Musharraf’s Coup - Seven Years Later

Re: # 136

masadi,

.......... as long as you continue to live in the west and accept government cheese, you will never have any credibility ......... unless you are planning to pull off a prank like sheikh abul rehman or mohammed ata it is hard to explain why you continue to live in a society that you obviously loath .......

.......... compared to people like dr hoodbhoy, who chose to forgo a lucrative career in the us, you are a pathetic weasel whose words ring hollow ..........

Re: # 136 by masadi on October 15, 2006 3:01pm PT

Shaitaan-e-Buzorg Khajoor injected rat brained vibrating mullah-o-crat masadi:

Ever since you have joined this chowk all we were told is that west is bad, and west is naked, and west is blah, blah, blah. Like a rickety rack, Karachi rickshaw, you have been trying to convince yourself that you are some sort of a genius. No one has bought into your elite theory, and then you hide behind your dogma. You have a dark and evil soul, and you know that. You want to be enlightened and intellectual at the same time. You double speak constantly, and you have no place to hide. Even your wahabi mentors would be ashamed of you, and your support. Your values stink, and you sound ``oink oink``.

{The ``gullible`` Pakistanis as you call them, can make up their own minds, they can check the facts, think about them and then evaluate if my argument makes sense or not.}

Ever since the 1970`s when the wahabbi money of KSA showed up, Pakistanis have been led astray by the green clad mullah-o-crats to the lala land. One thing after the other showed how gullible Pakistanis are. Most of them were made busy in earning a living and running after catching the buses to no where. They have rickety rack rickshaws and the MQM taught the mohajirs to pee on the streets of Karachi. This is what most Pakistanis started seeing: that mullah-do piyazas of Pakistan were celebrating shab-e-barat and eating halwa and poor folks were chasing fume exhausting buses to reach somewhere.

And in the midst of all this the mafiaso builders were making tons of money at the expense of Karachi`s environment, and the Arabs were hell bent on robbing and stealing Pakistan`s infrastructure. And then, the General writes his book and makes mucho dollars.

And here you blame the west. Now where do you find your rat infested brains? huh!

{They should guard against logical fallacies in the arguments of dimwits like you whose only attachment to the West is the bikini clad blonde they happened to see which had a `case closed` effect on them- people who can think and have transitioned to the level of `human being` from `animal`, unlike you and hamid lcan ook beyond your BS, you both are still stuck with the cave man mentality, the lowest common denominator humans have with animals.}

You are bigot and you know that. You would love to eat that fish smelling blonde if you get it. But, unfortunately for you, with your bakra face, you are just too ugly. You are a hideous person, and you are jealous to the core of your being. By your posts on this chowk you have defiled the pristine religion of those peace loving muslims that I have known. You should be ashamed of your behavior. As far as I know, muslims are not what you make them out to be.

Respectfully submitted,

GT - I think it is certainly possible. Power combination in politics changes very rapidly, and a good canidate, like Manmohan Singh may emerge as a compromise from any location.

So much about who can become what in Pakistan. I wonder whether, in the near future, a muslim could become the prime minister or chief of the army in India. (Yes, i know about air chief marshal Latif and that was indeed great).

#121 by Mantolives on October 15, 2006 9:24am PT


Statistics show it is better to be considered a Non-Muslim in Pakistan than be a Muslim in India...


The statistics show that you only have 3% non-muslims in Pakiland..

And the facts show that India has Azim Premji and Ratan Tata and you have squat...let me repeat that....SQUAT....

Re: # 132 by arjun2:

Actuall Premzi is stale news. There is a multi millionaire in assam, a deoband scholar, who recently started a minority party and was straight away able to win a decent number of assembly seats. This is the guy to watch. I am told that the saffron brigade as well as the congress are quite upset, since he seems to be zeemax like. .... interesting times, huh?

Behram baba-
Stay calm and answer one question - can you or your progeny ever become president, prime minister or army chief in Pakistan? Assume that you have all the qualifications in the world. Why? Our most famous army chief, Field Marshal Manekshaw, was a parsi.

Could Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed have become president of Pakistan (he was president of India)? Or would he have needed to sign declaration that he was not an Ahmedi?

Re: # 130 by friend on October 15, 2006 1:09pm PT

Dear Friend:

{Behram baba-
Stay calm and answer one question - can you or your progeny ever become president, prime minister or army chief in Pakistan? Assume that you have all the qualifications in the world. Why? Our most famous army chief, Field Marshal Manekshaw, was a parsi.}

In today`s Pakistan, the answer would definitely be NO. However, when Pakistan was created and right up to the mid 1950`s, Karachi`s mayor was Nusserwanjee Mehta, and Pakistan`s first constitution was written by Justice Cornelius.

As for serving in the military is concerned Parsees have much better opportunity commercially, and we seldom find them in any bureaucracy. Most Parsees are still better equipped for Banks and secretarial jobs. Rarely did I hear Parsees serving in the military. Parsees in Pakistan mostly reside in Karachi, and are highly intellectual types. They can not be fooled in serving a military.

I hope I have answered your question.

Being a hindoo from India, I can understand your hatred towards the largest religious minority amongst you. Muslims are over 150 million amongst you and India incessantly brags about how democratic their country is, blah, blah, blah, etc.

Is that all you guys can do? Brag about a onesy twosy minority here and there. Are you not ashamed of yourself? and the hateful society that you have created. Squatting on railroad tracks can gain western sympathy for so long, but it is only a matter of time when hindoo hate mongers would be identified amongst most enlightened westerners. And you will not be able to hide behind ``O! it is Pakistan that is making us do what we do?``

Now, shoo away, back to your squatting position on those railroad tracks.

