The Seventh Wave - Pakistan’s Chance to Achieve Escape Velocity

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Re: # 56 by masadi on September 6, 2006 12:22pm PT

Dear Masadi:

By responding to my posts, just shows that you are dignifying me in more than one way. You keep me in the conversation and with your stupid irrelevant posts, you just show where your thoughts are stuck.

Frankly, I can not blame you for your thoughts. Unlike me you are a product of soft sciences, and this is not where you belong. The author of this article is trying to gauge whether his idea of encouraging Pakistan get a FAB is feasible or not. That is the physical side of having some physical asset, electrical engineering, et. al.

He probably did not assume that there are folks, like yourself, on chowk who would throw out issues that are not worth a dime in this discussion. Your educational upbringing is only suitable when there is a discussion on some political economic conversation, and not where issues of knowledge based transfer is discussed. Your tearing down sentences to prove your notion does show your lack of knowledge of the subject matter.

Electrical engineering is all about on/off and electrons, and not some theory written by those in softer science. In engineering schools they never teach social sciences, because frankly we have no need for them.

So please clean up your act (at least on this board) and be a by-stander reader, and maybe you will get some nugget of enlightenment as to what engineers are all about.

Respectfully submitted,

I find it odd that masadi feels Pakistanis cannot compete in the current world economy. Western MNCs care about cheap labor. If Pakistan opens the doors they will invest.

It reminds me of the Indian bureaucrats who wanted to protect India`s population from exploitation.

behram writes <<< Dear masadi:

You have an uncanny way of deflecting the topic to issues that are marginal as best. >>>

You post shows that you have completed your transition to being a mirasi making nonsense posts. If you think that you can have any kind of industry in Pakistan that is going to be immune to international trade and its rules rigged against developing countries, or whether any industry is going to take Pakistan out of its position of misery inspite of the global world system, then you are high on something. If you cannot answer my posts that is one thing, blabbering away asking for ``documentation`` like bs khan or saying that it is irrelevant when it sure is 100% on target shows your mirasi mentality.

So, if my posts were irrelevant how do you explain the following by the author of this article:

1. <<< The least that these ‘Enlightened Amir(s)-ul-Momineen’ can do is to provide an enabling environment that will empower people to harness their latent entrepreneurial zeal to fuel the Industrial and technological growth required to take us there...... >>>

2. <<< Take the Philippines for example; they have managed to carve out a good niche market for themselves in the Testing and Packaging sector. All major semiconductor firms of the world have a low cost facility in the Philippines that churn out their high volume parts >>>

3. <<< Incase they need a hint where to start their marketing blitz from, the answer is Europe. Modern European semiconductor manufacturers have shown the same enterprising spirit that their ancestor`s trading companies showed and are extremely keen on exploring Virgin Islands of opportunity, and who else is better aware of this European trait than the people of the subcontinent. In my opinion, European powerhouses such as ST Microelectronics, Philips Semiconductors, Infineon Technologies and the likes thereof could be successfully persuaded >>>>

Re:#53 by masadi on September 5, 2006 9:50pm PT

Dear masadi:

You have an uncanny way of deflecting the topic to issues that are marginal as best.

The writer of this article is promoting the idea to have semiconductor FAB in Pakistan. Nothing wrong with that thought. Some us enlightened ones would like to see Design houses to flourish as a preamble to a full blown FAB houses. And that is actually where the discussion is lying.

If you have noticed, it is only you who has brought in some other issues, which is quite unrelated to the topic which the writer is trying to have. You are the only one, who has post after post, and site after site, who suggest other non-related stuff.

Let me put it frankly to you, masadi, you are very dear to me and I love to interact with your thoughts, but somehow this particular streak in your thought is not needed, at this moment in this article.

Almost all the interactors have advanced degrees from well established US Universities, and calling us all sorts of names is not at all funny.

Here is some of deflection that was thrown into the discussion.

Talk about { tahmed writes <<< AND in fact nationalization weakens the governments.....in separation of government from economic activity are lost. >>> and then your response to it.....

