to the incestuous offspring of Lot and his daughters? Where are they now?

Neither did you answer Masadi as to how much Isaac`s blood is remaining in the people who kidnapped `women children` of opponents to copulate with them?

Please cut the BS and answer these questions.

Thanks.

shoresahib #314 you quoted some favorite lines of mine from the Quran. And these are among the reasons why I always stress individual responsibilty before God . Which is the very anti-thesis this mindless ``muslim ummah`` mob-mentality promoted by maulvis.

That is why I find so offensive to see the Quran in the hands of these miserable group of pawns for bearded politicians in Pakistan that are included in a post below from arjun: they drag the Quran into their stupid politics while having no concern for its teachings!!

Re: # 313

I am not at work anymore. I am home!
:)

behram (to masadi): It takes over 500 CFM of fresh air just to get rid of one pig`s odor.

You sir are a true environmentally-conscious engineer!! and of course your comment is as precisely accurate as a slide rule used to be (until computers took over). :-)

``On the Day when every soul will be confronted with all the good it has done, and all the evil it has done, it will wish there were a great distance between it and its evil. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself. And Allah is full of kindness to those that serve Him.``

surah 3:30 The Family of Imran
(Abdullah Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur`an, Amana Corporation, 1989.)

That Day shall We set a seal on their mouths. But their hands will speak to us, and their feet bear witness, to all that they did.

surah 36:65 Ya-sin
(Abdullah Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur`an, Amana Corporation, 1989.)


``On the Day when their tongues, their hands, and their feet will bear witness against them as to their actions.``

surah 24:24
(Abdullah Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur`an, Amana Corporation, 1989.)

shoresahib: seems like we came to chowk at the same time. Seems like you are having a slow day at work today. but your civilized, intelligent posts are always good to read.

zeemax: thanks for your comments. strong words (``cockroach``, ``munafiqeen``) are useful only if you wish to use words as weapons - in which case they are nothing more than empty words - and not as a means of communication.

For His Holiness Ayotollah Zeemax,

Hazoor-e-Walah,

Arzi pesh kartey hein hum aap ki khidmat mein. GHAUR SEY SUNO!!!!!

This comment is so deplorable and disgusting...that I have decided to not address you in the future. Please join your friend Masadi amongst the elect who will at the right hand of ALLAH in the hereafter, and let us sinners be damned to the deepest pits of Fiery Hell with Walls of Flames closing in on us, Very Surah Al Qari`ah!

So befitting an end to us so called haters of Islam....Such a just punishment from the god of Islam judging on his behalf ``al Rijl As Saleh`` like yourself.

Now leave me and the other sinners to our fate of Al Qari`ah and go do Allah`s work for him before Al- Yaum al Qiyamah. I hope the Al Kursi is comfortable, after all you are interning for Allah beyong the Sidra tul Muntaha.......

Re: # 306

This comment is so deplorable and disgusting...that I have decided to not address you in the future. Please join your friend Masadi amongst the elect who will at the right hand of ALLAH in the hereafter, and let us sinners be damned to the deepest pits of Fiery Hell with Walls of Flames closing in on us, Very Surah Al Qari`ah!

So befitting an end to us so called haters of Islam....Such a just punishment from the god of Islam judging on his behalf ``al Rijl As Saleh`` like yourself.

Now leave me and the other sinners to our fate of Al Qari`ah and go do Allah`s work for him before Al- Yaum al Qiyamah. I hope the Al Kursi is comfortable, after all you are interning for Allah beyong the Sidra tul Muntaha.......

Re: # 298

Unlike some of you, I have a life, and work!

I was taking care of a young mentally retarded Jewish boy with Cerebral Palsy today.

Have faith,

The answer to your question arrives very soon!

Re: # 273 by masadi on August 7, 2006 8:54pm PT

Dear Masadi:

You know that I love you, because you are a religious person, and are unable to use your intellect. A believer like yourself can not use the rational side to explain society.

{Once again, the bigot does not deal with a single issue or argument but responds with ad hominem and imagining things about me.}

Actually, you are a religious fanatic and by definition a bigot. So, there you have it.

What gibberrish, how can that be? Your rational mind can never define God, it is totally illogical.

