The Death of a Nawab

This killing of Akbar Bugti provides an incredible opportunity to India. Baluchistan is in flames. India must immediately step up its activities there, pour money and arms into the area via Afghanistan and Iran and basically pour fuel on the fire. Now is the time to take revenge for the jihad in Kashmir and all the bomb blasts in India for the past 20 years.

At the same time, India should make a big publicity push in Kashmir by showcasing the brutal killing of a senior non-punjabi political leader in Pakistan. This is the exact future that awaits Kashmiris if they were ever to join Pakistan. At least India has not shoved a bomb up the a$$ of Syed Ali Shah Geelani or the other Hurriyat leaders. India should make a big hue and cry about it and show news clippings and images in TV programs aimed at Kashmiris.

In the end Balochistan can become a major leverage for India to turn Pakistan around on kashmir or other India related issues. Basically the equation should be - tell Pak to normalize relations with India, give up Kashmir and we will let Pak live in peace in Baluchistan. If only we had a strong leader like Indira Gandhi who could capitalize on this stuff. Unfortunately Manmohan Singh and other geriatric leaders have a hard time just staying awake and plodding through the day, let alone do any visionary thinking.

Pakistan could not stomach one Akbar Bugti, a man who wasn`t even asking for an independent homeland. India on the other hand, has suffered Geelani for decades now, even offering him police protection and a monthly allowance. That is the difference between a democracy, where divergent viewpoints need not always lead to targeted killings and a dictatorship where the response to an alternative viewpoint is what we saw in the killing of Bugti.

The Pakistani govermment has been gloating over the recent killing of Bugti as though it is a big achievement. Instead, they might have created a martyr for the Baluch nation which will no doubt be further alienated by the loss of their leader. With such a vast expanse of land, rich natural resouces, its own history and distict culture, Baluchistan deserves to be an independent member of the comity of nations. By killing Bugti Pakistan government has just spurred the Bauch people to strive harder for independence from unjust Pakistani(Punjabi) domination.

Some gems of wisdom from the Oxbridge educated Nawab in an interview with Emma Duncan (Translated from Jang, Karachi Special Edition of 28 August.

**On tribal rivalries** Our traditions are centuries old. Our rivalries are handed down from generation to generation. Such as our dispute with the Marris has ben going on since 20 years and more than 120 people have been killed. Similarly, we had a dispute with the Jakhranis. At first we used to merely cut off each others` ears, then the bloodshed started and more than 250 people were killed on both sides. But we have now made peace after 30 years.

** On why do the tribals kill so much** They have nothing else to do.

**On how many persons he has personally killed** In my life, I have killed so many. I have lost count.

**About the tribal system**Tribal system is present everywhere even in Europe.

**On Nationalism**To me Nationalsim means independence. I am Baluch for thousands of years, Muslim for a few hundred years, and Pakistani for 53 years.

**On life & Death**I don`t believe in such nonsense. Upon death you are eaten by worms and that is all.

He did However believe in the supernatural characteristics of goats` shoulder bones (which he called our `newspapers`) and used to regularly consult tribal goat-bone readers to foretell the future.

Indian leadership is correctly following a policy of non-interference in internal politics of Pakistan. WE can see what fruits Pakistan gained from its involvement in Kashmir. All we should focus on is to keep our house in order. We have tremendous tasks at hand, within our own borders. We can ill-afford to indulge in fishing in others` murky waters.

To the poster of #3 I would suggest a reading of the ethnic distribution of Baluchistan and what percentage are `Baluch` in that province.

To the poster of #6, what`s important is that since the inception of Pakistan, the Punjabi dominated federal government(which in turn has been dominated by the Punjabi military)has systematically exploited (and oppressed in case of Baluchistan) the soobas. Do we have to remind ourselves of the pogroms of Tikka Khan, the Butcher of Baluchistan?

What is happening in Baluchistan today is what is going to happen in other soobas like Sindh tomorrow.

So it is important for the Punjabis and the Punjabi dominated military to let true federal democracy bloom or else face another disintegration of Pakistan.

The ethnic distribution will hardly be relevant if that were to happen.

One dictator with bigger guns pops off another dictator with smaller guns.

Another dictator with even bigger guns will come and pop off the first dictator.

I think the report on Al Jazeera would be about the cleanest on this subject.

+++

I wonder what the usual India-bashers and Kashmir-wannabes have to say about the departure of Akbar Khan Bugti, and others, is it halal?

By killing Akbar Bugti, Pakistan has proved that it is worse than Israel.

Now it is upto Balochs what they want to do?? Pakistan has never given them anything nor will it give them anything.

Independence is the only solution.

LONG LIVE INDEPENDENT BALOCHISTAN.

Although teh death of Akbar Bugti and Co. is welcomed by many Baloch tribes ( some openly and some through the back channels ) and by the other Pakistanis living inside and outside Pakistan but the way he got killed is something which was not right . He could have been killed by a assasin or someone from the other trible by killing him in a operation is a excuse by some of the people to potray him as `Shaheed` or Larger then Life Character -
anyhow , what happened , happened !
things will calm down in a month or two and everyone will forget and forgive .. .
btw.. Mengals now will try to be national leaders since it was Bughti who always was in limelight - news of celebration in Bughti Area and by Bughti`s Own Sons House in Karachi is comming in -
Pakistan Paa`indabad...

#10 Somebody has rightly said that you Pakistanis can sell your own mothers.

What more proof is needed if what you say at #10 is right.

Well, we just saw on CNN that one section of the Pakistani Government is saying that Bugti died ``accidentally`` due to a mine-blast, and another section is saying that he was killed.

As were a lot of other people killed in this military action.

This is my i log.
Yesterday, one of the oldest surviving politicians of Pakistan died at the hands of violence: a path he himself had chosen and perpetuated on his people for a long time.

Looking for positives, he voted for Pakistan in 1947, remained a minister of defense and interior and stood by the establishment during the insurgency of Balochistan in the 70s. Despite being a Baloch Sardar and despot within the Bugti establishment, he always supported politics of democracy at the federal level. He was a paradox, but which politician in Pakistan is not? In fact, he was more transparent than any one of them.

Some of his biggest achievements were creation of Pakistan, acquisition of Gawadar from Oman and support for Pakistan against the secessionist and sub nationalist elements in Balochistan. His foibles were the accumulation of Bugti royalties in his own hands, elimination of the main Bugti tribe led by Hamdan Bugti and forcing them into exile. His mortal sin was to time and again challenge the establishment. His act of going down fighting in words of Nadeem Qasmi can be summed up as: -

“Doobtay Wagt mere haath merey parcham they”

He was a man abhorred by the establishment and was a misfit in their concept of patriotism; but so were Faiz Ahmad Faiz, Jalib, Mian Iftikhar and Bhutto.

