Musharraf Spilling the Beans—Why Now?

Re: # 26 by HP on September 26, 2006 7:17pm PT

Dear HP:

Why should {a former diplomat should maintain some semblance of professionalism in his writings to be taken seriously by the readers.}? Could you please elaborate?

By their very definition, a diplomat develops forked tongue and are all over the map and nowhere at the same time. Unlike US diplomats, Pakistani diplomats have learned schmoozing 101 from their families, who have mastered the skills of nepotism and cronyism. How dare should we expect better characters to be diplomats of Pakistan? Their only value is to the editors of Dawn, because poor folks at Dawn can not get half-assed worthy column writers, and only these retired (or some would call them retarded) diplomats to write for them.

I am sure that you know about these wretched souls. Don`t you?

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 30

Looking out for ``national interests`` does include preventing the nation from being ``bombed back into the stone age``.

Looking out for ``national interest`` does include ensuring that the nation does not go the Iraq or Afghan way which it surely would have done post 9/11 had Musharraf not adopted the course he did.

You can continue to crib ad nauseam about surrendering ``national sovereignty`` and other such notions which have long been mortgaged with feudal lords, military or whosoever holds sway in whatever bit of territory. Fact of the matter is that Musharraf has kept the US fire away from Pakistan inspite of OBL/ Taliban/ terrorist camps/ Jehadis and so on inspite of clear proof from satellites, the world media and various other bodies.

Let us take time out from incumbent bashing....

Re: # 4

Salim, for the 1st time i have to totally agree with you...:)

yes yes..well said HP..

The Paki government actually did AQK a big favor by putting him under house arrest and not letting even his family meet him..everyone knows his daughter is a big bore anyway so not being allowed to meet her is actually a benefit for AQK..and the dropping of the hellfires and repeated incursions in Pakiland were also meant to clear some illegal construction...

Just as abandoning the bodies of paki army soldiers on the moutains of Kargil was actually a big victory for Pakiland....

The geniuses who told pakis that abandoning the bodies of their soldiers on Kargil without an inch of land was a victory actually war gamed confrontation with the US...

you can`t make this stuff up.



Musharraf `war-gamed` U.S., concluded Pakistan would lose

PAUL KORING

WASHINGTON -- Pakistan`s military ruler, Pervez Musharraf, says he contemplated war with the United States in 2001 but opted instead to forsake the Taliban and become President George W. Bush`s ally.

``I war-gamed the United States as an adversary,`` the Pakistani leader wrote in his martially titled memoirs In the Line of Fire, published yesterday. It apparently didn`t take the general, then an international pariah for having staged a coup to toppled his country`s democratic government, very long to conclude that Pakistan would lose.

``The answer was a resounding no,`` he wrote, having concluded that the world`s most powerful military would wipe out his forces, destroy his nuclear weapons, wreak havoc on Pakistan`s threadbare infrastructure, help India seize disputed Kashmir and then turn to his archrival in New Delhi for the support and bases it needed to topple Afghanistan`s Taliban regime.

#29 by masadi
“What they fail to note however is that such ``revelations`` might have unintended consequences in Pakistan, which I hope will be for the better.”

In some normal and regular political environments, there would have been some consequences and from a purely academic pov, I would agree with you.

The situation in Pakistan is taking a turn where Musharaf is the only acceptable person from Pakistan for the west as well as for the moderates in Pakistan. So his revelation is due to his knowledge that “consequences” are manageable. The US not only has made him a hope for the moderates but it has created environments that will prevent any chance of a military coup from the rightwing generals possible. The better alternate in Pakistan would be a control of the moderates but the political parties that represent the moderates don’t have the capacity or the political will to confront the army w/o the US blessings.


The situation in Afghanistan and Iran will get ugly and the Pak army and Musharaf will have to take some blame for that. The blame may come from the US or from both Afghanistan and Iran depending on the side that gains the upper hand. In both situations, the Army would weaken and that gives a small hope to the moderates in Pakistan that the army would be forced to handover power back to the moderates like it did in 1989.

Btw, Have you noticed how N0-man Khasi singh has caved in after his Cuba visit? Read his statements of late and that would give some clues abt Musharaf`s confidence.

Khasi_m, You know this ID will not last long either...

