Revolt in Paradise

#110 writes << ...even the MUSHY..... has spilled the beans ......( an open secret ) on how...
Armatige or whatever.... threatened to Flat out Pakistan .... >>>>

Nothing new in this assertion, listen to the speech he gave to ``the nation`` shortly after 9/11 when America had given him a list of demands, he mentioned the national existence being threatened, you just have to listen more carefully

In addition to #112, this pope is following in the traditon of John Paul, at that time he was a strong supporter of the US in its anti-communist fight, now the enemy is different and so is the rhetoric. John Paul`s anti-communist alliance with Muslims though quite bland was only one of convenience, don`t make the mistake of thinking that he thought highly of Islam, he hated it just as much.

#111 by GT


``There is no such thing as circumstantial evidence in politics.``
“Are you `kiddin` me? Politics is all about convincing others through circumstantial evidence.”

Some time you need to bait people to get them to response. Obviously, SR just doesn’t have it in him to even try to bring in some facts to support his conspiracy theories. Circumstantial evidence mostly ends up being a conspiracy theory. Politics is all about understanding issues and placing them in the proper background and context. Politics is not abt convincing other through Circ evid. Some people analyze politics using Circ Evidence and mostly they end up in the black hole of conspiracy theories. That is where SR resides….

``otherwise I hear masadi``

Asadi is not bad just learn to parse his posts correctly.

FDR went to war against these guys…



FDR faced off simultaneously with the #1 and #2 militaries in the world, both of whom had more soldiers under arms, more ships, more tanks, and more planes than the US. Germany, Japan, and Italy supported their military with enormous industrial resources and boasted research programs that gave them the best weapons in the world. German tanks were better and faster than any the US could field. Japanese Zeros could outperform any other plane. Both the Germans and Japanese had already defeated other forces in the field and had experience in fighting a modern, mechanized war.


Bush fighting these guys by reinterpreting the Geneva Conventions



W`s enemy was a small, irregular force of less than 10,000 men, most of them poorly armed. They had not a single plane in their air force, not one ship in their navy, and barely a handful of artillery. The most modern equipment they could boast were cast-offs from our own forces that were two decades or more out of date. Their training was erratic. They were outcasts, even among their own people, with little support and no ability to make or repair their equipment.


And here is what NYT has to say…http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/22/opinion/22fri1.html

“The deal does next to nothing to stop the president from reinterpreting the Geneva Conventions. While the White House agreed to a list of ``grave breaches``? of the conventions that could be prosecuted as war crimes, it stipulated that the president could decide on his own what actions might be a lesser breach of the Geneva Conventions and what interrogation techniques he considered permissible. It`s not clear how much the public will ultimately learn about those decisions. They will be contained in an executive order that is supposed to be made public, but Mr. Hadley reiterated that specific interrogation techniques will remain secret. [Emphasis added.]
“

“The Democrats have largely stood silent and allowed the trio of Republicans to do the lifting. It`s time for them to either try to fix this bill or delay it until after the election. The American people expect their leaders to clean up this mess without endangering U.S. troops, eviscerating American standards of justice, or further harming the nation`s severely damaged reputation.

#116 sign of the times......even the Nazis started in a small way like the Taliban and the Alqaeda.
the difference is the Nazis had brains the Al-qaeda and taliban had very little

Re: # 113 Hindsight is great! Now you can be the great Nostradamus of chowk.

BTW watch out, your hindsight better be good! You know of the proclivities of zeemax, I presume!

Re: # 115 HP {``...you need to bait people to get ... response. ... SR just doesn’t have it in him to ... bring in some facts ... a conspiracy theory...`` etc, etc,}

I`m sure you mean well, and it`s okay that you like to score points like so many others here. I simply don`t get excited about, nor draw any pleasure from this silly one-up-manship game. More power to those who do. To me it is enough to exchange views and leave it at that once we have stated our case. But if the objective becomes to prove one`s debating skills, then I simply don`t have the time nor the interest to get into such a juvenile contest. Furthermore, this point was peripheral to the central theme. On that score I see that you (# 116) share the same bias as me, therefore we are essentially in the ``same camp`` and I don`t want to get into a pissing match. We`ll just agree that yours is bigger than mine if that is any consolation to your ego. Let`s not take ourselves any more seriously here. Some of us do have a life outside cyberspace.

affectionately,

...SR

US muslims show other muslims the right path....

Today`s Washington Post: Muslims Raise Funds For Catholic Churches

Excerpt:

Though Palestinian Muslims have reacted violently to recent remarks by Pope Benedict XVI, Muslims in the United States are raising money to help rebuild churches damaged in the protests and met with a Vatican envoy to call for more interfaith dialogue.

In Tampa, a branch of the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations gave $5,000 to help repair the churches in the West Bank and Gaza. Council officials said it was the first gift in a national fundraising campaign. CAIR has criticized the pope`s Sept. 12 speech at Regensburg University in Germany, but it has also condemned the violent protests.

