Muslims ‘Unveiled’
Asif Naqshbandi October 15, 2006
#151 Posted by hamidm2 on October 17, 2006 7:57:37 am
Re: # 147
GT,
don`t worry, i am not ``that guy``! .... even though my liver and mrs hamidm would be relieved if i became that guy ...... but then the girls would hate me because i would be like all those other uncles who are like, like so `freeeking weird` ...........
p.s for ramadhan i did give up the gin in my tonic and had to make do with martinis - it is hell being a muslim !
GT,
don`t worry, i am not ``that guy``! .... even though my liver and mrs hamidm would be relieved if i became that guy ...... but then the girls would hate me because i would be like all those other uncles who are like, like so `freeeking weird` ...........
p.s for ramadhan i did give up the gin in my tonic and had to make do with martinis - it is hell being a muslim !
reply to this interact
write a new interact
add to favorites
flag objectionable content
#150 Posted by ballukhan on October 17, 2006 7:55:54 am
These basta2rd mullahs deserve all the daisy cutters for everything that they have been planning to do by trying to turn the world as a slave running empire with divine rights to pimp ...................................
``The attack left her a widow and homeless -- her home was razed to the ground.
With people refusing to give her even household chores because they were afraid of the Taliban, she had no other option but to beg. But as more women turned to begging because of the worsening economic condition, it was not long before begging proved a futile exercise. She resisted entering prostitution until her son became seriously ill with malaria.
Amidst uncontrollable sobbing, she said: ``Most of the customers were Taliban. They paid between 10,000-20,000 Afghan (the equivalent of about 25-50 US cents). For younger or very beautiful women they paid more. Sometimes they (the customers) would get what they wanted and not pay. If any woman dared complain, the men would threaten her with exposure, saying that they would tell everyone that she was an adulterer, and thereafter she would be subjected to death by stoning. We could do nothing against them.``
The rest of the account narrates the methodology and the devious ways the Taliban customers employed in slipping into their houses. These `houses` operated in great secrecy, and moved frequently.
When the film-maker expressed surprise that the Taliban should patronise prostitution, Shazia said, ``They only pretend to be Muslim. If they were really interested in Islam they would have stopped us. It would be impossible for us to operate without their knowledge.`` ``
``The attack left her a widow and homeless -- her home was razed to the ground.
With people refusing to give her even household chores because they were afraid of the Taliban, she had no other option but to beg. But as more women turned to begging because of the worsening economic condition, it was not long before begging proved a futile exercise. She resisted entering prostitution until her son became seriously ill with malaria.
Amidst uncontrollable sobbing, she said: ``Most of the customers were Taliban. They paid between 10,000-20,000 Afghan (the equivalent of about 25-50 US cents). For younger or very beautiful women they paid more. Sometimes they (the customers) would get what they wanted and not pay. If any woman dared complain, the men would threaten her with exposure, saying that they would tell everyone that she was an adulterer, and thereafter she would be subjected to death by stoning. We could do nothing against them.``
The rest of the account narrates the methodology and the devious ways the Taliban customers employed in slipping into their houses. These `houses` operated in great secrecy, and moved frequently.
When the film-maker expressed surprise that the Taliban should patronise prostitution, Shazia said, ``They only pretend to be Muslim. If they were really interested in Islam they would have stopped us. It would be impossible for us to operate without their knowledge.`` ``
#149 Posted by tahmed32 on October 17, 2006 7:52:46 am
#139 My hair stood at end as I read your ``Tales from the Crypt`` (women waddling about in abayas, men belching and picking on their beards and so forth). :-)
Mullahism is indeed widespread. Let me add a couple of tales myself: I see a man with beard the size of a small umbrella come up to me at a wedding party in Pakistan and realize with horror that this is a distant cousin whom I had last seen as a normal person. I joke about his beard by saying ``aao ji maulana sahab``, and the man turns deadly serious and says ``bhai jaan, aesee cheesoN kaa mazaak na karaiN``. And this was a man who took nothing seriously last time I saw him. But then - there are many other cousins who are not much different from previous generations. They will say their prayers regularly (or in some cases, irregularly) like the previous generations, but dont feel the need to make God happy (actually, doing God`s bidding as indicated in teh Quran is clearly the last thing on the mind of the maulvi, and beards are sported to flaunt themselves before other people) by sporting beards and dont have dars and other pagan rituals in their homes.
And this disease of course, as I said, afflicts some expatriates too. I could add this other fellow I know who took his daughter out of school and taught her at home. Turned a room in his house into a masjid. And is currently fighting tooth and nail with another group for control of a mosque in the area.
So, I am well aware of how widespread this disease is in Pakistan. But, like I said, these are a small fraction of the elite Pakistanis only. The poor are too busy keeping body and soul together, and most of the well off are busy working.
Why you seek the company of drinking hindu men i dont understand.
Mullahism is indeed widespread. Let me add a couple of tales myself: I see a man with beard the size of a small umbrella come up to me at a wedding party in Pakistan and realize with horror that this is a distant cousin whom I had last seen as a normal person. I joke about his beard by saying ``aao ji maulana sahab``, and the man turns deadly serious and says ``bhai jaan, aesee cheesoN kaa mazaak na karaiN``. And this was a man who took nothing seriously last time I saw him. But then - there are many other cousins who are not much different from previous generations. They will say their prayers regularly (or in some cases, irregularly) like the previous generations, but dont feel the need to make God happy (actually, doing God`s bidding as indicated in teh Quran is clearly the last thing on the mind of the maulvi, and beards are sported to flaunt themselves before other people) by sporting beards and dont have dars and other pagan rituals in their homes.
And this disease of course, as I said, afflicts some expatriates too. I could add this other fellow I know who took his daughter out of school and taught her at home. Turned a room in his house into a masjid. And is currently fighting tooth and nail with another group for control of a mosque in the area.
So, I am well aware of how widespread this disease is in Pakistan. But, like I said, these are a small fraction of the elite Pakistanis only. The poor are too busy keeping body and soul together, and most of the well off are busy working.
Why you seek the company of drinking hindu men i dont understand.
#148 Posted by ballukhan on October 17, 2006 7:49:40 am
Taliban was infact one of the major pimps in the region to spread prostitution, rape, slavery amongst women folk in Afghanistan..................only idiots would praise those unkempt dangerous mullahs.......
Heaping indignities on Afghan women
Rasheeda Bhagat
IN MARCH 2000, while the Taliban was mouthing Islamic edicts and forcing women to give up jobs, even denying them basic rights to health care and hiding them behind the veil, a UN report accused the radical Islamic regime of violating women`s rights with ``unabated severity``. Included in this investigation was the charge of mass abductions of women and forced prostitution.