He was well educated and self educated himself to the core. He could talk on any subject be it history, archeology, economics or nuclear. He was also a close friend of the US diplomats in Pakistan and was visited by them regularly. He was a very good cricket player who even when his late 70s could play a late cut and a hook short with ease. True to his name, he never wore a helmet. He was the Patron of the local cricket club and could have proved to be one of the most effective chiefs of the Pakistan Cricket Board.

I saw him at close hand while exploring the caves in Bugti Agency for Cro Mognon man paintings and old pottery. I saw his Jirga, dispensation of justice and uncompromising stature.

He had lots of respect for minorities and Hindus in his area were the most secure.

His violent death leaves a gapping hole in the federation of Pakistan. These are testing times and I am at a loss to suggest how the effects of such big tragedy would be undone. I can only pray that the damage is not irreparable.

Last year a series of articles appeared in SAT regarding the marshalling of miscreants in Balochistan with active support fron KHAD and RAW. There was talk of Ferrari Camps being re established and the role being played by EX KGB Officers. At first, it appeared like a Fredrick Foresyth thriller like Dogs of War, but soon it began to manifest.
Many western security experts still think Balochistan to be the soft underbelly of Pakistan and the corridor if controlled provides the shortest and direct access to CARS.

Perhaps Bugti also became a pawn on this chequerboard.

The establishment has sent a loud and clear retort.

Cheerios

Alam Sahib,
Thank you for your brief yet targeted discussion of yet another sad and violent chapter in the Paki Army`s domination over its own people. Regardless of his own shortcomings, Akbar Bugti did not deserve to die at the hands of his own country`s military. The faujuis should not gloat over yet another ``victory,`` as they systemically squeeze the last drops of nationalism out of the citizens of this unfortunate land. Killing a 79 year old established leader will bring nothing but more problems for these ill-conceived ``ghazis.`` I hope they each get 72 asexual yet extremely horny she-devils in hell as their just reward.

#13

... I am at a loss to suggest how the effects of such big tragedy would be undone. I can only pray that the damage is not irreparable.

This is the typical shallow thought process of dillitente` pseudo-analysts.

If the elimination of ZAB could be undone, what makes anyone believe a murdering clan chief all of whose sons were murdered themselves after having murdered in tribal rivalries except one who is a convicted/absconding wife-murderer amongst others, was indispensible?

But thanks for your amazing insight. Please spare us further.

It should not have happened.

But Akbar Bugti had lived a full life. At this ripe age, he should have become an elder statesmen & lead a peaceful struggle. After all, other provinces have no autonomy either.

The Baluchi Sardars, if anything, have the full writ over their areas - lashkars, jails etc. His sons were a law into themselves - firing on main streets of Karachi and driving recklessly - nobody to question.

Taking up arms against this army, fully equiped with satellite tracking and precision guidance weapons, thanks to war-on-terror and Al Quaida, was a miscalculation.

The politicians, from the inside, do not mind letting Musharaf do all the dirty work for them in his Bravado & Stupidity - undoing Zia`s blunders; such as going after the Talibans, confining Islam back into mosque etc. They do not mind Baluchistan becoming more governable.

May his soul rest in peace. He was a handsome man & brave as well.

nhk

Perhaps the poster of #7 will discover sometime that there are at-least as many if not more ethnic `Baluch` in Southern Punjab and Sindh than in entire Baluchistan. Many of whom are from the ``the Punjabi dominated federal government`` and one of whom was the President of Pakistan (now a son and a niece federal ministers, plus another niece an MNA married to a genuine Baluch Sardar, also an MNA). I believe the poster would have guessed by now who I`m talking about. But more hints can be available upon request.

While Manto romances Ms Gupta, Pakistan burns ...

Yes, where is our promised Messiah? As the sole Paki Punjabi ``Pisser-e-Zameen,`` who has any credibility left among the persecuted minorities of Pakistan, Manto Bhai needs to accelerate his plans to save Pakistan.

Persecuted Punjabis of the Ahmedi persuasion, Massacred Mohajirs of Karachi and Hyderabad, Pulverized Pathans of FATA and NWFP, bombed Baluchis of Baluchistan, aggrieved Azad Kashmiris, besieged Baltis, horrified Hindus, shackled Shias, insecure Ismailis, and various other minorities have lost all hope in those who are sworn to protect the country.

We have met the enemy and he wears a uniform, salutes the star & crescent, murmurs the Kalima, and then commits rape, looting, torture, and murder against those he should be protecting.

While Manto romances Ms Gupta, Pakistan burns ...



Started by Salim_Chauhan on August 28, 2006 7:50am PT

Yes, where is our promised Messiah? As the sole Paki Punjabi ``Pisser-e-Zameen,`` who has any credibility left among the persecuted minorities of Pakistan, Manto Bhai needs to accelerate his plans to save Pakistan.

Persecuted Punjabis of the Ahmedi persuasion, Massacred Mohajirs of Karachi and Hyderabad, Pulverized Pathans of FATA and NWFP, bombed Baluchis of Baluchistan, aggrieved Azad Kashmiris, besieged Baltis, horrified Hindus, shackled Shias, insecure Ismailis, and various other minorities have lost all hope in those who are sworn to protect the country.

We have met the enemy and he wears a uniform, salutes the star & crescent, murmurs the Kalima, and then commits rape, looting, torture, and murder against those he should be protecting.

Yes, YAHAN KE CHOR HEN CHOWKIDAR. Manto Bhai, Jaldi Aao aur desh bachao

...crocodile tears from some indians,gloatings from others...confused signals from a flip-flop who wants pakistan dismantled for the final solution and someone talking about bugti`s compassion for minorities...all this makes for a fascinating read into one of the most complex political characters of pakistan, who spoke of democracy yet disallowed discent, who talked of progress for baloch people but disallowed schools in his area,in reality he was simply a tribal chieftain who was seen as a heroic figure by the romantics but was a treacherous tyrant who sold out the baloch people to the centre in the 70s...as for as pak army is concerned...their days are numbered too...

hum dekheNge
laazim hai ki hum bhi hum dekheNge

So the Fauji Sardars killed a Baloch Sardar..i get that, but why are they saying its a victory for Paksitan?