{.... even though I rejected the theology of both and rationally discovered Islam for myself via the Quran based upon intellectual and logical criteria. }

{If you have to take on the intellectual/religious debate take it to the intellectuals of the West many of whom, especially the ones that laid the foundation of the rennaissance were believers in the illogical/unjust mumbo jumbo theology of Christianity~ unlike my
acceptance of the God concept based on strictly logical and scientific grounds. }

Wah, ray wah... heads you win and tails I lose....and this is your double speak. No religious person can be rational. For a rational person religion has to be secondary. But, you are brain dead, anyway.

{You on the other hand are a worst bigot than any ``fundamentalist`` you talk about. }

If I am a bigot, then at least I am authentic, whereas you are not. At a drop of hat, being a fanatic muslim, you will kill me, because of my rational mind. And then you will justify it through your religious teachings, and hence create the mumbo jumbo that you are so good amongst the kids.


{A few months back you and I had a discussion on Israel and you were adamant in support of it and its belligerance which you are now condemning based solely on partisanship and not any logical/just/moral criteria. }


I am still a supporter of Israel and its values in the middle east. Whereas, you being a fanatic muslim, you twist and turn and grunt like a pig. Do you know how much odor pig creates in its surrounding? FYI....It takes over 500 CFM of fresh air just to get rid of one pig`s odor.


{Finally, I do not claim to be an ``intellectual``, just a straight thinking ordinary human being who can use evidence to arrive at conclusions.}

We all knew that you have no worth to your intellect, because you have none. And I being suggesting this all along. Just quit your rational side, and expose your fundamental religious values and be proud of what you are.... a beleiver.

{ So, gather up your bs and take a hike. } You have already surrendered, and that has always been my Persian superiority. No wonder you can never a clarity of thoughts with being a child of Shia/Sunni heritage. No wonder you take refuge in compalining about the US Power Elite.

{Respectfully submitted,}

Thank you.

Respectfully submitted,

....#306....

And that goes for the Islam haters in the Munafiqeen camp as well .....

#304 by tahmed32

Actually this cokroach is right. What is written is correct. It means Muslims will screw them with condoms because they`re infested with all kinds of venereal diseases.

#301 by tahmed32

LoL tahmed. That was a good one ... even if I may say so ....

#299 so what else do you expect from these clowns? what i find insulting is the way this miserable group drags the Quran into their stupid politics, and hold it up as if they actually have any concern for the teachings of the Quran. :-(

of course - this linking of the Quran - and therefore of Islam - with this group of cannon fodder for the bearded politicians of Pakistan is music to the ears of an islam hater like you.

So the Apartheid status has begun for Indian Muslims.

Wonderful. Now India is really going down the drain....wait for the fireworks.....

Economic superpower? It will be trampled underfoot ...

From The Asian Age, Aug 8

Mumbai: Probe Muslims who travel

The Maharashtra government has issued a directive to the state police to thoroughly investigate every Muslim who travels abroad.

Senior executives in multinationals are being visited at their residences by police inspectors asking questions, demanding to see copies of their passports and insisting on letters from the executives’ employers certifying the travel.

A vice-president of the largest multinational in India, living in a posh colony of Mumbai, told this newspaper that he was at home when two police inspectors visited his residence demanding to see him. When they learnt he was not there they left instructions with his family that he should visit the police station with details of his passport and travel abroad. However, before entering his house, the policemen questioned his staff outside the residence to find out his movements.

Well-placed sources said that a directive had been issued by the government and the state police had to act on it. Every Muslim, the sources said, were under close watch and had to provide proof of his travel as well as letters justifying it as and when approached by the police. Social activists in Mumbai claim that ``thousands`` of Muslims have been arrested from different parts of the city in the wake of the Mumbai blasts with the police refusing to give details, or even the proof required for the detention.

A group of 18 MPs, cutting across party lines, met Prime Minister Manmohan Singh recently to draw his attention to the large-scale arrests and urged his immediate intervention. Prime Minister Singh is reported to have shared their concerns and, according to the MPs, said that if Muslims were indeed being harassed in the manner suggested by the MPs, it was ``a very serious matter``. He said that the hands of the terrorists would be strengthened if innocent Muslims were humiliated. He said he would take up the matter and urged the MPs to meet Union home minister Shivraj Patil. Nothing has come of this till date.

