Zalan Alam August 27, 2006
#1 Posted by Ranjit on August 27, 2006 10:19:37 pm
This killing of Akbar Bugti provides an incredible opportunity to India. Baluchistan is in flames. India must immediately step up its activities there, pour money and arms into the area via Afghanistan and Iran and basically pour fuel on the fire. Now is the time to take revenge for the jihad in Kashmir and all the bomb blasts in India for the past 20 years.
At the same time, India should make a big publicity push in Kashmir by showcasing the brutal killing of a senior non-punjabi political leader in Pakistan. This is the exact future that awaits Kashmiris if they were ever to join Pakistan. At least India has not shoved a bomb up the a$$ of Syed Ali Shah Geelani or the other Hurriyat leaders. India should make a big hue and cry about it and show news clippings and images in TV programs aimed at Kashmiris.
In the end Balochistan can become a major leverage for India to turn Pakistan around on kashmir or other India related issues. Basically the equation should be - tell Pak to normalize relations with India, give up Kashmir and we will let Pak live in peace in Baluchistan. If only we had a strong leader like Indira Gandhi who could capitalize on this stuff. Unfortunately Manmohan Singh and other geriatric leaders have a hard time just staying awake and plodding through the day, let alone do any visionary thinking.
#2 Posted by harish_hyd on August 28, 2006 12:29:34 am
Pakistan could not stomach one Akbar Bugti, a man who wasn`t even asking for an independent homeland. India on the other hand, has suffered Geelani for decades now, even offering him police protection and a monthly allowance. That is the difference between a democracy, where divergent viewpoints need not always lead to targeted killings and a dictatorship where the response to an alternative viewpoint is what we saw in the killing of Bugti.
#3 Posted by muqaddam on August 28, 2006 1:19:40 am
The Pakistani govermment has been gloating over the recent killing of Bugti as though it is a big achievement. Instead, they might have created a martyr for the Baluch nation which will no doubt be further alienated by the loss of their leader. With such a vast expanse of land, rich natural resouces, its own history and distict culture, Baluchistan deserves to be an independent member of the comity of nations. By killing Bugti Pakistan government has just spurred the Bauch people to strive harder for independence from unjust Pakistani(Punjabi) domination.
#4 Posted by zeemax on August 28, 2006 1:30:03 am
Some gems of wisdom from the Oxbridge educated Nawab in an interview with Emma Duncan (Translated from Jang, Karachi Special Edition of 28 August.
**On tribal rivalries** Our traditions are centuries old. Our rivalries are handed down from generation to generation. Such as our dispute with the Marris has ben going on since 20 years and more than 120 people have been killed. Similarly, we had a dispute with the Jakhranis. At first we used to merely cut off each others` ears, then the bloodshed started and more than 250 people were killed on both sides. But we have now made peace after 30 years.
** On why do the tribals kill so much** They have nothing else to do.
**On how many persons he has personally killed** In my life, I have killed so many. I have lost count.
**About the tribal system**Tribal system is present everywhere even in Europe.
**On Nationalism**To me Nationalsim means independence. I am Baluch for thousands of years, Muslim for a few hundred years, and Pakistani for 53 years.
**On life & Death**I don`t believe in such nonsense. Upon death you are eaten by worms and that is all.
He did However believe in the supernatural characteristics of goats` shoulder bones (which he called our `newspapers`) and used to regularly consult tribal goat-bone readers to foretell the future.
**On tribal rivalries** Our traditions are centuries old. Our rivalries are handed down from generation to generation. Such as our dispute with the Marris has ben going on since 20 years and more than 120 people have been killed. Similarly, we had a dispute with the Jakhranis. At first we used to merely cut off each others` ears, then the bloodshed started and more than 250 people were killed on both sides. But we have now made peace after 30 years.
** On why do the tribals kill so much** They have nothing else to do.
**On how many persons he has personally killed** In my life, I have killed so many. I have lost count.
**About the tribal system**Tribal system is present everywhere even in Europe.
**On Nationalism**To me Nationalsim means independence. I am Baluch for thousands of years, Muslim for a few hundred years, and Pakistani for 53 years.
