Knowing Kashmir, Officially

Re: # 13

Beejay,

Ur post make some sense to me now:)

This passage cant be more applicable:

>>>>>these turkeys are poisoned with the same mindset that Jinnah injected across the borders – the fatal disease of making a distinction between Hindus and Muslims and the viewpoint that being one of the latter must be considered above all other considerations! <<<<<<

For ur info, I visited Kashmir (1999) and many ordinary Muslims had feelings or/and relatives for/among Pandits. You know that they share common Pandit surnames (like Bhat etc,)?? I heard of one reporter whose name was Salim Pandit..sounds crazy, another Haq Nawaaz Nehru. What`s surprise that they have relatives among unconverted Hindu pandits?

Hope u spare Kashmiris from ur sarcasm. Some are too bad but many of them are very good and sober....Even Wavell wrote good abt them...abt their sober nature. It was the people west of Jammu who are truculent (his wors) denoting west Punjabi Muslims.

Musharraf share his blood with fellow Mohajirs not with Kashmiris. That dickhead had a name that` not Islamic but ehtnic Persian. Pervez and Musharraf are nothing to do with Islam, they are Persian names.

Lets hope for the best.

#12 VRV

Yaar, I have no expertise on J&K – I have never been there – I don’t know anybody from there, nor do I wish to. What I write here comes from a simple person seeing things as they are.

Based on everything that has been going on there, it looks like these morons (Kashmiris) have never been worth the trouble – neither for India, nor for the Paapistanis!

Like Jinnah, the Kashmiri leaders will keep holding that sword of insurgency forever – in order to grab whatever concession happens to suit their whims on a particular day.

You are trying to make a distinction between the general jokers and the “politicos/insurgents”. I don’t think there is such a distinction. You think the latter drop out of sky there? Get real.

How many of the Kashmiri Muslims are seen shedding tears over the loss of Hindus from among their midst? How many? If these people really had no sympathy for the killers, would there be so many killings? What is the matter with them – are they like sheep when it comes to the killer Jihadis (following their dictates, wearing that chador, elongating those beards, and all sorts of other crap) and then start roaring like a tiger when they are outside – except then they roar against the Indians.

They talk of “freedom” – while ignoring the obvious fact that India is a democracy and the Pakistanis have never been – and shall never be!

Such hypocrites!

They don’t even have the guts to admit their malady!

Face it – these turkeys are poisoned with the same mindset that Jinnah injected across the borders – the fatal disease of making a distinction between Hindus and Muslims and the viewpoint that being one of the latter must be considered above all other considerations!

Frankly speaking, the economic problems of poor Biharis are as bad or worse than those of these morons’ – but unlike these basstards, the Biharis are unable to throw in this “religion” card at every step, like the Kashmiris do.

They remind me of a prostitute baiting two johns against each other, turning her ass seductively toward each – one john at a time! And the “little” Paapistanis have their green hormones racing and will NEVER stop trying to hump her.

Like the Mushy said - it is in their “blood”, you see!

Everywhere I have seen a Muslim Kashmiri, they have identified themselves either with Paapistanis or as independent birds. Perhaps you know the other kind!

I am sorry if my observations fail to float your boat – but they are what they are.

Re: # 10

Ama yaar Beejay,

I didn’t expect that kind of reply from u, really.

We need to de-link the civilians and politicians+separatists. Civilians are kind of neutral or at worst the people who seek total independence. It`s our job to win the hearts of neutral people. How can we blame the voiceless civilians? If u know Gujjars of Kashmir, they say that Kashmir`s accession to India is non-negotiable. Secondly, see the people who live very close to Pak border in Rajasthan and Gujarat (since Punjab is an exception). Inspite of being very very close to Pakistan (as close as 10-20 kms), many Muslims didn`t migrate to Pakistan. That means the ordinary Muslims didn`t believe in TNT. Similarly many ordinary Kashmiris wudn`t bother abt India and Pakistan as long there is peace. This TNT was a humbug, btw.

Like it happened in the case of Muslim League, the separatists in Kashmir wanted total polarisation of Hindus and Muslims. If we support those forces then we are playing into their hands. My idea of Kashmir and Kashmiris is a way of approach. Given the threat of gun at the heads of the people, how can we expect them to raise their voice and be not targeted?

My main point is that more we ignore the people as our own, more the damage we cause to the people of Kashmir and India in general.

Re: # 10

Ama yaar Beejay,

I didn’t expect that kind of reply from u, really.

We need to de-link the civilians and politicians+separatists. Civilians are kind of neutral or at worst the people who seek total independence. It`s our job to win the hearts of neutral people. How can we blame the voiceless civilians? If u know Gujjars of Kashmir, they say that Kashmir`s accession to India is non-negotiable. Secondly, see the people who live very close to Pak border in Rajasthan and Gujarat (since Punjab is an exception). Inspite of being very very close to Pakistan (as close as 10-20 kms), many Muslims didn`t migrate to Pakistan. That means the ordinary Muslims didn`t believe in TNT. Similarly many ordinary Kashmiris wudn`t bother abt India and Pakistan as long there is peace. This TNT was a humbug, btw.

Like it happened in the case of Muslim League, the separatists in Kashmir wanted total polarisation of Hindus and Muslims. If we support those forces then we are playing into their hands. My idea of Kashmir and Kashmiris is a way of approach. Given the threat of gun at the heads of the people, how can we expect them to raise their voice and be not targeted?

My main point is that more we ignore the people as our own, more the damage we cause to the people of Kashmir and India in general.

#9 VRV

[People in India should stop thinking that Kashmir is ours but Kashmiris are ours. I hope u get my point.]

Actually, I don’t.

