Revolt in Paradise

Re: # 132


Yes Chevez the Venuzvalian has earlier .... said...
This Bush thing is Fit for a Trial in the international court of Justice ...for WAR CRIMES...... and CRIMES Against Humanity.....!!

But the question is: Could the US have carried out this threat?

In my opinion probably not. Only attacks could have been with cruise missiles or ICBMs with conventional warheads, not active air campaigns because of Pak`s solid air-defences. How much damage would that have done? And at what cost to USA?

#132 by masadi

Masadi, armitage has denied he said that. He says all he said was ``Either you`re with us or against us``. Maybe be it was still a further underling who laid out the details.

My real beef with mush over this is that at-least he should have told armitage to ask his boss to call him. He didn`t even do that ... just complied.

In #113 I had noted based on what 110 had written, {{{ #110 writes << ...even the MUSHY..... has spilled the beans ......( an open secret ) on how...
Armatige or whatever.... threatened to Flat out Pakistan .... >>>>

Nothing new in this assertion, listen to the speech he gave to ``the nation`` shortly after 9/11 when America had given him a list of demands, he mentioned the national existence being threatened, you just have to listen more carefully }}}

In addition to this I would like to bring to your attention that only the most barbaric and perverse people on earth, possibly in its entire history can threaten the lives and well being of a nation of 162 million in such an off hand manner and that also not as the ultimate end but as a by-the-way endeavour in order to get to destroy another 30 million in Afghanistan and send them ``back to the stone age``.

Like I have said before multiple times these US elite are barbarians, they do not recognize the vast majority of people on earth as ``humans``- it is very easy for them to make pronouncements like `` get ready to be bombed ``. To them you are not human, burn this in your mind regardless of the rhetoric of peons like tahmed, they will not refrain from killing you or your kids and grandkids if they interfere with their own objectives. Then they call themselves ``civilization``. They are worse than the mongols, the most perverse barbarians the world has seen, they have a whole history of carnage behind them and proposed barbarism in front of them, and then they have the audacity to say terrorism and talk hypocritically about Darfur.

This episode should also tell future generations in Pakistan the true nature of their ``sovereignty`` which is non existant. If by some happy turn of events someone with my pov happened to be in the command in Pakistan the reply would have been quite different. Armitage would return home several pounds lighter and much politer, no torture however would be practiced maybe waterboarding, information on proposed bombings of 162 million needs to be extracted, does it not? Damn hypocrites.

#129 by Urstruly

Yes. A couple of years ago the pre-eminent orthopaedic surgeon of Lahore who was running a charity hospital as well as physio of the Pak cricket team, was picked up just because he had visited Afghanistan after Oct 2001 to fix broken bones and help amputees. He was kept incognito by FBI types and only let go because there were protests in the street and lots of bad press. Most we do not even hear about.

#126 I am sorry but you are being irrational here - 100% maulvis do not need to be evil in order for you to condemn those evil actions done under the cover of Islam that I listed. As for my being similarly selective as you - that is not true. If I see a maulvi doing something right, I have noted that on chowk as well - e.g., I noted on chowk that the case of mukhtaran mai was brought to light because the village maulvi spoke out about it during friday prayers. And on several occasions I have noted Sattar Edhi (not a maulvi, but obviously a pious muslim) as being one of the true Pakistani VIPs.

And all this despite my opposition to any professional priesthood or politicians seeking to advance their careers by posing as religious leaders as being a violation of the Quran.

So, if you were waiting for me to be be fair - I already am. Simply blowing the horn of some ideology or some group fools no one.

Zeemax

For some starnge reason this human rights org is only mentioning the kidnapping of 2000 people and most of them technocrats, scientis, businessmen and engineers etc. Whereas according to a report by HRC in Paksitan a couple of years ago, there are somewhere between 6000 to 16000 Paksiatni citizens missing. A good number of them are religious scholars and Imams. As a matter of a Mehmood Shaam, the Editor of Jang Newspaper wrote an editorial sometime ago tiltled ``Where is my neighborhood mosque`s Imam??``. He also mentioned a figure somewhere in between 6000. A couple of weeks ago Chowk censored one my post, a column by Munnu Bhai, who also reported an alarming rate of kidnapping of citizens of Pakistan by Na Pak fauj.

#126 by Urstruly

Why do you always fall prey to these domesticated_macacas? Don`t you know they always pull out false dilemmas to divert from a valid subject to another subject of their choice? This has been successfully done in this instance.

Yes. Pak regime has kidnapped and handed-over hundreds to the Americans without following any procedures whatsoever.. Remember Aimal Kansi? In that case at-least there was a US indictment; in these cases there`re not even any evidences handed over. They just pick them up and send them over.

#122 by haider5

Pls. Check the other board. I replied there. Thks.