Re:subhashjoshi#5

[...Indian leadership is correctly following a policy of non-interference in internal politics of Pakistan....]

Typical hindu meekness at display!! The other side is shipping RDX by the tonnes to blow up our trains, temples, market places and kill innocent people. They are supplying jihadis continuously. Instead of ever taking the fight to them and exploiting their weakness, we should just sit back and live a life of fear and terror. As long as it doesnt affect anyone you know personally, it is ok, right? No wonder we hindus got conquered by every idiot who showed up at our doorstep.

Ref ranjit #1

[....If only we had a strong leader like Indira Gandhi who could capitalize on this stuff.]

Wasn`t Indira Gandhi the strong leader who capitalized on her victory in Bangladesh and liberated Pak-Occupied Kashmir? Didn`t she order the Indian Army to drive into West Pakistan and capture Karachi and strangle Pakistan?

Can you think up more lies to sing the praises of that World Class B!tch?

If she were alive, you would by now be castrated.

Ranjit #1 {``If only we had a strong leader like Indira Gandhi who could capitalize on this stuff. ``}
Harimau #22 {``Wasn`t Indira Gandhi the strong leader who capitalized on her victory in Bangladesh and liberated Pak-Occupied Kashmir? Didn`t she order the Indian Army to drive into West Pakistan and capture Karachi and strangle Pakistan? ``}

Ranjit Bhai and Harry Brother,
I went to the source of all truth - yes, the holy Sword of Truth website some time ago. There I found out that you are indeed right. According to these merchants of veracity, Indira was one true opportunist. While her father was busy banging Edwina, she was taking copious notes for the future. In England, she fell in love with a Muslim Khan sahib, who was forced to adopt the name of Gandhi at the insistence of the world-famous Gujju saint. They were married and blessed with a son, Rajiv. Later on she had a second son through the efforts of yet another Muslim friend. With this kind of capitalization, most Paki males would have welcomed her strangulating advances into AK, Baluchistan, and even Karachi.

Here are some of Mr Bugti`s achievements during the 1990s...

Left Baloch National Alliance and formed his own party (Jamhoori Watan Party) in 1993.

Murdered his political opponent from Kalpar Bugti clan for daring to contest the election against JWP`s candidate in 1993.

Kalpars shot Akbar Bugti`s son in retaliation. Akbar Bugti expelled thousands of Kalpars from Dera Bugti to Punjab to avenge his son`s death.

This is a man who respected no laws, and submitted before no judge. Akbar Bugti`s death only proves that ``those who live by the sword, also die by the sword``

Re:harimau#22

[...Wasn`t Indira Gandhi the strong leader who capitalized on her victory in Bangladesh and liberated Pak-Occupied Kashmir? Didn`t she order the Indian Army to drive into West Pakistan and capture Karachi and strangle Pakistan?.....]

Indira Gandhi had more balls than all the male leaders we have ever had put together. At least she had the guts to split Pakistan into two and permanently reduce Pakistan to a non-entity as compared to India. Before that Pakistan was the largest muslim country on earth, a fairly good economy and had grandiose designs of hoisting their flag in New Delhi. After 1971, they know they can never compete with us. Effectively it sealed hindu rule over the subcontinent forever.

As far as attacking PoK and Karachi etc is concerned, why should Indira do it? Does it make sense to occupy Pakistani territory and have millions of potential jihadis as reluctant citizens who will ruin your demographics and give you terrorism? That is like shooting yourself in the foot a la Bush or Ehud Olmert. She did exactly the right thing - break up Pakistan into smaller entities and make it a weak, impotent country, so as to remove competition for India. Until 1971, muslims always wanted to be equal to hindus in spite of smaller demographics, which is why they created Pakistan in the first place. After 1971, they have been put in place. Now they are killing their own leaders in caves or living quietly in India.

Pakistani state cannot be further split up cos the Paki army has nukes now. These nukes will ensure a permanent curse (army) over pakistani people.

Hypothetically, if India has independent free states on its western border that are based along ethnic lines, the curse of mullahism and its flip side, army - will die forever but that`s not gonna happen.

He lived with his moustache-up and died with that intact - thereby his honour intact.

He became an icon for Balochis of late. He could not have liberated the whole of Balochistan with a few dozen henchman.

Balochis are angling for a bigger place under the sun. Sistan Va Baluchistan is till under Iran. Bugti is a fascinating case. Born as as Indian lived as Pakistani but died as Baluchistani (he did not consider himslef as a Pakstani).

Bugti was a product of Pak establishment`s policies. Had the political settlement happened he`d not gone to Bhamboor hills and died there. His murder has rekindled the spirit of nationalism in Balochis (video visuals). Pak establishment is flip-flopping about his death i.e. killed once later changed version as killed by some accident etc., They are scared of backlash, perhaps.

As long as Busharraf licks the boots of the US, Balochis cant get their freedom. At least the provinicla autonomy as being demanded by MQM would satisfy them at least, for the timebeing.

Condolesnces can be sent to many sites

www.bso-na.org
www.balochwarna.org
www.baloch2000.org
www.ostomaan.org
or email: balochbnp@gmail.com

Treat Balochis as human beings (many Balochis are incarcerating in Pak jials without trails), not as slaves. Many here have sympathy for Lebanese than Balochis.

Re: # 26

Raw Dust,

Even USSR had several thousand nukes but they caved-in. Theoretically a nuke state can collapse.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

VRV sir:
Kakul Academy is not supposed to produce gorbachevs but we can keep our fingers crossed.

Re: # 30

Brother,

Ha Ha...

i dont think there is a group of people on earth who are bigger racists than the self described secular liberals of pakistan. mazay kee bath hai kay this hatred is directed towards fellow kallus.

in a column written few years back, editor of daily times argued that pakistani cricket selectors should choose players who can speak english. honest:

www.dailytimes.com.pk

``...It would do us much good if the PCB could also get some players who can speak English beyond ‘yeah’. It makes a difference because English is not just a language, it is an attitude....``

now ahmed rashid, another ``liberal`` journalist and a neocon wannabe is arguing that govt should hand power to people who were responsible for killing around 3,000-5,000 karachites in the mid-90`s - a claim the perpetrators wear as a badge of honour :

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/08/28/opinion/edrashid.php

``...The unraveling of the Musharraf era is picking up pace. The army now needs to let go and help Pakistan`s politicians map out a path toward an acceptable democracy for a nation that is critical to the world`s stability...``

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA330011996?open&of=ENG-381

``...The organization has received reports of hundreds of cases of unlawful detention, torture, deaths in custody, extrajudicial executions and ``disappearances``, mainly in Karachi, but also in other cities of the province...``

http://www.dawn.com/2006/03/09/nat3.htm

``...Ms Bhutto said the PPP was committed to establishing the writ of government in the tribal areas as it had established the writ of government in Karachi after the discovery of plans to make Jinnahpur by breaking up Pakistan...``

its good that pak liberals are complete cowards. the best they can do is beg their gora masters for help which is fortunately not a crime. even bullets would be wasted on these losers.