Re: # 17

I agree 200% with you. General started on slippery slope with fake october election and there is no end to slide. He should have allowed all three big leaders to return and forgive them as was done for atom bomb maker and allowed elections and faded away. He himself has boxed in and there no graceful exist. Once again army rule with any objective or direction. His electon farce deminished him for ever.

Apparently, Musharraf still lives with fallacies & fantasies. It would have been a great book if Musharraf had admitted that:

A - It was a great blunder to continue with Islamic fervour even after the Soviet left Afghanistan. Why blame the West. The West never asked Pakistan to create Taliban.

B - The unpredictable Afghan tribes being a `strategic depth` was an equally stupid idea.

C- Kargil was stupid adventure - a disastor for the Kashmiri cause and Pakistan`s image. Telling open lies & losing yet another war was equally disgraceful.

D - Agra summit failed because he wanted Kasmir solution before other matters. After wasting three years, he agreed to the same composite dialouge.

E - Lumping all blame on Bhutto and not army for 71 is not fair.

On the plus side:

Finally, he has picked up the courage to quote that Jinnah`s speech: `You can go to the temples, mosques......Religion has nothing to do with business of State`.

His Waziristan deal is sensible. The traditional tribal elders who were sidelined during the Soviet War and Mulla was pampered to produce Mujahiddin is being reversed. Mulla is to be put back into the Mosque in line with the traditional Pashtun tribal customs. And it is the Malik in Hujra who is the temporal ruler.

He is naive but sincere. Actually secular but lacks courage to deal with Mullas.

His On-JOB-Training may cost us dearly in Baluchistan.

nhk

Apparently, Musharraf still lives with fallacies & fantasies. It would have been a great book if Musharraf had admitted that:

A - It was a great blunder to continue with Islamic fervour even after the Soviet left Afghanistan. Why blame the West. The West never asked Pakistan to create Taliban.

B - The unpredictable Afghan tribes being a `strategic depth` was an equally stupid idea.

C- Kargil was stupid adventure - a disastor for the Kashmiri cause and Pakistan`s image. Telling open lies & losing yet another war was equally disgraceful.

D - Agra summit failed because he wanted Kasmir solution before other matters. After wasting three years, he agreed to the same composite dialouge.

E - Lumping all blame on Bhutto and not army for 71 is not fair.

On the plus side:

Finally, he has picked up the courage to quote that Jinnah`s speech: `You can go to the temples, mosques......Religion has nothing to do with business of State`.

His Waziristan deal is sensible. The traditional tribal elders who were sidelined during the Soviet War and Mulla was pampered to produce Mujahiddin is being reversed. Mulla is to be put back into the Mosque in line with the traditional Pashtun tribal customs. And it is the Malik in Hujra who is the temporal ruler.

He is naive but sincere. Actually secular but lacks courage to deal with Mullas.

His On-JOB-Training may cost us dearly in Baluchistan.

nhk

HP is right in #26 that Pak would have hitched onto the bandwagon anyway, threat or no threat. It had no reason to go to war on Taliban`s behalf, but rather still supporting them only to keep the Northern Alliance at bay. This is where US double-crossed Pak.

Taliban had started to become a headache for Pak as well since the world community considered Pak responsible for Taliban`s actions and pressured it to control them. But as it was, Taliban after coming to Power had begun to spurn Pakistan`s `suggestions` re matters such as the Bamyan Buddhas, softening their strict sharia laws, handing over Usama after African embassies etc., and had been gradually distancing themselves from Pak influence.

Part of the deal with US was that after fall of Taliban, Kabul will be held by international forces. As it turned out, US got the Northern Alliance waiting on the edges of Kabul till Taliban evacuated, and then allowed them to occupy the capital. That was a betrayal.

I`m sure that if President Musharraf leaves tomorrow these same stupid people will be painting mournful and sorry ass lines like ``Teri yaad aayi tairay jaanay k baad`` at the back of trucks.Politics in pakistan has turned into a sort of entertainment and monkey business.You expect political maturity from people ready to sell their vote over a plate of rice or distributing sweets after nuclear explosions.What`s this three year suggestion? Politics is not cricket or musical chairs that test match should be turned to one day and everyone will get the chance.If whole of your Afghan and foreign policy can take somersault after 9/11 then why blaming just the President why nobody talks of the strategists or Political pundits or the predecessors of the present political regime.It is the blunders and spineless stature of previous leaderships that are haunting us now.Raising fingures is easy facing the facts demands courage.Here is a joke for the geo-political hogwashers of chowk,