In this context the report cited testimony from refugees about the large-scale abduction of women and girls by the militia of the ruling Taliban in the fighting that went on the previous year in northern and central Afghanistan.
The UN rapporteur, Mr Kamal Hossain, provided testimony about ethnic Hazara and Tajik women being rounded up in trucks and taken to either the Taliban stronghold Kandahar, or Pakistan. An AFP report quoted him as saying, ``Many suspect that women and girls end up forced into prostitution,`` adding that there were instances of women having been killed and maimed trying to escape.
Women from the Kabul, Mazar-e-Sharif and Shamali regions also gave accounts of forced marriages to Taliban members, it said. ``When families refuse, they take the women and girls away by force,`` it said, adding that many families in Shamali had sent their daughters away to avoid such a fate. The UN report said that the regime continued to deny women access to education, health and employment and quoted refugees relating stories ``of the abduction of women, rape, infliction of the punishment of stoning, lashing and other forms of inhuman punishment.``
Mr Hossain`s report was based on several visits to Afghanistan and Pakistan, where he interviewed refugees who fled between 1998 and 1999.
What was even more shocking was the UN rapporteur`s evidence that non-Afghans, including Pakistanis and Arabs, fighting alongside the Taliban, were involved in abusing women.
A few days after the UN made the report public, the Taliban rejected it. The Pakistani English daily The News quoted the Taliban Foreign Minister, Mulla Wakil Ahmad Mutawwakil, as not only questioning the methodology of the research but also described Mr Hossain as ``an ignorant and incompetent man who is working solely for money``.
The Taliban minister added grandly that the human rights issue had been ``turned into a business`` by people such as Mr Hossein. ``Where is the proof that Taliban have abducted women or forced them into prostitution?``
On June 22, a Deutsche Presse Agentur report said that the misery caused by drought and conflict had brought the bride price down in northern Afghanistan. Families in provinces such as Balkh and Baghlan were having a hard time finding enough to eat and are ``giving away their daughters at greatly reduced bride prices and at a young age,`` according to a statement from the UN Coordinator for Afghanistan`s office. ``Some of these families have coped as long as they can. Now, they are simply at the end of their rope,`` it added.
On February 22, the Taliban hanged two prostitutes at its Kandahar headquarters before a gathering of 1,000 people. The two were charged with ``corrupting society``, and were doled out the Taliban`s brand of justice with their faces hidden behind the all-encompassing burqa.
The Taliban`s radio network, proudly announced the announcing the execution and that two other women were publicly lashed for adultery. While one was sentenced to a 10-year term in prison, the other got two years.
If all this is not enough, here is the latest evidence collected by a Los Angeles film-maker, Ms Meena Nanji, whose report has been circulating on the e-mail circuit following the terror attacks in the US. It relates the story of Shazia, a refugee in a Pakistani camp, who was forced to become a prostitute thanks to the Taliban`s un-Islamic that forced Afghan women to lead sub-human lives.
Titled The Taliban pay just 25 US cents for prostitutes, it tells how the Taliban`s edict of prohibiting women from working forced most of them first into begging and later into prostitution -- when there were too many female beggars and too little food to go around.
``Thousands of widows had to resort to begging on the streets, hitherto virtually unknown in Kabul, and considered to be deeply shameful. For the first time it became common to see rows of burqa-clad women sitting on the streets, young children clustered around them, anxious for anything that might fall their way.
``I learned this while I was in Peshawar recently, researching a documentary on Afghan refugees. Many of the women I interviewed, told me about the desperate conditions that existed in Kabul, and about the unfathomably deep psychological and physical abuses that the Taliban inflicted upon the population, especially women. Eventually they also told me about how widespread prostitution had become in Kabul. Because begging brought in little, if any income, I was not surprised to hear this.
``For many women, prostitution was their only option other than suicide, which thousands of women have chosen, rather than live under present conditions in Afghanistan. I was surprised to hear, however, assertions that the Taliban themselves were frequent customers of prostitutes, this being highly contradictory to the Islamic principles that they claim to represent: Islam expressly forbids any trade in humans whether it is slavery or prostitution,`` runs the account.
After great difficulty Ms Nanji managed to find a woman who gave her a first-hand account, which was videotaped, of how the Taliban were the most frequent customers of women who were forced into prostitution.
Dressed in a green burqa, which covered her from head to toe, Shazia (a pseudonym) was about 37 and from Kabul. She had been in Pakistan for about 18 months with her three children, for whose sake she had decided against committing suicide and yielded to prostitution. A graduate and a teacher, she lost her husband in a rocket attack when she was not at home.
The attack left her a widow and homeless -- her home was razed to the ground.
With people refusing to give her even household chores because they were afraid of the Taliban, she had no other option but to beg. But as more women turned to begging because of the worsening economic condition, it was not long before begging proved a futile exercise. She resisted entering prostitution until her son became seriously ill with malaria.
Amidst uncontrollable sobbing, she said: ``Most of the customers were Taliban. They paid between 10,000-20,000 Afghan (the equivalent of about 25-50 US cents). For younger or very beautiful women they paid more. Sometimes they (the customers) would get what they wanted and not pay. If any woman dared complain, the men would threaten her with exposure, saying that they would tell everyone that she was an adulterer, and thereafter she would be subjected to death by stoning. We could do nothing against them.``
The rest of the account narrates the methodology and the devious ways the Taliban customers employed in slipping into their houses. These `houses` operated in great secrecy, and moved frequently.
When the film-maker expressed surprise that the Taliban should patronise prostitution, Shazia said, ``They only pretend to be Muslim. If they were really interested in Islam they would have stopped us. It would be impossible for us to operate without their knowledge.``
While this liaison was extremely dangerous for the woman, Shazia said that for the Taliban customer the encounter was very safe. ``Even if he did not pay, there was nothing the woman could do. Who could she complain to? Even if he beat her or raped her, she could do nothing. Beatings were common, and in the case of rape, a woman was never believed. It was believed that if she was raped she must have done something to provoke it. I have heard of many stories of rape and beatings by the Taliban.``
With so many different accounts of the Taliban`s atrocities against Afghan women, the one conclusion one can safely make is that Islam certainly does not need the Taliban`s brand of jehadis.
Responses can be sent to rasheeda@thehindu.co.in
Related links:
The politics of terrorism
Heaping indignities on Afghan women
Rasheeda Bhagat
IN MARCH 2000, while the Taliban was mouthing Islamic edicts and forcing women to give up jobs, even denying them basic rights to health care and hiding them behind the veil, a UN report accused the radical Islamic regime of violating women`s rights with ``unabated severity``. Included in this investigation was the charge of mass abductions of women and forced prostitution.
In this context the report cited testimony from refugees about the large-scale abduction of women and girls by the militia of the ruling Taliban in the fighting that went on the previous year in northern and central Afghanistan.
