Comprehending Time

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tahmed writes <<< As discussed in #44, our brains simply lack the capacity at this time to comprehend the nature of the universe even as well established by quantum physics at one end and the theory of relativity at the other >>>

Of course the mirasi will use logic to try to prove that logic is futile, as if Quantum physics and relativity came from alien brains. It is not the limit of the brain that fails to comprehend the true nature of time, just like it wasn`t the limit of the brain that failed to comprehend that the earth was not flat. The secrets of reality take time to be uncovered by man in small incremental steps, it is no magic nor an all or none game, but mirasis would not understand

tahmed in #47 <<< #45 masadi: you can keep barking insults at me, and i can keep ignoring them. when we get tired of this game, we`ll switch to another game where I will throw you a stick, and you will run and fetch. >>>

I am not interested in games with mirasis, if you quit barking I will quit busting your mythology, what I will not permit, to the best of my ability, is for poodles of the colonials, like you, to mislead people.

freethinker #46 I am by no means belittling (as you say) the progress that has been made over the past couple of centuries. What I am saying is that there a great deal more progress we would need to make in order to comprehend the meaning of time. And indeed, that progress would not be a linear projection of past progress, but something qualitatively quite different.

That difference being changes to the human brain itself!! As discussed in #44, our brains simply lack the capacity at this time to comprehend the nature of the universe even as well established by quantum physics at one end and the theory of relativity at the other. Do you disagree with that?

#45 masadi: you can keep barking insults at me, and i can keep ignoring them. when we get tired of this game, we`ll switch to another game where I will throw you a stick, and you will run and fetch.

tahmed:

You take a very dim view of the progress that science has made over the last couple of centuries. If we do not yet know the ultimate truth, it doesn’t mean that we are still as ignorant as in the past.

In physics, twentieth century alone gave us theory of relativity, theory of quantum mechanics, and theory of Big Bang. Before relativity, time was considered as absolute; it was there and that was that. Relativity told us that time was not absolute; it is relativistic.

These new theories gave us new vocabulary and the terms that our forefathers had never used before; they are mere routine now. Twentieth century also gave us computers and artificial intelligence. We, who are outside of the mainstream of science, fail to appreciate what science is doing for us, the humans. Theory of biological evolution is one of the most prominent milestones of human knowledge. We have much better comprehension of physical time now than ever before.

Science is different from metaphysics which seeks to provide final answers (mostly wrong) to our questions. Science answers one question and raises two new ones. It should not frustrate us because we will never be able to answer all the questions correctly. Search for the answers is the exciting pursuit. Hopefully, twenty first century will give us the so-called Theory of Everything and then we shall be able to comprehend the natural phenomena much better.

I don’t agree with you when you assert “even the finest minds working at the frontiers of physics and math - cannot intuitively grasp the meaning of time any more than a dog can grasp the meaning of algebra. That is, our minds are simply not wired to be able to understand this.” And you know that that’s not true. Progress in science is both heartening and sobering at the same time.

Like everyone else, I am also affected by what is going on around us in the world. So I do write on the political issues also. I have sensed that a Chowk writer writes the essays and articles with a different viewpoint than the interactors most of whom are inextricably trapped in petty politics of India and Pakistan. No matter what the subject matter is, they drag the old and trite petty political issues invariably into the discussion. So please try to understand that when I write on current affairs, my intention is not to prompt meaningless discussion. Most of the interactors do not have anything else to write about. If I were managing Chowk, I’ll cut the trivial and meaningless discussion without a second thought.

Mohammad Gill

tahmed writes <<< I am glad you got back to writing on something more original than the usual political and communal garbage that keeps most posters preoccupied. >>>

Of course anything criticizing the object of his worship, the US elite gets translated by him as ``communal garbage``. This by the way is further empirical verification of points # 3 and #1 of the Mirasi Mentality, whose poster child tahmed is.