It could not be ascertained if the directive covered Muslims travelling to all parts of the world, or just to select targeted countries. The Americans already have a system in place where the airlines have to supply them with the passenger list and details of those travelling to the US as soon as a particular flight takes off. Sources said these rules have been made more stringent now. Social activists from Mumbai, who did not want to be quoted at this stage as they would come under ``needless pressure``, said there was fear and anger amongst the minorities over the large-scale arrests and their total inability to seek justice. ``The arrests have not led the authorities to solve the Mumbai blasts, but that has not stopped them from rounding up any and every one whose only crime might be that he did not grease the hands of the beat policeman,`` the activists said.

Muslim executives, who are furious with the attitude of the police, have been told that there is little they can but do but ``cooperate`` in the face of a government directive. Senior police officers also expressed their inability to do anything with every Muslim living in the state now being flagged as and when he travels abroad. The only concession that the police can make, the sources said, ``is interrogate them at their residence instead of getting them over to the police station``.

Mumbai police commissioner A.N. Roy has confirmed a large number of arrests, but refused to give an exact figure when questioned by journalists. Despite the arrests, the anti-terror squad of the Mumbai police remains clueless about the identity of those who carried out the seven serial blasts on July 11, 2006. The Mumbai police has openly admitted that Muslim men who visited West Asia were suspects. Several such men have been picked up with little more proof except that they visited the ``suspect`` region on work. The sources said that employees of smaller companies, when questioned or detained, could, and were, losing their jobs.

Re: # 280

Masadi, the arab goo-chaater living on morsels thrown by Goras, writes:

> Unfortunately for your dumb argument, at the time of partition there were no recent
> ``outside implants`` who were dispossessing the locals through colonial decree

You have modified a wrong to suit your own little theory ... Would Israel have been ok if it
had forcibly converted the muslims to Judaism ? In any case even the Israelis are not
recent implants.. The state is no half a century old ... and many of the jews in it have been
living on that land for a much more period of time ....

There were Jews who wanted the state of Israel, the same way there were muslims who
wanted Pukistan .... wats the difference .... and both the states had British blessings ...

Now go home ... Your Gori owner might be lookng for you in the park .... !

#300 thankfully the christians & Jews have grown out of it ....

er..ahem...about those 10,000 catholic priests.....

Re: # 298

> This proves two points: (1) After Israelites were killed by plague, they took non-`chosen`
> slave girls for procreation; and (2) Jews were the biggest paedophiles of them ALL!

I always suspected these abrahimic religions to be built upon paed0philes ,,,,,thankfully the
christians & Jews have grown out of it ....

:P

Freudian slip...We Pakis, we condoms...

#295 by masadi

Excellent points. Particularly this :

`` 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. ``

This proves two points: (1) After Israelites were killed by plague, they took non-`chosen` slave girls for procreation; and (2) Jews were the biggest paedophiles of them ALL!

Thanks masadi. Why is our biblical scholar so quiet? Lost his `shores`?

a message for masadi, boom box and partners (excuse me URSTRULy and Co)

there is one and only one truth....the rest is well not true

#294, <<< If Mr. Shoresahib is so confident of biblical `facts`, perhaps he would like to enilghten us as to what became of the tribe born of the incestuous relationship between Lot and his daughters >>>

Yes, and we would like to know how much Issac was left in the Israelites after this type of intermingling:

Numbers 31:
``
15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. ``

#293 by masadi

If Mr. Shoresahib is so confident of biblical `facts`, perhaps he would like to enilghten us as to what became of the tribe born of the incestuous relationship between Lot and his daughters after Sodom/Gomorrah were destroyed and his wife had turned to stone .... and who and where are those people now?

shoresahib writes

<<< Last time I checked.......Abraham lived in the Mid East only 4000 years ago and Israelite history is well documented.... >>>

Firstly, your checking was wrong, there is no historical documentation to provide a time for when Abraham lived, neither is there anything well documented about the history of the Abrahamic era, absolutely nothing. Even a mighty structure as Solomon`s temple from much later cannot be scientifically established. In fact the earliest occurrence of the name of Abraham in the Ebla tablets deviates from the Biblical timeline by 1500 years. Next there is absolutely no proof that the Jews are the descendents of Issac and the Arabs the descendents of Ishmael except on the authority of the Bible, a religious authority which is an ahistorical and in most cases nonsense document which cannot be trusted~ the Quran does not follow this line of descent anywhere. Finally, please inform us how many generations define 4000 years- yeah do your google search and then let us know- and then tell me if after so many generations in far flung geographic regions and migration, people can be defined as actual exclusive descendents of the first generation.