Nawab Akbar Bugti was the most powerful Baluch sardar of the 20th century. He was more than a man. He was an era.

True, there have been ferocious sardars before him. But their power was limited by their modest wealth. They didn`t have natural gas revenue at their disposal.

Yet this enormous wealth was used for personal aggrandizement by the Nawab. Punjabis and Pak Army were only insulted by this man... but his greatest victims were his own people: the Bugtis.

His death marks the beginning of a new Pakistan: a post-feudal Pakistan in which power is exercised solely by state institutions and there are no political impediments to national integration.

actually bugti did kill punjabis. few months back he targetted a bus filled with punjabi labourers that was going from baluchistan to punjab. around 30-40 innocent punjabi labourers died in that attack. therefore to describe bugti`s career as controversial is like describing bin laden`s career as controversial.

http://www.dawn.com/2005/02/19/op.htm#4

...To a sardar such a man is an anathema. He was mercilessly gunned down in the cantonment area of Quetta on his way to the high court - the first murder of a high court judge in the history of Pakistan and it happened during General Musharraf`s time.

The sardars, their fathers and their children, despite having never worked, have ample money; live princely lives, in a flurry of land cruisers and a retinue of armed guards, while their people are in utter poverty. Today there is no writ of the government in Balochistan.

Akbar Bugti was a cruel man, true but the man had a spine atleast , he said he will die before kneeling infront of Busharraf & kept his word. What do we have in our present & past rulers The Pak Army spineless bastards only good at killing hteir own people. It makes me happy as a Pakistani to see indian footage of a sikh indian army jawan slapping a Pakistani soldier ( they surrendered remember!) .
An illiterate friend of mine was convinced that all the people going in to the pakistan army & police are bastards, you could not convince the guy otherwise.
I guess he was more enlightened then me, how can people from a normal family behave the way pakistan army behaves.
I hope & pray to GOd that India Invades Pakistan & slaps these Generals around . As for the Nukes I ma not worried much by tthe timethe U.S gets done with us there wont be any more of those lying around ( one can atleast hope ).
WHen are the people of punjab going to wake up. You say you are cursed for everything , I think you shopuld be , bercause more than half the poulation of pakistan ias punjab but is the most docile province in terms of politics. Wake up or you will need Visas to com to Quetta & Karachi.

hey dybbut, how about you take a lesson out bugti`s book? why dont you stand outside a mid-size karachi masjid after jumma and say out loud what you write in post # 34?

if you live outside pak, i will pay for your ticket as long as you let me videotape the scene.

this picture of karachi bazar should give you a hint on the fun and games in store for you:

Repy # 36.
May be GEO is not showinhg it & ARY has kept quite but near the biggest mosque in Karachi the much maligned & rightly sso Newtown Mosque , numerous flags of pakistan were burnt.
One more thing, the word for Ass ( as in the backside not the animal) in baloch is `pok`. Guess what they call pakistan in Balochi, yes u guessed it Pokistan. When will this intolerant pseudoIslamic hub of terror known as pakistan end its pathetic little life , I wait but I guess it wont be long.
As for the flags you see in the picture I have lived in karachi was born there please dont kid your self.
As the Slogan goes PAKISTAN...................say ZINDA BHAAG
If you are still in karachi I guess they refused your Visa.

Zeemax,
You call my comment Psuedo Intellectualism. I would rate your comments as those coming fom an armchair analyst.

Have you ever visited far flung areas of Pakistan where the only meal of the day is some barley batter wrapped around hot stones?

Have you ever visited Panjgur to realise that Pakistan appears an alien land there?

Do you know that all Pathans in Panjgur, Turbat, Nal and Mand migrated to Pushto spreaking areas after massive killing of Pathans, considered Pakistanis in 1989-91 by the local Baloch?

Are you aware that already lots of non Balochi speaking people are migrating towards other provinces.

Divides in Balochistan run very deep. Such are the centrifugal, sub nationalist and divisive forces in Balochistan.

For a long time Bughti was the only Sardar who supported the Federation.

As an aside, the caves in which the Nawab died are historic and made by Cro Mognon Man, ie the anscestors of modern man.

Cheerios

In the final analysis, military action in Baluchistan is short-sighted.

Provincial autonomy & political settlement was the right course.

These Sardars were & are 100% secular and they kept the fundos out of Baluchistan.

Removing their clout will create a vacume that the Jihadis will love to fill using the slogan of autonomy.

And that would create a much more intractable and dangerous situation.

And Mushharaf would have lived up to that old experience that every military ruler left behind a gross bluder through his ignorance. (though may be with good intentions?)

Ayub - 65 war - uncalled for - that derailed the country for all times.

Yahya - Reduced the country to half.

Zia - Radicalized the country through Islamization.

Musharraf - Kargil & introducing political islam/terrorism in Baluchistan ? Leading to ...?

nhk

Nazar,
Howdy?
I agree cent per cent.
Cheerios

Nazar/Ijaz - appreciate your ground level inputs. From here in India, barring the few of us with linkages to Baluchistan, the rest are not impacted. And frankly, many of us hope and wish that Pakistan gets its house in order whichever way is best for it, so that we have lesser problems in India of the attributed to Pakistan sort.

Right or wrong, that`s how it is.

+++

What is the ground reality in Karachi, though, since we see a lot of smoke and fire and stuff on television, but it could be any city in Pakistan. Indicators would be - are people sending their children to school? Is the port functioning smoothly? Are the buses/taxies operating at normal fares?

And most of all, how is the middle class taking it?

+++

Would the Pakistani Army have decimated Nawab Bugti without American approvals is another obvious question. Or was this, also, a covert operation by the now Independent State of ISI?

#38 by Psuedo-Intellectual,

Have you ever visited far flung areas of Pakistan where the only meal of the day is some barley batter wrapped around hot stones?

