Musharraf Spilling the Beans—Why Now?

#517 by zeemacaca

The answer is NO. My source`s statement may be wrong. No .. wait ... I withdraw that assertion. Since I cannot corroborate what my source said, you are right. Indian seniors must not have threatened to shoot their juniors in the back. My answer is furnished.

That`s an improvement. Good!

... didn`t macacas run short of coffins so had to rush importing them from US and then falsified the price at which they had been bought?

Yes, India imported coffins and there was a huge scam accompanying it.

No more jumping up and down like a monkey.

Since you`ve stopped jumping up and down like a bhand macaca, I think I`ll do it too.

Bhand_Hyd says:

Do you have a non-Paki Army source to corroborate your assertion that Indian Jawans were being shot at by their officers if they turned back?

The answer is NO. My source`s statement may be wrong. No .. wait ... I withdraw that assertion. Since I cannot corroborate what my source said, you are right. Indian seniors must not have threatened to shoot their juniors in the back. My answer is furnished.

Now for your answer to the question about Musharraf`s quote:

``The Indians actually ran short of coffins, owing to an unexpectedly high number of casualties; and a scandal later came to light in this regard.``

And my accompanying remark:

... didn`t macacas run short of coffins so had to rush importing them from US and then falsified the price at which they had been bought?

No more jumping up and down like a monkey. Answer the question!

#515 by zeemacaca

Here`s what Zeemacaca the bhand had to say in #487:

It was at gunpoint that macacas climbed as anyone who turned back was shot by their own seniors.....

To which I asked in #505:

Do you have any sources to back up your assertion or is it another Hamid Gul story which you lapped up like a loyal dog?

To which the macaca replied in #513:

A Pak army Major who was on furlough from the war when it was actually going on told me himself.

Again, I asked the macaca in #514:

Please come back with something more authentic and then we`ll talk. You know the meaning of ``independent source``, don`t you? Come back when you have a verifiable source, OK?

The macaca hasn`t provided an authentic source to corroborate his original assertion in #487 and expects me to answer his ``question`` in #511..LOL!!

OK, let me make this easier for you, because of your glaring inability to comprehend simple English. Do you have a non-Paki Army source to corroborate your assertion that Indian Jawans were being shot at by their officers if they turned back? Come back with a 3rd party source (oops...let me explain, non-Paki, non-Indian source) and then we can talk. Now shoo....

For attention of all Re: #514 by Bhand_hyd

So Bhand_Hyd refuses to answer the very question about which he had said :`` Sure I will..first your turn.`` And that question was Musharraf`s quote:

``The Indians actually ran short of coffins, owing to an unexpectedly high number of casualties; and a scandal later came to light in this regard.``

....... and my accompanying remark:

... didn`t macacas run short of coffins so had to rush importing them from US and then falsified the price at which they had been bought?

Now he turns around and runs away after jumping up and down like the macaca he is.

Oh well .... sigh! His inability to deny or refute is proof Musharraf is right. It is obvious anyway but just goosing this particularly stupid macaca a bit ...

#513 by zeemacaca

A Pak army Major who was on furlough from the war when it was actually going on told me himself.

LOL..this is getting hilarious. So a Paki major who was getting the hiding of his life told you that Indian Jawans were being shot at by their officers if they turned back? You`ve got to do better than that. I have cousins who were in the war and I have juicy tidbits about how the 155 mm Howitzers were bombing the cr@p out of Paki macaca a$$es, yet I didn`t quote them here because it is unverifiable. Could it be that the high altitude was playing tricks on his mind and the Indian officers were actually shooting down fleeing Paki macacas and the Paki major couldn`t tell his macacas from the Indian troops?

Pak didn`t need to use it`s airforce because...

Because it was winning???? No? Maybe? LOL!!

Besides using AF wasn`t in the Pak operational plan.

That has got to be the funniest excuse I`ve come across till date. On the one hand, IAF fighters and howitzers were bombing the crap out of your macacas, forcing them to haul their sorry a$$es back across from where they came, leaving back the bodies of their dead colleagues to rot, and you say using AF wasn`t in the operational plan??? Is it an ``operational plan`` at all? Do you even know what it means?

And dont squirm around or jump up and down like a macaca or create false dilemmas or tu-quoques to avoid answering this question as you`ve been doing in the previous posts.

As far as I can see, the only one squirming here is you, going to the extent of quoting some mythical loser ``Paki major`` who was only a furlong away from where the fighting was going on and what`s worse, from Mushy`s book which is not taken seriously even by Pakis themselves...LOL!! Please come back with something more authentic and then we`ll talk. You know the meaning of ``independent source``, don`t you? Come back when you have a verifiable source, OK? Off now....

#512 Bhand_hyd,

Ok. Parawise:

1) None of the above. A Pak army Major who was on furlough from the war when it was actually going on told me himself.

