Musharraf’s Coup - Seven Years Later

[quote] Musharraf`s regime in NOT the best thing for Pakistan. However, given the choice among beheading/hand chopping Mad Mullahs, thieving/autocratic ``democratically-elected`` criminals, and shameless/selfish military dictators, do you blame poor Pakistanis for preferring the least harmful of their options?
[/quote]

To say People prefered is wrong, they were imposed with this Rule by millitary Might.
The democratic system, for whatever its worth, is only way forward...
You yourself pointed out three flaws in this Goverment

[quote]
Lack of self-respect
Dissolution of national spirit
Short-term planning or rather panic-based strategy [/quote]

the Answer to that is Democracy, the Parlimentry system restrains the short term
strategys ...
A democratic system invigiorates national sprit, actually its only during people`s participation that a nation is built...

and only people with `right to rule` have a respect for themselves and their jobs...

ally,

you have a touched on lot of things which at least to me dont seem to have a connection.

first, you can not judge the success of pakistaniyet by pointing to isolated incidences. about 10 years ago karachi was going through a very serious mqm driven insurgency whose magnitude was many times greater than anything witnessed in baluchistan. yet that mqm insurgency had no lasting impact even though mqm tried to paint that crises in ethnic terms just as few baluchi sardar are painting the current balochi operation. reason karachi operation had no impact is that most karachites saw through mqm dramaybaazi - mqm was drapping itself in an ethnic jhunda to protect its criminal interest. most karachites were relieved when army moved against the mqm and thats why you saw no blowback even though the treatment metted out to mqm was very harsh. karachites like most pakistanis are smart enough to recognise where there salvation lies. baluchistan situation is no different and in case you have not noticed violence has gone down drastically after bugti becane allah ko pyara. however it will take a bit more time for baluchistan to return to normalcy.

second, its you and not islamabad that is out of touch with general population. islam plays a big role in shaping daily existence of ordinary pakistanis and government in islamabad simply reflects this. govt in the centre cannot be secular when the people are not. media in pak is completely free and nothing i have seen indicates that there is a groundswell against islam.

third, turkey unlike pakistan was never colonialised. for muslim elites to succeed in british india, they had to learn english and this caused a cleavage between the elites who were dependent on british goodwill and the awam which had little connection with the empire. muslim elites retained their prejudices post partition and thats why the cleavage remains. turks in comparison did not have to learn a foreign language because they were never colonialised. thats why the elites and the awam speak the same language.
and thats why turkish language has continued to evolve.

fourth, most pakistanis unlike bengalis are happy with urdu as the maadri zubaan. bengalis were not happy with the arrangement so they separated. issue in pak now is to improve the quality of education in both english and urdu rather than choosing one language over the other. clearly english is needed for science and because it is an intl language. urdu is needed for us to learn subjects like like literature and history. i would also like to see the introduction of arabic with students having the option of learning a regional language. i dont think learning three languages in school is a big deal.

fourth, you cannot blame the govt for success or failure in the sphere of art. in addition your experience is shaped by your interaction with pak expat community in uk which overwhelmingly belongs to mirpur and the surrounding areas. i grew up in karachi and my experience was very different.

bottomline things are no where as bad as you portray and if you want to see an improvement get involved in the process rather than waiting for govt to do something. govt tries its best and cannot operate beyond the parameters of pakistani society.

Ally:57
Your 2 paisaas are worth a million-times more than the entire corrupt Dollars of the Generals & Civil Service.

InshaAllah such kind of Imam Zamin money will ensure us a glorious Pakistan. Young men like you have to teach other young ones in Pakistan how to be irreverant to their corrupt-elders.

ally

That`s one passionately argued post!

Faisal,

Pakistaniyet doesn`t have to be forced like in Turkey, but, at least encouraged, debated, talked about and promoted by the govt. If Pakistaniyet was really successful then would we have had the Baloch crisis?

Islamabad seems to be so out of touch with the general population. In a way Salim is right, religion shouldn`t be part of politics as all it does is cause more problems, the govt`s business should really be forwarding the state of Pakistan and ensuring it, and its people are successful, thereby making Pakistan more attractive to be part of.

The Turks have developed a very strong contemporary culture, and are very proud of it, instead of adapting english words straight up like us, they have the Turk Dilli Kurumu the Turkish authority that ensures the Turkish language is up to date and contemporary. There are many people in Pak who refuse to speak Urdu. The national language has no institutional support and even Urdu speakers have allowed it to become so anglified that those who have not had a decent English education cannot understand a lot of what they say, thereby distancing the general population even further.

The provincial languages have never been given their rightful place which has resulted in some people rejecting the national language. this in turn leads people away from Pakistaniyet. Nor is Pakistaniyet reinforced or encouraged through provincial languages.

Regards our culture, art, and music, only now this has got some breathing space, these along with language are very important to ensure cultural survival of Pakistan and Pakistaniyet.