The UN rapporteur, Mr Kamal Hossain, provided testimony about ethnic Hazara and Tajik women being rounded up in trucks and taken to either the Taliban stronghold Kandahar, or Pakistan. An AFP report quoted him as saying, ``Many suspect that women and girls end up forced into prostitution,`` adding that there were instances of women having been killed and maimed trying to escape.
Women from the Kabul, Mazar-e-Sharif and Shamali regions also gave accounts of forced marriages to Taliban members, it said. ``When families refuse, they take the women and girls away by force,`` it said, adding that many families in Shamali had sent their daughters away to avoid such a fate. The UN report said that the regime continued to deny women access to education, health and employment and quoted refugees relating stories ``of the abduction of women, rape, infliction of the punishment of stoning, lashing and other forms of inhuman punishment.``
Mr Hossain`s report was based on several visits to Afghanistan and Pakistan, where he interviewed refugees who fled between 1998 and 1999.
What was even more shocking was the UN rapporteur`s evidence that non-Afghans, including Pakistanis and Arabs, fighting alongside the Taliban, were involved in abusing women.
A few days after the UN made the report public, the Taliban rejected it. The Pakistani English daily The News quoted the Taliban Foreign Minister, Mulla Wakil Ahmad Mutawwakil, as not only questioning the methodology of the research but also described Mr Hossain as ``an ignorant and incompetent man who is working solely for money``.
The Taliban minister added grandly that the human rights issue had been ``turned into a business`` by people such as Mr Hossein. ``Where is the proof that Taliban have abducted women or forced them into prostitution?``
On June 22, a Deutsche Presse Agentur report said that the misery caused by drought and conflict had brought the bride price down in northern Afghanistan. Families in provinces such as Balkh and Baghlan were having a hard time finding enough to eat and are ``giving away their daughters at greatly reduced bride prices and at a young age,`` according to a statement from the UN Coordinator for Afghanistan`s office. ``Some of these families have coped as long as they can. Now, they are simply at the end of their rope,`` it added.
On February 22, the Taliban hanged two prostitutes at its Kandahar headquarters before a gathering of 1,000 people. The two were charged with ``corrupting society``, and were doled out the Taliban`s brand of justice with their faces hidden behind the all-encompassing burqa.
The Taliban`s radio network, proudly announced the announcing the execution and that two other women were publicly lashed for adultery. While one was sentenced to a 10-year term in prison, the other got two years.
If all this is not enough, here is the latest evidence collected by a Los Angeles film-maker, Ms Meena Nanji, whose report has been circulating on the e-mail circuit following the terror attacks in the US. It relates the story of Shazia, a refugee in a Pakistani camp, who was forced to become a prostitute thanks to the Taliban`s un-Islamic that forced Afghan women to lead sub-human lives.
Titled The Taliban pay just 25 US cents for prostitutes, it tells how the Taliban`s edict of prohibiting women from working forced most of them first into begging and later into prostitution -- when there were too many female beggars and too little food to go around.
``Thousands of widows had to resort to begging on the streets, hitherto virtually unknown in Kabul, and considered to be deeply shameful. For the first time it became common to see rows of burqa-clad women sitting on the streets, young children clustered around them, anxious for anything that might fall their way.
``I learned this while I was in Peshawar recently, researching a documentary on Afghan refugees. Many of the women I interviewed, told me about the desperate conditions that existed in Kabul, and about the unfathomably deep psychological and physical abuses that the Taliban inflicted upon the population, especially women. Eventually they also told me about how widespread prostitution had become in Kabul. Because begging brought in little, if any income, I was not surprised to hear this.
``For many women, prostitution was their only option other than suicide, which thousands of women have chosen, rather than live under present conditions in Afghanistan. I was surprised to hear, however, assertions that the Taliban themselves were frequent customers of prostitutes, this being highly contradictory to the Islamic principles that they claim to represent: Islam expressly forbids any trade in humans whether it is slavery or prostitution,`` runs the account.
After great difficulty Ms Nanji managed to find a woman who gave her a first-hand account, which was videotaped, of how the Taliban were the most frequent customers of women who were forced into prostitution.
Dressed in a green burqa, which covered her from head to toe, Shazia (a pseudonym) was about 37 and from Kabul. She had been in Pakistan for about 18 months with her three children, for whose sake she had decided against committing suicide and yielded to prostitution. A graduate and a teacher, she lost her husband in a rocket attack when she was not at home.
The attack left her a widow and homeless -- her home was razed to the ground.
With people refusing to give her even household chores because they were afraid of the Taliban, she had no other option but to beg. But as more women turned to begging because of the worsening economic condition, it was not long before begging proved a futile exercise. She resisted entering prostitution until her son became seriously ill with malaria.
Amidst uncontrollable sobbing, she said: ``Most of the customers were Taliban. They paid between 10,000-20,000 Afghan (the equivalent of about 25-50 US cents). For younger or very beautiful women they paid more. Sometimes they (the customers) would get what they wanted and not pay. If any woman dared complain, the men would threaten her with exposure, saying that they would tell everyone that she was an adulterer, and thereafter she would be subjected to death by stoning. We could do nothing against them.``
The rest of the account narrates the methodology and the devious ways the Taliban customers employed in slipping into their houses. These `houses` operated in great secrecy, and moved frequently.
When the film-maker expressed surprise that the Taliban should patronise prostitution, Shazia said, ``They only pretend to be Muslim. If they were really interested in Islam they would have stopped us. It would be impossible for us to operate without their knowledge.``
While this liaison was extremely dangerous for the woman, Shazia said that for the Taliban customer the encounter was very safe. ``Even if he did not pay, there was nothing the woman could do. Who could she complain to? Even if he beat her or raped her, she could do nothing. Beatings were common, and in the case of rape, a woman was never believed. It was believed that if she was raped she must have done something to provoke it. I have heard of many stories of rape and beatings by the Taliban.``
With so many different accounts of the Taliban`s atrocities against Afghan women, the one conclusion one can safely make is that Islam certainly does not need the Taliban`s brand of jehadis.
Responses can be sent to rasheeda@thehindu.co.in
Related links:
The politics of terrorism
#147 Posted by GT on October 17, 2006 7:37:18 am
Re: # 139 by hamidm2:
I am very suspicious, you write:
``........ god forbid, it is not that i like hindoos or anything - it is because you can`t find a good muslim who drinks any more - and i have photographic proof that a lot of them were fine enophiles just fifteen years ago .........``
Let me tell you why I am suspicious. I have this Pakistani friend for the last 10 years. He was, to say the least, ``very colourful`` till around three years back. He would often drop by for a couple of drinks. He never bought the booze, but his stories (exploits) would compensate. Three years back he got religious, grew a beard and started going to the local Islamic center, which also is a mosque. He drops by regularly but does not drink anymore. At times he cooks biriyani in my place and I do thank the BIG BOY above for this. His stories are very boring now. Someday I would like to tell his story to all of you here. But before I do so, I got to ask you something. ARE YOU THIS GUY?
