Musharraf’s Coup - Seven Years Later

Ref Mantolives #107

[Zeemax, others...

Though many Bangladeshis would not admit it... but Muhammad Younis would not have a ghost of a chance of winning a Nobel Prize in a United India...]

A Christian living in India won the Peace Prize in 1979.

But I do agree that Muslims are handicapped... but not just in India. They need to be able to get beyond The Book to End All Books if they want to make a mark in science or economics and certainly in peace. Unfortunately for you, suicide bombing has not been considered to be one of the appropriate activities for eligibility for the Nobel prize though one would think that for a pious Muslim 72 houris, 24 ghilmans, a huge wine cellar (does anyone know the varietals stocked there.... hamidm?), etc., are prize enough and are not easily purchased even with $1.4 million in prize money.... heck, just one Anna Nicole Smith cost hundreds of millions of dollars, the price for ghilmans will soon be established as same-sex couples start divorcing and has anyone priced a good cabernet recently?

[The two states based on the partition of 1947 .... and the Lahore Resolution... Pakistan and Bangaldesh have each produced one Nobel prize winner...]

Yasser, dear boy, and you forget Subrahmanyam Chandrasekhar born in your hometown of Lahore who won the Physics Nobel despite the valiant attempts of Mohammad Gill to popularize him among Chowkies. But that is the attitude of a True Muslim! Those aadha-Hindus of Bangladesh celebrate Amartya Sen and Rabindra Nath Tagore, people who were not even born in Bangladesh.

Faisal -

[the best way to reduce poverty is to directly target the poorest section of population which has not benifitted from growth because agricultural growth has lagged industrial growth by a big margin. ]

Thanks for an informative post. By the way, who should shepherd the change? The General is too busy in marketing his book and sharing his ``qissa kahaniyaan`` with the rest of the world. Balochs are upset. Pathans are indifferent. Thanks to Mr. Karzai and his stiff cap and lonnnngggggg chador. I do not know what`s happening in Sindh. I did read and heard from some family that Karachi was under floods, no water and no electricity for days in DHS. Yes, cell phones are cheap to get. All the crooks are buying them left, right and center. No doubt in remote areas the telephonic networks assist the law authorities (a sham) to looto-fy the general public. I think the General should send someone to Bangladesh and learn something substantive from Mr. Younis. Do you agree?

Re: # 128

Anil -

[Both You and Yasser must try to eliminate Islam as the factor in equations you use in economic analysis. Both of you will come up with real answers that will allow developing real arguments and real solutions. ]

For a certain reason, they cannot. You are missing a point. For some or I should say for many, religion is the way of life and that includes everything under the sun. So some interactors will keep that in perspective either due to their own staunch belief or based on what the environment dictates. Everyone has a very different need when they look at a religion. It is not only limited to spiritual or emotional strength or someone to pray to. It encompasses a lot more.

I do not disagree with your stance, but when it comes to muslim societies you cannot make sweeping assessments or statements with the hope that by turning the switch on the light bulb will resolve the darkness. It`s a very different mindset. In general, ``traditional`` Muslims are not the only ones who appraoch life in this manner. I have a few Korean friends and it amazes me to see their involvement in the local church (always a Korean church). My friend outside of work has only her church activities on her agenda.

the biggest change however is the opening of the media. i keep stressing this point because media is changing pakistani society in ways that very few people outside pakistan recognise. now none of the losers here have any excuses . people now have the ability to make themselves heard. its just their laziness that keeps them from acting.

reminder - that was then:

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1605/16050530.htm

Nawaz Sharif vs the press

BEENA SARWAR

``...On February 9, Jang requested an adjournment of its case the Supreme Court against the Government after the latter, bowing to country-wide pressure from journalists, civil liberties organisations and politicians, promised to allow the group access to its newsprint stores and some bank accounts.

The case, filed by Jang on January 29, followed several days of accusations and counter-accusations by both parties, initiated by a series of advertisements that appeared in Jang`s publications from January 25, exposing what it said were the government`s unjustified demands (``sack and replace 16 journalists``, ``support us in policy matters``, ``refrain from criticising the first family,`` and so on). At a press conference on January 28, Jang`s Editor-in-Chief Mir Shakilur Rehman played audio tapes that supported these allegations...``

this is now - just seven years later:

do people remember how expensive and pain in the ass it was to make an intl phone from pak in the late 90`s? these days it actually costs more to call pak from abroad rather than the other way around.

for the first 55 years pak of existence, there were around 7 mn phone lines in pak. in the next 5 years the number of phone lines went up by around 35 mn.

around the time when mush came to power an arab sheikh bought a mid size bank in pak for around $12 mn. this year that bank was sold for around $400mn.

the reason i am highlighting the telecom and banking sectors is to point out that growth can be achieved through right policies. the growth is more remarkeble when you contrast it against sectors that have not been put under the gun such as power and steel. furthermore the first part of the reform was the easy part. now the govt will start running into some strong resistance because reform will start eroding the powers of vested interests benificiaries of the existing order. the best illustration of this was the commotion over kalabagh dam which was opposed by waderas who know that their centuries old domination is over as soon as the hari is able to compete with wadera. more water means more land under cultivation which means more production.

there are two more reasons why the govt needs to focus on dams. first is that hydel is the cheapest energy source in pak and by increasing hydel energy pak will able to lower its dependence on oil which is the biggest drain on our foreign reserves. the other reason dams are important is that by improving agriculture productivity govt will able to improve the standard of living of the poorest segment of pak population: the residents of the hinterland. the best way to reduce poverty is to directly target the poorest section of population which has not benifitted from growth because agricultural growth has lagged industrial growth by a big margin.

people also need to be careful when reading economic news in the press. first pak press is filled with old school style unreformed socialists who still dream about the re-emergence of soviet union. second journalists simply lack the ability for intelligent economic analysis. third a lot of pakistani journalists are for sale and are in the jaib of vested interests. more on this later.