Actually, you wasted over 12 precious lines in your post # 53, to answer something irrelevant. Now, how is that time used efficiently used to communicate between fellow Pakistanis who love their country?

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Another example of your post is #52

To another post by tahmed, you wasted 21 lines in your theory.

All of this to me is non-informative and total waste of time in relation to the discussion at hand.

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Another example of your post is #51, wherein you spend another 10 lines in discussing issues beyond the scope of this article.

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And in response to my post, you misconstrued to my asking a very innocent question relating the future of R&D in Pakistan. Actually, that question was kinda tongue-in-cheek. But, it is you who deflects it into wherever. Why?

See, unlike you, I am proud of my country and its fellow engineers. I believe, that Pakistani engineers are second to none in this world.

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Finally, I do not agree with the Chowk Staff to censure your post.

However, I do want the author of the article to use his/her right and moderate his site. Wouldn`t you agree?

As always,

Respectfully submitted,

masadi: Thank you for your profound thoughts. :-)

tahmed writes <<< AND in fact nationalization weakens the goverments policy, and does not strengthen it. this is because of the checks and balances inherent in separation of government from economic activity are lost. >>>

So the economic activity is going to regulate itself, abandon the profit motive and look after the masses and take care of the environment and achieve an equitable distribution of wealth and income. What kind of fantastic absuridity is that? People like tahmed have no problem with government intervention when it strengthens the corporations and their clout or bails them out with massive corporate welfare that is financed with our tax dollars. He has a lot of problems with governement when it tries to regulate wholesale looting of third world assets by multinationals who will send all their earning back to their home countries resulting in a multiple exit of capital. Nationalization by a people`s government where production and profits are geared towards local need fulfilment is very good and a welcome alternative to explotation of resources by multinationals while the people languish in poverty inspite of their hard labor.

tahmed writes <<< In the US, individual states compete with one another to attract foreign investors. Recently, Toyota became the second largest auto seller in the US, pushing Ford to number three and forcing the latter to shut down some facilities. No one in the US batted an eyelid. And what is true for the US in fact applies even more to Pakistan. >>>

Nonsense. Individual states and cities and town might compete but always to their detriment, most of the local manufacturers have already relocated overseas to take advantage of cheap labor, which has resulted in no benefit to those countries while huge profits for the manufacturers. If you look at the aggregate picture of this movement, if it is not overseas it is towards the southern states where unions are weak. These are shenanigans to avoid any regulation and take advantage of everything while getting tax holidays and exemptions and free rent.

If Ford and other US car manufacturers were going out of business because of Toyota, as is the case with `Third World` industry that is completely wiped out and non-existant, then many eye lids would be batted, many eye lids were batted when China placed a bid for Unocal and the US government did everything to block their purchase and forced them to withdraw.

Don`t think you can fool people here with such bs, people look at the world and see a handful of countries dominating industry, which gives them monopoly power in dealing with the rest of the world, and in that group there is the US and Europeans and their protectorates like Japan while the rest of the world is languishing under their rules in crushing poverty and you want us to believe that ``what is true for the US is true for Pakistan``. Dishonesty of the kind where you say that powerful US corporations will just sit by and let someone destroy them without batting an eyelid, when they have shown us often enough that they are willing to destroy whole countries for their profits is just shameful on your part.

tahmed writes <<< You cannot build an extension to a house in the US without getting two or three visits by a government inspector. You cannot operate a restaurant without regular inspections and loss of license if even they see a cockroach in the kitchen. You can complain to the local government if you have been gypped by a merchant and have them intervene on your behalf >>>

That is all in theory, the same ``theory`` exists in Pakistan as well. There is wide scale corruption of a much larger scale in the US, invading and destroying a whole country based on lies is that not corruption? Enron and the massive Savings and Loan fraud that the government bailed out on the backs of ordinary tax payers, was that not corruption? Iran/Contra, Watergate and on and on. Regarding your cockroach example, it does not work that way, I have worked at restaurants in the US during my student days where rats ran wild but they never lost their licence and the whole period of struggle that led to these laws that protect the people, they did not develop among a starving/uneducated people, they required a base, the same base that you will not let Pakistan develop as you promote dependency upon the West.