India has Bharat Bhuvan (Its High Commision in the centre of town, very swish) and Nehru House (Its cultural centre, with constant cultural shows) in London, Pakistan has zip, even performing artists from Pakistan recently came for the Muslim Cultural festival and played in Nehru House (Nusrat`s nephew and co - God, is it just qavvali we have?). Pakistan has a shabby high commission tucked away in west london whose highlight of the week is juma namaz! and that too outside with no decent wuzu facilities!!!

The concept of Pakistaniyet can be helped to stay alive if the cultures that make up Pakistaniyet are allowed to blossom. Why are there no British Pakistani performing artists? Becasue for the Indian kids there is cultural activities (such as music and dance) and they go on to fuse that with gora stuff and then britney wets her pants and wants some of that `tabla sound` in her music.

The Pakistani kids dont have that they have, you guessed it, the mosque, boring Islamiyet, and miah mullah from AJK and co to beat them silly and talk about jihad in Pahari or really shitty Urdu. How come you don`t get any Indian kids blowing up the tubes in London? Cause they`re all busy making money, music, or education.

when i was growing up the only cultural outlet i had was Urdu A level class where i read Manto, Rajinder Singh Bedi, Munshi Prem Chand and co, and learnt about Pakistan before and after it came into being.

My Sikh friends knew how to do Bhangra well before i did, there was nowhere i could go to learn or no one to teach me (i actually learnt that and drees dance in the Pind) they knew how to play dhol and tabla, none of us Pakis would have known how to even hold it. Why was there not a Paki cultural centre to show us what we could do and become? Instead of drugs (and then gettin all paki schizo and going holy) my cousin could have taken his frustration out in dhol, or expressed it thru vanjli! wtf, he could`ve got creative and done some fusion shusion and ended up on JLo`s next album, instead he ended up with two kids, a kebab shop and a beard.

Slowly, slowly the younger kids loose all connection with Pak, and what do they have left, Islam (and not even the nice Sufi version, but propa Arbi hard core) they identify with Ummah and not Pakistan, or Pakistaniyet, because there is nothing to identify with. As the Paki govt here has encouraged eff all culture, and now, Pakistan gets the blame for all hard core Brit Pakis on a mission to blow something up.

Then they wonder why pak has a bad image abroad!!! If dau takka countries like Montenegro can advertise all 3 sq km of their `emerging` country all over the london tube station why cant a huge country like Pak (often called Asia`s hidden jewel)? Cause we don`t know which part of our country to advertise to tourists, we don`t know what part of our culture to put up there, the two bit rishvat khors in the high commission cant speak the english required to contact London Transport to arrange for the advertising let alone decide whether Amna Haq should be allowed to be shown on London tube system with or without duppatta! Cause we dont really know (officially) what our culture is, where its at, and where its going.

Where are contemporary Pakistani artists, sculptors, painters, writers, film directors, actors (they`re all runing away to India), singers (so are they!), etc? These are all the people that will ensure Paksitaniyet survives and becomes stronger.

With direct and precise policies the govt. can ensure Pakistaniyet`s survival not only in Pakistan but within the diaspora as well (so that they become for Pakistan an advert and not a shameful burden)

My do paisas worth!

Ally

Another useless article by Pervez Hoodbuoy. In my opinion, as has been amply demonstrated by him in his writings, he would do better to stay away from commenting on social issues because he emerges as a big ignoramus. For example in this article, instead of criticizing Musharraf on being a non-democratic, autocratic dictator, he chooses to criticize him on not cracking down on the Mullah element and what the Mullah holds sacred. In other words as long as the Mullah was cracked down upon, Hoodbuoy would have no problems with a military dictator~ that is his criteria for determining progress based on his stereotypes and nothing else.

Nevermind the fact that such dictatorship ensure that the voice of the people never takes root, political institutions never mature and hense in the scatter of political power among the people, the autocrats in order to strengthen their position will always look to Mullah and religious sentiments for legitimacy because they have come to power inspite of the will of the people. So, for Hoodbuoy as long as his ``enlightened`` version of dictatorship is allowed, everything is fine and dandy, only when he doesn`t agree with those the dictator chooses to appease does he have a problem. Little wonder that in a land where the people have been kept voiceless, even so-called moderate commentators define progress in terms of `forward looking` dictatorship. This person, Hoodbuoy is beyond pathetic, he is overly obsessed with what he understands as ``Islam``, and everything he discusses is colored by his abhorrence of it, as such he loses sight of the real issues that plague Pakistan, one of the effects (not causes) of which is Mullahism.

Dear Pervez,

Congrats on a nice article. However you have not presented any solution. Just problems. Many Pakis already know that the general is not the right candidate for Pakland and they also know that we need to have democracy in the country. Knowing this they look at the long list of political ``leaders`` and hang their heads with shame.

If the available alternates are Bibi and Mian Sahib then I am better off with the general. Looking at the rest of the ``leaders`` who are sitting in the assemblies/parliament as MLAa and MPAs, I hang my head in shame. These leaders refused to even discuss the honor killing issue in the parliament. Ach Thoo. The only two honorable mentions who did want to have the honor killing issue discussed were Jamil Uddin Aali and Sherry Rehman.

So the question is, if the general is gone (sacrificing another C130?) who do you think is capable enough to lead the nation on the right path. I like to hear some names and their backgrounds.

