Has Hinduism had the Longest Tradition of Continuous Religion?

#224 by zeemax on September 10, 2006 2:42am PT
Manto is a non-Muslim ... trying to pass of as an Ismaili now ... who are Muslims.

Manto is a qadiani ....

Oh boy! I feel really blessed to be born as a hindu. Even though I eat beef, and don`t go to a temple for years I do not fear anyone declaring me a non-hindu.

Will this charlatan Murad Ali Baig also write an ``Islam Unvarnished``?

Re: #244 by Salim_Chauhan


Good.

Now let us look at these three Suras:

[1. Our belief in the One God, our declaration of His supremacy, His mercy, and His compassion and our request that He show us the right path. ]

This signifies a belief in One God or Monotheism.

[2. Our belief in the Oneness of God and our insistence that neither is He begotten nor does He beget. ]

Could you give me the number of this sura, so that I can understand from other sources what ``neither is He begotten nor does He beget`` signifies.


[3. The very essence of ``Pray and let Pray`` doctrine. We are urged to tell unbelievers ``I do not worship that which you worship and you do not worship that which I worship and you will not worship that which I worship and I will not worship that which you worship. So you go your way and I will go mine.`` This is a far cry from the conversion by force charge that we are constantly plagued by. This verse should forever discount such stupid allegations. ]

Actually it doesn`t, and I`ll go into why it doesn`t. But I`ll wait until you give me the number of the Sura for 2.

Thanks.

:-)

#245 Boomer (more (yeah, one can never have TOO MUCH fun!))

[I do get feed-back from a lot more ones who do not ``participate`` here..and boy what a sea-change is now out there.]

So, are the visa application lines in front of the Islamabad US embassy any shorter now?

#245 Boomer (to Trully)

[I fully agree about your ``worm`` angle.]

In other words – “worm”, “worm” mausere bhai!

And how come you don`t take the trouble to express your ``candid`` views on regular publications - like my hometown Washington Post?

Too chicken?!!

#235 by Urstruly
Zeemax

``I believe that for every ``worm``, as you put it, there are at least 10 ears who want to listen to what we have to say...........``

Urstruly:
remember when the ``god Abba`` or the self-appointed CHOWIDAR prowled here 24/7? Now he has turmed tail; but he LURKS..I know it.

Remember how things were then?..this site was crawling with secularoon, liberaloon, munaafiquon, murtadoons?

I remember distinctly how you really engaged such kind of scum, and then you did see them through & through.

It is indeed a shame that the level of ``tolerance`` displayed here when it comes to our Nabi
(pbuh) but then one thing good is that we have become innured to such ``tolerance``. All censorship by commission, deletion, or even emission is ultimately the censor of the censor
and speaks volumes about a mindset. That I believe has been the greatest education, as far as I am concerned, imparted here.

I fully agree about your ``worm`` angle. That has been my purpose, as you would recall. The number of interacts & ``hits`` tells us where our real contituency lies and as you would recall I was the first one to mention it.

I do get feed-back from a lot more ones who do not ``participate`` here..and boy what a sea-change is now out there.

One does not converse with the converted, and this is a great place & opportunity for muslims. As I`ve already said ``if you do not go to madressa, the madressa will come to you.

and how much these guys really want it is eveidenced by the ``interest`` shown here in all subjects Islam..so much so even a ``hindu`` subject becomes a muslim-subject [ :) --I like this phrase]. There seems to be a thirst out there.

But once in a while Macaccing is good; but only once in a while and I hope you`ll be somewhat tolerant, nay a participaant too, in Macaccing [thank you HP] alongwith other muslims including Zeemax & myself.

#151 Krishna_abcd {``would like to take this opportunity to get you to do something that no other Muslim has done for me so far - could you KINDLY cut-and-paste just a few of these revolutionary suras from the Quran that has influenced you and other Muslims so much. And point out why they are so impressive?``]

Krishna,
I am leaving the cut & paste task in your capable hands. The following verses are from memory and are among my favorites:

Alhamdo lillahi rabbil alimeen. Ar rahman nir rahim. Malike yomiddin. Iyya ka naabudo wa iyya ka nastaeen. Ah dinas siratul mustaqeema siratal lazeena anamta alaihum, ghairil maghdoobe alaihim walad duaaleen. Ameen.