Yes I have. I have also been to areas where the only drinking water available is black in colour and carries larvae which turn into worms inside the body which force their way out through bone joints. Still these people drink it, because they also have a herbal cure for it. And, this area is not in Baluchistan, but in NWFP. But you would know nothing about it.

Have you ever visited Panjgur to realise that Pakistan appears an alien land there?

Yes I have but that`s irrelevant here. The entire coastal belt of Baluchistan is NOT ethnic `Baluch` area. It is `Brahui` area. But you wouldn`t know about that either.

For further addition to your understanding, I reproduce below a post I had written in April:

.... what`s up in baloch land anyway?

Let me answer this question once and for all because you strawmen are clutching to this all over chowkistan in your paki-bashing ... now kindly de-wax your ears with whatever garbage you have stuffed up there, notwithstanding any other orifices, and listen !!!

1) Baluchistan`s total population is around 8 million (in a country of 150 m). That too Half Baluchi/Half Pashtun. Some Punjabi settlers as well.

2) The term `Baluch` when applied to entire non-Pashtun Baluchistan is a misnomer because these are further sub-divided into the indigenous Brahui speaking tribes and the `Baluch` who migrated from the Caspian region, i.e. Iran.

3) The Baluch were initially successful in overcoming the Brahuis under Mir Chakar, who established his capital at Sibi in 1487, and a Baluch kingdom briefly came into existence, before being destroyed by civil war between Mir Chakar`s Rind tribe and the rival Lasharis. The name however stuck.

4) The area now called Baluchistan was not in British India but was independant throughout the 18th century. The indigenous Brahui speaking Khans of Kalat were the dominant local power, and had actually `leased`` the Quetta region to the British, but remained in control of the rest of the territories. The independence of Kalat only ended in 1948 when the Khan merged with Pakistan, and the abolition of the state`s boundaries in 1955. The present shape of Baluchistan was finally rounded out in 1958 when the Sultan of Oman sold Gwadar, given to one of his ancestors by the Khan of Kalat, back to Pakistan. The point is, Brahuis have always been the dominant ethnicity of Baluchistan, not the so-termed Baluch.

5) While the Brahuis remained in control over the coastal areas and those bordering Punjab and Sindh, the Baluch remained closer to the western areas bordering Iran.

6) Under the terms of the merger, a `Sardari` (Feudal) system had been agreed to be retained in the region by Pakistan, which continues to this day. This system is something like the Waziristan tribal system with the very vital difference that law & order forces remained in control of Tribal Sardars, who were allowed to maintain personal armies for the purpose, paid for by Pakistan, while a Jirga system was retained in the NWFP tribal areas which is more democratic. This system meant tremendous power for the Feudals of Baluchistan. As a result, only maybe 5% of Baluchistan`s law & order is now under even provincial authority, let alone federal. Baluchistan is `feudal` of `feudals`.

7) Gas was first discovered in The Sui area of the Bugti (Baluch) tribe in 1955, and later in the Marri (Baluch) and Jamali (Brahui) areas. The reserves were huge. Under the constitution, royalty has to be paid which was agreed at 2% and continues to be paid. The Sardari system meant all federal development funds going to the Sardars which were never used for development, because of the classic reason that this would mean end of the Sardars, but misappropriated by them resulting in the continued under-development of Baluchistan compared to rest of the country.

8) So what`s the issue now? Out of the hundreds of Sardars in Baluchistan, two out of three tribes of the gas producing regions i.e. Bugti and Marri are up against the federal government, just as they had done in ZAB`s time as well as Nawaz, using the same forces paid for by the federal government, actually meant for law & order. Their demand? The royalty paid of 2% is not enough. That is it. Blackmail and holding rest of Baluchistan and indeed Pakistan to ransom. Nothing more.

Now, that would seem like an easy thing to agree to. Increase the royalty and get it over with. But as would be clear from above, these two tribes are hardly representative of Baluchistan. You give them more money now, they will do the same thing and not spend it on their people but just wait till they can demand even more. It is just two Sardars. Akbar Bugti, and Khair Bux Marri. Why doesn`t the Government just take them out? Because the key gas installtions are highly vulnerable to sabotage. How do you protect hunreds of mile of pipeline through open plains? Therefore negotiations accompanied with force has been applied through frontier corps (and not fighter jets nor the military mind you).

The only solution is end of the sardari system in Baluchistan, and direct provincial rule. Exile of these two sardars, and clean up the whole thing. Why hasn`t it been done before? Because political governments need votes, and these sardars command a lot of votes. But, the government has realized there is no other choice. The solution is in the making now.

But I acknowledge you write good travelogues.

abbay dybbut, agar tu itna bara tees maar khan hai, to ja or jhunda jala newton masjid kay samnay. aur kyun kay teray likhnay kay undaz say pata chulta hai kay tu probably dishwasher has red lobster pay, main aik lakh rupay dun ga tujhay iss kartooth per. yeh paisay tairee behen kay jehez main kaam aain gay kyun kay tairee dishwaasher kee tunkha say paisay klect nahee ho saktay. shahbash.

as for regular karachites, we could not be happier. here is why:

in the mid-90`s, most of karachi was held hostage by mqm. around three to five thousand people died in the violence between mqm, haqiqi and the rangers. this whole tamasha only ended when rangers stepped in and cleaned the house.

my own family members who resided in localities like nazimabad and sakhi hassan and who were mqm voters were very grateful that army stepped and handed a dose of some tuff lovin to mqm. since that time. there has been a huge improvement in karachi`s economic and law and order situation. mqm has learnt the error of its ways and has come back to the mainstream.

same approach now needs to be applied to hinterland because karachi cannot progress in isolation. karachi simply dont have the infrastructure to support the kind of migration that occcurs into karachi from up country. in addition, most crimes in karachi are comitted by people from up country. if karachi progresses and hinterland stagnates, this situation will get much worse.

the hinterland unfortunately will continue to stagnate as long as the power of fuedals and sardars are not curtailed. this group of people will be the biggest losers should people under their influence become economically empowered. thats why there so much tamasha over kb dam. also situation in baluchistan started worsening when govt started announcing plans for economic development. government obviously cannot tolerate groups blowing up pipelines or killing security officers because there can be very little progress without peace.

#43 by faisaluno

For a very graphic description of what mqm was doing, please refer to an article by Urstruly on the subject on this site.

during my younger years i lived in jhelum, i remember every other young man was in the army, couple of years ago i went back for a visit hardly anyone was interested a career in the army, most wanted to migrate or start a business. i wonder where the army does it`s recruitment nowdays?

