Pervez Musharraf Vs. George Orwell

Hamid

I see the monkey is jumping up and down, from tree to tree, trying to abduct her to Sri Lanka!

LOL!

#48 -

In order to do what you were requested to consider, you do need to get the book. You do not have to buy it if it`s a toll on your emotional well being. You can ask your neighbors to send you a copy. I am positive that they would send you a few extra. They can be very gracious, if you show your civil mannerisms.

[(3) Even more difficult than (2), because of my pre-existing highly negative perception of that Kargil killer (which is in the same league as but perhaps on a smaller scale than the sour-puss-face vamp Jinnah whose TB-infested face would forever remain soaked with the blood of the Partition’s victims!) – it will be close to impossible for me to conduct a fair review of his book! ]

Well, well, well........the remark was completely out of line. Jinnah is not the only one to shoulder the burden of partition. Is that still the root of tension between indian and pakistani interactors? Why cannot we move on?

seriously pakis...what part of no change in status quo isn`t clear to you, huh?

Zero tolerance for terrorism’: LoC is there to stay, says Singh

* India, EU agree to improve intelligence flows
* Solana stresses all nations, not just Pakistan, need to increase anti-terror efforts

HELSINKI: India is ready to discuss privately “all issues” with Pakistan, including Jammu and Kashmir, but will never enter into talks on altering the disputed state’s borders, Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh has said in an interview with a Finnish magazine.

Talking to Kuvalehti magazine, Dr Singh touched on President General Pervez Musharraf’s proposal that the Kashmir issue be resolved through a special autonomy mechanism, by saying: “I would not like to discuss this issue in public with Musharraf. We are prepared to discuss all issues pertaining to relations between India and Pakistan, including the Jammu and Kashmir issue.

“I have said on many occasions that we cannot discuss moving borders. We have to create a situation in which it is irrelevant on which side of the border the inhabitants of the area live, because goods as well as people can move freely. That is the job of the two governments, and it is the only alternative.”

The prime minister also said in the interview, which had been conducted in New Delhi prior to his trips to Britain and Finland, that he was satisfied with his meeting with Gen Musharraf in Havana. “We agreed on common procedures to uproot terrorism. I hope Pakistan will seriously work with us on this issue. “The current constructive dialogue is based on Musharraf’s commitment made in January 2004.”

Indo-EU summit: Meanwhile, India and the European Union on Friday pledged to boost anti-terrorism cooperation, with particular focus on improving intelligence flows, with the Indian prime minister stressing that only “zero tolerance” for terrorism would send the right signal to those countries engaged in promoting terrorism.

Addressing the opening meeting of the seventh Indo-EU summit in the Finnish capital of Helsinki, Dr Singh said that strengthening international anti-terrorism cooperation was of “vital importance to all free and democratic societies”.

“An international norm of zero tolerance against terrorism will send the right signal to those countries directly engaged in terrorism or which are allowing their territories to be used for terrorist purposes. “The recent bombings in Mumbai as well as the earlier bombings in London, Madrid and Srinagar remind us that terrorism remains the most serious threat.” Talking to reporters on the sidelines of the summit, Dr Singh and EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana said that India and the 25-nation bloc had agreed to exchange information and intelligence to boost counter-terrorism efforts. Dr Singh said that this would add to wider international cooperation. On Pakistan’s efforts to combat terrorism, Solana stressed that all countries, not just Pakistan, needed to work harder. Besides India, the five other countries that enjoy a strategic partnership with the EU are the United Sates, Canada, Russia, China and Japan. agencies

Aisha,

Don`t you have other things to do, like make babies?

Ref Mantolives #12

[Addendum to #11

The word ``views`` in the last line between ``his`` and ``down your throat``.]

Thanks for the clarification.

I was wondering how your original post escaped the Chowk editors!

#52 by harimau

May I politely , but firmly, ask you to cease & desist from such blatant, unprovoked, and vulgar comments. Such a fine lady does not deserve such cyber-assault.

Be as dirty with me as you want, but spare the decent & polite ones.

The above applies to all/any aspiring yahoos on Chowk.

P.S: Is CHOWK-STAFF sleeping ,selectively, at the switch? Two days solitary is the LEAST this deserves.





Mohammad bin Quasim.

Manto`s Pakistan..

btw: Mushy can`t face the mullah in the country where he controls the army? No wonder he folded like a cheap lawn chair and left the bodies of his men abandoned on the mountains of Kargil..