Behram writes <<< Masadi, shame on your existence for straying the gullible Pakistanis to your ``la-la land``. Gullible Pakistanis who can barely use their decision making skills about the world events. You shamelessly identify yourself as someone with knowledge and yet you hide in the cover of your faith and your holy books >>>

The ``gullible`` Pakistanis as you call them, can make up their own minds, they can check the facts, think about them and then evaluate if my argument makes sense or not. They should guard against logical fallacies in the arguments of dimwits like you whose only attachment to the West is the bikini clad blonde they happened to see which had a `case closed` effect on them- people who can think and have transitioned to the level of `human being` from `animal`, unlike you and hamid lcan ook beyond your BS, you both are still stuck with the cave man mentality, the lowest common denominator humans have with animals.

GT - I think it is certainly possible. Power combination in politics changes very rapidly, and a good canidate, like Manmohan Singh may emerge as a compromise from any location.

Re: # 132 by arjun2:

Actuall Premzi is stale news. There is a multi millionaire in assam, a deoband scholar, who recently started a minority party and was straight away able to win a decent number of assembly seats. This is the guy to watch. I am told that the saffron brigade as well as the congress are quite upset, since he seems to be zeemax like. .... interesting times, huh?

So much about who can become what in Pakistan. I wonder whether, in the near future, a muslim could become the prime minister or chief of the army in India. (Yes, i know about air chief marshal Latif and that was indeed great).

#121 by Mantolives on October 15, 2006 9:24am PT


Statistics show it is better to be considered a Non-Muslim in Pakistan than be a Muslim in India...


The statistics show that you only have 3% non-muslims in Pakiland..

And the facts show that India has Azim Premji and Ratan Tata and you have squat...let me repeat that....SQUAT....

Re: # 117

Friend,

The neutered Besharamjee Buddhonjee Effonjee from Pakistan spake......ignore him Or give him back that he`s a 2nd class citizen of a non-halal republic (country of hybrids i.e mix between maruaders and natives, who pose themselves as pure arab slaves).

He`s stateless and lives-off the loaves and crumbs of the neutered republic.....(I mean castrated by the US from being masculine).

His engineering degree from Pureland is better than our PUC. OTOH, our IITs are ranked 3rd best Tech Unis in the world. As for poverty they are no less......equally paupered. For proof read his Karachi newspaper like Dawn......the whole city floats-off the sewage .....which is worse than living in slums. Isnt it?

Let him compare his pureland with China or India with Pureland.

Like his masters, this slave 2nd class citizen is a good canine.....faithfull. Cant agree more.

Behram baba-
Stay calm and answer one question - can you or your progeny ever become president, prime minister or army chief in Pakistan? Assume that you have all the qualifications in the world. Why? Our most famous army chief, Field Marshal Manekshaw, was a parsi.

Could Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed have become president of Pakistan (he was president of India)? Or would he have needed to sign declaration that he was not an Ahmedi?

Manto munna #121

``one wonders why there aren`t any Nobel Prize winners amongst Indian Muslims (including Ahmadis)... when there is one each for the equivalent in Pakistan and Bangladesh? ``

Well well!! now equal opportunity implies that 33% of noble prize awarded to indian scientists must be to muslims. Great logic.

33% of Indian presidents have been muslims. Let Pakistan make 33% of its Pakistan non-muslims.

Re: # 122

Salim bhai:

``A. Q. Khan, a scientist of Indian Muslim origin, would certainly have had a couple of Hollywood thrillers and some other recognition had he been a Jew achieving great things for the ``defense`` of Israel. Come on, you are capable of much better logic. ``

Your logic is correct, however your implication. Hollywood, like anyother enterprise caters to the market. I am sure, if Hollywood were is Saudi Arabia .... . Whatever you will fill in the blanks I will agree with you. More important question is why must muslims see it through muslim colored glasses.

Both You and Yasser must try to eliminate Islam as the factor in equations you use in economic analysis. Both of you will come up with real answers that will allow developing real arguments and real solutions.

Anil

Re: # 117 by friend on October 15, 2006 9:03am PT

Dear Friend:

Where have you been residing? On some slums near mumbai? or squatting on railroad tracks? Indian educational system is just as bogus as India herself. Quality of idiots being graduated from your engineering colleges for those code coolies` jobs are now world renowned. Recently, all major international magazines are thumbing down on India and its so-called English education. Financial Times recently reported that Bangalore is reverting back to local languages, and the Economist suggested that only 10% of India`s engineering graduates are capable to working in an international corporation.

Indians can only go back to squatting on railroad tracks, before madman stammerer MM does not put you guys in some Enterprise Zone to ask for some more FDI. In 2005, China gets over $80B and the ugly stupid hindoo nation get $5B. So much for your nation being progressive and enlightened.

Respectfully submitted,

GT,

...... thanks for your informative posts .......