Revolt in Paradise

dot #38 This man whose picture you included is cut from the same cloth as our pakistani paindoos who stand humbly in line to get visas to the west, and once secure in their residency or citizenship status, start to spit on it.

Glad you agreed on the (admittedly somewhat oversimplified) linkage of Iqbal (and indian muslims) with the Romantic Hero and of Sir Syed (and indian muslims) with the Age of Reason. These damed romantic heroes of the muslim world keep too many muslims living in a dream world, while the rest of the world is moving forward to become increasingly progressive in terms of not merely military technology and easy welath, but in terms of economic growth and political progress.

aslam #52 I think the crusades had only a marginal influence on muslim society - the europeans back then were economically and technologically were basically at par with muslims, and their conquests were limited to jerusalem and the ``crusader kingdoms`` that did stretch along the eastern mediterranean coast (levant) and inland to current day syria. The mongols (whose vassal tribe the ottomans started of as) had a more lasting impact i think, in terms of firmly establishing kingships (and the associated sharia laws). The real rot in muslim societies was internal, however. This rot being the result of the perpetuation of kingships (khalifas).

The damage done by these kingships I think was in keeping the Age of Reason, along with other ``dangerous`` western influences notably the questioning of the ``Divine Right of Kings`` that dawned on europe from spreading into the muslim world. Only after getting routinely clobbered by the ever-strengthening europeans (starting with the defeat in the Austro-Ottoman war of the late 17th century) did the ottomans start making some moves in trying to catch up - but picked on the low-hanging fruits of western civilization only - namely military technology.

This preoccupation with picking on this low-hanging fruit - military technology - while remaining contemptuous of the soil provided by the Age of Reason, remains to this day the curse of muslim societies.

#61 by hasanmahmood

[it is NOT pappistani - it is Pakistani just like it is not fir but phir. What are you - a hindu!!!!!!]

Omigosh, you actually noticed the subtle difference! What are you – a Paapistani???

Urstruly:54

The whole world is applauding.

Chavez is another darling of the world. The United Satans--this was my coinage--is being zaleeled right and left everywhere.

InshaAllah we the collapse would come sooner than even anticipated.

Ahmediejad--Zindabaad
Hugo Chavez Zindabaad
Fidel Castro--Zinda-O-Paindabaad.

Lakhh LaanUt on the United-Satan; Aaaakhhhhh Thhhooooooooooo!

#58 the cheapdo, mullahashishi, Jamaat-e-chowk-ibn-al-qaeda Amir Shreik Zeemax is going bonkers. Will the members of the Jamaat-e-chowk please return it back to him.

What now?

Just wondering ... all these macacas keep harping upon darfur ... and the darfur board is empty. Why?

Re: # 58

Precisely because darfur board is empty... macacas need some pakis to kick around... no pakis, no board....

#51 by bjkumar

. ,****,
.((@..@))
.. ``(--)``

Have you dropped your demand of introductions from Mr. Macaca? Now you`re appeasing him.

GT in #45 <<< I were to assume that Ford, IBM and other US businesses with interest in Germany were but a face of the US govt. (as per your power elite theory), then the US govt. did indeed support Hitler. >>>

Actually the model that sees political as a committee of the big corporations, has nothing to do with `power elite` model, it has more to do with the classical Marxist point of view which in the classical Victorian era was quite accurate. Crisis, particularly the great depression and the ensuing New Deal forced them to make adjustments within that hierarchy of institutions, that is the Power Elite Model. The Power Elite model refers more to the world emerging after WW2 though its context can be found in that war. I think we have discussed that model long enough on Chowk for you to view it in past posts rather than a new discussion on the pluralism vs power elite model being necessary. Here is an article in case you missed reading it when I provided the link before. You can disagree with me if you want but there are no other competing models whatsoever that fit in with the facts post WW2.

THE FALSE DEMOCRACY OF ELITES


Bush Is A Devil, Chavez Says, Echoing Some in US
By Susan Jones
CNSNews.com Senior Editor
September 20, 2006

(CNSNews.com) - The United Nations building still stinks of sulphur, after the ``devil`` -- President George W. Bush -- addressed the General Assembly, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez told the world on Wednesday.

Chavez` speech to the General Assembly -- a personal attack on President Bush -- was greeted with sustained applause from the United Nations` member states.

Chavez, after calling Bush a devil, said he thinks Bush needs a psychiatrist.

The Bush-hatred spewing from Chavez sounded familiar, given the fact that some Americans espouse the same beliefs, as their free-speech rights entitle them to do.

Personal attacks on Bush are daily fare on various liberal blogs and Air America talk radio, where Bush is routinely blasted as stupid, incompetent, power-hungry, crazy, and extremist.

Chavez accused Bush the ``dictator`` of trying to consolidate his grip on world domination. He said Bush wants to impose ``the false democracy of elites`` on the world. And he accused Bush of racism, saying that he paints people of color -- such as the new Bolivian president -- as extremists.

The imperialists see extremists everywhere, Chavez said. ``It`s not that we are extremists,`` he added -- it`s that the world is ``waking up -- and rising up against the empire, against the model of domination.``

Chavez made it clear that he was talking about Bush the ``imperialist,`` not the American people.

As Cybercast News Service has previously reported, Chavez -- who is friendly with some of America`s worst foes (Iran, North Korea and Cuba) -- is lobbying for a seat on the U.N. Security Council.

#36 by tahmed32 on September 20, 2006 6:07am PT
according to some historians islamic world was going through enlightenment (age of reason)
date wine was halal in baghdad in spain prayers were said in berber language etc.
the crusades and mongol invasion put a stop to that, what happens when a civilisation is under attack it turns inward, that`s exactly what happened to islamic civilisation.

#49

Dear Dick,

I must agree with you on what you said about the poet Iqbal.

Anybody who takes the poet Iqbal seriously ought to have his or her head examined by the Sohail – probably at highly discounted rates because of the large number of visits required.

Except for the saving grace for Iqbal that he may have been a poet. And NOBODY takes poets seriously.

Nobody in their right mind, that is!

Of course, with my Paapistani brothers and sisters, that is always an open question.

Re: # 51
it is NOT pappistani - it is Pakistani just like it is not fir but phir. What are you - a hindu!!!!!!

Re: # 61
[...it is NOT pappistani -it is Pakistani...]

It`s not even ``Pakistani``, it`s actually ``Bakistani``... that`s the way your bedouin masters pronounce it... so you wannabe-bedouins might as well speak the same way.. and also it fits better... :)

Re: # 63
lol - so now we are ``wannabe-bedouins``. Dont you think it is better than to suck gora ``you know what``. But I guess you guys are used to it. I guess you always want another race to look after you. first it was the muslims, than the British and now Bush. Can`t you ever do anything yourself except make your mothers and sisters dance - lol

Interseting question BJ #40,

“There will be no significant material and economic progress [in Muslim communities] until the Muslim mind is allowed to challenge the status quo of Muslim conventions and even their most cherished shibboleths.”

Why do the Muslims of the world - ``educated`` or otherwise, get so uptight at the above - obviously true statements? Why, why, why???

The answer is that the assumption preceding the question is not only not `obviously true`, but completely FALSE.

That is why Mohathir Mohamad says that the only reason Muslims are backward is because they left the teachings of Quran. Of-course, he says a lot of other things as well like bringing about the decline & fall of USA.

Or don`t you think Mohathir, who practically built Malaysia single-handedly from a lazy colonial backwater to the powerhouse it is today, knows a thing or two?

About Gillster and his friends, they need to read more Iqbal.