Musharraf Spilling the Beans—Why Now?

#591 by behram1 re: # 567 by zeemax

Behram, this post of yours is so devoid of facts that it is quite unbecoming of an educated person like your goodself. Like you say .......:

(1) Do you really think that those terrorists in Afghanistan have won?

I`ve only come to think they have won after the British Nato Commander has declared ``... there`s no military solution to the Afghan problem`` and has achieved a ceasefire in the South through negotiations with them and has stopped calling them `terrorists`. Do you see it now? Can you stop calling them terorists too?

(2) They are the ones who call themselves as fighters and can not fight like a man.

You say that after the entire 13,000 US forces plus 23000 Nato forces failed to win control?

(3)Yet, they have cuased mayhem and destruction in that God-forsaken country...

So it wasn`t the Soviet invasion, nor the US invasion which destroyed the country. It was Taliban who destroyed their country. Wonderful.....

(4)...ever since Shah Zahir Shah was toppled....

Are you kidding? There wasn`t even any Taliban in existence at the time.

(5)...Inviting Arabs amongst their fold should show to some of us, where is the Pushtoon Bahaduri gone? Where is the Persian manliness?

You should take an elementary course on the CIA Jihad 101 as to who invited whom and why the `Arab Afghans` could not take control of Afghanistan instead of Taliban who did.

(6) The thugs and murderers from the Arab world have shown up and have taken the poor folks of Afghanistan for a ride...

Refer to (1).

(7)Zeemax, you must get your values checked.

Certainly I will, right after you get your basic facts straightened out!

Cheers!

Re: # 604 by zeemax on October 6, 2006 0:55am PT

Dear Zeemax:

You are correct on the facts. Afghanistan was a Soviet satellite state for a long time, even before the soviet invasion. Then Shah Zahir Shah`s regime was removed. Trust me, I know the intricacies of Pakistani/Afghanistani/Iranian (PAI) relationship from day one, which was all part of local people`s relationships. There was no component of Arab elements amongst them. Heck, the Pashtoons that I knew were vehemently anti-Arabs. Then, of course the whole region went topsy turvy, and the jabba wearing Arabs suddenly showed up in our part of the region wearing shalwar kammez. These hate mongers are now the prime targets of every enlightened people of this world.

And these Arabs are creating all kinds of mayhem and destruction, by changing their labels constantly, yet they are all from the same fabric. It is due to their entrance into the PAI region that now there is the possibility of an all out Shia/Sunni war inside Pakistan.

Don`t you get it?

{Behram, this post of yours is so devoid of facts that it is quite unbecoming of an educated person like your goodself.}

Thank you for your kind words. Facts are that our (PAI) region is sliding into the darkest region on this planet. When are we going to take control of our own faith, and start moving forward in the community of nations?

You write {I`ve only come to think they have won after the British Nato Commander has declared ``... there`s no military solution to the Afghan problem`` and has achieved a ceasefire in the South through negotiations with them and has stopped calling them `terrorists`. Do you see it now? Can you stop calling them terorists too? }

Why have NOT you accepted all of the other statements of the western political leaders regarding our society? Cherry picking some statements to make your case does not show authenticity. Those of us who are on the side of enlightenment in the PAI region have always known that war is not the solution. The evil forces of darkness are ``buzdil`` and all they can do is terrorize that society. Whatever it is called is not relevant. How we behave in this world is the real issue.

Just have a look at the long lines of those wretched souls from the PAI region who want to come to the west, and any sensible person would agree the destructive nature of the forces of darkness. Heck, even their dress code (if any at all) is all black. These people are not fighters, they are cowards.

You write {You say that after the entire 13,000 US forces plus 23000 Nato forces failed to win control?}

Win control of what? Of the land of Afghanistan? Those imperialist days are long gone. Even India was ruled by the East India Company for longer than you were taught in the Pakistani schools. Mind you EIC was just a trading company, and they ruled over half of the world in those days, including the colonies.

Of course, the force of light want some human decency brought to the society, because now it is a humanitarian issue of the UN. The methodologies of this could be different for different eras. But, have a look at the larger picture. Would you want to live in that part of Afghanistan, where your heroes are the rulers? Where women and girls are being treated like cattle? huh!

{So it wasn`t the Soviet invasion, nor the US invasion which destroyed the country. It was Taliban who destroyed their country. Wonderful..... }

No, it was all of those political situation, including these forces of darkness. Methodology of brutality is not being discussed here.

{Are you kidding? There wasn`t even any Taliban in existence at the time.}

Ok, granted that there was no Taliban at the time. It is the decay of the society that takes decades. So now, the Taliban comes and destroys this society further, and you are OK with that?