If the Kashmiris are “ours”, they should fight FOR us, and appreciate the security forces – not start whining about it every chance they get – while mummifying their lips on the role of the Paapistanis.

If those people are merely Muslim bigots – putting on the airs of “seculars” (which appears to be the case, as we see them driving out all their Hindus, which definitely weakens the secular fabric of the country) why should ANY Indian care for these morons. Let them eat the cake of their own making.

Not every politician has the guts, but it is possible to keep regions in line for practically forever. There are countless historical examples.

The very unfortunate reality is that the issue of Kashmir has dome more than anything else to elevate religious bigotry to an all-time high. Let the morons keep it up and it won’t be long before we have our own Bugtis lining the sidewalks and looking VERY horizontal!

Re: # 8

Ama Yaar BJ :-),

The prob of Kashmir is very complex. I had an occasion to talk to some of the annual protestors at India House, London on 15th Aug 2005.

Contrary to what people of Kashmir make us believe, the protestors - if they constitute the voice of the Kashmiri awam - had concerns abt the India`s control over Kashmir but not abt the Kashmir under Pakistan and China. There are no protests in front of Pak or Chinese offices. So there’s hypocrisy of the votaries of Kashmir independence. Moreover they never include China which was in fact one of the occupants of north-eastern Kashmir. We in India and Pakistan never drag them into this, nor the Kashmiris talk abt it. Pakistan has no interest in the part of Kashmir that was under the control of China. Even PoK website doesn’t show that north-eastern part. In effect they harp abt the valley and of late the Jammu under our control.

We in India are brought up thinking abt the double-hump of Kashmir but the eastern halve was not under us, nor it ever was going to come under us. Then, why this hypocrisy on our part and showing the whole of Kashmir as part of India? Infact this gives us shock when we go outside of India? I think there was an unwritten trade-off between India and China on this. North-eastern Kashmir is gone forever for both India and Pakistan.

As for PoK, that’s not going to be part of India again. India therefore shud try to forget and be real on Kashmir - if not for PoK in our maps but at least on North-eastern Kashmir.

Terrorism as a means of blackmail by Pakistan has not been working without the chance of India giving Pakistan chances to dot the `i`s and cross the `t`s.

We can keep our part of Kashmir by force by how long and how long can we see our Kashmiri brethren suffer the crossfire of the armed forces and terrorists? It`s more of anguish than an indictment of the professional soldiers of India. Hurriyat was being treated with kid-gloves in India whereas Pakistan hunts separatists like they did in the case of Bugti! How long can we let these Hurriyat loonies inflame Kashmiris?

I asked Mufti (Firing Line in Indian Express) long back, in order to know his mind. I gave 5-6 solutions. He didn’t believe in such talk nor he has any formula in mind for Kashmir. Most of the leaders don’t know which way to go (at least officially).

People in India shud stop thinking that Kashmir is ours but Kashmiris are ours. I hope u get my point.

Choudhary sahib,

Consider forwarding a copy of this web article to the webmaster of the problem site. Hopefully, they should be able to address your concerns.

However, the real problem with J&K is not the face presented by its official web-sites to the world, rather the news of atrocities committed by the Jihadis in the name of their religion - those news items would drive away one thousand tourists for every one tourist/investor that the web site could hope to entice.

And the ``web masters`` for those atrocities sit across the border and are not likely to listen to reason!

They only listen to force - for only force makes them quake and do U-turns, like a dancing monkey.

Mr Choudhary;

whats the big deal? It shows your poor judgement to write on this matter on chowk. Frankly you wasted time and irritated countless people for whom Kashmir is a little more than your meaningless observations on officialy maintained web site. The title of your essay is misleading.

Government websites are subjected to such maltreatment.

A paltry sum on monthly basis, this duty can be vehemently performed by school buddings with the promise of recognition. All what is wanted is training on basic HTML.

But somebody again is needed to visit some school.

I think these descripencies should be taken up with the J&K Government more than they are discussed here at chowk.com.

Re: # 3

Nasah,

Thanks:)

``The bickering between Indian and Pakistan had limited Kashmir to a mere Buzkashi game.``(VRV)

that`s a great sentence VRV -- very smart...!

off the tangent..but i was pleasantly surprised to read a report from a hi-tech market-research firms based in budgam J&K

http://www.ilocus.com/

Mr. Choudhary,

It`s no different in other states. I found the website of Azad Kashmir to be more romantic than Indian Kashmir.

I expected a paradigm change in the administration of J&K after Azad took over but I am sorry say that it hasn`t.

As they say, face is the index of our mind. Our websites are the index our marketability, more so in the case of Kashmir.

Kashmir has no reason to be backward. It`s not backward during British (Wavell admitted this in his official correspondence to his masters in London) nor it`s now by Indian standards but it can make a lot of diff in horticulture and brewery sectors. Kashmir can have its own brand of apples, peaches and strawberries and what not in the intl markets? Rural Kashmiris shud be given the opportunities to grow these fruit and market them in other states of India and abroad. That wud change the current state of Kashmir`s economy beyond recognition. The Kashmir’s fixation with the carpet market shud make way for the new age economic activities like horticulture and breweries with a distinct image of Kashmir brands in the international markets.

I told my PT employer in UK, an Indian Kashmiri to think beyond carpet business. He just smiled. He had no big ambitions but Kashmir govt shud think out of box and see the big opportunities for Kashmir in the intl markets.

Take the case of ciders. Kashmir can make and market its own brands in the Intl markets. There are millions of buyers for those products. There`s a lack of imagination and initiative on the part of Azad Govt.

The bickering between Indian and Pakistan had limited Kashmir to a mere Buzkashi game.

Hope they improve J& K govt`s website now.