Musharraf Spilling the Beans—Why Now?

Re: # 645

Massaddi Mian:

Social injustice is one reason I will never vote Republican, besides I can never relate to Pat Buchanan. Therefore, i cannot reconcile that I can ever think or vote like him. In my mid 20s I too was quite radical, those were vietnam war days. My father looked at me when I came back to visit during a break to visit my family, he called me the misguided youth. I thought it then and still do, that it was the best compliment I ever received.

You are indeed pointing toward a reality. Yes, you can call this reality a systemic disease or a problem. Staying stuck, or crying about it through exaggeration is not going to help.

Every economic system - including Islamic system if there is any - has it, and recognize it. Why else there will be Zakat? You call it systemic - implyng problem, I call it part of a system.

A system that provides outward and upward mobility is a better system. Hamidm is part of the solution in such a system. You should also become part of the solution.

I challenge you to point any system be from Allah, God, Bhagwan, or imperfect humans that does not have what you call systemic problem, or I call as a part of the system. Zakat hardly provides outward and upward mobility. Chopping of hands and limbs is hardly a justice to allow reforming or chance to move out and up. I may not have studied Koran - tried once gave up - but I have studied Zakat and Islamic banking. Neither provide what I call as outward and upward mobility from the corner of the system with sytemic problem per you, or that corner in the system. Soviets failed, Chinese failed. Islam as an economic system failed... yes... I just said it.... You simply put your brain power and focus in that this corner, and don`t give a chance to see the beauty of the complete system.

Anil

hamidm writes <<< ......... you never responded to my post #624 which is based on 30 years of personal experience - what is your answer ? .......... and forget about the bell curve - i never mentioned it, aslam did ......... my thesis is simple - blacks are poor because they are lazy, wallow in their victimhood and have a sense of entitlement .........all they have to do to get out of the ditch is work hard ....... >>>>

A ignorantly simplistic, sterotypical comment based on stupidity and little else. In your 30 years of experience how many African Americans are there whose work you have measured, and what percent of the 12% of the US population do they constitute for you to make such a generalization. The AAs did back breaking work for free all through their hard period of slavery when their families were methodically broken up, and subjected to all kinds of barbarism by your `gods` or as tahmed put it `Anglo Saxon ethos`. Then after that they were segregated in poorest most underfunded neighbourhoods, then fully one third of their young men are oppressed by the criminal justice system, then the schools that serve them are underfunded because the property tax base is zero, not only are the buildings crumbling, the teachers don`t get proper pay and the students as a result don`t learn anything. Most, those who are lucky to escape prison, and stay alive (their rate of death by violence is several times higher than whites) get low paying service or janitorial jobs, with no benefits or advancement (check their prepondrance based on race in such jobs- unlike you I have read the data), then with such low pay, most men cannot afford to feed their families so the family breakup that was a legacy of slavery has been extended into the present day. In these conditions, I would myself say the hell with it, it is not personal laziness the numbers reveals a systemic problem, deliberate exclusion caused by institutional racism. If personal reasons were the cause you would not see similar black/white population wide disparity generation to generation, it would be more blurry.

There can only be two causes, Social (systemic) or Biological (genetic) to produce such population wide disparity, and the bilogical has been debunked long ago. These things are beyond your level of intelligence, since you possess the genetic makeup of a baboon, so I suggest you keep sipping your lattes and picking the lice out of behram`s hair.

Re: # 642

Romair:

Indian muslim software engineer worked in my company, and he was great at his work. In fact he is helping me with one of my projects.

Anil

``paki sprinkler guy....``

what exactly is a sprinkler guy? and how rich does a person have to be, to have his own sprinker guy? i have heard of people having their own cook, butler, gardener, chauffer, pool guy, massousse, hair stylist etc..........but a sprinkler guy?

what does the sprinkler guy do?........does he sprinkle the water?.......and what is special about pakis in the sprinker business?.......are they better at it than others?.......if so, why?

hamidm mian....``blacks are poor because they are lazy, wallow in their victimhood and have a sense of entitlement .........all they have to do to get out of the ditch is work hard .......``

hmm......too simplistic a definition, in my opinion......i will, however, have to agree with you regarding african-americans in IT...........i have seen a lot of things in my life, to quote a comedian.........i have seen a polar bear ride a bicycle........i have seen the bearded lady and the clean-shaven maulvi.......i have seen an ugly norwegian and a good-looking indian..........

but i have yet to see an african-american in IT.........actually i worked with one...in my whole career!..........

there are, infact, three groups that, for some strange reason are invisible in IT.........african-americans, pakistani women, and indian muslims........one never sees them anywhere........every south asian muslim i meet in IT is a pakistani........every south asian female i meet is an indian..........and every black guy (or lady) i have worked with has been an immigrant from africa..........

i don`t think it is laziness, however........i think it is lack of role models........a black guy or lady has no one to look up to...........their family structures are broken, thereby not getting any leadership at a young age..........an desi arriving from a village has one advantage over the american black guy..........he has a set of uneducated poor parents who work hard and greatly value education..........something the black guy doesn`t have........