I am very suspicious, you write:
``........ god forbid, it is not that i like hindoos or anything - it is because you can`t find a good muslim who drinks any more - and i have photographic proof that a lot of them were fine enophiles just fifteen years ago .........``
Let me tell you why I am suspicious. I have this Pakistani friend for the last 10 years. He was, to say the least, ``very colourful`` till around three years back. He would often drop by for a couple of drinks. He never bought the booze, but his stories (exploits) would compensate. Three years back he got religious, grew a beard and started going to the local Islamic center, which also is a mosque. He drops by regularly but does not drink anymore. At times he cooks biriyani in my place and I do thank the BIG BOY above for this. His stories are very boring now. Someday I would like to tell his story to all of you here. But before I do so, I got to ask you something. ARE YOU THIS GUY?
#146 Posted by PM on October 17, 2006 6:33:23 am
Zee:
``If they had been vain or egotistic, they would have tried to hang on in Kabul and been destroyed. They knew better of-course.``
I said egotistical, not stupid. :)
``If they had been vain or egotistic, they would have tried to hang on in Kabul and been destroyed. They knew better of-course.``
I said egotistical, not stupid. :)
#145 Posted by zeemax on October 17, 2006 6:25:35 am
PM,
......governer of Khandahar was based solely on his predeliction -- common as it was through the traditions of that part of the region. Was there another angle to it, or was it perhaps that the Governer took the taboo step of declaring `marriage`?
Absolutely. The social ill was always there, and probably still is, but that`s exactly what it remains ... i.e. a social ill. The Governor`s openly declaring this `marriage` was granting legitimacy to the practice as well as promoting it. Taliban rebelled against that.
As for your ego claim, PM, I still dispute that. Taliban never fought the US/Northern Alliance invasion. They just withdrew back into the mountains and abandoned power for the time being. If they had been vain or egotistic, they would have tried to hang on in Kabul and been destroyed. They knew better of-course.
......governer of Khandahar was based solely on his predeliction -- common as it was through the traditions of that part of the region. Was there another angle to it, or was it perhaps that the Governer took the taboo step of declaring `marriage`?
Absolutely. The social ill was always there, and probably still is, but that`s exactly what it remains ... i.e. a social ill. The Governor`s openly declaring this `marriage` was granting legitimacy to the practice as well as promoting it. Taliban rebelled against that.
As for your ego claim, PM, I still dispute that. Taliban never fought the US/Northern Alliance invasion. They just withdrew back into the mountains and abandoned power for the time being. If they had been vain or egotistic, they would have tried to hang on in Kabul and been destroyed. They knew better of-course.
#144 Posted by Behram1 on October 17, 2006 6:09:00 am
Re: # 139 by hamidm2 on October 17, 2006 5:16am PT
Dear Hamid:
You ask rhetorically {why do you think all my drinking buddies are hindoos ? ........ god forbid, it is not that i like hindoos or anything - }
Could you get shaitaan-e-buzorg vibrating mad-mullah masadi as your drinking buddy?
Respectfully submitted,
Dear Hamid:
You ask rhetorically {why do you think all my drinking buddies are hindoos ? ........ god forbid, it is not that i like hindoos or anything - }
Could you get shaitaan-e-buzorg vibrating mad-mullah masadi as your drinking buddy?
Respectfully submitted,
#143 Posted by PM on October 17, 2006 6:06:21 am
Zeemax #136:
Zee, thanks for that detailed and informative post. It`s useful to be reminded that one should not believe everything one reads in the papers (or hears in the news). So thanks again....
Just as an aside, while I can understand the talibaan`s horror at the prevalance of (female) prostitution, it`s difficult to imagine that their opposition to the governer of Khandahar was based solely on his predeliction -- common as it was through the traditions of that part of the region. Was there another angle to it, or was it perhaps that the Governer took the taboo step of declaring `marriage`?
And while I certainly have a better understanding of the background in which the strictures were enforced, I am inclined to stick to the claim that ego does play a role. It has nothing to do with material acquistion, though. Power is the ultimate ego-inflater, is it not?
khair.. that argument is more academic than germane now...
Zee, thanks for that detailed and informative post. It`s useful to be reminded that one should not believe everything one reads in the papers (or hears in the news). So thanks again....
Just as an aside, while I can understand the talibaan`s horror at the prevalance of (female) prostitution, it`s difficult to imagine that their opposition to the governer of Khandahar was based solely on his predeliction -- common as it was through the traditions of that part of the region. Was there another angle to it, or was it perhaps that the Governer took the taboo step of declaring `marriage`?
And while I certainly have a better understanding of the background in which the strictures were enforced, I am inclined to stick to the claim that ego does play a role. It has nothing to do with material acquistion, though. Power is the ultimate ego-inflater, is it not?
khair.. that argument is more academic than germane now...
#142 Posted by zeemax on October 17, 2006 6:06:10 am
I`m a great fan of Mrs. Hamidm ... pity she`s afflicted too with what Mr. Hamidm terms a disease .. My dear Hamidm are you doing something about that affliction to our beloved Mrs. Hamidm?
#141 Posted by KaalChakra on October 17, 2006 6:02:29 am
boom sahib
You may be overplaying the Hindoo card.
Whether or not the ``hatred of Hindoos`` is sufficient to bring any meaning to Islam or any purpose to Pakistan, Hindus generally are appreciative of hamdim2 contributions.
Remember, we don`t have to be all alike or `one nation` to stay together or appreciate others. :)
You may be overplaying the Hindoo card.
Whether or not the ``hatred of Hindoos`` is sufficient to bring any meaning to Islam or any purpose to Pakistan, Hindus generally are appreciative of hamdim2 contributions.
Remember, we don`t have to be all alike or `one nation` to stay together or appreciate others. :)
#140 Posted by echoboom on October 17, 2006 5:42:23 am
#139 by hamidm2
HaaH Haa Haah.
You know you have this ``everybody loves Raymond`` quality in you.......and who knows , behind the cyber-burqua, you might be pulling everyones bare-legs , chotis, kaises or darRhees.
Whenever you WUI ( DUI?) you serve the Ummah well. Allah indeed has found unique ways to guide lost sheep back into the fold...even if takes to sacrifice one to save many!
You remind me of the gora retired commissioner in our colony (yes Pakistan) who used to eat Maash kee daal and peas with knjfe & fork in full dinner jacket at 7PM sharp when the butler rang the dinner bell. The chota Haazri (afternoon tea) and the chota-peg stuff we learned about , only when he was gone, from the khansaamas.
