Muslim Reformers - A Peek Into the Past

Dear Sadna,

Could you explain - honestly and in a non-Indian fashion- what exactly those numbers would mean...

Even if we were to accept your figures as the gospel truth... it goes without saying that the gap between the Indian Muslim minority in India and those of the corresponding agriculturalist and ``martial`` Muslims of Punjab, NWFP, Sindh, and Balochistan pre-partition was a much higher gap than today... this had to do with the classification of Punjab as ``martial province``, the neglect of Balochistan and NWFP because of the prevalence of the Sardari and Khan nizam... and the wadero system in Sindh... all deliberate British policy... this is precisely why the top leadership of Pakistan was derived almost entirely from Muslims who lived or had made their careers in what is now India... and this is precisely why Pakistan`s bureaucracy early on was completely dominated by the Mohajirs... hence the distinction of regulation and de-regulation provinces should have to be taken into account...

So in effect... Pakistan has taken a previously completely uneducated lot and forced them to educate and modernise... and closed up the gap even by your distorted and fudged figures shows how - despite Pakistan`s neglected education system- the education of Muslims has been an overwhelming success... But people like you do whatever they can to distort the facts and fail to put things in their proper perspective...

So simply... Your figures (biased and unreliable as they are coming from state propaganda) actually show that despite all of Pakistan`s failures ... literacy in Pakistan areas has shown a much greater upward movement than amongst Indian Muslims.

Bhaskar Dasgupta, {``It is one of the few institutions, which is taking definite steps in making sure that the Indian Muslim population comes to grips with the modern world.``}

Dasgupta Sahib,
Thank you for a very informative and well-written article about this great reformer and activist. Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, in his own days, encountered the all too often familiar rebuke of the Mullahs. In this age of crazy madrassas and even crazier teachers and graduates, it is reassuring that certain Muslims were much more capable in uplifting the standard of education.

I am equally fascinated by his superhuman ability to transcend centuries though:

{`` However, after his father died in 1938, he was forced ..... and finally in 1967, the Muhammadan Anglo-Oriental (MAO) School in Aligarh.

Re: # 33 and Beady,

I tend to agree with Masadi, upto a point. You see most of the elite donot seem to understand Islam, its tenets, philosophy, how it relates to the world and other civilisations. They have no understanding of western philosophical principles, nor do they understand the oriental ones. even the language of discourse is different. Both groups could be talking in English but they just spear past each other. They, the so called liberal elite, can develop arguments on the fly. Unfortunately, this only leads in one direction that of raising ethnic problems whilst forgetting the global context.

Look around you on this website. Young promising minds, with plenty of energy, over a period of time fall prey to this localised ethinc syndrome (maybe we can call it KATLES - KAals Theory of Localised Ethnicity Syndrome). I would not want to name names, but you can guess them.

(the only one who came close to developing this understanding was Iqbal of yore. Unfortunately he went awol with his ideas and soon disappeared into some philosophical black hole.).

Re: # 30 and #32 But there have been few Syeds who have left their mark. The result is what wheel Of time suggests (See #33 from Wheel of Time.)

#33 agreed O wheel Of time!
Places like the AMU and Jaamia are supposed to produce great thinkers. Perhaps AMU did produce these thinkers. But they semed to have biten the dust, and you the who exercise is reduced to your last few sentences.

To get above the local ethnic concerns, as you put it,you would need be training and developng minds. Maybe at this juncture this is not as important as producing people who can earn a living, and generate wealth within the society. Who knows in a few years from now you would get these great minds.

I will quitely lay a bet that these two institutions will provide the world with these great minds in the near future.

Good article on a great and important man.

However, to be really significant in a global-theological sense, such a liberal voice will need to arise, surive, and dominate in an Islamic country. ``Indian-Muslim`` issues appear Islamic only in juxtaposition to other, non-Islamic Indian issues. Within the world of Islam, they are more ethnic concerns than religious ones.

#29: Manto, the problem is that I dont really want to target every possible factor behind this issue. That way, we just go about needlessly exciting electrons on the internet. The objective was to see if one has examples from history which broke the back of the obscurantists, and as Sir Syed has proved, it can be done. Not enough, but it has been done.

#30 by strongman_dick. Well, as we have seen above, Sir Syed did go and beard the mullah`s in their own den (pun intended).

#31 by sadna. Thank you for the note. One wonders if a further application of the rationalist ideas such as that of Sir Syed and expansion of minority educational institutions (as I am under no illusion that the public education system will get improved anywhere in a hurry) will help push the Indian Muslim literacy rate upwards. And, btw, I am not a reformer, I am a part time hack :)

Dear Author,

If you can merely get Pakistanis to admit that with 97% Muslim population, their literacy is lower than that of Indian Muslims (who constitute a minority of 14%), you will succeed in being one of the greatest reformer of our times.

The information is provided below. Good luck.