2) Pak didn`t need to use it`s airforce because it was busy downing yours. How many IAF were shot down? Besides using AF wasn`t in the Pak operational plan.

Your turn now as promised on this one!

``The Indians actually ran short of coffins, owing to an unexpectedly high number of casualties; and a scandal later came to light in this regard.``

And dont squirm around or jump up and down like a macaca or create false dilemmas or tu-quoques to avoid answering this question as you`ve been doing in the previous posts.

Just the answer please!

#511 by zeemax

Fine ... so we should dismiss Musharraf`s account and believe george fernandez ... great.

Abay Bhand Macaca, if we go by Mushy`s accounts, no Paki macaca died because he talks about Indian casualties alone and not Paki macaca casualties, no? Or come up with the Paki casualty figures and then we`ll talk! Sheesh! To think you`re the father of a grown up son..embarrassing!

Also:

1. Tell us where you came up with that fairy tale about Indian Jawans being shot by their seniors if they turned back? Hamid Gul or Defence Journal?

2. What prevented Pakis from using their Air Force? Was it lack of balls? Admit it like a man, even if you couldn`t fight like one.

Hey, you forgot to comment on one para ... this one:

Sure I will..first your turn.

#510 Bhand_hyd,

Fine ... so we should dismiss Musharraf`s account and believe george fernandez ... great.

Hey, you forgot to comment on one para ... this one:

``The Indians actually ran short of coffins, owing to an unexpectedly high number of casualties; and a scandal later came to light in this regard.``

Yeah. Don`t we all know of that story?

How `bout that one? I mean ... uh ... didn`t macacas run short of coffins so had to rush importing them from US and then falsified the price at which they had been bought?

#509 by zeemacaca

I don`t know why you exclude a source you don`t like but include your `facts` from sources as silly as george fernandez.

Abay bhand, that is because your Army hasn`t had the balls to come out openly with its casualty figures. If soldiers were discreetly buried without even the Paki public made aware, let alone Indians, one can only conclude that you guys aren`t about to develop balls in a million years to come out clean.

One army Division consists of between 10,000 to 15,000 soldiers while one Battallion between 6-900 only. So Indians were fighting 3500-4500 Paks with 40,000-60,000 soldiers PLUS airforce!!!

Umm..so Musharraf, the mastermind behind the misadventure is now an authentic source on his country`s ``great victory``? Not even Pakis believe his version, with many having openly dismissed his account. You lost it Zeemacaca, you`d better stick to discussing the glorious Islamic past with Masadi. That`s where you`ll shine.

Of-course because there were so many dead that they couldn`t keep count ...!

And what did you guys do? The Indians at least kept figures, but your pathetic macaca fighting force till date hasn`t come out with the truth. Perhaps because after having made the average macaca Mohammed in the streets believe that Pakistan won, it thought every single soldier in the street would be lynched if the truth came out.

I can believe that.

Sure, you`d perhaps also believe Nawaz Sharif dashed off to Washington on a 4th of July to beg a reprieve for the Indians, not the Paki macacas.

(Excerpted from Chapter 11 of In The Line of Fire, by Pervez Musharraf, published by Simon and Schuster.)

What a joke! Not even Pakis are taking this book seriously with some even debating whether it should go into the fiction category instead of non-fiction which it is supposed to be. But the bhand zeemacaca laps up everything that drips down from Mushy`s pants, and expectedly, this one isn`t any different.

BTW, pray tell us from where did you come up with the fantastic tale about Indian soldiers being shot by their seniors? Hamid Gul or Defence Journal?

#505 by Bhand_hyd

(defencejournal.com doesn`t qualify to be a source)

I don`t know why you exclude a source you don`t like but include your `facts` from sources as silly as george fernandez. Anyway ... here`re some `facts`.

Dispute these ...!

``As few as five battalions, in support of the freedom fighter groups, were able to compel the Indians to employ more than four divisions, with the bulk of the Indian artillery coming from strike formations meant for operations in the southern plains. The Indians were also forced to mobilize their entire national resources, including their air force.

One army Division consists of between 10,000 to 15,000 soldiers while one Battallion between 6-900 only. So Indians were fighting 3500-4500 Paks with 40,000-60,000 soldiers PLUS airforce!!!

``India raised the level of some of its achievements to mythical proportions. A hilarious example of this was the announcement of India`s highest award for gallantry, given to a soldier posthumously, because he had died in the line of duty. Later they found that the man was very much alive.``

Of-course because there were so many dead that they couldn`t keep count ...!

``The Indians, by their own admission, suffered over 600 killed and over 1500 wounded. Our information suggests that the real numbers are at least twice what India has publicly admitted.``.

I can believe that.