Re: # 630

behram mian,

........ stay away from strip clubs and avoid lap dancers during ramadan (aka ramzan)......... also, don`t read romantic novels or playboy before going to bed ............ may al-lah keep you safe from the shaitan during this holy month ..... ameen ... jazak allah khair ........

masadi,

......... you never responded to my post #624 which is based on 30 years of personal experience - what is your answer ? .......... and forget about the bell curve - i never mentioned it, aslam did ......... my thesis is simple - blacks are poor because they are lazy, wallow in their victimhood and have a sense of entitlement .........all they have to do to get out of the ditch is work hard .......

hamidm writes <<< a ramadhan story for masadi
by: Howard Schultz
Founder of Starbucks >>>

There is much more to that person`s biography than what you present, the happy coincidences that led to this person`s advancement are shared by so few, just like the few ghetto dwellers that become basketball stars, that banking on it and following it as a dream is a pipe dream. A new opium of the masses, keep them chasing a dream they will never attain while they fill the coffers of ther rich with massive surplus.

aslam suggests <<< Re: # 624
hamid
it`s not politically correct but there are some studies which suggest blacks have lower iq than average, maybe that explains their low achievement. >>>


There are not ``some`` studies, there was ONE study by the ultra conservative racists called ``The Bell Curve`` by Herrnstein and Murray, well debunked by social scientists and zoologists like Gould. So the developing world has less iq than the developed world but whenever our students come here most of them outscore the whites. Nobody gives any credibility to that study except Rush Limbaugh.

We are laughing at the death of humanity!!! It is as if the poor brainwashed Pakistani regulars who were made to sit on the top of the mountain peaks by the ``popular`` Jernail did not exist! It is as if their families did not exist! It is as if the entire blood shed was not committed to satisfy the bruised egos of the Paki Jernails?

And we laugh like maniacs on this tragedy?

Re: # 624
hamid
it`s not politically correct but there are some studies which suggest blacks have lower iq than average, maybe that explains their low achievement.

Re: # 616 by zeemax on October 6, 2006 3:34am PT

Dear Zeemax:

Is it possible for you to consider that maybe present day rulers of Islamic world are out of touch with the rest of the world, and what their citizens expect? Do you really think that the ruling class want their citizens to live in harmony and peace?

Have you ever thought why only the Islamic world brings in Arabs to fight their cause? Because it is the Ummah that they are fighting, right!?

Then we look at Darfur, Arab Muslims are killing Black Muslims. Why?

Why did we have a flood of Arabs to fight the Soviets? Are you acknowledging then, that Afghans (or even in collaboration with Pakistanis), by themselves could not have handled this invasion?

It is not the Ummah thing, Zeemax, it is the Arab thing, and hopefully someday you will get it.

Of course, I respect your opinion regarding

{Listen, you may have read a lot about Afghanistan, but I know a bit more than that about that country since Zahir Shah`s time so please grant me that! }

But, first, you must tell me why would you know more than anyone of us on this site? As for myself, is it because I am a non-muslim? uh! just testing your pulse.

{Name me a single Islamic country which is moving forward without either completely prostituting itself (UAE) or which hasn`t confronted USA (Malaysia). Any other? }

Granted, no muslim country can be named because they were mostly colonised in the last 300 years, or so. All the more reason that we recognize our inability to work in the modern world. Can you imagine if muslims suddenly became more liberal than the west? Then, what do you think the world would see? A very, very, very progressive muslim mindset. Is that possible?

{My friend, there`s no `community of nations` for the weak, but only of the strong (i.e. G7, G8, G10 etc ...). }

Do we then just go into oblivion? Why the stress on getting ourselves recognized?

What is all the fuss about?

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 595

Tahmad Sahib:

I forgot to respond to an important point.

``what does masadi`s stupidity have to do with the Quran?? i dont see any pakistani saying that arjun`s hatreds stem from the bhagvad gita. ``

You should ask Massaddi Mian, for a non-muslim outsider, I see that he quotes allegedly from Koran.

Regarding Gita - be my guest ... and express yourself.

Religion according to me is a personal belief system, and therefore strictly private matter, and that I do believe in ``is man, the best creation of God, or is God the best imagination of man``. I also believe that there can never be one universal answer to it.

Anil

Re: # 612 by masadi on October 6, 2006 2:55am PT

Dear Masadi:

Thank you for the kind words that your faith has taught you.

{Only a fool would trust a bigot to whom ethnicity is more important in deciding affairs than anything else- a sure sign of illiteracy if there ever was one.}

Or was it just your upbringing.

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 595

Tahmad Sahib:

I am too far out to defame any thing. If you read what I wrote carefully, it merely states my observation of Massaddi Mian. Beyond that nothing is meant or implied.

Anil

Re: # 597

Massaddi Mian:

``You use your stereotype of Islam and force it on me without understanding a thing based on raw hate for Islam and Muslims. ...``

I do not have any stereotype of any religion.

I just believe that religion, is a personal belief system, and is a personal matter llimited to personal mind space. And yes, I do believe in the validity of the question ``Is man God`s best creation, or is God, man`s best imagination``. Also, I believe that there will not be one answer to this question.

If you believe in what you wrote about Hamidm being smart, then please listen to his message, and adopt part or all of it. It will do good.

Anil

Anil