A heckler once interrupted Nikita Khrushchev in the middle of a speech in which he was denouncing the crimes of Stalin.``You were a colleague of Stalin`s,`` the heckler yelled, ``why didn`t you stop him then?``. Khrushschev apparently could not see the heckler and bursted ,``who said that?`` No hand went up.No one moved a muscle.After a few seconds of tense silence , Khrushchev finally said in a queit voice, `` Now you know why i didn`t stop him.``

Good generals(soldiers) never retire, they just fade away, Who you are talking to dude?

with the Amiritage episode and its instant after effects on his dignity and self respect -- General Musharraf glorifies the art & the science of abject surrender of a country like Pakistan -- in front of alowly State Dept employee -- to new heights of self demeaning himself and his country -- what a blighted story and and what a relishing way to tell about self-degradation to the entire world! -- it is something that his enemies should have done to him -- not the Generalissimo himself.......Musharraf is unreal....he is his own worst enemy...

Re: # 26 On the money there.

I get the feeling that people here, including the likes of URstruly and Masadi, agree with the general content of the decision. What they seem to disagree with is the manner in which the case has been presented. Hence Urstrly`s admonishments in his posts.

But you have to hand it to the General, that he is capable of calling a spade a spade. A rose with any other name, still smells the same.

Also in the grand scheme of things, the good general as president of pakistan has the same level of prirority as Armitage in the US, and as general is almost subordinate to Zinni. That is the way the empires are structured. He is no Blair leading one of the largest economies of the world to be getting a higher priority!

While I think Musharraf should have fixed 2 or 3 basic problems in Pakistan after he took over (basically by restoring the checks and balances between the executive, legislature and the supreme court that nawaz sharif had foolishly tried to destroy by declaring himself a mard-e-momin; and by undoing the compromise of the justice system in pakistan done by zia by introducing a parallel set of sharia courts and his self-serving ordinances).

If Musharraf had done that, he would have been a hero in the eyes of most Pakistanis and in the eyes of history. Instead, he has not done the above and he has also vastly prolonged his stay as unelected president.

#41 Nazar Sahib

Let me add the following to your list of A) through E).

F) – Calling the Kashmiri killers “freedom fighters” – in middle of supposed peace talk, the height of stupidity!

G) – Pulling off the IC-814 and lying outright when caught – the height of double idiocy.

H) – Sheltering international mobsters and smugglers who create havoc across the border, and denying their existence which is known to the whole world – the height of underestimating everyone else’s intelligence.

I) – Turning on the terrorist tap again and again, with the futile hope that it will somehow, in a weird manner – bring about a speeding up of “peace” process – the height of being an utter moron!

J) – Putting feet in mouth again and again – the most notable being in the aftermath of the Mai episode – the height of absurdity.

And Nazar sahib, it was not any prior lack of courage that stopped Mushy from quoting the vamp Jinnah before – nor any fact that Jinnah was “out of style” then. Mushy is the CEC, the President, the khaki-in-chief, plus any of the thousands of other titles he could pick for himself – he is the current all-in-all of the land of the Pure!

Mushy did not quote Jinnah before because he does not sincerely believe in Jinnah’s bombastic speeches.

Nor do ANY of the Pakistani leaders – political or khaki.

Nor do the Pakistanis at large.

Nor did the charlatan Jinnah himself!

Yeh sabhie jaante hain ki ration per bhashan kaise diya jaata hai. Lekin Pakistan mein ration dene wala koi hai nahin!

And until the Pakistanis work on that mindset of Islamic “exclusivity” – there won’t be any, either! Take this plain fact from this very ordinary Indian!

Sad – but true!

The khakis are there for the long haul – because in Pakistan – “everything else tastes worse!”

#45 I agree with you that the general talks straight. Yesterday, on the Jon Stewart show, when asked by Stewart that if elections for Karachi mayor or something were held today and the two candidates were George Bush and Osama Ben Laden who would win - Musharaff came back with the right answer (``both would lose``). When asked by Stewart ``Where is Osama``, he responded ``I dont know. Perhaps you know, and we will follow you and find him.``

Stewart did a great job of being appropriately respectful to a head of state while being humorous at the same time, and Musharraf did a great job of responding in good humor and with straight answers.

This does not change what I wrote in #46 though.