The Death of a Nawab

#349 by VRV

LoL ... VRV ... just as GT said, you are going through a baptism of fire .....

But you have potential .... good looking ? Huh ... I`m sure ....

AND ... We are not related. Regardless of what hamidm used to say about grandpa gopinath and all the BS, see how one can easily tell apart on a western street who is a hindian and who is a Pak.

Now, take my advice. You might fail your exams.

Re: # 356

Zee,


>>>>>AND ... We are not related. <<<

This is the basis for us to fight and I do enjoy fights........streets, chat or boardrooms. No, we are not related, we belong to two different worlds.......two different outlooks. Sure u r right!

If I fail my exams, I owe it to you. Bloody your posts are compelling to glue to his site......

Lets keep the fight going.......I dont need lard, though :-))

The ``quality`` of interacts has simply changed with time. I do not see more or less ``gaali-galoch``. The form might have changed. I also think that it is healthy for people to take out their frustrations, irritations etc.

On a different note. A photograph was put up by zeemax. Everyone felt disgusted with the poor villagers. Everyone assumed that they were disrespecting the dead body. Guys tell me something: How do you retrieve a body, that of a deer or that of a king, from thick bush? In a coffin? The villagers may not have been disrespecting the body at all, friend or enemy. If you want to blame anyone, blame rediff.com for trying to incite trouble.

Stop praising a man that doesn`t need praises. He used to receive 700 million rupees in royalities from oil and gas company every year. A sour relationship with the companies led to his death. India supported him full fledge and when he died, they condemed him. Hahaha! I would love to see their faces when we condemn Dawood ``bhai`` Ibrahim`s death, whevern that would be, just for a joke to see their reaction.

I would appreciate comments from our worthy interactors on #338.

Is there a difference?

If there is, what?

To me it seems the only difference is Taliban are beating (alleged) prostitutes, while police in Patna is beating aspiring female medical students. India is really shining?

For your convenience so you don`t have to go back and forth, I`ll reproduce it:

Taliban beating street-walkers with a stick.


Indian police beating female medical students with a stick.

Re: # 353 by zeemax:

``Is there a difference?``

No.

dost-mittar..........no, i don`t think the judiciary will stand up on the big decisions. nor has it ever stood up. nor will it stand up in the future. however a portion of the judiciary does tend to stand up. about one-third of the supreme court resigned when musharraf asked for the pco. which is why i said it was half a success. not a full one. prevoiusly, the supreme court did overturn nawaz sharif`s removal also. and another chief justice took on nawaz sharif, until his own judges turned against him.........

something else i got from the horse`s mouth. the chief justice was going to overturn musharraf`s decision of the coup. he had full plans, but apprently hesitated and by the time he was ready, it was too late........

a better way to phrase it would be that the higher judiciary of pakistan did not turn out to be as big a disappointment as i had thought. barring martial laws etc., they do, apparently, take some decent and fair decisions, in day to day affairst. and people still have faith in them, to a great extent. which is why senior lawyers to pretty good business in pakistan. people will only pay a lawyer high prices, if they have faith in the judiciary. the figure i was given was that in 90% of the cases, they adjudicate fairly, while in 10% then may do some underhand stuff.........not bad i guess........

the lower sesssion level judiciary is apparently not too good........

there is only one group in pakistan with guts that i found: journalists. they really take on the establishment. and portray the view of the underdog. and this is one group that the military and civlian leaders tend to fear. in some cases, they have been tortured and killed also. according to what i found out, a journalist`s body was recently discovered. he was the first guy to report that it was the usa which had fired missiles and killed people in baujur(?) soon after he disappeared, and three months later was found dead. assumed killed by the pakistan govt. and/or us military........

the current supreme court`s decision in the steel mill case was quite historic. it led to an attempted vote of no-confidence against the prime minister.

interestingly the civil service - the most powerful day to day group - of pakistan is also very scared of the judiciary. this includes the police etc. which i consider a good sign. barring musharraf and his corps commanders, everyone else in power is quite intimidated by the superior judiciary, i noticed. which is probably also a good sign......

this is not to say that the judicial system is good. far from it. it is just better than other state institutions, like police, etc. and is probably the glue, along with a high economic growth rate, which is keeping the country stable..........

the one judiciary, which has totally lost its marbles is the military judiciary. it is a farce if i ever saw one. completely dictated to my the coas. this includes NAB, also. having said that, the civilian judiciary has apparently taken a stand against NAB and overturns most of their decisions. due to which the military, never sends NAB cases to the high courts. it keeps people in jail for years and then just releases them..........without letting their cases go up, immediately. this is how musharraf formed his whole pml(q) party. literally each and everyone is there, because of fear of being jailed by NAB.............and NAB is headed by a serving lt. gen.!

so musharraf is basically the head of the executive (in fact a one-man executive). he is the head of the judiciary, as the lower NAB courts are run by his lt. general. these courts can jail anyone, as a parallel system outside the normal judiciary. and he has the legislature under his thumb completely as they are scared of going to jail, under nab, if they don`t support him...............

the military has quite a few torture cells also. this was quite surprising and disheartening. torture is now becoming a norm in the army, and air force (don`t know about the navy). they torture their own personnel and civilians. every third politician i met said he had been tortured in some manner by the military. by every third, i literally mean every third!

and these tortures are like abu-ghuraib type tortures. beatings, ants, deisel fuel, shoving things up body parts etc. this is normal. both soldiers who had been punished by military courts and politicians mentioned it as if it was no big deal. ``so and so major picked me up and beat me.`` ``nab picked me up and locked me in a dungeon type place for three months, with no sulight and no bathroom.`` ``they shoved a rod into a colonel who had been court martialled.`` etc. and these were sitting mnas and even ex-ministers!

i think pakistanis need to stop complaining about abu-gharaib now. the amount of torture in pakistani military and civilian jails is so high, it is unbelievable. God knows how many people musharraf has himself ordered to be tortured in some capacity..........

as for JI, i don`t know what they would do in power. one would have to wait and see. but they are about the only political party, which is not a one-man show and has an institutional system internally..............