Do Balochis need our sympathy?

Read this story and see the pictures of pre-historic lifestyles of Baloch people in Pirco. Has any military ruler thought of these pre-historic lives of these people b4 constructing a mega GHQ (bigger than Pentagon in size) complex?

Extravagance and pomposity comes to mind than economic deprivation of these people. Not to blame the individuals but the military training they get and the country they live i.e in Pakistan (Generals can naturally ogle for the Presidentship of that country).

Size of Pentagon 29 acres.

Area of new GHQ 2438 acres.



http://balochvoice.com/Balochistan/Pirco_foto_story.htm

Are they part of Pakistan?

Do Balochis have resources to develop?

Read this link on ``Economic Potential of Balochistan``

http://governmentofbalochistan.blogspot.com/2006_04_01_governmentofbalochistan_archive.html

is one mussalman worth thirteen indians? i certainly believe that but its pretty funny to see indians subscribe to this view as well.

check out the number of people have died in assam around the same period around bugti became allah ko pyara:

http://indiaenews.com/2006-08/18511-killed-wounded-assam-explosion.htm

Assam Police chief (Intelligence) Khagen Sharma said militants suspected to be from the outlawed United Liberation Front of Asom (ULFA) hurled a grenade at a roadside market in the oil township of Duliajan, 520 km east of here.

`One person died on the spot and six more, including two army soldiers, were seriously injured,` Sharma told IANS.

...The ULFA is blamed for a wave of bombings in Assam that killed 13 people and wounded 54 others in the past week....``

zeemax, i grew up in north nazimabad playing cricket with folks who became deeply involved with mqm. i am very familiar with how this organisation functions.

It is unbecoming of a President of a country to order and carry out assassination of a political foe -- that is political gangsterism of a Mafia Lord kind -- Musharraf has grievously harmed his country -- the way it was irreparably harmed by his predecessor in `71

Before he further damage the country -- it`s time for Mushrraf to make amends for his atrocious policy of resolving complex political problems with arrests, beatings, jailings -- and now the unthinkable totally unacceptable targeted assassinations of his political foes.

the road to hell is paved with god intentions -- and Mr. Mushrraf has certainly built a grand trunk road of follies despite his good intentions -- during his wacky, autocratic, divisive, long tiring rule of 5 years -- purported to go on for another 7 more nightmarish years!!!

with this act of extra judicial killing of a Baloch icon -- General Mushrraf has demeaned himself, his army and his country -- he has personally caused his country a grievous injury -- caused lots of grief, divisions, anger, turmoil and polarization in an already divided country.

Enough is enough.

it is time for Mr. Mushrraf to realize that he has outspent his usefulness for the unity, national integrity and stability of his country -- it is time for him to resign and step down -- and let the healing begin -- before he irreparably fractures his own country -- one more time.

Zeemax,
I approve of the wealth of information you have provided.
My view is that every Civil Society grows around the system that it inherits as heritage and the distribution and exercise of power within it. The B Area Pilicy in Balochistan though defranchising the people makes the Sardar very powerful. Right under the eyes of the government, moreso with its connivance, Bugti has usurped the wealth due more to his tribe, for years. For the events to arrive at the stage that they have, the biggest culprits are the various governments that have tolerated, nurtured and approved of such a culture.

Now culture cannot be trans planted overnight and never with military power. As Nazar pointed out, extremism will occupy the space vacated by the Sardars and there would be a bigger problem at hand.

At the same time, forces working against the federation will strenghten and create a Law and Order Situation.

The problem in Balochistan now calls for a much greater political initaitive.

This is my view. You may have your`s.

As an aside, i do not approve your choice of words.

Be Well

Cheerios

“My message to Musharraf is this: General, you have finally managed to kill the man you wanted. Now, if you possess an honourable bone in your body, do the decent thing and hand the body of Nawab Bugti to his family members. The least my dear friend Akbar Bugti deserves is the dignity of a proper funeral and a final resting place in the land he loved enough to give his life for,” the statement concludes. ( Veteran politician Sherbaz Khan Mazari as quoted by DAWN)

as I have said in the previous post I will say it again -- the only decent thing for Mr. Mushrraf to do is to resign for making such a mess of his career both as a President of the country and as the COAS.

#49 by ijaz_gul

Now we`re talking.

The problem in Balochistan now calls for a much greater political initaitive.

This is absolutely correct. Now that a major enforcement measure has been taken, the State must cease any further hostility forthwith and extend the political initiatives vigorously. The thing about vacuum is correct too because it appears the Sardari nizam is as good as dead with nothing to replace it. I think Government would do well to dissolve the provincial government, and hold free & fair elections under international observers.

I have seen `Pakhtunistan` in bloom when the NAP govt was dissolved by ZAB. `Sindhu Desh` has been in bloom many times. Even `Jinnahpur` was in bloom after mqm was kicked out. So nothing to fret about. Heavens are not going to fall. If a murderous sardar is buried under rubble of his own making ... cro-magnon or otherwise, all for the better.

I consider Bugti debacle as the gangland turf war between two crime families - feudal lords and napak fauj. The gang with bigger guns won.

But credit is still due to Bugti, for he was the only man who was man enough to stand up for the dignity of a woman, Dr. Shazia Khalid. Had he chosen to remian silent as the 150 million khassi men of Pakistan did at the attrocity committed to Dr. Khalid, Bugti would have been alive today.

i don`t think pakistan or india can survive has unified states if there was western democracy.

#47 by faisaluno

Faisaluno, how many indian provinces have various rebellions going on? I forgot ...

Can you post something on it from your research?

#52 by Urstruly

The high-up insiders of Pakistan Petroleum Limited (owners of Sui Gas) say otherwise re the Shazia Khalid incident. Pls don`t get carried away. I am no more in favour of military rule than yourself, but this was another game. She was not raped by any army man ...

contd......#55........

Of-course it would have appeared odd to you, as it did to most, that why did the Bugtis suddenly started to rocket the gas plant over the rape of a woman who wasn`t even Baluch? She was Sindhi.

zeemax

Had I not seen a half an hour documentry on Shazia khalid, where she herself accuses military goons for committing this horrendous crime, I would have second doubts. There is no investigation on this case and dictator himself appeared on national TV to claim that military goons didn`t do it. How the fuck does he know when there is no criminal investigation of this case.

#57 by Urstruly

Internal investigation by military was held. As you know police cannot interfere in military criminal investigations, not only in Pak but everywhere. Besides, the accused captain was interviewed on TV by telephone. I myself have seen that.