Chances of manto`s dream of a secular pakiland confortable in it`s Islamic identity: ZILCH...

No Dates, No Dancing
Why Pakistan`s university students are embracing the fundamentalist life
By ARYN BAKER / LAHORE

Like many other universities around the world, Punjab University in Lahore is a tranquil oasis far removed from the rest of society. But to Westerners, there`s little else about Punjab U. that seems familiar. Walk around the leafy-green 1,800-acre campus, and you will encounter nothing that resembles frivolous undergraduate behavior. Musical concerts are banned, and men and women are segregated in the dining halls. Many female students attend class wearing headscarves that cover everything but their eyes. This fall, when the university`s administrators tried to introduce a program in musicology and performing arts, the campus erupted in protest. ``Pakistan is an Islamic country, and our institutions must reflect that,`` says Umair Idrees, a master`s degree student and secretary-general of Islami Jamiat-e-Talaba (I.J.T.), the biggest student group on campus. ``The formation of these departments is an attack on Islam and a betrayal of Pakistan. They should not be part of the university curriculum.``

What`s most striking about that climate of conservatism is that it is being driven not by faculty or administrators or government officials but by students. At Punjab U., I.J.T. is the most powerful force on campus, shaping not just the mores of student life but also larger debates over curriculum, course syllabuses, faculty selection and even degree programs. Nationwide, the group has more than 20,000 members and 40,000 affiliates active at nearly all of Pakistan`s 50 public universities. Students who defy I.J.T.`s strict moral code risk private reprimands, public denouncements and, in some cases, even physical violence.

In a country where most politicians cut their teeth as student activists, the rise of groups like I.J.T. provides clues to Pakistan`s political future. Although the country is officially aligned with the U.S. in fighting terrorism, it is beset by an internal struggle between moderate citizens and the fundamentalists who aim to turn the country into an Islamic state. As the hard-line demands intensify, President Pervez Musharraf has backed away from some policies sought by the Bush Administration, such as cracking down on radical religious schools, known as madrasahs, and curbing Pakistani support for the fundamentalist Taliban across the border in Afghanistan. Observers say that Musharraf`s retreats on contentious issues have only strengthened the radicals. ``The universities reflect what you are seeing in the larger political landscape,`` says Samina Ahmed, South Asia director for the International Crisis Group, a think tank. ``The moderate parties have been deprived of their experienced cadre of potential recruits, but the religious parties haven`t.``

College campuses in Pakistan are becoming prime battlegrounds in the war for the country`s soul. Political organizations have been banned from schools since 1992, when violent clashes between the student wings of rival political parties led to the deaths of dozens of students. But by outlawing political activity, the government opened the door to religious organizations such as I.J.T., which acts as an advocacy group that serves as a liaison between students and administration. Founded in 1947, I.J.T. has hundreds of thousands of alumni who provide the group with organizational and financial support, with the goal of ``training the young generation according to Islam so they can play a role in Pakistan`s social and political life,`` Idrees says.

A visit to Punjab University reveals what that means in practice. About 2,400 of the university`s 24,000 students belong to I.J.T. Members are expected to live morally and to abide by the Koran`s injunction to spread good and suppress evil. For many, that involves adopting an austere lifestyle. Members meet for regular study sessions and must attend all-night prayer meetings at least once a month. Outside the classroom, complete segregation of the genders is strictly observed. When asked, many members are critical of the U.S. and its policies toward the Muslim world; although the group has no ties to terrorism, it`s likely that some members sympathize with al-Qaeda.

And yet for some, the appeal of I.J.T. has less to do with ideology than a desire for a platform to voice their grievances. Rana Naveed, 22, a soft-spoken communications student who sports just the beginnings of a beard and wears tight, acid-washed jeans, is troubled by some of I.J.T.`s more extreme pronouncements, especially its stand on the proposed new music program. But he is excited about the prospect of becoming a full-fledged member in a few weeks, when he will take an oath of loyalty and then work to spread his faith and dedicate himself to the welfare of other students. ``There are certain things I don`t agree with,`` says Naveed. ``But as a member, I will have to submit to their way. I.J.T is the only platform to put forward my proposals to the administration, because they turn a deaf ear to regular students.``