In Washington, representatives of CAIR, the Islamic Society of North America and the Falls Church-based Dar al-Hiijra Islamic Center met for two hours with Archbishop Pietro Sambi, the papal nuncio, as the Vatican ambassador is called. The InterFaith Conference of Metropolitan Washington arranged the meeting.

``We want to build on the legacy of John Paul II and use this opportunity to encourage dialogue and not divisiveness,`` said Arsalan Iftikhar, CAIR`s legal director.

#119 SR ji
This is dignity and self respect. Kudos to you.
Regards

if zeemax is here plz read this

zeemax

{I`m not sure whether 9/11 was carried out by Muslims; but even if it had been, their answer would be :If you kill our women and children, we will kill your women and children.}

i am really grateful that you have proved me right at very outset of your post.

i wrote once:

``wherever it is carried out to satisfy ones own ego it is not jihad, its personal war so its a very sacred word for us and the thinline between jihad and personal war needs to be understood. and the jihadis you talk about are fighting their personal wars to satisfy their egos so they cannot be called jihadi in any sense``

and you wrote:

``if you kill our women and children, we will kill your women and children``

SO:

where is jihad?
where is islam?
where is God?

here i am quite comfortable to say under the light of your notion that this is revenge, personal war, ego. BUT NOT JIHAD.

hope you will come up with some reference of Hadith or quran to prove claiming Jihad in this situation as obligatory.(if you kill our women and children, we will kill your women and children)

beleive me or not i wish you could come up with some solid reasoning based on islamic sharia to prove your notion right and your objective should be to make the Liberaloons/Moderatoon like me to accept your school of thought. and plz prevent beating the bush.

you once said that haider is badly confused to urstruly. i started thinking at that time that i might be wrong. but i tried to adopt the way to question you to know your point of view where you feel i am worng. but when i asked about the jihad you said it is all written in the sura baqara and didnot tell me a single extra word and started tagging me with different names, which i was not expecting. beleive me i wanted to be corrected. but now i feel that your objectives are different perhaps you are trying to defend your ownselves not islam. you come up with the auguments to prove yourself right against bjkumar and the party. but you never tried to prove the teachings of islam logical and right. and there is hell of difference.

here let me tell you your mail contains lots of confusions. which can be pointed out easily.
for example you tried to prove your notion by giving the example of hiroshima`s nuclear bombing giving it the shape of hypothesis. which is totally wrong because they would have never said it Jihad simply because they are not muslim. wish you had quoted some example from Islamic world.

There are many more. Will elaborate in next mails. come to point.

thanks
haider

DISAPPEARNACES IN PAKISTAN

Why these news dont make it to English language media in Pakistan (allegedly a free media):

According to the news report below, reporting a protest by an indegenous Pakistani human rights organization and the relatives of kidnapped people, since 2004, Na Pak intelligence agencies have kidnapped over 2000 Pakistanis - including Engineers, doctors, businessmen, and technicians. THese Pakistanis citizens are rotting in American dungeons and torture cells with no information to their families for the past several years.

#123 That is bad indeed.

However, you would credible if you also spoke out against the napaak maulvis in Pakistan who have targetted and killed scores of shia doctors in Karachi? or attacked masjids and killed those saying namaz? or called for hadood laws which allow ghoondas to prey upon the weakest members of Pakistani society - women from poor families?

#123 Usrtruly: That is bad indeed.

However, you would credible if you were not so selective in your condemnations. Or gave praise where praise was due.

How come for example you never speak out against the napaak maulvis in Pakistan who have targetted and killed scores of shia doctors in Karachi? or attacked masjids and killed those saying namaz? or called for hadood laws which allow ghoondas to prey upon the weakest members of Pakistani society - women from poor families?

Re: # 125

The very day you will prove that 100% of moulvis are rotten eggs, I will condemn NaPak moulvis. And if you say that not 100% of moulvis are bad and some are good then you need to qualify the term with phrases like ``those moulvis who incite violence aganist shais``, or ``those moulvis who misguide people from the righteous path of Allah and Mohammad(pbuh)``. But since this does not fit into your agenda, you will never qualify your ``condemning``; and since you wont do that, I will also remain selcetive in condemning those mullahs who are collaborators to those who oppress us.

#122 by haider5

Pls. Check the other board. I replied there. Thks.

#126 by Urstruly

Why do you always fall prey to these domesticated_macacas? Don`t you know they always pull out false dilemmas to divert from a valid subject to another subject of their choice? This has been successfully done in this instance.

Yes. Pak regime has kidnapped and handed-over hundreds to the Americans without following any procedures whatsoever.. Remember Aimal Kansi? In that case at-least there was a US indictment; in these cases there`re not even any evidences handed over. They just pick them up and send them over.