``The Indians actually ran short of coffins, owing to an unexpectedly high number of casualties; and a scandal later came to light in this regard.``

Yeah. Don`t we all know of that story?

(Excerpted from Chapter 11 of In The Line of Fire, by Pervez Musharraf, published by Simon and Schuster.)

#507 by okhla99

Your Masadis are much much more evil. And much much more numerous. Go after them.

Yaar Okhla, I respect you much more after reading your interactions with Masadi mian, but this argument sounds rather Khokhla (empty). How are Hindu fundamentalists more dangerous than the ones you are battling in Pakistan? Have they sent terrorists to Pakistan? Do they carry Kalashnikovs? Do they advocate the extermination of Indian Muslims and Pakistan?

Re: # 506

Respected BJK,

You have so many more Masadis. Go after them There is no other way.

Your Masadis are much much more evil. And much much more numerous. Go after them.

Unless the Masadi mindset is eradicated, our lands cannot realise their true potential. The Masadis on both sides of the border must go.

#503 Okhla99

Yaar, with all due respect, let`s be blunt about it.

Your country of Pakistan was created based on religion - pure and simple - no matter what spin the Mantos try to give it.

Because your big Honcho thought that MUSLIMS ARE A BREED APART and are too good to live among kafirs - so they needed a Dar-al-Islam of their own (and the fact that he gobbled up pork was neither here, nor there)! And those who believed they could only live safely among other Muslims followed him there. And then you guys completed the process by kicking out the Hindus and other minorities. You wanted your dar-ul-Islam and you got your dar-ul-Islam!

Through the sub-continent`s very own ethnic cleansing!

Therefore, no matter what attempts your dictators and their minions make - and no matter how any of your intelligentsia slices it or dices it, your baby is naked - and any attempts to give it a cover of respectability by chest thumping ``Dil, dil, Pakistan!`` are patently dishonest!

There IS no secular, progressive Pakistan because that tree was planted on a toxic dump of religious bigotry and the grandeur of ``racial`` superiority! The roots of the tree go deep and have absorbed a lot of that poison.

For sixty whole years!

Yet the dishonest lot of Pakistanis here has the gall to say - no, no, that poison fruit which it is bearing day in and day out - which it has been dumping into India day in and day out - and which it now is providing to the whole world day in and day out - no,no, no, that was not what this tree was all about!

Get real, yaar!

So the Masadi and others like him may be misguided for sure - as are the few Indian Muslims who are currently supporting the Jihadists.

But I would not call them dishonest!

About the Pakistani liberals - I am not so sure!

#487 by zeemacaca

It was at gunpoint that macacas climbed as anyone who turned back was shot by their own seniors.....

Do you have any sources to back up your assertion or is it another Hamid Gul story which you lapped up like a loyal dog? I guess NOT, otherwise you would have provided it here (defencejournal.com doesn`t qualify to be a source).

But the Indians fought by attrition regardless of the fact they were killed like flies till Paks ran out of ammunition and supplies.

So why don`t you post the casualty figures for both sides? Every source that I checked reports that Paki macaca casualties were higher than Indian despite the fact that Paki macacas were occupying higher ground, and military analysts say that troops fighting uphill are likely to suffer at least thrice the number of casualties than troops looking downhill. Perhaps as someone fed the myth that Paki macacas are superior to Indian troops, you find it hard to swallow, but abay Bhand, facts have always been unkind to Pakis.

From Global Security (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/kargil-99.htm)

Indian casualties - 524
Paki casualties - 696 (According to Indian Defense Minister George Fernandes)

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kargil_War)

Indian casualties - 527
Paki casualties - 1042 (Indian estimate)

Since the Paki macacas all along didn`t have the balls to admit they were fighting in the first place, there is no accurate estimate, so we will have to rely on Indian estimates till Pakistan comes out with its own.

How many Paks were there in the first place? Answer: Max 5,000. How many Indians? The entire available army PLUS airforce.

So what prevented Pakistan from using its AF? Perhaps because it didn`t have the balls? And entire available army? LOL! You exhibit such profound stupidity that sometimes, one has to just sit back and laugh.

They were scared to cross the LOC all that while .. even after Pak withdrew....

Typical Paki thinking. Indian restraint was acknowledged by the entire world and it was a great diplomatic victory for India to be recognized as a responsible nation, while Pakistan was condemned roundly for being the reckless aggressor. Couldn`t see such a simple fact? Why am I not surprised!

Re: # 501

Masadi`s conspiracy theory:-

Any evidence, speech, newspaper, publication, research, findings or media report that does not cohere with his own views are a part of the global conspiracy by the US Christians and Jews``

Re: # 502

BJK,

It is not enough.

Each and every Masadi amngst us must be exposed.

The Jehadi & terrorist mindsets must not be acceptable to any of us.

They have caused immense damage to Pakistan and Islam.