**On life & Death**I don`t believe in such nonsense. Upon death you are eaten by worms and that is all.
He did However believe in the supernatural characteristics of goats` shoulder bones (which he called our `newspapers`) and used to regularly consult tribal goat-bone readers to foretell the future.
#5 Posted by subhashjoshi on August 28, 2006 1:31:10 am
Indian leadership is correctly following a policy of non-interference in internal politics of Pakistan. WE can see what fruits Pakistan gained from its involvement in Kashmir. All we should focus on is to keep our house in order. We have tremendous tasks at hand, within our own borders. We can ill-afford to indulge in fishing in others` murky waters.
#6 Posted by zeemax on August 28, 2006 1:40:25 am
To the poster of #3 I would suggest a reading of the ethnic distribution of Baluchistan and what percentage are `Baluch` in that province.
#7 Posted by muqaddam on August 28, 2006 2:29:16 am
To the poster of #6, what`s important is that since the inception of Pakistan, the Punjabi dominated federal government(which in turn has been dominated by the Punjabi military)has systematically exploited (and oppressed in case of Baluchistan) the soobas. Do we have to remind ourselves of the pogroms of Tikka Khan, the Butcher of Baluchistan?
What is happening in Baluchistan today is what is going to happen in other soobas like Sindh tomorrow.
So it is important for the Punjabis and the Punjabi dominated military to let true federal democracy bloom or else face another disintegration of Pakistan.
The ethnic distribution will hardly be relevant if that were to happen.
What is happening in Baluchistan today is what is going to happen in other soobas like Sindh tomorrow.
So it is important for the Punjabis and the Punjabi dominated military to let true federal democracy bloom or else face another disintegration of Pakistan.
The ethnic distribution will hardly be relevant if that were to happen.
#8 Posted by veeresh on August 28, 2006 3:34:11 am
One dictator with bigger guns pops off another dictator with smaller guns.
Another dictator with even bigger guns will come and pop off the first dictator.
I think the report on Al Jazeera would be about the cleanest on this subject.
+++
I wonder what the usual India-bashers and Kashmir-wannabes have to say about the departure of Akbar Khan Bugti, and others, is it halal?
Another dictator with even bigger guns will come and pop off the first dictator.
I think the report on Al Jazeera would be about the cleanest on this subject.
+++
I wonder what the usual India-bashers and Kashmir-wannabes have to say about the departure of Akbar Khan Bugti, and others, is it halal?
#9 Posted by injun on August 28, 2006 3:49:22 am
By killing Akbar Bugti, Pakistan has proved that it is worse than Israel.
Now it is upto Balochs what they want to do?? Pakistan has never given them anything nor will it give them anything.
Independence is the only solution.
LONG LIVE INDEPENDENT BALOCHISTAN.
Now it is upto Balochs what they want to do?? Pakistan has never given them anything nor will it give them anything.
Independence is the only solution.
LONG LIVE INDEPENDENT BALOCHISTAN.
#10 Posted by IB on August 28, 2006 4:03:23 am
Although teh death of Akbar Bugti and Co. is welcomed by many Baloch tribes ( some openly and some through the back channels ) and by the other Pakistanis living inside and outside Pakistan but the way he got killed is something which was not right . He could have been killed by a assasin or someone from the other trible by killing him in a operation is a excuse by some of the people to potray him as `Shaheed` or Larger then Life Character -
anyhow , what happened , happened !
things will calm down in a month or two and everyone will forget and forgive .. .
btw.. Mengals now will try to be national leaders since it was Bughti who always was in limelight - news of celebration in Bughti Area and by Bughti`s Own Sons House in Karachi is comming in -
Pakistan Paa`indabad...
anyhow , what happened , happened !
things will calm down in a month or two and everyone will forget and forgive .. .
btw.. Mengals now will try to be national leaders since it was Bughti who always was in limelight - news of celebration in Bughti Area and by Bughti`s Own Sons House in Karachi is comming in -
Pakistan Paa`indabad...
#11 Posted by injun on August 28, 2006 4:24:12 am
#10 Somebody has rightly said that you Pakistanis can sell your own mothers.
What more proof is needed if what you say at #10 is right.
What more proof is needed if what you say at #10 is right.