Re: # 352 Romair:
Romair:
What sort of charges are the torture victims typically accused of? Are these people being tortured for political/religious beliefs or for violations of the military code?

Re: # 352
Umair, this was supposed to be a benign dictatorship!
I`d mention tho that i`m a bit skeptical since you have always been anti-military.
We should ask hamidmji as he has relatives high up in the military...

DM 343

“There is nothing wrong with the chowk guidelines (unless they have changed recently); it`s their implementation, or rather non-implementation that is the problem. FV had taken some steps in that direction but, with her departure, things are getting back to ``normal``.

Chowk’s interact guidelines are impotent words on display. Chowk has no interact policy in its “unflinching idealism” world, that includes gaali galoch, attacks on mothers, daughters, sisters, profane attacks on deep-seated religious beliefs, attacks on countries, culture, ethnicities, you name it. Nothing is sacred or respectful. One offensive post starts a vicious cycle and Chowk Staff has no clue how to control it (more likely, they don’t want to.) As a result, Chowk has been reduced to a hate-site.

Farzana did squat to control this problem. In fact, the “quality” of interacts noticeably deteriorated during her reign and this non-implementation of the so called Chowk’s interact guidelines has continued after her departure.

I don’t blame Zeemax for hurling turd at those Indian posters who have nothing to contribute other than spew hatred against Islam, Muslims, Pakistan, and Pakistanis. If you have noticed, first offense is almost always committed by Indians. Since this is free-for-all deal at Chowk, I hope Zeemax continues shoving it down those Indian posters throats.

zeemax#345:

Let`s not mix things. My reference to Punjabis was wrt gaali-galoch, not hatred. One could even argue that the Punjabi hatred is like ``karhi ka ubaal``, once the gaali galoch is over, there are no hard feelings. I am in fact amazed even at chowk unplugged how Punjabis get over their past gaali-galoch and become bosom friends. If I am not mistaken you seem to get along fine now with people with whom you previously engaged in gaali-galoch.

As far hatred, again I do not agree with you. First of all, chowk is not a random sample of communities. I was in South India recently and nobody seems to be concerned about Pakistan or even Kashmir. Nor is there any Hindu-Muslim friction there. Chowk attracts a certain kind of Indian - one who is interested in Pakistan either in a positive or a negative way. And the adversarial nature of chowk ensures that sooner or later, most of us succumb to this ``team`` mentality. I have frequently mentioned how many Pakistanis started out as friendly towards India and Hindus and turned hostile over time; I have observed the same thing about Indians also.

Re: # 348

We need more of this kinda people. As u said team mentality takes over. Damn right.

I am sure I would take Zee for Mac breakfast and do more leg-pulling. No hard feelings, at the end of the day. Abuses are from both sides.

We dont do this gaali-PLUS-affection to a true Afgan, Persian or an Arab. These guys are our people but fell away from us BUT still, I feel like related to them.....we are all related.......but are living in different countries......

No sentiments.......I can fights as well.

GT..

That`s from his CV......not my words. BTW, I dont think seriously about these words....beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.

I am good looking...I dont have this complex.....I am answering Zee about his comments... Thats all.

Thanks.

Re: # 349

Pl read as

I can fight as well.


i/o

I can fights as well.


(Bad proof reading!).

DM,

Now you`re talking about the ethnic divide. That`s a slippery path to pursue.

Let`s only talk about why these south-indians despise Pak/Islam more than the Indian Punjabis/Sikhs do? Is it because of geographical proximity, or inferiority complex due to physical appearance/poor culture etc or something else? After all, most of the bloodshed occured between Punjabis than anyone else (perhaps Bengal). So what is their problem?

Re: # 345

Zee,

Pl follow this link and see. You `d find people of all races & religions of Indian subcontinent who fought in Kargil. Dont mistake these heroes as Chinese, they are Indians. There are Aryans, Australoids, Mangoloids.....

http://indianarmy.nic.in/arotakheros.htm

What education teaches that Pakistanis are good looking and Indians (more so south Indians) are bad looking? Dont you need re-schooling for inculcation basic human values?

Bollywood had many South Indian actresses......Vaijayantimala, Waheeda Rehman, Hema malini, Jaya Prada, Sri Devi, Tabbu......

India had an advanced culture b4 anybody can think of covering their loins wlesewhere. Culture btw means Persian Muslim culture?


As for valour it was Maj. Saravanan who wrested Tiger Hill for India and he`s a south Indian!

This is his CV:

In the face of such heavy opposition Maj Saravanan displayed unparalleled courage, and with total disregard to his personal safety charged through the volley of bullets and fired a Rocket Launcher on the enemy bunker, killing two enemies on the spot. In the fierce fighting the officer sustained splinter injuries. Two more enemies who were hiding in the bunker opened fire from the top killing once NCO and injuring Maj Saravanan. Despite being injured and facing a heavy volley of fire, Maj Saravanan eliminated both of them but later succumbed to another burst on his head.

Re: # 346 by VRV


``..... and fired a Rocket Launcher on the enemy bunker ....``

How do you fire a rocket launcher? I thought you fire rockets from a rocket launcher. In any case, why do`nt you relax. South Indians or whoever will not become ugly because someone in chowk says so. Actually, come to think about it you are quite lucky being initiated through fire by chowk professionals. It depends on how you take it. Long time back the same thing happened to a young kid called ylh. Today he goes by the nick manto.