You remind me of the hash-brownie version of that goraa-saab but your hatred for the hindoos would put any terrorist of any calibre to shame. I`ve noticed that the guys west of Jhelum get really really upset when it comes to hindoo...even the commie NAP types who bleed for all on two legs bristle & turn turnip whenever hindoos are mentioned.
This guy ( well known) made a movie and got an International Award but when I suggested that I can arrange to get his movie exhibited at a theatre at much more reasonable rent, he completely refused `` Jee meiN kisi Hindoo kay theatre meiN film kyooN chalaaooN``..& so it is still in the boxes.
HaaH Haa Haah.
You know you have this ``everybody loves Raymond`` quality in you.......and who knows , behind the cyber-burqua, you might be pulling everyones bare-legs , chotis, kaises or darRhees.
Whenever you WUI ( DUI?) you serve the Ummah well. Allah indeed has found unique ways to guide lost sheep back into the fold...even if takes to sacrifice one to save many!
You remind me of the gora retired commissioner in our colony (yes Pakistan) who used to eat Maash kee daal and peas with knjfe & fork in full dinner jacket at 7PM sharp when the butler rang the dinner bell. The chota Haazri (afternoon tea) and the chota-peg stuff we learned about , only when he was gone, from the khansaamas.
You remind me of the hash-brownie version of that goraa-saab but your hatred for the hindoos would put any terrorist of any calibre to shame. I`ve noticed that the guys west of Jhelum get really really upset when it comes to hindoo...even the commie NAP types who bleed for all on two legs bristle & turn turnip whenever hindoos are mentioned.
This guy ( well known) made a movie and got an International Award but when I suggested that I can arrange to get his movie exhibited at a theatre at much more reasonable rent, he completely refused `` Jee meiN kisi Hindoo kay theatre meiN film kyooN chalaaooN``..& so it is still in the boxes.
#139 Posted by hamidm2 on October 17, 2006 5:16:45 am
Re: # 123
tahmed,
......... i wish you were right, but the disease is widespread both in the west and back in pakistan and it continues to spread - it is the islamic equivalent of hiv .......... the ummah has full blown aids !
.......... i have seen many among my own family and friends regress steadily over the past decade or so ......... i know a lot - dozens - of women who were perectly normal ten fiifteen years ago but now waddle around around in abayas while their husbands pick rice from their beards and belch loudly just so that they can show off their arabic ............ i even know a surgeon who recently sold off his furniture and forces his guests to sit on the floor in the `islamic` manner - i claim that the man went off his rocker because he found out that his son is gay, mrs hamidm thinks i am being mean ............
........... a friend`s son grew a beard and quit medical school because he thought working with women was haram - i think he is gay, mrs hamidm thinks i am mean !
.........my sister pulled her daughter out of nust and sent her to fatima jinnah women`s university because according to her, co-eduction is unislamic - i continue to remind her that she would still be single if she hadn`t gone to a co-ed med school where she chased and snared her poor husband ........... i told her to loose a few pounds to cure her of the disease, mrs hamidm thinks i am being mean ..........
............ mrs hamidm has been ostracized by many of her `friends` because our daughter has white room mates in college and lives in a co-ed dorm - she thinks that their daughters are hijabi lesbians and i agree !
............... and i could go on and on .......... why do you think all my drinking buddies are hindoos ? ........ god forbid, it is not that i like hindoos or anything - it is because you can`t find a good muslim who drinks any more - and i have photographic proof that a lot of them were fine enophiles just fifteen years ago ......... i ask them, ``what happened?`` ........... they mumble something in arabic which i don`t understand ......... hiv is higly contagious
tahmed,
......... i wish you were right, but the disease is widespread both in the west and back in pakistan and it continues to spread - it is the islamic equivalent of hiv .......... the ummah has full blown aids !
.......... i have seen many among my own family and friends regress steadily over the past decade or so ......... i know a lot - dozens - of women who were perectly normal ten fiifteen years ago but now waddle around around in abayas while their husbands pick rice from their beards and belch loudly just so that they can show off their arabic ............ i even know a surgeon who recently sold off his furniture and forces his guests to sit on the floor in the `islamic` manner - i claim that the man went off his rocker because he found out that his son is gay, mrs hamidm thinks i am being mean ............
........... a friend`s son grew a beard and quit medical school because he thought working with women was haram - i think he is gay, mrs hamidm thinks i am mean !
.........my sister pulled her daughter out of nust and sent her to fatima jinnah women`s university because according to her, co-eduction is unislamic - i continue to remind her that she would still be single if she hadn`t gone to a co-ed med school where she chased and snared her poor husband ........... i told her to loose a few pounds to cure her of the disease, mrs hamidm thinks i am being mean ..........
............ mrs hamidm has been ostracized by many of her `friends` because our daughter has white room mates in college and lives in a co-ed dorm - she thinks that their daughters are hijabi lesbians and i agree !
............... and i could go on and on .......... why do you think all my drinking buddies are hindoos ? ........ god forbid, it is not that i like hindoos or anything - it is because you can`t find a good muslim who drinks any more - and i have photographic proof that a lot of them were fine enophiles just fifteen years ago ......... i ask them, ``what happened?`` ........... they mumble something in arabic which i don`t understand ......... hiv is higly contagious
#138 Posted by zeemax on October 17, 2006 4:44:04 am
Veiled license photo litigant
Sultana Freeman:
``...wearing niqab alone can become Jihad in an oppressive land``
Sultana Freeman runs the `Muttaqun Foundation` Winterpark,Florida.
#137 Posted by echoboom on October 17, 2006 4:36:11 am
This is the stuff which is giving jitters & sleepless nights to the immoral and debauched Farangis & their westoxicated Ghulaams, Naukars, Chakars, avsaars, Daases, and kuttaas ........``we speak english, hence we are``.
These are phenominal times. Just as the Mongols, the supreme world-powers the world has yet to see, who defeated the ``Muslims``( Musharraf type debauched secularoons) but were themselves conquered by Islam.....
.........in that same true fashion we are witnessing a miracle happening right within our lifetimes.
The Ba Ba Blacksheep, toata-mainaas, Kavvaas as white buttucks, baboons, and Cantonement-Colony kuttas & the other english-only ones from the Slavelands will soon find themselves released back into the jungles--``Free at last, Free at Last`` they will sing in their own tongues.
Read about the Miracles occuring right outside your doorstep in Islam-USA/Europe
Photo by Jessica Donofrio/The State HornetMuslim Association students Jarrod Long and Ashley Avecilla stand with the Quran in from of the Quad on Sept. 12
As he sat outside during a recent lunch break on the Sacramento State campus, barely a minute passed before students began approaching Jarrod Long. They came to ask a question, confirm a social event, or just to say hello.