Your total education upto this time, given the way you are composing your material has been, as you say, ``a load of crap``. In other words your BS has been BS!

Mr. Masadi,

Keep telling yourself your total load of crap!!!!!!!!

Last time I checked.......Abraham lived in the Mid East only 4000 years ago and Israelite history is well documented....

I really suggest that you read a book on the history of ancient Israel before you spout off your run of the mill Muslim garbage....

As far as Ashkenazi or Sephardic Jews are concerned.....your response to Jews and their origin whether it be Germanic or MidEastern...a relatively new phenomenon nevertheles, has absolutely no bearing on whether how much Jewish they are.....

Its so amazing to notice the ignorance..I have a suggestion!

Please do not, and I repeat do not address me in the future.....

Do keep your absolutely brilliant point of views to yourself, and refrain from responding to mine....My views are not meant for people like you.....

Now shoo...Go away... and do whatever you do.....Ughh!

Re: # 288 and yet you live of the West. If you were in your god fearing countries you would be behind bars. Keep on at it as long as you are here in the west.

Re: # 288 Masadi you are a mixed up person...clear your sinuses. Now be a good boy and stop mixing rethoric of godless marx with GOD fearing religion.

Its a free market of ideas. Just because no one buys yours dont get into a strop

Re: # 287
thanks zeemax for your civility compared to your other brother in arms. #286 shows a rather mixedup view. I find it interesting. you see you say

Is it the resources of the muslims or the resources of the people living in those lands?

The latter is true. The people living in those lands. It however happens that the overwhelming majority are Muslims, hence the generalization


And yet you are scared as hell about the WEST where the majority are not Muslims and where the Governements bend over backwards to treat as an EQUAL CITIZEN OF THEIR LANDS.

See the problem appears to be that YOU THINK THE WEST AND WESTERNERS THINK LIKE YOU (a reflection of this is the answer above). Unfortunately it is not the case however much you try and create a situation where this comes about. despite 911, the July Bombings etc Muslims have not been treated badly, in fact the UK seems to be a place where the state has gone an extra mile to accomodate the Muslims. I went to the toilets in Manchester (as i said earlier i visited the UK recently), and found Islamic toilets there. I even found the restaurant was providing Halal food, I also found various govt offices accomodating every wish ofthe Muslims, with urdu and arabic annoucements everywhere.

Look at the middle east would you find anything in hindi or Urdu there. A friend of mine went visitng arabia. the poor sod was a Hindu and he was carrying a gita in his brief case. This was removed unceremonously from him and destroyed (torn and lit up) in front of him. I donot think such a situation would be prevalet in the west. but then I fgorget Hindus donot exist as human beings in your map. (i am not a hindu before you start jumping up and down).

Thanks for your answers. I am sure you will find your space and make your peace with your maker and self at some point. Only plese donot make it a public spectacle- every life is to be cherished.

Iron_mask writes <<< In general YOU AS A MUSLIM HAVE FAR MORE RIGHTS HERE IN THE WEST THAN YOU AS A DESI MUSLIM WOULD HAVE IN YOUR FAVOURITE LANDS OF ARABIA. Indeed Muslims in the west HAVE FAR MORE GREATER SET OF RIGHTS THAN NON MUSLIMS HAVE IN THE MUSLIMS LANDS. So stop cribbing so much. >>>

Iron_mask`s conclusion as his other rants are based more on stereotypical nonsense and a myopic worldview than much else. The West (the colonials and now the US) transformed the world into a few developed nations while the rest are ghettos, maintained at their discretion or all the benefits of monopoly development that they enjoy will evaporate, and we have see how violent they become when those are threatened.

In these ghettos, around the globe, the ``ghetto lords`` reign, they drive around in rich fancy cars and live in mansions much like the drug dealers in Harlem and other AA ghettos in the US. It is not the people nor their religion that determines such behavior. Whenever their reign is threatened and the ghetto tries to do something about its people, the so-called enlightened outsiders step in to consolidate the power of these thugs.

