Musharraf Spilling the Beans—Why Now?

Re: # 645

Massaddi Mian:

Social injustice is one reason I will never vote Republican, besides I can never relate to Pat Buchanan. Therefore, i cannot reconcile that I can ever think or vote like him. In my mid 20s I too was quite radical, those were vietnam war days. My father looked at me when I came back to visit during a break to visit my family, he called me the misguided youth. I thought it then and still do, that it was the best compliment I ever received.

You are indeed pointing toward a reality. Yes, you can call this reality a systemic disease or a problem. Staying stuck, or crying about it through exaggeration is not going to help.

Every economic system - including Islamic system if there is any - has it, and recognize it. Why else there will be Zakat? You call it systemic - implyng problem, I call it part of a system.

A system that provides outward and upward mobility is a better system. Hamidm is part of the solution in such a system. You should also become part of the solution.

I challenge you to point any system be from Allah, God, Bhagwan, or imperfect humans that does not have what you call systemic problem, or I call as a part of the system. Zakat hardly provides outward and upward mobility. Chopping of hands and limbs is hardly a justice to allow reforming or chance to move out and up. I may not have studied Koran - tried once gave up - but I have studied Zakat and Islamic banking. Neither provide what I call as outward and upward mobility from the corner of the system with sytemic problem per you, or that corner in the system. Soviets failed, Chinese failed. Islam as an economic system failed... yes... I just said it.... You simply put your brain power and focus in that this corner, and don`t give a chance to see the beauty of the complete system.

Anil

``paki sprinkler guy....``

what exactly is a sprinkler guy? and how rich does a person have to be, to have his own sprinker guy? i have heard of people having their own cook, butler, gardener, chauffer, pool guy, massousse, hair stylist etc..........but a sprinkler guy?

what does the sprinkler guy do?........does he sprinkle the water?.......and what is special about pakis in the sprinker business?.......are they better at it than others?.......if so, why?

hamidm mian....``blacks are poor because they are lazy, wallow in their victimhood and have a sense of entitlement .........all they have to do to get out of the ditch is work hard .......``

hmm......too simplistic a definition, in my opinion......i will, however, have to agree with you regarding african-americans in IT...........i have seen a lot of things in my life, to quote a comedian.........i have seen a polar bear ride a bicycle........i have seen the bearded lady and the clean-shaven maulvi.......i have seen an ugly norwegian and a good-looking indian..........

but i have yet to see an african-american in IT.........actually i worked with one...in my whole career!..........

there are, infact, three groups that, for some strange reason are invisible in IT.........african-americans, pakistani women, and indian muslims........one never sees them anywhere........every south asian muslim i meet in IT is a pakistani........every south asian female i meet is an indian..........and every black guy (or lady) i have worked with has been an immigrant from africa..........

i don`t think it is laziness, however........i think it is lack of role models........a black guy or lady has no one to look up to...........their family structures are broken, thereby not getting any leadership at a young age..........an desi arriving from a village has one advantage over the american black guy..........he has a set of uneducated poor parents who work hard and greatly value education..........something the black guy doesn`t have........

Re: # 642

roamir,

..... there are lots of indian muslim IT guys - i personally know at least a dozen or more ........ asim premji is one too, you know ........ but have you ever wondered why you have never met an african american programmer when there was such a huge demand for them that they were even hiring heeng-eating macacas ? .. think

......... a sprinker guy is one who installs and fixes your sprinkler system ........ it is dirty and tough manual work, not the kind of work desis would normally do ........... my sprinkler guy happens to be a paki from a remote village in the potohar - unlike masadi he does not get government cheese and his kids prove the reality of the american dream .......... amazing man !

Re: # 642

Romair:

Indian muslim software engineer worked in my company, and he was great at his work. In fact he is helping me with one of my projects.

Anil

masadi,

......... you never responded to my post #624 which is based on 30 years of personal experience - what is your answer ? .......... and forget about the bell curve - i never mentioned it, aslam did ......... my thesis is simple - blacks are poor because they are lazy, wallow in their victimhood and have a sense of entitlement .........all they have to do to get out of the ditch is work hard .......

hamidm writes <<< a ramadhan story for masadi
by: Howard Schultz
Founder of Starbucks >>>

There is much more to that person`s biography than what you present, the happy coincidences that led to this person`s advancement are shared by so few, just like the few ghetto dwellers that become basketball stars, that banking on it and following it as a dream is a pipe dream. A new opium of the masses, keep them chasing a dream they will never attain while they fill the coffers of ther rich with massive surplus.

aslam suggests <<< Re: # 624
hamid
it`s not politically correct but there are some studies which suggest blacks have lower iq than average, maybe that explains their low achievement. >>>


There are not ``some`` studies, there was ONE study by the ultra conservative racists called ``The Bell Curve`` by Herrnstein and Murray, well debunked by social scientists and zoologists like Gould. So the developing world has less iq than the developed world but whenever our students come here most of them outscore the whites. Nobody gives any credibility to that study except Rush Limbaugh.

