9/11: DOB of Islamophobia

#53 Raaneejee (to Salim)
[…a wee bit jealous of your abilities]

Who says a WEE bit! I am burning mad with jealousy! In fact, the next time I see him I might even beat him up! Shouldn’t he be doing something else – like diaper changing or something?!!

#63 by kaalchakra (to Haider)
[You need to defend your view so others have any reason to believe you.]

Yes, of course. But why is it that somehow I get reminded of Hamidm2’s exhortation of “Shabash jawan!” to Manto?!!

#49 Salim - I read your post, and agree with most of it. I would add that one should not stop at noting the hate for muslims from extremists of other religions (i.e. the Pat Robertsons). One should also note:

1. The fear and/or disgust of muslims created among ordinary people across the world. This gives a bad name to all muslims and to Islam.

2. This fear and disgust then translates into ``hidden costs`` in the form of reduced possibilities for emigration to the west, reduced possibilities employment outside their country and even within their country (due to reduced foreign investment). While arabs and persians (who have much higher per capita incomes than pakistanis) may not suffer so much, it is Pakistanis who end up paying these ``hidden costs``. And these ``hidden costs`` have already been paid by hundreds of thousands of Pakistanis no doubt who could have made a life for themselves in the west and now can only sit and hope for foreign embassies to give them visas, or employers to give them jobs.

As for the palestinians for whose ``rights`` the UK bombers brought a bad name to all Pakistanis and to Islam itself and for whose precious ``rights`` Pakistanis are ready to start fighting over - as and when a Palestinian State is formed, is there any reason to think they will treat Pakistani immigrants any better than the second class citizens that they are in other arab countries? I dont think so.

#64 by masadi

Allow me to reproduce the last six paras of that immortal article e-mailed to me today by .... surprise ... a very close & dear ATHEIST friend who actually thought Islam was a HOAX before Lebanon!!!! Only thing is I didn`t have to read it. I know. Though he has only just found out. Well ... better late than never.

A month ago another war was raging in Lebanon. On August 4 a Pakistani columnist wrote a piece in an English language paper of that country. The last six paragraphs of his article are particularly notable ... I can personally relate to them.

Unintended consequences

Personally I find myself in a strange position. I am as secular in my thinking, if not more than most other people. I was born a Muslim but as is not uncommon in any religion, I count myself among those who have never been very particular about observing the rituals of the faith. Indeed, some of my personal habits are such as not to accord with anyone’s definition of correct Muslim behaviour. I also don’t like the intrusion of religion into politics and find the average maulvi’s ready stock of pomposity and hypocrisy amusing.

My secularism, however, collides with an unpleasant reality: the picture of the Islamic world in thrall to American power, Muslim elites dancing to America’s tune, Muslim countries little better than satellites orbiting around the US. I see this in my own country where there is too much American influence, much of it of the wrong kind. If the Muslim world is to progress, this bondage has to be broken.

Even democracy won’t come to the Muslim world unless this influence is overthrown. It’s one of the biggest myths of our time that America wants democracy to flourish in the lands of Islam. How can it when democracy doesn’t suit its interests? If we have popular governments in Muslim countries the first thing they will demand is an end to American hegemony.

The Americans were happy with the Shah, they can’t abide democratic Iran. They can’t abide Hamas which is the elected representative of the Palestinian people. They can’t abide Hezbollah which has a representative status in Lebanese politics. Democracy in the Muslim world and the interests of American foreign policy just do not mix. That is why any kind of popular movement in the Muslim world finds itself on a collision course with US interests.

Now if we take it as correct that American domination of the Islamic world is not a good thing and deserves to be resisted, it becomes hard for so-called secularists like myself to close their eyes to the uncomfortable fact that the only forces resisting this domination, often successfully, are those which, in some form or the other, draw their inspiration from Islam.

Savour then the irony of it. The “war on terror” was meant to fight and contain radical Islam. Instead, the Bush administration has turned out to be its biggest supporter, through its arrogance, lies and blind support of Israel giving radical Islam an impetus it could never have hoped to achieve on its own.

The swift Muslim response to the stupid Pope`s ill-fated quote of an obscure 14th century Byzantine was both justified and effective. People who go out of their way to insult, injure, or instigate others need to be put in their proper place - facing the corner in silence with a dunce hat on their empty head.