The color (racial) line that the Saudi `apartheid` system follows in their labor market in a dejure fashion is directly borrowed from the color line implemented in the US in a defacto fashion, it is totally alien to that area and to Islam, it is borrowed from those whose race consciousness is second to none the white European colonials and American neo-colonials. A second reason is the makeup of the labor force they get, based upon which they come to view people the way they do (based upon class more so than race, which is equally dispicable and quite common in the US). How African Americans and Mexicans get treated in the US and how South Asians and Arabs are relegated to ghettos in the UK and other European areas because of defacto racial exclusion is much worse than anything the Saudis or other Muslim lands can muster:

Now, point to me even one of these ghetto societies in which fully one third of the population of a group have been through the criminal justice system and are labelled as ``criminals`` across the board as the African Americans are in the US, or worse still the natives that were depopulated in ALL of the white settler states? Name one where the life expectancy of minorities in a Muslim land for some groups is 20 years less than the mainstream population or where the poverty rates are double that compared to the majority. No matter how hard you try, and you have no info other than BS, you will never such numbers. Except for sensationalized cases now and then, the minorities are not disproportionately affected by poverty in most of these ghetto ``Muslim`` lands, they suffer equally.

#284/2855 by iron_mask

You had asked specific questions which I answered in #282. Now if you`ld like to argue back & forth over those answers, sorry I`m not interested.

Thanks for a civil exchange.

#283 by iron_mask

Is it the resources of the muslims or the resources of the people living in those lands?

The latter is true. The people living in those lands. It however happens that the overwhelming majority are Muslims, hence the generalization.

What have those people given to the desi muslims?

What do Desi Muslims want from them? Please answer so I can explore further. Also, what have the Desi Muslims done for them? Even now these Desis are cheering-on the bombings of civilians for the sake of their two-car-garages (terminology credit=faisaluno).

Why is it that in those lands Muslims are discriminated against? (I am not talking of rulers but the people themselves do it on a daily basis)

This is your conjecture. I do not share your opinion which I find bigoted. Pakistani Muslims are very highly placed in the state-owned as well as private financial sectors of the entire UAE / Saudi / Kuwait / Bahrain etc.; as are indeed the Indians.

Your last para does not require a response. It is upto you what you think.

Re: # 284
to cont....apologies for this...I kepp getting interrupted....

your thought that losing this war will ensure that Western Muslims will be subject to discrimination and apartheid is just a hand waving thing and its all in the mind. The west is built around the rule of law and rational thinking. IF youwant o place yourself above and beyond this you will be prosecuted. If you want to keep yourself seperate from the aminstream - the west gives you that right to do so. If you want to integrate than the wets gives that right as well. All it asks of you is to be a productive member of the society, if you are not a productive member you need to have a damn good reason for this.

Fear causes you to take on these positions, positions which lead to more difficulties and are dead-ended. Progress is zero. You need to break free from these shackles.

remember the West GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO GHETTOISE YOURSELF OR BREAK FREE. You are treated equally before the law, and everyone has the same rights. RIghts in the west are not dependent on your religious or political persuasion as they are in the lands occupied by the Arabs or Muslims in general.

Re: # 282
This is a split part answer reply - you say
Plus, Muslims residing abroad in western countries will be subjected to `apartheid`. Thus, at stake is the very future welfare of my children.
The muslims are not subjected to apartheid as much as non muslims and muslims from other lands are subjected to in YOUR FAVOURITE LANDS OF ARABIA

In general Muslims in the west have far more freedom to express their veiw points than they have in Any Muslim Country you care to Name and mention. Muslims in the west have the law behind them to ensure that they get same treatment as the rest of the population. If the Muslims want to ghettosie themselves then that is an issue they have to resolve themselves. I recently visited in Bradford in England. The place is depressing. These people living in england cannot even string together more than afew words of english having lived in England for more than 3 decades.

The solution lies within, the fear of assimilation and progress turns the ghetoisation process into a self-fulfilling one. You see Demons everywhere.

In general YOU AS A MUSLIM HAVE FAR MORE RIGHTS HERE IN THE WEST THAN YOU AS A DESI MUSLIM WOULD HAVE IN YOUR FAVOURITE LANDS OF ARABIA. Indeed Muslims in the west HAVE FAR MORE GREATER SET OF RIGHTS THAN NON MUSLIMS HAVE IN THE MUSLIMS LANDS. So stop cribbing so much.

Re: # 282
Interesting answers. Thank you for clearly stating your position. What is more intersting is your answer to the last question

(f)What is there in it for You?