{You should take an elementary course on the CIA Jihad 101 as to who invited whom and why the `Arab Afghans` could not take control of Afghanistan instead of Taliban who did. }

I know everything that is going on in the PAI region, because I read a lot on our region. And what is happening today is what you must consider. Past is history and we must learn by it, so as not to repeat it. But, the forces of darkness in the PAI region wants the whole world to be like bedounistan, and that is what is illogical about this whole situation.

{(7)Zeemax, you must get your values checked.

Certainly I will, right after you get your basic facts straightened out! }

Why are you so dependent on what I do?

Respectfully submitted,

What a gem!

#573 by taikonaut says: ``Then you turn around and make the same Gora (and not a different Gora) as your supremo machismo leader aka Mounty the mounting batman.``

#600 by harish_hyd replies:``Bhai taiko, if you`re talking about Sonia Gandhi, she is very much an Indian citizen like the rest of us.

LoL!!!!!!

Pssst ... dumb_macaca, do you think there`s a chance by saying `Mounty`, taikonaut maty be referring to mountabatten?

But taikonaut, it`s not really his fault ... he is the dumbest of all of the macacas on this site as you`ll find out; like after losing the argument with me now he`s posting tourist photos of some hills and acting as if the macacas on top just captured the `chotis` and pulled out their digital cameras ... all on cue. In fact these pictures are all fake.

<<< further to #588: (i mean ignoring the insults - which in your case is excusable since that merely reflects the paindoo household you were obviously raised in where every sentence is laced with three abuses). >>>

Bey ghairat`s wouldn`t know anything about upbringing, they feign politeness (while calling others bastards) while advocating and supporting the worst barbarism. Back in the 1960s my father was one of two in Asia to win the Rhodes scholarship, whatever that translates into, it certainly does not translate into paindoo. Upstarts from the gutters of Pakistan that are awe struck at the first signs of wealth when they land in America, like you and hamidm behave as peons of the West and that is perfectly understandable given that they don`t know any better other than servitude of wealth. Others have more respect for education and learning.

#593 by taikonaut

Oh Bhai, Taliban are nothing but a Pakistani version of Shiv Sena.

Except that the Shiv Sainiks do not carry AK-47s, do not force women into shuttlecocks, do not require every Hindu male to shave his head and wear a dhoti, do not ask minorities to carry a yellow cloth in their pockets to distinguish themselves from the majority, and most importantly, are not pushing for a Hindu version of the Shariah.

#573 by taikonaut

Every nation has to live with some fantasies. Pakistan may fantasize some chotis and you guys may fantasize some others.

Yaar taiko, when will you guys ever accept that you LOST at Kargil? The peaks that you occupied on the sly were retaken after kicking Paki butt. While what you are being fed can be called fantasy, the pics that I posted are certainly NOT.

Then you turn around and make the same Gora (and not a different Gora) as your supremo machismo leader aka Mounty the mounting batman. That`s not much of fight, and not much of independence. eh!

Bhai taiko, if you`re talking about Sonia Gandhi, she is very much an Indian citizen like the rest of us. It only goes to show that Indian democracy is all-inclusive. You may be white, black, Muslim, or Sikh, that is nothing to do with the state. The only thing required is ability, and from what I`ve understood (not that I`m a Congressi, I hate it from the bottom of my heart) she has proved very capable.

In any case, which one would you prefer - an Indian gori who heads India, or a Paki militaryman heading Pakistan, but taking orders from Washington? I`d certainly prefer the former.

read <<< is cringing and crawling to find the ONLY country >>>

as is cringing and crawling to find the only county (Queens)

Anil writes in #594 <<< According to him there`s no need for any other message or messenger. >>>>

You certainly don`t need to define my point of view. Hamid is quite dumb but he is not so dumb as to not understand what I believe. He perverts it deliberately because as far as argumentation goes facts are not on his side, so he has to invent labels. You on the other hand are even more pathetic than he is. You use your stereotype of Islam and force it on me without understanding a thing based on raw hate for Islam and Muslims.

tahmed writes <<< masadi: do you actually believe what you wrote in #586? >>

This response tells us that he has no answer to rebut what I wrote, which was quite obvious from his earlier post where he ignores the FACT that poverty rates for African Americans are THREE times those for whites in the US and is cringing and crawling to find the ONLY country, where poor whites live (the average income there is much lower for whites than the national average) to show that blacks in that country have a higher average income, when nationally they have a much lower income and are disproportionaltey affected by poverty. We don`t expect truth, fact or sincerity from supporters of tyrants and barbarians, they lie shamelessly like tahmed, in the open for all to see. They are merely following their masters who lie shamelessly to destroy life and ecology.