Similarly, people who go out of their way to hurt, harm, or murder others need to be put in their proper place - facing the earth below with tons of dirt on their posteriors. The Muslim response to AlKayda`s murderous terrorism needs to be swifter, more vocal, more universal, and more effective. These evil jihadists have perpetrated more harm on Islam and Muslims than the Bavarian Papa. It is time we put them out of commission and deny them their sanctuaries among our people, our lands, our cities, our mosques, and our caves.

Hamidum #59 {``salim mian, ........... that was one heck of a good post !........ shabash, naujawan !......... now if you can get mad masadi to read it we might solve this terrible terrorist problem by the end of the day ................``}

Hamidum Sahib,
Thank you for reading my long but sincere post. It appears from #64 that Masadi Sahib has read your post. I don`t know about the end of the day, but we need to solve this terrible terrorist problem before it turns into the end of all our days. :)

Hamidm writes <<< now if you can get mad masadi to read it we might solve this terrible terrorist problem by the end of the day ................ >>>


Haider, see this is what I mean, here hamidm, out of the blue, totally unrelated to anything lets out a brain fart accusing me of being a ``terrorist``, and not only that the source of the terrorist problem, this is the mentality that a person who tries to reason confronts here day in and day out and at times patience runs out and you have to tell these damn fools what they really are.

haidar5

Unless one`s mistaken, you have now twice made this statement about Islamic Jihadis fighting their personal battles, not being good and true Muslims etc. And twice you have been challenged on it by Zeemax.

You need to defend your view so others have any reason to believe you.

Haider Bhai,

Allow me to keep the following handy for your ready reference.

Thank you sir. Eagerly awaiting your kind response in anticipation.

Your humble servant..

#43 by zeemax on September 18, 2006 6:44am PT
#38 by haider5

First, accept my heart felt congratulations for winning accolades from islamophobic_macacas.

Next, I have noted your assertion as follows:

and try not to use the term jihad for those people who are fighting their own personal wars.

I had posted the following list on another board. Kindly help me in adentifying which one/s is/are fighting for personal interest so I may immediately cease/desist from supporting them:

1) Hamas:

2) Hazballah:

3) Chechen:

4) Taliban:

5) Somalia Islamic Courts:

6) Bin Laden:

7) Muslim Brotherhood:

8) Jaish Muhammad:

9) Lashkar-e-Tayyaba:

10) Jamaa-e-Islamya (Far-East):

Thanks in advance.

#57 by queen_cut&paste

Hmmm ... so you`re in the habit of eating unidentified strange creatures in the trees ....

haider <<< hope being muslims we should make other understand the real spirit of our objective leaving behind the things they say about us >>>

You are correct, patience is a great virtue but often when you`ve tried to reason with these people long enough, it tends to run out, especially when they try to mislead others using their perverse tactics. My criticism is of their argumentation methodology and not their person, they on the other hand tend to dismiss any and every rational argumentation by unrelated association and value laden labels, like he did with Polpot or with labels like Mullah or communist etc.

Re: # 49

salim mian,

........... that was one heck of a good post !........ shabash, naujawan !......... now if you can get mad masadi to read it we might solve this terrible terrorist problem by the end of the day ................

Author:

``My sister ..... decided not to take them with her to the US. And we too advised her not to carry the frame, the CD or the box of sweets. Simply because ......``

If the matter was so simple, why write about it? If the matter isn`t so simple why did your sister not have the guts to fight for her right to carry the Koran into the US? How important was the Koran to her? For how long will we blame others? Why don`t we fight those battles that we know we are capable of fighting?

#56 I have just seen you in the trees. No worries my people will get you down in preparation for their weekly feast!

macaca_queen of johannesberg ....

Looks like your neighborhood is influencing you ... keep away from those macaca infested trees ...

#48 by bjkumar

BJ,

Your macaca rating has just been enhanced from 10% to 25% ..... you`re getting there ... keep trying ...

I forgot it should be
Salim Jang Veer Bahadur Chauhan Pasha-e-Pashmina et al

you need toforgive me for the forgetfulness by the time I finished one end I forgot what the starting was.

Oh Congratulations on the birth of your Daughter! Hope you are looking after her!