If Israel gets its way, Muslims will lose sovereignty over most of their natural resources, biggest of which is oil. Plus, they`ll lose any future defensive capability against any aggression from any adversary. Plus, Muslims residing abroad in western countries will be subjected to `apartheid`. Thus, at stake is the very future welfare of my children.


this answer begs a few questions, and I am genuinely asking this - not for some fire works but out of interest not some idle curiosity.

Is it the resources of the muslims or the resources of the people living in those lands?
What have those people given to the desi muslims?
Why is it that in those lands Muslims are discriminated against? (I am not talking of rulers but thepeople themselves doit on a daily basis)

You answer to question (a) is also reveiling in that you seem to be asking that the Muslims take on the leadership role of the weak in this world? Have you ever asked yourself whether the weak really want your leadership? Finally, you seem to be mixing the rethoric of godless Marxism with the God Fearing religion.

#255 by iron_mask

Since you keep harping upon your 6 questions, I will adress these just as you request. However first let me clear some cobwebs from your mind :

Who said the following?

1) Israel was born in `Sin`. But the only person who was born free of `Sin` was Jesus.
2) Roughly 6-7% of the land Israel now possesses was actually bought by Jews, and that too from effendis in Istanbul. The peasants on those lands were subsequently evicted.
3) All the state institutions and organs etc of Israel were already put in place by the British during 1936-1939, and Arabs had been defeated. 1948 was merely a declaration.

You may think all this was said by some Muslim ...? No. This was all said by Shlomo Ben- Ami, the ex-foreign minister of Israel, in his book ``Scars of War, Wounds of Peace``.

So, the illegitimacy of the state of Israel was never in dispute, nor is it now. It was never in dispute that the zionists evicted the local population and transferred their lands in their own name and continue to do so. What IS in dispute however is that what, if any, rights do the evicted population have? And what means it can employ to get back some of those rights?

Now for your questions (properly re-numbered):

(a) What does this conflict in the Middle East mean to you?

It means everything for everyone in the thirld world, though it is of more immediate concern to S.E. Asian Muslims because of the regional proximity. In the end the outcome will determine whether the weak have the basic right of survival or not.

(b) Why do you want a cease fire?

Who said I want a cease-fire? It is the OIC which wants a cease-fire, not the Muslim public. This war must determine once and for all whether Israel has an unchallenged claim over the entire M.E. region.

(c) Do you really believe a cease fire will hold?

No cease-fire will hold unless and until all occupied properties are returned and there`s a viable Palestinian state with East-Jerusalem as its capital.

(d) If ``yes`` Why?

The question is moot in view of (c).

(e) if ``no`` why will not hold, and what will make it hold?

Refer to (c) above. With the additional proviso .....``for the time being ...`` Ultimately, Israel will have to be relocated elsewhere in the world.

(f)What is there in it for You?

If Israel gets its way, Muslims will lose sovereignty over most of their natural resources, biggest of which is oil. Plus, they`ll lose any future defensive capability against any aggression from any adversary. Plus, Muslims residing abroad in western countries will be subjected to `apartheid`. Thus, at stake is the very future welfare of my children.

Satisfied?

Re: # 279 strip the verbal baggage from galloway`s statements - and the core is this

``there can be no meaningful ceasefire``

So what is the diference between his stand and that of the BB combine. Indeed between all the parties. If this is the case why have a cease fire.

guess what whilethe Israelis and the Hizb are grabing the headlines - your brothers in Iraq are killing more of you brothers. Indeed there have been more muslims killed by muslims there and I am yet to see anything from you condemning this. But I guess its too much to expect from a blind person like you.

abcd writes <<< Ah! You mean like the implants from outside India who have dispossessed native Indians for centuries? >>>

Unfortunately for your dumb argument, at the time of partition there were no recent ``outside implants`` who were dispossessing the locals through colonial decree- there were indigeneous Hindus and Muslims and others. A different religious preference from the majority religion does not transform an indigeneous person into a foreign implant.

#256 by iron_mask

This post reflects precisely the mental block that Galloway was referring to. I don`t know from where you extracted the impression that ``Meaningful cease-fire was his cry``. He says quite clearly that the UN resolution will achieve nothing, the war will go on, and the interviewer will have a job in Jerusalem for a long time, until ALL occupied territories are returned. He also said IDF is getting a hiding. He said all that and still you got a completely different message.

Clean out your ears of wax and watch that clip again.

#277 by masadi

[It is the implants trying through force of arms, helped by the US elite, to dispossess the indigeneous folk, and dominate the entire region.]


