Musharraf’s Coup - Seven Years Later

Mantolives /Masadi

Have you also pondered upon why this award is for `Peace`, and not for `Economics`?

My take on this is that precisely it`s for the reason that it is not `Economics` at all ... but about keeping the poors` mouth shut for `peace`.

Brilliant.

#106 by masadi

...big shots of the corporate world are very happy with the setup and have set up their own micro help foundations by the dozens....

That`s true. The unsecured retail loans / credit cards etc for the middle-class are a highly competitive business in poor countries, and saturated given the small middle-class sizes. At the same time the poor market is limitless. So why not reduce the loan size and spread the portfolio amongst millions reducing risk, while charging the same interest? It makes a lot of business sense. Besides, the poor can`t default because they`re not economically mobile i.e. they can`t run away from their debt collectors.

Punchline is that the top retail banker of Citibank in the region, i.e. Nadeem Hussain, is now the owner of a `micro-finance` bank in Pakistan. He`s smart.

This whole thing has nothing to do with social responsibility. It has a lot to do with business.

Zeemax, others...

Though many Bangladeshis would not admit it... but Muhammad Younis would not have a ghost of a chance of winning a Nobel Prize in a United India...

The two states based on the partition of 1947 .... and the Lahore Resolution... Pakistan and Bangaldesh have each produced one Nobel prize winner...

How many Indian Muslims or Ahmadis won Nobel Prizes... despite Sadna`s fudged inconclusive statistics?

<<< It was established long ago that micro-finance brings micro-results. >>>

....while enhancing the status quo and so all the big shots of the corporate world are very happy with the setup and have set up their own micro help foundations by the dozens....

masadi,

Sorry to jump in your conversation, but actually micro-finance does help a little bit in a very limited way in meeting the immediate and compelling needs of the poorest of the poor. That`s all.

Micro-finance, is only an organised version of what has been prevalent for centuries in our communities i.e. the neighborhood BC system which is run by women. So all this nonsense about micro-finance being a novel idea and empowerment/trust upon women is nothing but BS. The BC system is a system of rotating credit which is interest-free, while micro-finance is the same but just recovers its cost through interest at standard unsecured credit rates.

Nothing to detract from Prof Younis`s accomplishment though. He did organise things so that whatever small entrepreneurship $200 can achieve, it may. It is quite another thing that more often than not that $200 is spent on thatching the roof of a house or marrying off a daughter.

It was established long ago that micro-finance brings micro-results.

#57 by ally

This is a post worthy of greater note than it has been accorded, though a few interactors have taken it up. In my opinion you have correctly picked out a vital disconnect in the national psyche of Pak what you term as `Pakistaniyet` i.e. indigenous identities.

The provincial languages have never been given their rightful place which has resulted in some people rejecting the national language. this in turn leads people away from Pakistaniyet. Nor is Pakistaniyet reinforced or encouraged through provincial languages.

True. There was an attempt at correcting this in the 70s (lesson of Bangladesh) when all provinces had been given the choice to choose between Urdu and their provincial languages as the official medium. As I recall all provinces had chosen their provincial languages except Punjab which had chosen to retain Urdu. But then the government was overthrown and the whole thing scuttled.

Regards our culture, art, and music, only now this has got some breathing space, these along with language are very important to ensure cultural survival of Pakistan and Pakistaniyet.

This is an exteremely important point, though I don`t see how it has any breathing space now. Again in the 70s, the government of ZAB had correctly identified the importance of not only preservation, but of promoting and projecting local cultures as a top priority. That is when PTV had adopted the highly successful prime-time programming such as Lok Tamasha etc and exchange of cultural troupes had commenced overseas. Great artistes such as Allan Faqir (late) and Reshmaa had been discovered solely due to this policy.

The concept of Pakistaniyet can be helped to stay alive if the cultures that make up Pakistaniyet are allowed to blossom. Why are there no British Pakistani performing artists? Because for the Indian kids there is cultural activities (such as music and dance) and they go on to fuse that with gora stuff and then britney wets her pants and wants some of that `tabla sound` in her music.

This is because local cultures were muffled during Zia`s time, the progress made in 70s reversed, and pursuing cultural promotion was considered a sin. Otherwise, there is no reason why the `Bhangra` genre of music had as many Pakistani artistes as Indian, because Bhangra music/Luddi dance etc is an integral part of Pakistani cultural scene.

The Pakistani kids dont have that they have, you guessed it, the mosque, boring Islamiyet, and miah mullah from AJK and co to beat them silly and talk about jihad in Pahari or really shitty Urdu.