Dr. Shazia was under lots of pressures. PPL knows the true story because only the company`s security was there in the premises at the time. That version was not publicised.

zeemax

In cases of rape, an accused is presumed guilty until proven innocent, especially when the rape victim accuses by naming a name. Police can very well interfere in a criminal investigation of a soldier if a civilian is involved. Military code of justice and Pak penal code give precedence to civilian law over military in such cases. For example, if a military personnel kills his wife, the police investigates the case and cuprit is tried in civilian court. But if a soldier rapes another soldier of his unit then Military police investigates the case, a military court tries the case, and culprit is sentenced according to military code which is a subset of civilian penal code. Only in case of treason and some specific military offences civilian authrity does not have jurisdiction over a military personnel.

#59 by Urstruly

I`ll suffice to say she was under a lot of `pressure`, indeed for her own life and that of her husband.

Zeemax,
Once this unfortunate case of Shazia came up on chowk, I continues to hold the same view as your`s and its there on my interacts. I may add that the incident was framed to provide a precursor.

As for filling the void, who would do it. Given precedence, we could well head for another mess.

Merits/demerits of Bugti aside, his death has provided more spark to violence in Pakistan than hanging of Bhutto. Its the symbol and icon that the dead Sardar creates, that could be damaging.

Cheerios

Re: # 60

you show me a rape victim who is not under ``lot of pressure`` and I will give you that it is `suffice to say`.

Sayings of Chairman Maosharraf:

``Whoever wants to harm Pakistan nationally or internationally would have to fight with me first, (in the Harm-The-Country Contest)`` -- ``no one would be allowed to harm the country (EXCEPT me) while I remain in power.``(AP)

#63 by nasah

In a nutshell, Musharraf is an illegitimate and mechiavellian ruler, bumbling through a pretense of democracy, clinging to power by the skin of his teeth which either will not last long or will be perpetuated indefinitely through full military control and dissolution of parliament.

But, this is one thing which was necessary to be done, and no other Government would have been able to do it even if they had wanted it. Ending the sardari system was always the key to development in Baluchistan and security of the country.

Nawab Bugti life is a conundrum, he was brutal with his opponents, fiercely tribalistic but did he deserve to be killed in this manner with no trial that is debatable. Pak Govt has no qualms in settling issues with the tribal chiefs of Fata yet have no patience with nationalist, this has been unfortunately Pakistan;s history. Killing of Bugti will always be controversial and may prove to be Musharraf`s biggest mistake. People have short memories and live in their short term successes, they forget what happened to Indira Gandhi, Mujeeb ur Rehman both of these leaders died at the hands of their own people.

Re: # 65

Cant agree more. Musharraf is not accountable to anyone. That`s the key point. He gets away with anything he does.

People are used to this kind of dictatorship for 2-3 generations. People should get inspiration from Nepal and Philippines, where the powerful King and elected President were removed by the power of people. Or else take inspiration from Mao and let Fahim of PPP, MMA of Baluchistan + NWFP, MQM and PML-N reps forget their differences (since PML is spineless and mushponsored) & march with people from all villages & towns of Pakistan seize Islamabad and send him back to barracks get rid of this monster Musharraf, install an interim govt followed by general elections. Dont guillotine him but let him enjoy his retirement perks. Can these politicians do that?????

There`d be some genuine solution to these problems like Balochistan and AQ.

zeemax,

here is the link to the article you were asking:

http://select.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=FB0710F834540C708DDDAD0894DE404482

``Estimates by Indian intelligence officials and Maoist leaders suggest that the rebel ranks in India have swelled to 20,000, though the number is impossible to verify. One senior Indian intelligence official estimated that Maoists exert varying degrees of influence over a quarter of India`s 600 districts.``

also separatist violence has recently flared up all over our neighbourhood in countries with varied political systems such as democratic/secular/buddhist/dictatorship etc. the most serious fighting recently has occurred in s.l. which has been a democracy all its life and the fight is between hindu tamils and the buddhist sinhalese.

kurds in turkey have also upped the ante. there were a series of bomb blast in turkey last weekend in which if i am not mistaken, around 20 british tourist were hurt badly. kurds have also been very active in iran and kurdish bases in iran were recently attacked by joint turkish/iranian petrol.

i guess the biggest difference between violence in our neighbouring countries and in pak is that violence in pak has been on a very limited scale. yet the secular neocon wannabe pakistanis pretend that its the most serious issue on earth. the other interesting aspect is that no where else but in pakistan will you see pakistani citizens heaping praise on a man who openly boasted about killing pakistani army jawans. in comparison, in turkey, you would be thrown in jail if you were to express any support for abdullah occalan - the separatist kurdish leader rotting in a turkish prison. i guess this explains why turks lorded over a huge empire for nearly 500 years while people in our part of the world took their shalwar down for any two bit general who came across from central or west asia.

#67 by faisaluno

Thanks. But I was really interested in the Indian insurgencies. I believe it is in 16 provinces. Do you have details? Which province is which insurgency? And particularly the Maoist victory in sidelining the King (he`ll be exiled or otherwise eliminated soon) upon Indian Maoists?

#66 by VRV

``else take inspiration from Mao and let Fahim of PPP, MMA of Baluchistan + NWFP, MQM and PML-N reps forget their differences``

Trying to re-live some bad Indian dream? Mao and Fahim? You show your poor knowledge abt Pakistan and then try and write stupid things...It is a good idea to learn a few things before you run your mouth...Fahim and Mao?......You are khasi_nuts...

#69 by HP

Yeah that`s the problem with low-class ignorant hindus ...

Re: # 69

HP,

I didn`t write this for you, khasi dickhead! Your parents diden`t teach you basic manners, you maggot!

I didn`t compare Mao with Fahim. I asked the leaders in Pakistan to take inspiration from Mao, you khasi dickhead.

Is that clear, you uncivilised Khasi?

Now the macaca gets mad. Inspiration from Mao for what?????

Re: # 70

Zeejadi,

I am not a Tweedledee like you. I am happy about my class. BTW, I am familiar with your class by now. Thanks but no thanks,

Re: # 67
i hope this violence doesn`t escalate because british property companies have invested billions along the coast, in villas,condo`s. recently turkey was becoming the playground of brits.