Ah! You mean like the implants from outside India who have dispossessed native Indians for centuries?

ShoreSahib

<<< As I see it, its the greedy Semitic sons of Ismael and Issac that cant agree on how to divide land between themselves.......... >>>>

An extremely simplistic/false rendition of a reletively modern conflict between the implanted state of Israel and the indigeneous people of Palestine. Neither are the Jews the sons of Issac nor the Arabs the sons of Ishmael, so many generations have passed since that time that only God knows whose sons and daughters they are. It is not a religious conflict by any definition, neither do the secular jews that hold command positions in Israel deal with it in that, way except as a rallying point for manipulation. And the source of the greed in that region lies beyond the oceans with the American elite and their manipulations in that area. IT is not about ``dividing`` the land among themselves, as if both were indigeneous to the area. It is the implants trying through force of arms, helped by the US elite, to dispossess the indigeneous folk, and dominate the entire region. That and not Issac/Ishmael are the roots of this relatively new, less than a century old, fight in the Middle East.

#238 by Salim_Chauhan

[If the evil land-grabbing kaffirs stop victimizing our ``garbage,`` we will be able to take care of the substantial number who have already lost their homes, their relatives, their possessions, and most importantly their hopes. Perhaps it`s time for the land grabbing to cease. ]


Ah! So THAT`S the root cause, then. Uh-huh. Land grabbing kaffirs.

Umm..er..if you would list the jehadi hot-spots around the globe and the corresponding land-grabs, maybe we can put this difficult subject to rest.

I`ll be waiting for your response.

Thanks!

Aah the Spoils of War! Les Innocents!

For Abeer Qassim Hamza al-Janabi.......A Prayer
O Daughter of Iraq
May your soul rest in peace
With tears in my eyes, I pray
May Allah smile upon you
and admit you in the elect
in the company of Mary, the Virgin
Amina, the mother of the messenger
Khadijah, the mother of the Muslims
may Fatimah, the Chaste
always smile upon you.....

Re: # 272

``Hezbollah: Model for Manliness — Joanna Francis ``

Hezbollahs are heejra mullahs.............low on self respect in the modern world and without honor or respect for any human being

behram writes in #239 <<< Dear masadi:

Of course you speak to soothe your confused intellect. You have yet to clarify to yourself whether you are an intellectual or a religious fundamentalist believer. Being a wahabbi muslim you have waffled on both sides of the issue. >>>

Once again, the bigot does not deal with a single issue or argument but responds with ad hominem and imagining things about me. Your stereotypes aside, I am not, never have been, never plan to be a ``wahabbi``. Most in my family were shias, many were sunni but not of the wahabbi brand, even though I rejected the theology of both and rationally discovered Islam for myself via the Quran based upon intellectual and logical criteria. If you have to take on the intellectual/religious debate take it to the intellectuals of the West many of whom, especially the ones that laid the foundation of the rennaissance were believers in the illogical/unjust mumbo jumbo theology of Christianity~ unlike my acceptance of the God concept based on strictly logical and scientific grounds. You on the other hand are a worst bigot than any ``fundamentalist`` you talk about. A few months back you and I had a discussion on Israel and you were adamant in support of it and its belligerance which you are now condemning based solely on partisanship and not any logical/just/moral criteria. Finally, I do not claim to be an ``intellectual``, just a straight thinking ordinary human being who can use evidence to arrive at conclusions. So, gather up your bs and take a hike.

Respectfully submitted,

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Re: # 258

``Hezbollah fighters move like shadows across the mountains of southern Lebanon; its workers in
towns and villages, equally as ghostly, have settled deeply into people`s lives.

They pay medical bills, offer health insurance, pay school fees and make money available for small businesses. They are invisible but omnipresent, providing essential services that the Lebanese government, after years of war, was incapable of offering. ``

This is pure propaganda from a Robinhood style of justice...............who is Hezbollah accountable to? Does it know how to govern?

Nasrallah claims to provide leadership- Can he provide jobs to his people? What does he know about modern economy? What does he know about scientific institutions? What does he know about international trade ? What does he know about modern corporations? What does he know about living peacefully with his neighbours? Ask him and you wouod know that he is an incompetent mullah who is taking the entire nation for a ride.......and the press is helping him in his propaganda..............