I do not want democracy that comes with corrupt to the core leaders who are sincere to their pockets first and the nation later. On the same note if the nation is lead by Kala Chor and this Kala Chor is leading the nation on right PATH, He/She has my support.
Regards
Asfand Siddiqui
Sacramento CA

All we have to do is to declare Pakistan as a secular state with freedoms for all. Religion, including Islam, should become a deeply personal and sacred issue - not to be dragged through the mud of politics, money, terrorism, and warfare. People usually like to preserve organizations that promote freedom, equality, security, and happiness.
Elementary, but who is going to put the bell around the pussy?

ally, 51

A while back, I wrote an article, Pakistn Under Its Ethnic Shadows,
about the ethnic problems in Pakistan (for which I was much condemned.) If we don`t advance the concept of ``Pakistaniyet,`` Pakistan is doomed.

ally.

i would differ with you. i think ``pakistanieth`` has been very successful one reason being that it has not been shoved down our throat. proof of this is the freedom available to people who do all sort of bukbuk against pakistan. turks would be thrown in jail if they were to express in public, sentiments against the turkish state or if they say anything in favour of the kurds. in a country as diverse as pak, you will always have people who will have a problem with the existence of pak especially those people how lost out from its creation. these people should be left to their own haal as long as they obey the laws of the land. also does not mean that their bakwaas should not be countered in forums such as these. state however should not get involved in the enforcement business as it has done in turkey.

faisal

tho i agree with what you are saying also like to add, Turks have a Turkiyet or a Turkishness to bind them. Pakistaniyet is no where near as strong in Pak as Turkiyet in Turkey.

Whereas becasue we are such a diverse nation, ethnically and religiously, Pakistaniyet should be given importance above all ethnicities and religions, there hasn`t really developed a strong Pakistaniyet that binds ALL of Pak`s people together. Maybe thats something we need to work on.

Most mullahs use the kalma as answer to Pakistan`s mutlab kya? But that, unfortunately has casued more problems, and also automatically excludes our religious minorities. thats not whats going to work, we need something else, what, i dont know.

At the same time UK, is a federation of four diff countries, under one queen, 300 years after the UK came into being, even now there is diff between the people, tho for the most part they get on. So i suppose its an evolution thing thats gonna take time.

Turks had ataturks ideals enforced on them, in this day and age that wouldn`t work esp in Pak, we have to find our own model that works for us.

Re: # 33 by hamidm2 on October 13, 2006 7:22am PT

Hello Hamid:

So the mullah brigade almost got you. Have you ever wondered why is it that mullahs always want a young brain to indoctrinate their values and philosophies?

{you are right : ``The basic grounding is required upto age 10`` ....... i finished the koran at the age of 10 and finished it again at the age of 12 ......... luckily, my early `education` did not cause any permanent damage ........ jazak al-lah khair !}

No wonder then that we get so many fundoos in the Islamic world. And then when they grow up as an adult, we expect these idiots to understand the inner workings of their government.

We are left with the likes of that vibrating-mad-mullah-o-crat around the globe.

Respectfully submitted,

#48 No problem and thanks for clarifying. You are right about Abdus Salam though. His contributions to science are indeed of world class, and it is indeed disgraceful that he is ignored in Pakistan on account of his religious beliefs. That does not lower Abdus Salam`s standing in human history though - it merely lowers Pakistan`s standing as a progressive nation.

Sorry Ahmedbhai,

He`s Abdus Salam, the Nobel Laurate. (Error regretted).

vrv: i never heard of this Dr. Yunus Saleem. and you say he is a Pakistani hero?? who is he??

we should be glad that mush is not following ataturk. most of the changes imposed by ataturk were completely idiotic and did not last beyond his death. turks went along with ataturk because he bought them nijath from gora rule. the only reason secularism has lasted so long is because it has been imposed by the army tauPh. democratically elected leaders who have won popular mandate have been thrown in jail by the army just because their political parties took inspiration from islam.

so why then the fascination gora lovers have for ataturk when in reality turkey has experienced as much turmoil as pakistan has despite the fact that i. ataturk unlike jinnah lived a long time after the founding of the state ii. turkey is mush less diverse than pak is and iii. turkey unlike pak has not had to deal with a hostile neighbour. the answer to the question is found below:

http://lcweb2.loc.gov

``...Atatürk also urged his fellow citizens to look and act like Europeans. Turks were encouraged to wear European-style clothing. Surnames were adopted: Mustafa Kemal, for example, became Kemal Atatürk, and Ismet Pasha took Inönü as his surname to commemorate his victories there. Likewise, Atatürk insisted on cutting links with the past that he considered anachronistic. Titles of honor were abolished. The wearing of the fez, which had been introduced a century earlier as a modernizing reform to replace the turban, was outlawed because it had become for the nationalists a symbol of the reactionary Ottoman regime...``

some of the idiotic changes included:

i. reciting of azan in turkish and as well as public recitation of quran

ii. adaption of latic script

iii. hat law which forbid the wearing of fez

iv. nationalisation of the economy

this is not to say that all reforms were bad. however those sorts of reforms were also implemented in pak.