Indian Muslim literacy in 2001 India census:
Overall Indian Muslim literacy(age 7 and up): 59%

Indian Muslim literacy for ages 10 and up :
Indian Muslim female literacy: 49%
Indian Muslim male literacy : 67.95%


Pakistan literacy figures for ages 10 and up:
Female literacy : 41.75%
Male literacy : 66.25%

Overall Pak literacy as mean of the two: 54%


India data from
[1]http://www.censusindia.net/religiondata/Summary%20Muslims.pdf
[2]http://www.censusindia.net/results/C_Series/C_series_pdf/C9_India.pdf
[3]http://www.censusindia.net/results/religion_main.html


Pakistan data From
[4]http://www.pakistantimes.net/2004/07/15/national4.htm
[5]http://www.sbp.org.pk/reports/annual/arFY04/Chapter_8.pdf

Beady, conservatism has a strong hold on the muslim soceity. Specially of the religious variety. The old leaders realised this, and thought if they could get these guys to rule themselves, they could liberate themselves. Unfortunately the expereiment has not worked that well. Currently, if you listen to the masadi types, they are slowly integrating marxist ideas into their brand of islam. Soo they will say Marx copied the holy book!

Religious Conservatism is like a black hole with an enourmous pull. It sucks in everything and spits out the husk. (all religions are like that). Muslim Soceity has to learn to be able to resist that irrestible pull.

beady mian,

It is impossible for anyone to fully understand the complexity of the work of Hindu and Muslim reformers without being cognizant of the communal consciousness which was the engine behind their efforts... but then every people have a dogma... and Indians have theirs...


Ironmask...

You continously want to spin the whole thing to your own pet topics. Being a member of the privy council is quite different from knighthood... I have never considered knighthood or the title of ``Sir`` as much of an honor... but Privy Council or Inns of Court are essentially and qualitatively different from an honorific title like Sir..

Privy Council was essentially the equivalent of what Supreme Court of India or Pakistan are today... now it is true that Pakistan has had its share of Supreme Court losers... but judiciary in India has more or less maintained great respect and honor. To me Privy Council, US Supreme Court Justices, Indian Supreme Court Justices and some Pakistani Supreme Court Justices are equally honorable... Being a Supreme Court Justice is a great honor for anyone and does reflect on the person`s accomplishment ....

It is one thing to be open minded... it is quite another to become pigheaded (and trying to pass it off as lohay ka nuqab)... See your analogies and apply your mind to them for once ...

The rest of your comments smack of your ignorance of the ground reality.

Ref Mantolives #18

[The question ofcourse is what makes you think they`ve failed...

Muslim reformers lagged behind Hindu reformers by a good 60 to 80 years (approximately the time between Ram Mohun Roy and Sir Syed Ahmad Khan`s efforts...). If anything we see the gap closing up. Today there is a Muslim bourgeoisie that has its own state ... ultimately, not far into the future, that state will become a democracy...]

But Osama bin Laden and cohorts are busy closing the gap between 2006 AD and 622 AD (in the reverse direction).

Pakistan will become a democracy the day pigs fly. And PIA Boeing 747`s don`t count!

First of all, thank you all for your kind comments, Second, apologies for the omissions or mistakes and third, apologies for the delay in writing, I didn’t expect this to be published as it happens!.

I have to admit that there is a huge amount of material out there on this remarkable man, and it was a struggle to hit the highlights. I will not comment on the TNT responses, that wasn’t my objective.

Iron_mask, yes, I am a bong indeed. But if you see, my point was this, looking at the current crop of muslim reformers (see my blog for the previous series or if you wish, I can drop the urls in here), the question was asked, have muslim reformers really made a difference? And looking at Sir Syed, yes, he has. Strangely enough, I have received many responses separately saying that the problem was not that but that we didn’t have more Sir Syed`s. So the technique works, it’s the quantity which is the issue.

#24 by kakolukiyum. I agree, despite some recent news stories about challenges that women students face in AMU. We need more of those types of institutions.

#25 by Naqshbandi. Thank you for the link. In return, I am giving this link which will definitely make you chuckle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Muslim_reformers

Dear Mr Dasgupta,

Thoroughly enjoyed your article, Many thanks....

http://www.hizmetbooks.org/Religion_Reformers_in_Islam/index.html

Bhaskar da,

A very good writeup on my alma mater......before this board rots into TNT, MKG, MAJ and YLH let me say this: AMU has been a godsend for muslim women`s education. I know many girls whose parents not have sent them for higher education anywhere else. And we once had a grrrreat hockey team from which many went on to play for India.
Got to run!!! Thanks again!

#5 by Mantolives

[A man who previously said, “``I look to both Hindus and Muslims with the same eyes and consider them as my own eyes. By the word nation, I only mean Hindus and Muslims and nothing else. We Hindus and Muslims live together under the same soil under the same government. Our interest and problems are common and therefore I consider the two factions as one nation” slowly changed his view and after the language riots, ended up saying ``I am now convinced that the Hindus and Muslims could never become one nation as their religion and way of life was quite distinct from one and other`` and ``I am convinced that both these communities will not join whole heartedly in anything. At present there is no open hostility between the two communities but it will increase immensely in the future.``

This I think sums up the beginning of the evolution of the two nation theory. ]


There is a small detail Mantolives forgot to mention.

The above quote is true as it pertains to Muslims and Hindus. AND IT IS ALSO TRUE AS IT PERTAINS TO MUSLIMS AND ANY OTHER COMMUNITY IN THE WORLD.

AND IT WILL INCREASE IMMENSELY IN THE FUTURE.

Check out the trends in EVERY European country, and in the rest of the world, as more and more Muslims migrate to infidel lands.

Guess why that is. The whole world is to blame. Only the Muslims are the good people.