Respectfully submitted,

Manto munna #121

``one wonders why there aren`t any Nobel Prize winners amongst Indian Muslims (including Ahmadis)... when there is one each for the equivalent in Pakistan and Bangladesh? ``

Well well!! now equal opportunity implies that 33% of noble prize awarded to indian scientists must be to muslims. Great logic.

33% of Indian presidents have been muslims. Let Pakistan make 33% of its Pakistan non-muslims.

GT,

...... thanks for your informative posts .......

Group lending is a delicate mechanism and is not very easy to implement. The first documented success was in Germany in the beginning of the last century. The Grameen Bank is a success. But initially it was bailed out several times by the world bank. The bank took this as their pet project in their missionary zeal to induce ``development`` in poor countries. Yunus was projected as a hero. At least a part of it was/is political. The grameen bank today is a far cry from the grameen bank of the past. Moreover attempts to replicate it without subsidies have failed in Chile, Chicago and almost everywhere else.

I also do not understand how the metric of welfare at micro and macro are different. Without any clear cut understanding of this issue, these are nothing but bombastic statements which play to the galleries. The grameen bank has improved the welfare of poor people in Bangladesh. This is a great achievement. Hence, it along with Yunus deserves the Nobel.

Difference between rotating credit and group lending.

Rotating credit increases utility by getting rid of indivisibilities. Group lending facilitates credit by converting group reputation into collateral.

Rotating credit: There are 4 people each of whom want to buy a refrigerator which costs $800. Each of them can save only $200 per month. Left to the individual all four have to wait for four months to buy the refrigerator. Now let them put $200 into a pool for four months. A person is chosen at random and offered $800 every month. Note now that 1 person waits for 1 month another for 2 etc. To the extent that people discount future comsumption, aggregate utility goes up.

Group Lending: Consider an investor who needs credit to fund a project with a good or bad stochastic outcome which can be observed by both the investor and the creditor ex-post. In such cases credit is offered with a risk premium as long as the net surplus is positive. In the case of a lbad outcome the creditor gets nothing and hence the risk premium. Now suppose that the outcome is not observable by the creditor, in this case to avoid loan payment the investor will always announce the bad state. Knowing this the creditor will not offer credit. To get over this problem creditors demand a collateral which will be confisticated if the loan is not paid. The problem is that the poor, who need credit the most, do not have collateral and as a result do not get credit. To overcome this problem, individual credit is given to a socially close group who can monitor the outcome of each others performance. Credit is also given in tranches and in case of default the entire group is excluded from future credit. Note that it is in the interest of the group to provide cross insurance if there is default and to socially ostracize a person who defaults when the outcome is good. This social penalty now acts as the required collateral.

Mr. Yunus had no chance of winning Nobel Peace prize if BanglaDesh would have
continued to be part of Pakistan. There would have been a very high chance
he would have been killed by uncounth and murderous west Pakistani army by now.
Thanks to Indira Gandhi and Hindus, a Bangaladeshi muslim today could earn a
Nobel Peace prize.

Mantolives #107 {``How many Indian Muslims or Ahmadis won Nobel Prizes... despite Sadna`s fudged inconclusive statistics? ``}

Manto Bhai,
I can understand your haste to counter the illogical points and illiterate stance of your primary adversary. I do not, however, agree with your description of Indian Muslims` ability to gain international recognition, which we all know is based on presenting a certain acceptable image to the west. Nobel prizes and Hollywood movies are all bestowed to reward and promote a certain condescending viewpoint that satisfies western disdain for Muslims. Begin and Sadat won the Nobel ``Peace` Prize despite the fact that both were unrepentant former terrorists.

A. Q. Khan, a scientist of Indian Muslim origin, would certainly have had a couple of Hollywood thrillers and some other recognition had he been a Jew achieving great things for the ``defense`` of Israel. Come on, you are capable of much better logic.

Re: # 122

Salim bhai:

``A. Q. Khan, a scientist of Indian Muslim origin, would certainly have had a couple of Hollywood thrillers and some other recognition had he been a Jew achieving great things for the ``defense`` of Israel. Come on, you are capable of much better logic. ``

Your logic is correct, however your implication. Hollywood, like anyother enterprise caters to the market. I am sure, if Hollywood were is Saudi Arabia .... . Whatever you will fill in the blanks I will agree with you. More important question is why must muslims see it through muslim colored glasses.

Both You and Yasser must try to eliminate Islam as the factor in equations you use in economic analysis. Both of you will come up with real answers that will allow developing real arguments and real solutions.

Anil

Re: # 128

Anil -

[Both You and Yasser must try to eliminate Islam as the factor in equations you use in economic analysis. Both of you will come up with real answers that will allow developing real arguments and real solutions. ]

For a certain reason, they cannot. You are missing a point. For some or I should say for many, religion is the way of life and that includes everything under the sun. So some interactors will keep that in perspective either due to their own staunch belief or based on what the environment dictates. Everyone has a very different need when they look at a religion. It is not only limited to spiritual or emotional strength or someone to pray to. It encompasses a lot more.

I do not disagree with your stance, but when it comes to muslim societies you cannot make sweeping assessments or statements with the hope that by turning the switch on the light bulb will resolve the darkness. It`s a very different mindset. In general, ``traditional`` Muslims are not the only ones who appraoch life in this manner. I have a few Korean friends and it amazes me to see their involvement in the local church (always a Korean church). My friend outside of work has only her church activities on her agenda.