Re: # 597

Massaddi Mian:

``You use your stereotype of Islam and force it on me without understanding a thing based on raw hate for Islam and Muslims. ...``

I do not have any stereotype of any religion.

I just believe that religion, is a personal belief system, and is a personal matter llimited to personal mind space. And yes, I do believe in the validity of the question ``Is man God`s best creation, or is God, man`s best imagination``. Also, I believe that there will not be one answer to this question.

If you believe in what you wrote about Hamidm being smart, then please listen to his message, and adopt part or all of it. It will do good.

Anil

Anil

It is really gratifying to note that only non-muslims & the secularoons, liberaloons, munaafiquoons, murtadoons, and the two mirzaoons are opposing Mr. Masadi.

Mr.Masadi! you are doing a great job..keep it up. Muslims support you, a few non-muslims here hate your guts. Keep them on a long leash, but do not let them loose.

and now let us rejoice about this great news from Turkey, which the secularoons keep hoodwinking us about.

The world is changing, and the westoxicated scum would not be finding reprieve or asylum anywhere.

---

Anti-Americanism on the rise in Turkey

October 2, 2006
BY JOEL SPRAYREGEN
Concerns expressed last week by Turkish army commanders that their country`s democracy is threatened underscore the importance of today`s White House meeting between President Bush and Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Those of us who have advocated strong Turkish-U.S. relations understand that Turkey`s secular-democratic identity established it as a unique bridge between Mideast and West.

Since the ascension of Erdogan`s AKP party to power, friends of Turkey have been concerned about erosion of secularism and Turkey`s relations with the West. For the first time in the history of the Turkish Republic, officials of the governing party employ popular culture as a platform to instigate anti-Americanism; the sentiment is spreading beyond the extremist fringe.

The viciousness of defamation of the United States in media close to AKP is extreme, e.g., U.S. operations in Fallujah were called ``genocide,`` a word toward which Turks are historically sensitive.

Under previous governments, a majority of Turks expressed favorable views about the United States. A recent poll ranks the United States as chief enemy of Turkey; another shows Turks feel twice as warmly inclined toward Iran as toward America.

Turkey has adopted the role of defending Islam against the West, defending Iran -- Turkey`s traditional adversary -- against concerns about nuclear proliferation. Erdogan met with the ``military`` leader of Hamas in opposition to European and American denunciation of Hamas as a terrorist organization. Turkey`s president and foreign minister visit Syria, a country promoting international terrorism.

AKP`s purposeful erosion of Turkey`s secular and pro-western orientation is at severe variance with traditions established by Kemal Ataturk, founder of the Turkish Republic. Turkey`s armed forces have played a unique role as defenders of those traditions.

European Union pressures have succeeded for several years in quieting Turkish generals. But last week, Land Forces Commander Gen. Iker Basbug acknowledged publicly a serious threat from an ``Islamist presence`` endangering Ataturk`s traditions. Significantly, his remarks were circulated in the United States by the Turkish Industrialists Association. A Turkish columnist recalled last week Erdogan`s remarks that democracy is merely an instrument to establish Islamism.

Turkey has legitimate concerns about terrorism by the Kurdish PKK emanating from northern Iraq; President Bush should constructively address these concerns.

But AKP`s anti-Americanism on the home front corrosively harms American-Turkish co-operation. In June, addressing an Istanbul symposium on security in the Black Sea region, I pointed out that in 1990, Turkey was America`s only regional friend, whereas today it is the least friendly country.

AKP will probably remain in power after Turkey goes to the polls next November. Soner Cagaptay, a Turkish policy expert, has written, ``AKP`s conundrum is that it is not supported by a majority of Turks [and it] has used a populist foreign policy that bashes the West to boost its domestic standing.``

The president should be urged to use Erdogan`s visit to stress American priorities:

• • While Turkey has a free and independent press and the United States opposes censorship, Erdogan should use his moral authority to denounce anti-Americanism as well as the related phenomena of anti-Westernism, anti-Catholicism and anti-Semitism.

• • No democratic country should tarnish itself by association with Hamas, whose charter seeks destruction of another country. Turkey should treat Hamas as it wants the United States to treat the PKK.

• • While Turkey has security concerns owing to its location in a dangerous region, long-term security lies with Bush`s calls for openness, freedom and liberty in the region. Turkey`s willingness to send troops to Lebanon is a positive step, penance, perhaps, for failure to support the United States in Iraq in 2003. But it must be understood that the mission is to fulfill U.N. Resolution 1701, preventing rearming of Hezbollah.

Joel Sprayregen, a Chicago lawyer who frequently visits Turkey, is a director of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, a think tank that works for the security of the United States and its democratic allies.