An atmosphere of moral rigidity governs much of campus life. I.J.T. members have been known to physically assault students for drinking, flirting or kissing on campus. ``We are compelled by our religion to use force if we witness immoral public behavior,`` says Naveed. ``If I see someone doing something wrong, I can stop him and the I.J.T. will support me.`` Threats of a public reprimand or allegations of immoral behavior are enough to keep most students toeing the I.J.T. line. There is no university regulation segregating men from women in the dining halls, but students know that mingling is taboo. ``If I talk to a girl in line at the canteen, I.J.T. members will tell me to get my food and get out,`` says Rehan Iqbal, 25, an M.B.A. student, who is sitting on the floor of a hallway with female classmate Malka Ikran, 22. It`s a nice autumn day, and a shady green lawn beckons through an open window, but they dare not sit outside. It`s too public. ``There are certain places where I know I can`t talk to my male friends,`` says Ikran. When asked what would happen if she talked to a boy at the library, for example, she just shrugs. ``I don`t know. I would never try it. I`m too afraid.``

It`s not just students who feel stifled by the I.J.T.`s strict moral code. Faculty members at Punjab University say that if I.J.T. objects to a professor`s leanings, or even his syllabus, it can cause problems. It doesn`t take much to raise questions about a teacher`s moral qualifications. ``Those who could afford to leave, did so,`` says Hasan Askari Rizvi, a former professor of political science who is now a political analyst. ``Those who stayed learned not to touch controversial subjects. The role of the university is to advance knowledge, but at P.U. the quality of education is undermined because one group with a narrow, straitjacketed worldview controls it.``

Groups like I.J.T. are likely to grow more influential, not less, as its graduates move into the political arena. For those students aiming to become social activists on campus, and later politicians on the national stage, involvement in I.J.T. is the only forum available to learn the necessary skills. I.J.T. groups across the nation have embraced the opportunity to mold Pakistan`s future politicians. In addition to taking classes on the Koran, members learn how to debate, how to present and defend their views and how to write persuasive proposals. ``I.J.T. trains and promotes leadership qualities,`` says Mumtaz Ahmad Salik, president of the P.U. staff association and a professor of Islamic studies. ``When a national political party catches anyone who has been trained by I.J.T., they benefit.`` Most I.J.T. members who choose to enter politics after graduation go on to join Jamaat-e-Islami or other fundamentalist political groups. Some sign up with more centrist parties, although they bring with them fundamentalist thinking that has contributed to the general turn toward conservatism in national politics.

For now a future in politics is far from the minds of most P.U. students, who just want to enjoy their last few years on campus. ``We would love to have a student union,`` says Iqbal. ``Then we could plan events and activities and take care of the students` problems ourselves. Right now, only I.J.T. has that kind of power. If the I.J.T. had competition, that would change. Then you would see what students really think.`` But until free elections and campaigning are permitted, the religious groups will continue to walk large on campus. The same could be said of Pakistan.

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I heard Rahimullah Yusufzai being interviewed on NPR(I know, but it`s a long drive from BWI): He said the paki army got it`s ass kicked by the pushtun tribesmen which is why they signed the peace deal in whch they gave the jihadis all they wanted..The paki army lost 700+ soldiers and they were confined to their camps..they couldn`t step out without being attacked..

El-president basically agreed to release all the captured men, give them their arms and give them their vehicles..

folded in kargil, folded in siachen, folded after the stone age call and folded in the tribal areas..maybe he should call himself Folderraf..

be afraid of the day when the wife is defended by not just the hubby but 10 children on this site.

u moron Indians won`t be able to beat this 12-persons team.

and yes, the article sucks...she just wanted to see a pakistani face on the tube, and she got it....now jumping up and down like a monkey.

Looks like most idiots here did not even bother to read the article...


This is also from the same article...

I’m in Lahore though and my country is headed by a military dictator who can neither be dictator enough to do away with the extra-constitutional Hudood laws, nor benevolent enough to resign as army chief and stand for elections. Filp-flopping between appeasing the mullahs and the west, he plays to the theater by walking the much acclaimed tightrope of a moderate Muslim country’s leader, all on Pakistan’s expense.

... Yet, I find that Musharraf’s understanding of the political history of Pakistan’s creation is a bit shallow. Had he really understood how much Jinnah’s Pakistan is violated in the attack on the parliament’s sovereignty, he would have stepped down as army chief the first date at which the Supreme Court mandate expired.


So far this is what has happened on this thread:


Instead of reading the article in entirety, after reading snippets of the article..