By the way evolution by natural selection in theory is not something that humans or others ``gave themselves``, it is based on happy accidents that are naturally selected because they give survival advantage to those that have happened to have such accidents through no effort of their own. Learn something before spewing nonsense, but what else can we expect of mirasis?

Mr. Gill,

I am glad you got back to writing on something more original than the usual political and communal garbage that keeps most posters preoccupied.

Your article basically describes some history of attempts made by humans to understand the meaning of time. It does not of course lead us any closer to understanding exactly what this meaning is. And indeed, I think it is safe to say that we humans - even the finest minds working at the frontiers of physics and math - cannot intuitively grasp the meaning of time any more than a dog can grasp the meaning of algebra. That is, our minds are simply not wired to be able to understand this.

So perhaps, before anything else, humans need to give themselves more powerful brains that are wired to intuitively grasp what the finest and best trained minds among us can merely faintly glimpse today: the strange worlds that are outside the realm of our everyday existence, i.e. the micro-world of particle physics on the one hand, and the macro-world of relativity on the other. In other words, we need a better ``computer`` than the ``current version`` that we have inherited through billions of years of slow evolution.

This may sound like a far-fetched idea - but then, if the brain can evolve from that of a small mouse-like creature 60 million years ago (our common ancestor) to that of a human, then there is no reason why it cannot evolve further. And if it can evolve naturally, then it is also possible - through advancements in molecular biology - for the brain to be improved through scientific advancements.

Re: # 40
I am surprised that you say, `` Since joining this chowk, masadi, has consistently potrayed that non-muslims, like myself, are somehow leading muslims astray...``
I thought you are a fallen Musalman and just needling Musalmans! Who are you then?

Do you have an inkling why Iranians in the ancient times accepted Islam (and became more civillized according to Arabs thinkers) but then majority of Hindoos stuck to their own faith?
This means some these fellowsthoght not every thing in Islam is all chutzpah. Do you agree?

Kamath

behram writes <<< Just to show that I am different than most others who interact on this chowk. And frankly, this has becom e my trade mark. >>>

Another common trait of the Mirasi Mentality is their unjustified arrogance and pride. When he says ``different`` know that he means different in a superior and not inferior way, in other words he considers himself better than the Muslims and the others on here, similar to how the White man consdiers himself and his culture ``different`` i.e. superior. The pathetic bigot cannot even produce a coherent thought without bigotry and considers himself different. There is nothing different about him, he is just as much a Mirasi as the many others that act in a similar manner on here.

behram writes in #40 <<< And this is exactly what I have been asking this muslim believer masadi. Since joining this chowk, masadi, has consistently potrayed that non-muslims, like myself, are somehow leading muslims astray. >>>

Another trait of the Mirasi mentality is that they will lie shamelessly and in the open to prove their non existant points. When I talk about the US elite I certainly am not talking about non Muslims like behram, I certainly am not talking about religious theology and I certainly am not restricting the effects of what they do or do not do to Muslims alone. Regarding behram`s intellect, as is evident it is mediocre at best that is when he controls his bigotry which is not very often, so most often it is just pathetic. Any damn fool can claim to be a genius but his work on here is available for all to evaluate, as is mine. Regarding Muslims, most have no clue about the Quran, distoritons of Islam, folklore and traditions guide their behavior more than the Quran, and their problems are not too different from the problems of other people in the Third World and most could have been countered if they had acted on the advice of the Quran and developed `taqwa` or consciousness of their environment and world.

Re: # 39 by kamath on September 10, 2006 7:36am PT

Dear Kamath Sahib:

I have no idea what I was in my previous life. Do you?

{Re: # 33
Behram Ustad!

Why do you write ``--respectfully submitted...``?. Were you a courtier at any time in your previous life? } Just to show that I am different than most others who interact on this chowk. And frankly, this has become my trade mark.