#12 Posted by veeresh on August 28, 2006 4:48:29 am
Well, we just saw on CNN that one section of the Pakistani Government is saying that Bugti died ``accidentally`` due to a mine-blast, and another section is saying that he was killed.
As were a lot of other people killed in this military action.
As were a lot of other people killed in this military action.
#13 Posted by ijaz_gul on August 28, 2006 6:33:37 am
This is my i log.
Yesterday, one of the oldest surviving politicians of Pakistan died at the hands of violence: a path he himself had chosen and perpetuated on his people for a long time.
Looking for positives, he voted for Pakistan in 1947, remained a minister of defense and interior and stood by the establishment during the insurgency of Balochistan in the 70s. Despite being a Baloch Sardar and despot within the Bugti establishment, he always supported politics of democracy at the federal level. He was a paradox, but which politician in Pakistan is not? In fact, he was more transparent than any one of them.
Some of his biggest achievements were creation of Pakistan, acquisition of Gawadar from Oman and support for Pakistan against the secessionist and sub nationalist elements in Balochistan. His foibles were the accumulation of Bugti royalties in his own hands, elimination of the main Bugti tribe led by Hamdan Bugti and forcing them into exile. His mortal sin was to time and again challenge the establishment. His act of going down fighting in words of Nadeem Qasmi can be summed up as: -
“Doobtay Wagt mere haath merey parcham they”
He was a man abhorred by the establishment and was a misfit in their concept of patriotism; but so were Faiz Ahmad Faiz, Jalib, Mian Iftikhar and Bhutto.
He was well educated and self educated himself to the core. He could talk on any subject be it history, archeology, economics or nuclear. He was also a close friend of the US diplomats in Pakistan and was visited by them regularly. He was a very good cricket player who even when his late 70s could play a late cut and a hook short with ease. True to his name, he never wore a helmet. He was the Patron of the local cricket club and could have proved to be one of the most effective chiefs of the Pakistan Cricket Board.
I saw him at close hand while exploring the caves in Bugti Agency for Cro Mognon man paintings and old pottery. I saw his Jirga, dispensation of justice and uncompromising stature.
He had lots of respect for minorities and Hindus in his area were the most secure.
His violent death leaves a gapping hole in the federation of Pakistan. These are testing times and I am at a loss to suggest how the effects of such big tragedy would be undone. I can only pray that the damage is not irreparable.
Last year a series of articles appeared in SAT regarding the marshalling of miscreants in Balochistan with active support fron KHAD and RAW. There was talk of Ferrari Camps being re established and the role being played by EX KGB Officers. At first, it appeared like a Fredrick Foresyth thriller like Dogs of War, but soon it began to manifest.
Many western security experts still think Balochistan to be the soft underbelly of Pakistan and the corridor if controlled provides the shortest and direct access to CARS.
Perhaps Bugti also became a pawn on this chequerboard.
The establishment has sent a loud and clear retort.
Cheerios
Yesterday, one of the oldest surviving politicians of Pakistan died at the hands of violence: a path he himself had chosen and perpetuated on his people for a long time.
Looking for positives, he voted for Pakistan in 1947, remained a minister of defense and interior and stood by the establishment during the insurgency of Balochistan in the 70s. Despite being a Baloch Sardar and despot within the Bugti establishment, he always supported politics of democracy at the federal level. He was a paradox, but which politician in Pakistan is not? In fact, he was more transparent than any one of them.
Some of his biggest achievements were creation of Pakistan, acquisition of Gawadar from Oman and support for Pakistan against the secessionist and sub nationalist elements in Balochistan. His foibles were the accumulation of Bugti royalties in his own hands, elimination of the main Bugti tribe led by Hamdan Bugti and forcing them into exile. His mortal sin was to time and again challenge the establishment. His act of going down fighting in words of Nadeem Qasmi can be summed up as: -
“Doobtay Wagt mere haath merey parcham they”
He was a man abhorred by the establishment and was a misfit in their concept of patriotism; but so were Faiz Ahmad Faiz, Jalib, Mian Iftikhar and Bhutto.