Re: # 261

``professor and a descendant of Shiite clerics. “He’s like the circus magician who pulls the rabbit out of his hat and always knows exactly who is his audience.”``

He is indeed a circus clown who pulls up a few magic tricks to fool the gullible muslims of his country.........

Re: # 261

``...maintaining that all Jewish immigrants should return to their countries of origin ``

How is this rascal Nasrallah different from the right wingers in Western Countries who demand the same from the immigrant muslims and other communities???

Re: # 261

``“He has all the power; the government has no cards in its hand,” said Jad al-Akhaoui, the media adviser to a Lebanese cabinet minister. “He keeps saying that he supports the prime minister, but there has been no translation in the field, nothing has stopped. The decision is still Hezbollah’s decision.”``

Every concerned moderate muslim must read this carefully. THIS IS the original design of these terrorist groups....to topple civilian rule and take control over democracies to enforce their version of totalitarian Islam........................every moderate muslim must come together and defeat tehm because they are going to come after us next................

Re: 264

Lo! Behold, the real Ayat ul Allah`s for the Fake ones!~

The signs of God!!!!!

Is mankind blind?

Do the Ayotallahs not see?

Summun, Bukmun, Ummun, Fahum La YarJa`oon!

Deaf, Dumb, Blind, They will not reach for the right path!~

Re: # 264

Well said............the blame lies squarely on the mullah jamat and the non-muslim right winger everywhere which welcome escalation of communal tension on a world wide scale, bring more violence to the level of wars between nations so that the wolves can rule.....................only if Hezbollah was neutralized by the Lebanese government Nasrallah would have been reduced to a stupid foaming mullah........Lebanese let him indulge in his stupidities and are now paying the price........this is a lesson for all for us miderate muslims...............

Re: # 248


``Pakis` ``war on kufr``[WOK] has moved on from yahoods to hinoods to indian muslims.... :)``

That is exactly the latest game plan of the Islamists across the border which every thinking hindu like you must understand . The Pakistanis find IM-s ``weird`` because they are yet to be like them in their understanding of Jehad ................... for those across the border Jehad is to kill for partition and their co-religionist...............IM-s have rejected their character a long time back and prefer to live peacefully and conduct their Jehads with the evil inside themselves only..............yes we are weird ........

As I see it, its the greedy Semitic sons of Ismael and Issac that cant agree on how to divide land between themselves..........

The Egos of Circumcised Men on Both sides of the Jordan attached to the size of their phalluses, and who has the bigger one?

A Veritable Pissing Match, to see who can piss the most on and the Holy Land!!!!

Both belong to the same house, Banai Israel! Both Children of Abraham Abaa-e-Israel and both shedding each other`s blood for lifeless sand...How befitting the Chosen people of Allah, El, Elohim, YHWH!

C`est Magnifique!

does it matter? The big dog says hezbollah is a terrorist group and that`s how it is..

Just like the big dog said the indigenous freedom fighters of the Lashkar-e-Toiba were terrorists and Pakiland had to go along...

Not sure if the US congress has passed a law sanctioning American and international banks that do business with hezbollah or it`s fronts...if they haven`t, they should....

Does anyone have any exact info on how many countries consider Hezbollah to be a terrorist organization? I am trying to get a final list.......

I have always tried to do some research to find how much of the rhetoric in the media, both on the US/Israel and the Arab side, is actually accurate. Generally, the word, ``terrorist`` is thrown around for groups that are in conflict with the political interests of any country that is occupying land or is carrying out an attack. For example the Hezbollah is refered to as a terrorist organization, so many times on US media that I think pretty much every American thinks that the whole world considers them a terrorist organization.

However, what is the truth? How many countries of the world consider Hezbollah to be a terrorist organization? From whatever I could find, there are more countries that do not recognize Israel as a state, than there are who consider Hezbollah to be a terrorist organization........

So far, I have only found USA and Israel to be the two countries that consider all aspects of Hezbollah to be a terrorist organization. And four other countries that consider some parts of it to be a terrorist organization.........The 56 Muslim countries do not consider it a terrorist organization. EU doens`t. Russia doesn`t. China doesn`t. etc.

I personally think Hezbollah has committed civilian killings. However, Israel has committed far more. Statistically, almost ten times more. So there is terrorism built into both sides, which should be acknowledged by everyone. If anyone has any additional info on this, kindly share it, as I would like to get more detailed facts. e.g. does India consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization?

Middle East