Re: # 67

Faisal,

Past thirty years plus have been a bull run for the mullahs in Pakistan whereas secularists/nationalists have been harrassed and hounded from its inception. After 50years of constant indoctrination Pak establishment is trying re-engineer another concept for Pakistan which requires the bacha kucha secularists. And that too is unacceptable to our masses....

zeemax, i will dig up that article later.

also tomorrow is the turkish victory day when turks kicked out the europeans after wwi. europeans wanted to do to turkey, what they had done to the middle east which is to divide it into chotay tukrays. had they succeeded, istanbul today would be a greek city just like jerusalem today is a yahoodi city. this fact is important to remember because goras still cant bear to see strong muslim countries. thats why two bit leaders like akbar bugti are potrayed as martyrs in neocon media like nytimes. its precisely for this reason that kurds have been actived in turkey after an islamic govt came to power in turkey and the govt stopped bowing in front of goras.

Re: # 72

Who looks more closer to a macaca?
Who else, Pervez Musharraf. Pl compare.

You get leaders you deserve the most. No doubt. Like people, like rulers!

I was talking of the combination of all major political parties trying something Mao did in the past, not necessarily the same comparision in all respects.....dimwits need clarifications, unfortunately!

Since Benazir and Nawaz are outlaws, they need some guys from their parties... people came to my mind, I gave... thats all...

BTW... your Tweedledum (who else!) is with you......?

Your leaders are your headache, not ours... good luck to you and your kind of leader (macaca?).

#77 by VRV

So you are saying you had good intentions but poor knowledge.

Any inspiration from Mao leads to a different conclusion. Obviously, you don’t understand politics or would not have come out with such a simplistic scheme.

I try to explain it to simple-minded people like you that it took India 200 years to get rid of Brits. How many political alliances you saw during that time? It took Hindus 800 years to get freedom. How many Rajas put their armies together to get rid of afghans or Persians?

Political conflicts don’t have simple solutions.

#74 by aslam644

Do you want turkey to be the playground of the brits?

#76 by faisaluno

Yes Faisal. Turkey is the key to a lot of things.

I was in Athens once and asked for coffee in a bar. The girl got me one and it was fantastic. So I asked the girl what kind of coffee it was? She said, well .. it is Turkish Coffee but we call it Greek Coffee because Turks are our enemies.

The Turkish influence is everywhere in Greece.

Re: # 76

which history books have u been reading? JI digest? Takbeer? Turks kicked out the goras? Dude u really need to stop writing and start reading, it seems your constant posting on the net has taken its toll and u have coompletly lost grip over reality. It was the Ottoman empire who had there ass kicked in wwi, since they were stabbed in the back by their muslims brothers from Hijaz (Wahabis), they were left with a Turkish identity.

By the way, it was a SECULARIST who defended turkish rights and is considered to their founding father just like MA Jinnah another Secularist. Had it been left to the religious clergy, well we all know what happened in the Middle East.

Re: # 79

HP,

If anybody gives me nonsense I give it back with compound interest. I dont take anybody`s nonsense. I live my life you live yours. We can agree or disagree but we`d know our limits.
Give respect and take respect.

If I am guily of poor knowledge, I would accept but not brag about it.

I had this regime change in Nepal and Philippines in my mind, when I was thinking of Mush.

Can you replicate that in your country is the question. You guys know that better than us. In any case that is your problem. It`s my mistake I said something.

I read world history in 1993 for my examinations. I may not know the intricate details but I do remember what Mao did for the Chinese rural folks and feudalism and ultimate establishment of the republic.

Good bye.....

#77 by VRV

I was talking of the combination of all major political parties trying something Mao did in the past...

And pray tell us which major political parties Mao combined?

Or if you don`t mean that, which action of Mao do you want?

Aaah .. you have probably heard of his Long March ... so that`s it.

Ok. But why didn`t you just say that? You want a Long March ... silly ...

He read world history in 1993 for his examinations, and he advises Muslims on what to do ...

Typical pathetic macaca.

Re: # 84

Zee,

Your country, your macaca and your problem. I am sorry, it`s not my business. I am off.....

Re: # 21

I think Hindus got conquered by every ``idiot`` because they systematically disenfranchised large sections of population from participating in governance, deprived them of the minimal chance to improve their lot, so much so that ``Kou nrip hoye hamein kaa haani`` (whoever is King, what`s it to us?) became a common saying.

As far as getting affected by terror is concerned, I think I am running the same risk as any other Indian here in India. I am not speaking from a comfortable armchair in US. What about you?

Please don`t worry about destabilizing Pakistan. They have enough Jihadis of their own to keep them embroiled for many years. So we better address the problems of illiteracy, water, electricity, infrastructure which are more immediate concerns for us, the Indian Indians. Bomb blasts occur once in a while. Load shedding happens everyday. To counter terrorism we need to improve our policing and intelligence, be more vigilant. It is not necessary to send arms to whichever place.

VRV,

Thanks. And please do not grace us with your presence again.

Re: # 85

Zee,

I am pathetic. Pl arrange something for your wife with your prince friends.... KY jelly etc.,

#89

Off with you now ...

Re: # 89

Zee,

You like it ha?

You spend all your time on Chowk and that`s what happens there..., you macaca Zeehadi!

#91

You have nothing to contribute. You have exposed your 1993 superficial examinations knowledge. Now what do you want from this board? Do you just want an exchange of abuse?

Go and wait for a board in which you have something to say of which you have knowledge.

Re: # 92

Zeehadi,

You always run after women on these boards with KY jelly etc.. your own medicine of abuse.. you like it ha?

Be yourslef, Samjhe?

Re: # 93

Yarr Zee Bhai thorra qayal kiya karoo. VRV is about to break down in tears. Naa roo mayra bacha tsk tsk tsk. VRV why you in the kitchen if you can`t take the heat? We can talk nasty about ur wife but then again, we don`t have to talk nasty about her, i mean i m sure shes a hindooo, enuff said right? VRV go on move on outta here. Oh one question, like i am taking this southeast asian religion class rite. And this white guy was just flabbergasted that Hindooos drink cow-piss as some kind of ``parsad``, i yelled at him and told him no, they don`t drink piss, they just kindda rub it all over them. Then that white boy came with shastri you ex PM drinkin his own piss, and i was just speechless. See i tried to defend u guys, but yo all r just stupid dawg.

Zeemax, HP, Faisal

A simple google search ``insurgencies in india`` brought up 304,000 sites. Inidian unity is a facade. It has never been united nor ever will be. In fact, it wasn`t even a country before 1947 as it is today. It`s just a patched-up job by their last masters, the departing British.

#80 by zeemax on August 29, 2006 10:49am PT
#74 by aslam644

Do yo