{Now regarding your statement,``..Nobody is leading Musilims anywhere, they are doing a fine job of going astray by themselves....``, If Allah created the world and spoke to Muhammad directly and transmitted His immortal words which you find in Quran, why did Muslims go astray?}

And this is exactly what I have been asking this muslim believer masadi. Since joining this chowk, masadi, has consistently potrayed that non-muslims, like myself, are somehow leading muslims astray. How is that possible? Further, if they are on the right path, then why are they so miserable? which you also ask.....{Why doesn`t He do something now that things are really going bad in the 21st century? }

This you must ask this masadi fellow, who is a real believer. Frankly, I have no knowledge of Arabic quotations. He can elucidate you with his belief on this.

Now, frankly, I consider myself a person of intellect, and I would like to know whether a person who is an intellect become a believer. Most of the muslims that I have asked this question say No, absolutely not. I have to ignore my intellect and then maybe I can become a believer. Can a believer remain a person of intellect?

{Salaam. } Thank you for sending me your blessings.

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 33
Behram Ustad!

Why do you write ``--respectfully submitted...``?. Were you a courtier at any time in your previous life?

Now regarding your statement,``..Nobody is leading Musilims anywhere, they are doing a fine job of going astray by themselves....``, If Allah created the world and spoke to Muhammad directly and transmitted His immortal words which you find in Quran, why did Muslims go astray? Why doesn`t He do something now that things are really going bad in the 21st century?

Salaam.
Kamath

Re: # 35 by masadi on September 10, 2006 0:05am PT

Dear Masadi:

Being a muslim, and a good muslim that you have always been, how can anyone such as me lead you anywhere? And this is what I suggested in {behram in #33 <<< Nobody is leading Musilims anywhere, they are doing a fine job of going astray by themselves. >>> }

You know being a proud non-muslim I have far superior intellect than you can ever dream of, and being a muslim, and a good one at that, you can never attain that level of intellect. You are a believer, and I respect that.

{Once again his bigotry that has overshadowed his intellect wins out and he sings his regular tune like a mirasi.} But, masadi, my music has been so useless, that you are immune to it, and the whole world knows that. Your belief has surely subjugated my superior intellect. Has it not?

Would you then say that your belief is far superior than any intellect in the world?

{Nobody can be as astray as personalities like you who cringe and crawl tyring their best to find excuses to mock when their own intellect stinks of pathetic mediocrity.} Of course you are correct, because you are a believer and you must recognize the mediocrity of my intellect. But, I am working on this intellect, the only one that I have got, and that is what you are trying to deconstruct.

So, coming back to genesis of this thread, how can an intellect lead astray the muslim believer who has no intellect? eh! Muslims are doing a fine job of going wherever they want to go to the ya ya land all by themselves, are they not?

{Respectfully submitted, (damn hypocrite)} And I respect that, because this is what is taught by your belief, I am sure. Thank you.

Respectfully submitted,

#36 writes << nd so the master goes on...after all he and his henchmen - sorry lynching party donot do the same with others. >>>


Another fine example of The Mirasi Mentality. When caught in his ignorance, the mirasi will try to invent things against the opponent based on stereotypes he carries of the alleged group he thinks the opponent belongs with. Read this thread who started the abuse, hamidm and the discussion with behram has spilled over from another thread where that mirasi was showing his true bigoted nature and then this nameless mirasi is talking about jinn and angels which had nothing to do either with his question or with the topic.

Re: # 34 Instead of throwing up ``fundamentalist``, djinn and arch angels for the purpose of mocking meaninglessly, try to rephrase your question which really hides your ignorance of the issue

and so the master goes on...after all he and his henchmen - sorry lynching party donot do the same with others.
pot calling kettle black and all that.... (t)

behram in #33 <<< Nobody is leading Musilims anywhere, they are doing a fine job of going astray by themselves. >>>

Once again his bigotry that has overshadowed his intellect wins out and he sings his regular tune like a mirasi. Nobody can be as astray as personalities like you who cringe and crawl tyring their best to find excuses to mock when their own intellect stinks of pathetic mediocrity.

Respectfully submitted, (damn hypocrite)