Qul Huwwal Laho Ahud. Allah hus samad. Lam yalid walam yulad. Walam yakullahu kofuwan ahud. :)

Qul ya ayyohal kafiroona la abudo ma tabadoona. Wala antum abadoona mabood wala ana abidum ma abudtum. Wala antum abadoona maabood. Lakum dinakum wali yadin.


Essentially, the three suras signifiy:

1. Our belief in the One God, our declaration of His supremacy, His mercy, and His compassion and our request that He show us the right path.

2. Our belief in the Oneness of God and our insistence that neither is He begotten nor does He beget.

3. The very essence of ``Pray and let Pray`` doctrine. We are urged to tell unbelievers ``I do not worship that which you worship and you do not worship that which I worship and you will not worship that which I worship and I will not worship that which you worship. So you go your way and I will go mine.`` This is a far cry from the conversion by force charge that we are constantly plagued by. This verse should forever discount such stupid allegations.

Thanks,

#194, Urstruly {``In all honesty, those people whose religion started with two colossal wars and kidnapping of a woman should be the last to point their fingers at others``}

Maulana Sahib,
In all honesty, I think that you are grossly mistaken in this statement. By all accounts, including those from Homer and the recent movie ``Troy,`` it is evident that the beautiful Helen was NOT kidnapped by Paris or his brother Hector. As far as I recall, there was only one war, the Trojan War, albeit a very long one. Perhaps you think that this long conflict mertis the designation of ``two colossal wars.``

As a resident of Istanbul, with Troy just across the Dardenelles on the Asian side, I find it necessary to stand up for Turkey and challenge your obviously pro-Greek rhetoric. By the laws of inheritence, Troy becomes Muslim while the forces of Agamemnon are Christian. As a self-proclaimed momin, your pro-Christian bias is shameful. Despite our disagreement, even your highly moralistic mind should agree that Helen had one hell of a posterior. :)

Jazakullah.

#194, Urstruly {``In all honesty, those people whose religion started with two colossal wars and kidnapping of a woman should be the last to point their fingers at others``}

Maulana Sahib,
In all honesty, I think that you are grossly mistaken in this statement. By all accounts, including those from Homer and the recent movie ``Troy,`` it is evident that the beautiful Helen was NOT kidnapped by Paris or his brother Hector. As far as I recall, there was only one war, the Trojan War, albeit a very long one. Perhaps you think that this long conflict mertis the designation of ``two colossal wars.``

As a resident of Istanbul, with Troy just across the Dardenelles on the Asian side, I find it necessary to stand up for Turkey and challenge your obviously pro-Greek rhetoric. By the laws of inheritence, Troy becomes Muslim while the forces of Agamemnon are Christian. As a self-proclaimed momin, your pro-Christian bias is shameful. Despite our disagreement, even your highly moralistic mind should agree that Helen had one hell of a posterior. :)

Jazakullah.

[#235 by Urstruly

Zeemax

I believe that for every ``worm``, as you put it, there are at least 10 ears who want to listen to what we have to say. Our job is not to put anyone in his place, instead our mission is to convey the message and perform our duty that we are charged with. When we lower ourselves down to their level, those who originally wanted to hear what we have to say, get idea that we are no different than them. We lose our credibility. So I beg you once more to focus on winning this war that has been imposed on us, Muslims, and ignore the distractions.

I intend to win this war, and I cannot do it without your help.]

I don`t know if you have ever watched ``looney tunes`` or not. But you remind me of Sylvester the cat trying to teach his son how to catch a mouse.

Re: #236 by Urstruly

Hitler`s followers could say the same thing - `` when an ``accusation``, is even right it becomes wrong`` etc. And accuse their critics of ``lowering`` themselves.

This way, nobody can accuse ANYONE of ANYTHING.