“Assalaam walaikum,” the 24-year-old humanities and religious studies major greeted each person in return, an Arabic phrase meaning, “Peace be upon you.”
As the president of the Muslim Students Association, Long is a familiar face within the Muslim community on campus. He welcomes discussion surrounding his devotion to the Islamic faith and frequently quotes the teachings of the Quran, the Muslim holy book, in conversation.
While Long is a respected and faithful Muslim, his religious conviction is relatively new. Raised as a Catholic, it was only a year and one half ago, on his 23rd birthday, that he converted to Islam.
Long represents an increasing number of Americans who are converting to Islam from other religions. The approaching of Ramadan – the month-long Islamic reflection period beginning Sept. 23 where Muslims fast from sunrise to sunset – has pushed this trend into the spotlight. While there are no studies known to have examined conversion rates, the Sacramento Bee purported Islam to be the fastest growing religion in the world. Time Magazine also estimated that the number of Muslim converts in the U.S. and Europe number in the hundreds of thousands.
Ashley Avecilla, 22, is another Sac State student who recently converted to Islam after taking Shahadah, the Islamic testimony of faith. On Aug. 27, she declared her devotion at a Sacramento mosque, the center for Islamic worship.
Although she was baptized in the Catholic church, Avecilla was introduced to Islam by friends in high school. She didn`t understand the faith but developed an interest in it. Her interest grew in college when she purchased a book on Islam and enrolled in an Islamic Studies course.
“One morning I just woke up and knew it was time,” she said.
There are other students who, like Avecilla, are turning to academics for answers. Erin Stiles, assistant professor in humanities and religious studies, has taught courses to introduce students to Islam and Islamic cultures for three years at Sac State. After arriving in 2003, she was impressed by students` eagerness to learn about the religion.>
“Right off the bat there was a great deal of interest,” Stiles said. “For a class with a cap of 40 students, we usually have at least twice that number trying to get in.”
The department will offer an introduction to Islam course next semester for 120 students. Stiles, who is not Muslim, believes terrorist attacks by Muslim extremists fueled interest in the religion.
“I think, in part, it has to do with September 11 (2001) and people wanting to move away from stereotypes you see in the media or biased views you hear on the street,” Stiles said.
While approximately 25 percent of the students enrolled are from a Muslim background, the rest have no previous knowledge of the religion. Stiles also said that, although she isn`t aware of students who have converted to Islam after taking her course, it is a possibility.
While Stiles hasn`t studied conversion to Islam, she pointed out that each individual has personal reasons for converting.
“People are drawn to religions for so many reasons,” she said.
Long and Avecilla embraced Islam after a process of self-reflection. For Long, his search was stimulated by the death of his mother, who was also very spiritual. He studied Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism before coming across Islam.
“It was actually the last religion I looked at,” Long said. He was drawn to the simplicity of Islam and the religion`s emphasis on a one-on-one relationship with Allah, the Muslim word for God.
On the other hand, Avecilla was attracted to the faith`s emphasis on community.
“A lot of us focus on ourselves as individuals and forget how much we do need that connection with other people,” she said.
Photo by Jessica Donofrio/The State Hornet
Arzoo Mojadedi, left, and Sanaa Subjani attend the Thursday meeting of the Muslim Student Association, an ice cream social, in the University Union Summit Room.
While she appreciated that Islam complimented her personal beliefs, Avecilla`s conversion has not been without adjustment. She admitted that not all of her family and friends initially welcomed her new faith.
“Some of my non-Muslim friends were a bit confused about it,” Avecilla said. “They didn`t know what Islam was about.”
She is also not prepared to wear the traditional hijab, a headscarf worn by Muslim women.
“It`s preferable that you wear it, but it`s a big step to take,” she said. “It`s something you have to really be committed to.”
She doesn`t know if she`ll ever be ready to make the commitment, but, if she does, it won`t be for a long time.
“I`m still getting used to wearing sleeves in the summer,” she remarked. “It`s so hot!”
Avecilla dresses more conservatively than before, preferring to wear loose-fitting clothing that doesn`t divert attention from her inner qualities to her outward appearance. She said it`s been worth it.
“I go to bed feeling a little bit more content at night,” she said. “I`ve found a special place in my heart.”
For Sac State student Larissa Prudence, 22, Islam also coincided with her spiritual convictions.
“After looking at both the Bible and the Quran, it basically made the most sense to me,” Prudence said.
While many students mark their birthdays with a night out, Prudence marked her birthday last week with a personal celebration.
After gathering for dinner with friends, she surprised everyone by announcing that she was visiting a mosque afterwards. There, she declared her submission to Allah.
“I woke up in the morning and thought, ‘It`s a new day, a new beginning,’” she said. “It fit perfectly.”
The transition has been relatively smooth for Prudence, who was raised conservatively in a mixed-religious household.
“Islam already fit with how I led my life, so it wasn`t a radical change,” she said. “My family is also pretty open-minded, so they`ve been accepting.”
While Prudence has experimented with wearing the hijab, she, like Avecilla, has opted not to adopt the traditional dress for financial reasons.
“It was too expensive to buy all new clothes,” she said. “But I would definitely consider it in the future.”
Long, Avecilla and Prudence said reactions to their conversions have been positive on campus and in the community. The only negative encounter Long has experienced was outside of Sacramento. He also wants to emphasize that the behaviors of terrorists should not represent his religion.
“These actions are not indicative of what Islam actually teaches,” he said. “Muslims feel as offended by these terrorist attacks as does everyone else.”
Long said it is important for people to learn about Islam in order to dismiss such perceptions. He suggested that a person with any questions visit a local mosque.
Students can also participate in MSA events such as Fast for a Day on Oct. 9. The event gives non-Muslim students an opportunity to experience what those who are poor or hungry endure daily and will be broken by a group meal after sunset.
Stiles is also careful to address misconceptions in her courses.
“One of the first things we do is brainstorm perceptions and stereotypes of Islam,” Stiles said. “The students usually don`t hold these views but are aware of them, so it is important to understand why they might be inappropriate.”
For Long, his faith has become such a strong force in his life that any reaction would be worth it.
“Islam has offered me a sense of contentment that can`t be shaken,” he said. “I am thankful for whatever comes my way.”
These are phenominal times. Just as the Mongols, the supreme world-powers the world has yet to see, who defeated the ``Muslims``( Musharraf type debauched secularoons) but were themselves conquered by Islam.....
.........in that same true fashion we are witnessing a miracle happening right within our lifetimes.
The Ba Ba Blacksheep, toata-mainaas, Kavvaas as white buttucks, baboons, and Cantonement-Colony kuttas & the other english-only ones from the Slavelands will soon find themselves released back into the jungles--``Free at last, Free at Last`` they will sing in their own tongues.