1. Sadna, being the pavitar Hindu nari inspired by Hindu cultural life (read ``Kyunki Saas bhee kabhee bahu thee) as she puts it, is shocked and awed by the fact that a wife dare have a disagreement with her husband.

2. BJkumar goes into hyperdrive of paranoia because lately his fantasy world seems to be crumbling and people are beginning to see Indians like him (and Gandhiji who believed that in order to be a true Indian, one has to be Hindu first and that a true society could only be based on caste) in their true light ... exclusivist, racist, casteist bigots masquerading as a ``secular`` nation ...

3. Maccacas go wild.

Mantolives,
Why are battling your wifes battles, she has written this article so let her be answerable.

JG,

I am merely commenting as a fellow Pakistani and a chowkie. I have the right to my own opinion.

I believe however that Aisha Sarwari has firmly put you fellows in your place with her #29.

#61 Manto

Yasser, make sure to arrange some English spelling classes for Ms. Aisha Sarwari, so she does not make asinine mistakes like she did in this crappy “review”! Also, it is fully understandable why she wishes to kiss the boots of the Mushy – like a sati-Savitri, she is trying to get you off the hook for calling the General the son of a canine species! Nothing doing - you can squirm, but it is only a matter of time before the Mushy comes after you.

Most likely, when he is convinced that you can get more than two votes - your own and Aisha`s! (In about fifty more years or so!)

#41 Hamidm2
[don`t start posting pictures of naked men again - i see it coming]

Mian Hamid. Your aversion to naked brown skin is legendary in these waters – which makes for a highly gladdening (and perhaps enriching) material for the Drs. Sohail of this world!

Therefore, as requested, mian Hamidm2, the following is strictly for YOUR viewing pleasure. (Everybody else, especially chowk-staff – look away!)

Dear bjkumar,

Given that you can`t write a single sentence in the English language without proving to us that you are an utterly muddled fellow, I suppose you should take some of your own advice.
Anyone with basic comprehension skills intact will see that Aisha has not for single minute let the general off the hook for anything ... but then that too would be too much to ask from someone like you.

They say a picture says a thousand words... This woman in the picture... I am guessing probably the unfortunate Kasturba... is for some reason a few steps behind her patti permeshawar... It puts into perspective Sadna`s surprise that Aisha and I have a slightly different perception of Musharraf`s writing style.

#63

Abey Yasser kee dumm:

(I thought you were not talking to me. Such a liar!)

Much as you are dutibound to play your wife`s own ``knight``, this here is a crappy piece of “review” and you know it!

In fact the world at large knows it!

Take for example where she calls Mushy head of the state of a developing nation – you know that is not true! How can Pakistan be called a developing nation – it is fully matured and it is fully developed – to the best of its ability. In fact, if one is to go by the geographic size alone – it is not only no more maturing, it is past that phase since 1971 and entered the next phase - a SHRINKING nation!

And how can she even suggest for George Orwell would have read the Mushy memoir? Everyone knows that Orwell is dead! Dead men don’t read! They just lie dead - sometimes along with inanimate objects like mirrors!

And how can she call the Hudood laws “extra constitutional”? Isn’t Pakistan brimming full with hot-shot smartass lawyers who can jump up and challenge any “extra constitutional” laws in a jiffy? What happened – did all the Pakistani lawyers turn into jelly and butter – jelly in their spine and butter for the Mushy`s boots?

And how can she take exception to clarity? EVERYBODY, with the exception of lawyers, knows that clarity is a good thing! Actually, the lawyers know it too – but being lawyers, they deny it because it would mess up their livelihood.

And she forgets the most basic of facts – nobody in Pakistan gives a hoot about what ANYBODY, including her, says of the book. The public agencies are all going to buy it with public money – like it or not – getting their butts kicked in the latter case with khaki boots, and that khaki boot is all that matters in that land of the Pure!

And also your wife’s example of oxymoron is all messed up.

The real example of an oxymoron is a “secular” democratic Islamic Republic – called Pakistan! In practical terms, it means killing all non-Muslims so that Pakistani Muslims can be VERY secular with other Pakistani Muslims!

And one more thing. This one is just too incredible – I think chowkies will be shocked!

The wife of Yasser does not know how to spell Jinnah’s first name right! Yup, she mis-spelt Mohammed Ali Jinnah!

Make sure that for the next review she does of a book, she actually reads the book.

And the review needs to be about the BOOK, not about HER good old days as a university student in USA!