We are laughing at the death of humanity!!! It is as if the poor brainwashed Pakistani regulars who were made to sit on the top of the mountain peaks by the ``popular`` Jernail did not exist! It is as if their families did not exist! It is as if the entire blood shed was not committed to satisfy the bruised egos of the Paki Jernails?

And we laugh like maniacs on this tragedy?

Dear Hamid:

I just came back from a client`s meeting and knowing that I am not a muslim, someone asked me to verify that for a fasting muslim to masturbate voluntarily would make their fasting null and void, but that it is okay to masturbate involuntarily. This person was asking me how is involuntary masturbation possible? Can you shed some light on this one?

Would remain much obliged.

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 630

behram mian,

........ stay away from strip clubs and avoid lap dancers during ramadan (aka ramzan)......... also, don`t read romantic novels or playboy before going to bed ............ may al-lah keep you safe from the shaitan during this holy month ..... ameen ... jazak allah khair ........

Hamidm #628
Yes I agree it is a silly discussion. Why or how Peemax (and Masadi) are somehow finding everything as ``Islam wins`` is beyond my comprehension.

Hello respected co-chowkies (and one utterly and completely respected chowkie),

As you can see I am back after some crisis management for my employer organisation. Spoke to a number of people about the views of the ``utterly and completely``. Their reaction was similar to that of students I have narrated in my earlier posts. The ``utterly and completely`` does not have many followers is Pakistan. You can carry out your own sample studies (unbiased random samples if you please) and arrive at the same cconclusion.

Have managed to read all the intervening posts.



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Respected harish_hyd,

chalo maanaa that a lot of people believe that Pakistan lost the ``battle`` and if you look at it from the perspective of the ``retaking of mountain peaks``, it probably did.

chalo yeh bhee maanaa that Mush. did a volte face on Kargil by acknowledging it as ``army`s finest hour`` after denying army involvement for many years.

but a casualty ratio of 10:1 in favour of Pakistan appears reasonably acceptable in view of 4:1 & 8:1 accepted by Indians and 100:1 claimed by ISPR. ISPR figures are absurdly high. Indian figures are more realistic. Lekin 10-20% fudging toh sub -continent mein chalti hi hai..

But Sonia Gandhi is ``mounty``, HA HA HAHA !! LOL!!!
Respectfully submitted,

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Respected Zeemax,

Pl do not defend Taliban.

Respectfully submitted.
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Utterly & Completely,


Aap phir paajaame sey baahar nikal rahey hain !!!


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Respected Behram,

Your views appear sensible siometimes. At other times they do not. You are too cryptic most of the time.


Respectfully submitted
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Dear Hamidm & Tahmed

Thanks for taking care of the ``utterly & completely`` while I was gone.

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Let us all try to interact with some young People(who are just not interested in ancient heritages, Quranic or Puranic traditions, trauma of Partition, or any of the Pak wars with India). Let me tell you it is a great refreshing change. These people represent hope for the entire sub continent. They are intgelligent (not merely code-coolies) and more importantly, objective and forward looking.

Respectfully submitted.

Peemax # various

Are you complete idiot? For 3 months Pakistani army chief and everyone was denying presence of Pakistani army. Than they started pleading with US to save their a-$-$. Than they ran leaving their corpses behind. And now you claim that to be a victory. I guess your AAK signing surrender document in 71 was also a victory for Pakistanis.

Re: # 626

friend ....

...... i don`t want to get into this silly discussion about who won or who lost, but this is the answer zeemax will probably give you : islam zinda hota hai, har karbala kay baad ............

......... please don`t ask me what that means, ask masadi - he is an expert on the masada complex that seems to afflict us ............

why i go to starbucks every day - an inspiration for masadi

by: Howard Schultz
Founder of Starbucks

---

I grew up in federally subsidized housing in Brooklyn. I was part of a generation of families that dreamed about the American dream. My dad had a series of blue-collar jobs. An uneducated man, he was kind of beaten by the system. He was a World War II veteran who had great aspirations about America, but his dream was not coming true.

At the age of seven, I came home one day to find my dad sprawled on the couch in our two-bedroom apartment in a full-leg cast; he had fallen on the job and broken his leg. This was way before the invention of Pampers, and he worked as a delivery driver for cloth diapers. He hated this job bitterly, but on this one day, he wished he had it back. In 1960 in America, most companies had no workers` compensation and no hospitalization for a blue-collar worker who had an accident. I saw firsthand the plight of the working class.