Read about the Miracles occuring right outside your doorstep in Islam-USA/Europe
Photo by Jessica Donofrio/The State HornetMuslim Association students Jarrod Long and Ashley Avecilla stand with the Quran in from of the Quad on Sept. 12Adopting the faith
Students converting to Islam aim to shed light on religion
Megan Chuchmach
The State Hornet
September 20, 2006
As he sat outside during a recent lunch break on the Sacramento State campus, barely a minute passed before students began approaching Jarrod Long. They came to ask a question, confirm a social event, or just to say hello.
“Assalaam walaikum,” the 24-year-old humanities and religious studies major greeted each person in return, an Arabic phrase meaning, “Peace be upon you.”
As the president of the Muslim Students Association, Long is a familiar face within the Muslim community on campus. He welcomes discussion surrounding his devotion to the Islamic faith and frequently quotes the teachings of the Quran, the Muslim holy book, in conversation.
While Long is a respected and faithful Muslim, his religious conviction is relatively new. Raised as a Catholic, it was only a year and one half ago, on his 23rd birthday, that he converted to Islam.
RISING TREND
Long represents an increasing number of Americans who are converting to Islam from other religions. The approaching of Ramadan – the month-long Islamic reflection period beginning Sept. 23 where Muslims fast from sunrise to sunset – has pushed this trend into the spotlight. While there are no studies known to have examined conversion rates, the Sacramento Bee purported Islam to be the fastest growing religion in the world. Time Magazine also estimated that the number of Muslim converts in the U.S. and Europe number in the hundreds of thousands.
STUDENT INTEREST
Ashley Avecilla, 22, is another Sac State student who recently converted to Islam after taking Shahadah, the Islamic testimony of faith. On Aug. 27, she declared her devotion at a Sacramento mosque, the center for Islamic worship.
Although she was baptized in the Catholic church, Avecilla was introduced to Islam by friends in high school. She didn`t understand the faith but developed an interest in it. Her interest grew in college when she purchased a book on Islam and enrolled in an Islamic Studies course.
“One morning I just woke up and knew it was time,” she said.
There are other students who, like Avecilla, are turning to academics for answers. Erin Stiles, assistant professor in humanities and religious studies, has taught courses to introduce students to Islam and Islamic cultures for three years at Sac State. After arriving in 2003, she was impressed by students` eagerness to learn about the religion.>
“Right off the bat there was a great deal of interest,” Stiles said. “For a class with a cap of 40 students, we usually have at least twice that number trying to get in.”
The department will offer an introduction to Islam course next semester for 120 students. Stiles, who is not Muslim, believes terrorist attacks by Muslim extremists fueled interest in the religion.
“I think, in part, it has to do with September 11 (2001) and people wanting to move away from stereotypes you see in the media or biased views you hear on the street,” Stiles said.
While approximately 25 percent of the students enrolled are from a Muslim background, the rest have no previous knowledge of the religion. Stiles also said that, although she isn`t aware of students who have converted to Islam after taking her course, it is a possibility.
REASONING
While Stiles hasn`t studied conversion to Islam, she pointed out that each individual has personal reasons for converting.
“People are drawn to religions for so many reasons,” she said.
Long and Avecilla embraced Islam after a process of self-reflection. For Long, his search was stimulated by the death of his mother, who was also very spiritual. He studied Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism before coming across Islam.
“It was actually the last religion I looked at,” Long said. He was drawn to the simplicity of Islam and the religion`s emphasis on a one-on-one relationship with Allah, the Muslim word for God.
On the other hand, Avecilla was attracted to the faith`s emphasis on community.
“A lot of us focus on ourselves as individuals and forget how much we do need that connection with other people,” she said.
ADJUSTING
Photo by Jessica Donofrio/The State HornetArzoo Mojadedi, left, and Sanaa Subjani attend the Thursday meeting of the Muslim Student Association, an ice cream social, in the University Union Summit Room.
While she appreciated that Islam complimented her personal beliefs, Avecilla`s conversion has not been without adjustment. She admitted that not all of her family and friends initially welcomed her new faith.
“Some of my non-Muslim friends were a bit confused about it,” Avecilla said. “They didn`t know what Islam was about.”
She is also not prepared to wear the traditional hijab, a headscarf worn by Muslim women.
“It`s preferable that you wear it, but it`s a big step to take,” she said. “It`s something you have to really be committed to.”
She doesn`t know if she`ll ever be ready to make the commitment, but, if she does, it won`t be for a long time.
“I`m still getting used to wearing sleeves in the summer,” she remarked. “It`s so hot!”
Avecilla dresses more conservatively than before, preferring to wear loose-fitting clothing that doesn`t divert attention from her inner qualities to her outward appearance. She said it`s been worth it.
“I go to bed feeling a little bit more content at night,” she said. “I`ve found a special place in my heart.”
For Sac State student Larissa Prudence, 22, Islam also coincided with her spiritual convictions.
“After looking at both the Bible and the Quran, it basically made the most sense to me,” Prudence said.
While many students mark their birthdays with a night out, Prudence marked her birthday last week with a personal celebration.
After gathering for dinner with friends, she surprised everyone by announcing that she was visiting a mosque afterwards. There, she declared her submission to Allah.
“I woke up in the morning and thought, ‘It`s a new day, a new beginning,’” she said. “It fit perfectly.”
The transition has been relatively smooth for Prudence, who was raised conservatively in a mixed-religious household.
“Islam already fit with how I led my life, so it wasn`t a radical change,” she said. “My family is also pretty open-minded, so they`ve been accepting.”
While Prudence has experimented with wearing the hijab, she, like Avecilla, has opted not to adopt the traditional dress for financial reasons.
“It was too expensive to buy all new clothes,” she said. “But I would definitely consider it in the future.”
REACTIONS
Long, Avecilla and Prudence said reactions to their conversions have been positive on campus and in the community. The only negative encounter Long has experienced was outside of Sacramento. He also wants to emphasize that the behaviors of terrorists should not represent his religion.
“These actions are not indicative of what Islam actually teaches,” he said. “Muslims feel as offended by these terrorist attacks as does everyone else.”
Long said it is important for people to learn about Islam in order to dismiss such perceptions. He suggested that a person with any questions visit a local mosque.
Students can also participate in MSA events such as Fast for a Day on Oct. 9. The event gives non-Muslim students an opportunity to experience what those who are poor or hungry endure daily and will be broken by a group meal after sunset.
Stiles is also careful to address misconceptions in her courses.
“One of the first things we do is brainstorm perceptions and stereotypes of Islam,” Stiles said. “The students usually don`t hold these views but are aware of them, so it is important to understand why they might be inappropriate.”
For Long, his faith has become such a strong force in his life that any reaction would be worth it.
“Islam has offered me a sense of contentment that can`t be shaken,” he said. “I am thankful for whatever comes my way.”