He was well educated and self educated himself to the core. He could talk on any subject be it history, archeology, economics or nuclear. He was also a close friend of the US diplomats in Pakistan and was visited by them regularly. He was a very good cricket player who even when his late 70s could play a late cut and a hook short with ease. True to his name, he never wore a helmet. He was the Patron of the local cricket club and could have proved to be one of the most effective chiefs of the Pakistan Cricket Board.
I saw him at close hand while exploring the caves in Bugti Agency for Cro Mognon man paintings and old pottery. I saw his Jirga, dispensation of justice and uncompromising stature.
He had lots of respect for minorities and Hindus in his area were the most secure.
His violent death leaves a gapping hole in the federation of Pakistan. These are testing times and I am at a loss to suggest how the effects of such big tragedy would be undone. I can only pray that the damage is not irreparable.
Last year a series of articles appeared in SAT regarding the marshalling of miscreants in Balochistan with active support fron KHAD and RAW. There was talk of Ferrari Camps being re established and the role being played by EX KGB Officers. At first, it appeared like a Fredrick Foresyth thriller like Dogs of War, but soon it began to manifest.
Many western security experts still think Balochistan to be the soft underbelly of Pakistan and the corridor if controlled provides the shortest and direct access to CARS.
Perhaps Bugti also became a pawn on this chequerboard.
The establishment has sent a loud and clear retort.
Cheerios
#14 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on August 28, 2006 6:40:13 am
Alam Sahib,
Thank you for your brief yet targeted discussion of yet another sad and violent chapter in the Paki Army`s domination over its own people. Regardless of his own shortcomings, Akbar Bugti did not deserve to die at the hands of his own country`s military. The faujuis should not gloat over yet another ``victory,`` as they systemically squeeze the last drops of nationalism out of the citizens of this unfortunate land. Killing a 79 year old established leader will bring nothing but more problems for these ill-conceived ``ghazis.`` I hope they each get 72 asexual yet extremely horny she-devils in hell as their just reward.
Thank you for your brief yet targeted discussion of yet another sad and violent chapter in the Paki Army`s domination over its own people. Regardless of his own shortcomings, Akbar Bugti did not deserve to die at the hands of his own country`s military. The faujuis should not gloat over yet another ``victory,`` as they systemically squeeze the last drops of nationalism out of the citizens of this unfortunate land. Killing a 79 year old established leader will bring nothing but more problems for these ill-conceived ``ghazis.`` I hope they each get 72 asexual yet extremely horny she-devils in hell as their just reward.
#15 Posted by zeemax on August 28, 2006 6:52:14 am
#13
... I am at a loss to suggest how the effects of such big tragedy would be undone. I can only pray that the damage is not irreparable.
This is the typical shallow thought process of dillitente` pseudo-analysts.
If the elimination of ZAB could be undone, what makes anyone believe a murdering clan chief all of whose sons were murdered themselves after having murdered in tribal rivalries except one who is a convicted/absconding wife-murderer amongst others, was indispensible?
But thanks for your amazing insight. Please spare us further.
... I am at a loss to suggest how the effects of such big tragedy would be undone. I can only pray that the damage is not irreparable.
This is the typical shallow thought process of dillitente` pseudo-analysts.
If the elimination of ZAB could be undone, what makes anyone believe a murdering clan chief all of whose sons were murdered themselves after having murdered in tribal rivalries except one who is a convicted/absconding wife-murderer amongst others, was indispensible?
But thanks for your amazing insight. Please spare us further.
#16 Posted by nazarhayatkhan on August 28, 2006 6:56:44 am
It should not have happened.
But Akbar Bugti had lived a full life. At this ripe age, he should have become an elder statesmen & lead a peaceful struggle. After all, other provinces have no autonomy either.
The Baluchi Sardars, if anything, have the full writ over their areas - lashkars, jails etc. His sons were a law into themselves - firing on main streets of Karachi and driving recklessly - nobody to question.
Taking up arms against this army, fully equiped with satellite tracking and precision guidance weapons, thanks to war-on-terror and Al Quaida, was a miscalculation.
The politicians, from the inside, do not mind letting Musharaf do all the dirty work for them in his Bravado & Stupidity - undoing Zia`s blunders; such as going after the Talibans, confining Islam back into mosque etc. They do not mind Baluchistan becoming more governable.
May his soul rest in peace. He was a handsome man & brave as well.
nhk
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