Once the indigenous cultural identities had been lost as detailed above, the vacuum was filled by an Islamic identity in toto. There`s nothing wrong with talking Jihad (as long as they know what they`re talking about) but the audience you refer to above would be better prepared to a better judgement on what`s being said in the light of their cultural experience, had there been one.

How come you don`t get any Indian kids blowing up the tubes in London? Cause they`re all busy making money, music, or education.

I disagree with the reason you`ve provided. Reasons go a bit deeper than that.

....when i was growing up the only cultural outlet i had was Urdu A level class where i read Manto, Rajinder Singh Bedi, Munshi Prem Chand and co, and learnt about Pakistan before and after it came into being.....

You were lucky. Kids now do not have any such opportunity. The loss of access to classic Urdu literature (and indeed more so the Sindhi/Punjabi Sufi literature) has been catastrophic. How many kids are likely to have read Aag ka Darya? You left out Krishan Chandar though ... my personal favourite:-)

My Sikh friends knew how to do Bhangra well before i did...

Since you`re interested in this stuff, do buy a CD of the soundtrack of `Bhaji on the Beach` and see how much excellance has been achieved in simple songs of the kind you`ve been hearing in shaadis all your life.

Slowly, slowly the younger kids loose all connection with Pak, they identify with Ummah and not Pakistan, or Pakistaniyet, because there is nothing to identify with.

This is true.

Pakistan gets the blame for all hard core Brit Pakis on a mission to blow something up.

I don`t agree. But again this is another discussion.

Where are contemporary Pakistani artists, sculptors, painters, writers, film directors, actors (they`re all runing away to India), singers (so are they!), etc? These are all the people that will ensure Paksitaniyet survives and becomes stronger.

Since the entire cultural machinery/industry was dismantled, the artistes have no choice.

With direct and precise policies the govt. can ensure Pakistaniyet`s survival not only in Pakistan but within the diaspora as well (so that they become for Pakistan an advert and not a shameful burden)...

This won`t happen until militaries rule the country. You see, all this ultimately translates into `Nationalism`, and `Nationalism` is the antithesis to Globalisation. When have any nationalistic governments been allowed to survive and take root? From Nasser to ZAB (extreme) to NS (mild), all these have been undermined and uprooted and replaced with one form of dictatorship or the other to kill nothing but nationalism. Until you reject globalisation, you can`t have nationalism, nor blooming of local cultures. Globalisation is nothing but neo-imperialism and nationalistic spirit resists that.

My do paisas worth!

Actually it`s worth a million, but it`ll really be worth less than a taka unless you THINK!

Regards.

arjun writes <<< what about Mohd Yunis who said he`s going to accept the Nobel prize..and gladly... >>>

Hmmmm, I wonder if `micro` credit will help when half the country goes underwater due to the industrialized world`s disproportionate contribution to global warming. Those who push for `micro` solutions are given prizes, those that seek macro adjustment are labelled terrorists.....makes me wonder which group is enhancing the status quo of human misery...

behram writes <<< This freaking racist vibrating mullah-o-crat masadi`s constant anti-America hate posts is not what America is all about >>>

They feel threatened when the facts about their fake heaven are revealed. The land of booze and bikinis emerges as just another dung hole for humanity- it is as if their whole life was just proven to be a lie. I feel their pain and such reactions are expected. Listen to me or don`t listen to me, sooner or later this system`s victimization of the vast majority will be evident to all, will you be able to rescue yourself from it, or will you look back with despair at your wasted lives, is the big question to ponder...

GT writes <<< Letting the fed. take care of education and health at the local level is not fine by me. A substantial part of the taxes have to be pumped back to the local level. How it is to be spent there is the responsibility of the locals. And yes, if there is a fight over resource allocation at the local level then so be it. If the locals decide to divert all resources to obscure education and pre-historic medicine so be it >>>

That is exactly what I mean by private solutions being inadequate for public issues. Health, education and infrastructure are ``public`` goods, no local fight over these can be tolerated, in that fight, we know who will win, the vested few, as a result those `public` goods will be denied to the public and the status quo of ignorance will prevail

Then he writes <<< In this process the local mullah may offer support or opposition. It would be wrong to assume that all of them would be in opposition. >>>

The mullah`s worldview is a product of an environment in which he has carved a niche in the support structure of the public, in an environment in which he FED is missing. That ignorance and unjustified authority will continue if the FED continues to default on its greater ability to provide basic necessities. Less government is fine and dandy only after the provision of basic necessities is guaranteed, when the state fails to provide these defaulting to various `locals` is a situation where democratic institutions will never take hold, the fed merely becomes a thug on a higher level, the higher mullah and little else.