That`s obviously idiotic.

Show me how the beheading 700 unarmed men and selling their innocent and helpless women and children into slavery is ``right``.

Let`s take this one at a time.

#234 Zee

[The entire democratic system has to be dismantled and replaced with an Islamic system. ]

I thought that was already accomplished by that namesake of yours.

Zia-ul-Haque!

And old Zee has at least the heart to feel bad about it.

Not you, Trully sahib, not you!!

NEVER you!

#235
Ama trully sahib.

I bet YOU have not lifted a finger yourself – to make sure that no Mukhtaran Mais occur again. Have you?!! How very comfy of you.

Whether you call Yasser a Muslim or not is immaterial, at least he lives actually where he intends to try to make a difference (faulty methods and some falsity and all that notwithstanding). Individuals such as you, on the other hand, park your rears in foreign lands and stoke the fires of hatred from afar while yourself being cushy under the protection of the laws of those other lands.

Those other lands that put bread in your plate.

That give milk and honey to your children.

That give you everything in life that you consider worth living for – why you are there in the first place!

Those very other lands which you wish to harm by imposing your “Dar ul Islam” all over again – so life could become just like it used to be…

Back home!

Re: # 200

Mr. abcd

``Why don`t you list the accusations which are wrong? ``

Let me explain with an example how, when an ``accusation``, is even right it becomes wrong.

Consider the part of Mahabharat that deals with the story of Krishna Ji Maharj, Arjun, and Krishan`s sister Subudhra. Subudhra was originally planned to be married to one of the Kurus sons but when hostilities between Kurus and Pandwas (Krishan being a Pandwa), become more pronounced, Krishan became against marrying his sister into Kurus family. In order to cancel this marriage he staged a drama in concert with his cousin Arjun and asked the later to stage a kidnapping of his sister. That is what Arjun did while Subudhra knowing very well what was going on. Krishna then laid blame upon savage tribals of kidnapping his sister in order to divert attention from Arjun et al. Arjun and subhudra later fell in love with each other and got married.

Now I do not see any problem with this part of Mahabharat. As the events turned out later, it proved that Kridhna`s actions were correct. But the problem arises in the way we chose to describe this story.

If I am a writer of this story I have many options in ways to describe this story. There is one way I can chose to portray lord Krishan as great statesman who very intelligently thwarted the marriage of his sister into enemy household. I can prove that he was the greatest feminist ever who stood up for the liking of his sister and did what he did for her betterment. I can even make a hero out of all three chracters if I want to.

But then there is another way to write the story as well. I can use the same facts and prove that Krishna was nothing but coniving, deceiving, (epithet) who lowered himself to the level where he would kidnap his own sister. This story becomes extremely juicy when the fact that Arjun and Subudhra were cousins, is injected into the story. As a writer it is very well in my power to use the same facts and write a pornographic story about the two as well. As a matter of fact there is no limit how far one can lower himself if one wants to.

So Mr. abcd it is very well your choice whether you want to lower your self or uplift yourself with the ``accusations``. The famous hadith says ``our intentions are the precursors of our actions``.

Zeemax

I believe that for every ``worm``, as you put it, there are at least 10 ears who want to listen to what we have to say. Our job is not to put anyone in his place, instead our mission is to convey the message and perform our duty that we are charged with. When we lower ourselves down to their level, those who originally wanted to hear what we have to say, get idea that we are no different than them. We lose our credibility. So I beg you once more to focus on winning this war that has been imposed on us, Muslims, and ignore the distractions.

I intend to win this war, and I cannot do it without your help.

#232 by bjkumar

.. what has the ISLAMIC SOCIETY been doing since the episode to ensure that such episodes will not recur?

BJ ... this question bleeds people like me. Because we are guilty of this. Yes we have done nothibg, and our rulers continue to do nothing.

The answer to that is democracy needs votes ... and the votes are with the tribals and the feudals ... so nothing.

The entire democratic system has to be dismantled and replaced with an Islamic system. Then there would be no more Mai Mukhtarans weeping for injustices.