Re: # 125

The very day you will prove that 100% of moulvis are rotten eggs, I will condemn NaPak moulvis. And if you say that not 100% of moulvis are bad and some are good then you need to qualify the term with phrases like ``those moulvis who incite violence aganist shais``, or ``those moulvis who misguide people from the righteous path of Allah and Mohammad(pbuh)``. But since this does not fit into your agenda, you will never qualify your ``condemning``; and since you wont do that, I will also remain selcetive in condemning those mullahs who are collaborators to those who oppress us.

#123 Usrtruly: That is bad indeed.

However, you would credible if you were not so selective in your condemnations. Or gave praise where praise was due.

How come for example you never speak out against the napaak maulvis in Pakistan who have targetted and killed scores of shia doctors in Karachi? or attacked masjids and killed those saying namaz? or called for hadood laws which allow ghoondas to prey upon the weakest members of Pakistani society - women from poor families?

#123 That is bad indeed.

However, you would credible if you also spoke out against the napaak maulvis in Pakistan who have targetted and killed scores of shia doctors in Karachi? or attacked masjids and killed those saying namaz? or called for hadood laws which allow ghoondas to prey upon the weakest members of Pakistani society - women from poor families?

DISAPPEARNACES IN PAKISTAN

Why these news dont make it to English language media in Pakistan (allegedly a free media):

According to the news report below, reporting a protest by an indegenous Pakistani human rights organization and the relatives of kidnapped people, since 2004, Na Pak intelligence agencies have kidnapped over 2000 Pakistanis - including Engineers, doctors, businessmen, and technicians. THese Pakistanis citizens are rotting in American dungeons and torture cells with no information to their families for the past several years.

if zeemax is here plz read this

zeemax

{I`m not sure whether 9/11 was carried out by Muslims; but even if it had been, their answer would be :If you kill our women and children, we will kill your women and children.}

i am really grateful that you have proved me right at very outset of your post.

i wrote once:

``wherever it is carried out to satisfy ones own ego it is not jihad, its personal war so its a very sacred word for us and the thinline between jihad and personal war needs to be understood. and the jihadis you talk about are fighting their personal wars to satisfy their egos so they cannot be called jihadi in any sense``

and you wrote:

``if you kill our women and children, we will kill your women and children``

SO:

where is jihad?
where is islam?
where is God?

here i am quite comfortable to say under the light of your notion that this is revenge, personal war, ego. BUT NOT JIHAD.

hope you will come up with some reference of Hadith or quran to prove claiming Jihad in this situation as obligatory.(if you kill our women and children, we will kill your women and children)

beleive me or not i wish you could come up with some solid reasoning based on islamic sharia to prove your notion right and your objective should be to make the Liberaloons/Moderatoon like me to accept your school of thought. and plz prevent beating the bush.

you once said that haider is badly confused to urstruly. i started thinking at that time that i might be wrong. but i tried to adopt the way to question you to know your point of view where you feel i am worng. but when i asked about the jihad you said it is all written in the sura baqara and didnot tell me a single extra word and started tagging me with different names, which i was not expecting. beleive me i wanted to be corrected. but now i feel that your objectives are different perhaps you are trying to defend your ownselves not islam. you come up with the auguments to prove yourself right against bjkumar and the party. but you never tried to prove the teachings of islam logical and right. and there is hell of difference.

here let me tell you your mail contains lots of confusions. which can be pointed out easily.
for example you tried to prove your notion by giving the example of hiroshima`s nuclear bombing giving it the shape of hypothesis. which is totally wrong because they would have never said it Jihad simply because they are not muslim. wish you had quoted some example from Islamic world.

There are many more. Will elaborate in next mails. come to point.

thanks
haider

#119 SR ji
This is dignity and self respect. Kudos to you.
Regards

US muslims show other muslims the right path....

Today`s Washington Post: Muslims Raise Funds For Catholic Churches

Excerpt:

Though Palestinian Muslims have reacted violently to recent remarks by Pope Benedict XVI, Muslims in the United States are raising money to help rebuild churches damaged in the protests and met with a Vatican envoy to call for more interfaith dialogue.

In Tampa, a branch of the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations gave $5,000 to help repair the churches in the West Bank and Gaza. Council officials said it was the first gift in a national fundraising campaign. CAIR has criticized the pope`s Sept. 12 speech at Regensburg University in Germany, but it has also condemned the violent protests.

In Washington, representatives of CAIR, the Islamic Society of North America and the Falls Church-based Dar al-Hiijra Islamic Center met for two hours with Archbishop Pietro Sambi, the papal nuncio, as the Vatican ambassador is called. The InterFaith Conference of Metropolitan Washington arranged the meeting.

``We want to build on the legacy of John Paul II and use this opportunity to encourage dialogue and not divisiveness,`` said Arsalan Iftikhar, CAIR`s legal director.