Dear Nasah -

May I please request you to go easy on ``e`` and go heavy on ``a`` ? It`s a very simple task.

Thank you.

Re: # 97

It is Fortune. You are being silly. You cannot say that all Indian Women cherish the same fate as that of Ms. Nooyi and others. There are tons of articles on the social issues pertaining to health related matters and dowry burning issues among Indian women.

The western world indeed acknowledge India for its ancient culture, but that impression is a very ``area specific`` impression, e.g. meditation, ayurvedic and holistic practices. Why is the Gates Foundation investing so heavily in the philanthropic activities in India?

Ms. Nooyi`s success is indeed commendable, but there were very few publications that spoke about her management style in a positive manner.

Is there any chance that Mr. Edhi will ever be awarded a Nobel Peace Prize? What about Mukhtaran for being a torch bearer for underprivileged women worldwide? What about the macho General for his ``manliness`` and ``focus`` and ``execution`` in the line of fire? I am not being sarcastic. I am just talking out loud. Fortunately, Time Magazine had already nominated Mukhtaran and the General among the top 100.

I heard/read a few comments on Musharraf`s take in his book. One critic said that he should not have written from an army general`s perspective. I think the said critic also emphasized that the General kind of violated the code of conduct. This kind of critique is buk buk and annoying. He is an army man whether the world likes it or not. The man has served in the armed forces throughout his life. Obviously, he is going to write from that perspective. He cannot let go of his army ego or way of thinking. Asking him to wear a shalwar suit and weird waist-coast to pacify the civilian ego is plain nonsense. He is a smart guy and needs to rearrange his key priorities - eliminating the hudood nonsense and granting women equal rights may make him win a Nobel Peace Prize (a well deserved one!). He will gain immense respect and good publicity worldwide and his name will be respectfully remembered in the chapters of history. Little kids will read in their social studies about his accomplishments and the impact on the fair sex.

Why is it so hard to absorb this simple and straightforward concept and execute? Why should each leader in Pakistan inherit the baggage from the past leaderships and not be able to implement much needed logical changes? What is the definition of leadership? If Mr. Yonus could change the lives of millions by just implementing his belief and vision, then why is the ``powerful`` General actually hesitant to take a step in the real line of fire? What a myth!

why are you guys whining...Indian women don`t have the same opportunity as Paki women to get canadian visas and make millions of $$...Indians have to remain content with Indra Nooyi and the 3 Indian women on the fortune(or was it forbes) list...

`` if Musharraf was able to control the following inhuman and barbaric practice during his tenure then I guess no one would have remembered the romantic coup. Unfortunately, he cannot fight with uncivilized customs, sick mentalities and/or barbaric ways of dealing with women`s rights.``(Zehra J)

Because the pompous ass Cop-in-Chief is the biggest cop-out-chief when it comes to the women`s rights in Pakistan.

For the past six months -- the flaky `reformer` of the fake `enlightened moderation` -- has been building the charade of a Taj Mahal of -- `all party consensus` -- for a measly token reform of the ``uncivilized customs`` and barbaric ways``, the rape law treats the violated women of Pakistan -- with one purpose - only to bury the Women Rights Bill in the `muqbara` of MMA no-consensus -- instead of burying the MMA in that `muqbara` without consensus.

For women Musharraf needs ``Ulemas and Mashaikhs`` consensus -- were was Musharraf`s All Parties `CONSENSUS` when he hijacked the government at gunpoint and made himself the sole OWNER of the entire stolen government property.

Zehra J -- unfortunately, the man CAN fight -- and CAN win hands down -- but he wont.

Because Musharraf is a closet Mulla -- and Mulla Musharraf would rather pander Mulla Omar -- than bring the Bill in the NA for prompt passage -- for even a shameless show of tokenism, for the plight of the hapless Mukhtarans, Shazias, and Ghazalas of Pakistan.

Re: # 81 by bulleya:

``.........And lower-class maulvis have done the same.......``

You may be right, but I refuse to believe that all ``lower-class`` maulvis have done the same. The guy behind Mukhtar Mai, for example, was the local maulvi. It takes guts to stand up against the powerful in certain rural parts.

#92 by echoboom on October 14, 2006 7:59pm PT

what about Mohd Yunis who said he`s going to accept the Nobel prize..and gladly...