#136 Posted by zeemax on October 17, 2006 4:07:31 am
#55 by PM : re. #17
The talibaan did a lot initially to bring about stability in war-ravaged Afghanistan--which is why they were welcomed with open arms.
True. But you haven`t mentioned how they did it. They brought about this stability in a land literally ruled by extortion and gangsterism precisely through another set of their harsh laws which was stringing brigands and highwaymen up on utility poles. It was a violent revolution, no doubt, but just as many others have been before in history. Why do people single Taliban out for doing this?
I know the talibaan are `simple` people. But simple people can also easily go on ego trips. Especially when the checks and balances ....
This is a conjecture without knowing Taliban. In fact, even the published evidence is to the contrary. Mulla Umar never moved to Kabul and lived on in Kandhar in his spartan dwelling throughout his reign when he controlled 90% of Afghanistan. They banned the poppy cash crop at great opposition from farmers as well as foregoing all the tax revenue. They treated visitors and delegates with great humility. Egotism is one trait they do not possess.
I am not clear on how banning female education, forcing them to observe the strictest of pardah ...
Before I answer your question, I would remind you where Mullah Umar came from. He emerged on the scene when the then Governor of Kandhar had announced `marriage` with a teenage boy. Mulla Umar had led the Taliban rebellion against that Governor and had him executed, I think personally. From there onwards Taliban established their presence and ultimately took over the country. The point of this prelude is to illustrate the state of Afghan society at the time, and also to point to the moral prerogative of Taliban in the revolution.
They adopted the same moral attitude towards women. The sexual mores in Kabul etc were extremely loose (just as in pre-revolution Iran), and Kabul`s streets had been full of hookers so much so that after the Taliban clampdown, Peshawar in Pakistan which had never had a prostitution problem, was inundated with Afghan refugee women standing on street corners (and the provincial government had to seek NGOs help, but then the girls just moved to Islamabad). This mushrooming of the oldest profession in Afghanistan was a result of the Soviet occupation just as the protracted US occupation of Vietnam had done the same not only to to Vietnam, but also to Laos and Thailand to service their soldiers on R&R which continues to this day. Taliban tried to basically stop this trade which fact is either not known or completely ignored.
As for banning female education, that is another fallacy. They didn`t just ban females but also males by sacking half the faculty of Kabul University. They didn`t agree on what was being taught and they decided to completely stop females (no female madrassas you see), while resetting the curriculum of the university.
However, there`s no disputing that they overreacted. Again, they`re simple people and know little about nation building but to ruthlessly crack down on what they find abhorrent.
...or prohibiting them from working in ANY field all contribute(d)towards ``regimenting society in a disciplined way.``
`Any` field is not correct. They never stopped the nursing profession to my knowledge.
-- let alone the question of what any of this had to do with Islam. Perhaps you can elaborate a little.
Their enforcement of purdah and limiting of both male/female education etc was certainly more in line with tribal tradition than Islam, but I maintain they would have gladly accepted advice if meaningfully engaged. I personally know many professional bankers etc, bearded or not, who made a beeline for Kabul and were welcomed by Mullah Umar who wanted them to open shop in Afghanistan and help them with the economy.
The talibaan did a lot initially to bring about stability in war-ravaged Afghanistan--which is why they were welcomed with open arms.
True. But you haven`t mentioned how they did it. They brought about this stability in a land literally ruled by extortion and gangsterism precisely through another set of their harsh laws which was stringing brigands and highwaymen up on utility poles. It was a violent revolution, no doubt, but just as many others have been before in history. Why do people single Taliban out for doing this?
I know the talibaan are `simple` people. But simple people can also easily go on ego trips. Especially when the checks and balances ....
This is a conjecture without knowing Taliban. In fact, even the published evidence is to the contrary. Mulla Umar never moved to Kabul and lived on in Kandhar in his spartan dwelling throughout his reign when he controlled 90% of Afghanistan. They banned the poppy cash crop at great opposition from farmers as well as foregoing all the tax revenue. They treated visitors and delegates with great humility. Egotism is one trait they do not possess.
I am not clear on how banning female education, forcing them to observe the strictest of pardah ...
Before I answer your question, I would remind you where Mullah Umar came from. He emerged on the scene when the then Governor of Kandhar had announced `marriage` with a teenage boy. Mulla Umar had led the Taliban rebellion against that Governor and had him executed, I think personally. From there onwards Taliban established their presence and ultimately took over the country. The point of this prelude is to illustrate the state of Afghan society at the time, and also to point to the moral prerogative of Taliban in the revolution.
They adopted the same moral attitude towards women. The sexual mores in Kabul etc were extremely loose (just as in pre-revolution Iran), and Kabul`s streets had been full of hookers so much so that after the Taliban clampdown, Peshawar in Pakistan which had never had a prostitution problem, was inundated with Afghan refugee women standing on street corners (and the provincial government had to seek NGOs help, but then the girls just moved to Islamabad). This mushrooming of the oldest profession in Afghanistan was a result of the Soviet occupation just as the protracted US occupation of Vietnam had done the same not only to to Vietnam, but also to Laos and Thailand to service their soldiers on R&R which continues to this day. Taliban tried to basically stop this trade which fact is either not known or completely ignored.
As for banning female education, that is another fallacy. They didn`t just ban females but also males by sacking half the faculty of Kabul University. They didn`t agree on what was being taught and they decided to completely stop females (no female madrassas you see), while resetting the curriculum of the university.
However, there`s no disputing that they overreacted. Again, they`re simple people and know little about nation building but to ruthlessly crack down on what they find abhorrent.
...or prohibiting them from working in ANY field all contribute(d)towards ``regimenting society in a disciplined way.``
`Any` field is not correct. They never stopped the nursing profession to my knowledge.
-- let alone the question of what any of this had to do with Islam. Perhaps you can elaborate a little.
Their enforcement of purdah and limiting of both male/female education etc was certainly more in line with tribal tradition than Islam, but I maintain they would have gladly accepted advice if meaningfully engaged. I personally know many professional bankers etc, bearded or not, who made a beeline for Kabul and were welcomed by Mullah Umar who wanted them to open shop in Afghanistan and help them with the economy.
Interact Index
Latest Interacts
- dost_mittar: arjun#118( post # not... US Commando Strike in
- bubba: Re: # 113 Posted... US Commando Strike in
- _arjun19: #116 Posted by... US Commando Strike in
- mike195879: FYI: NYT magazine Dept... US Commando Strike in
- dost_mittar: ahmadmadani#82: That's a complex question,... US Commando Strike in
- _arjun19: #94 Posted by... US Commando Strike in
- _arjun19: So if "bear stearns... US Commando Strike in
- CreateAlpha: Bubba, over 90% of... US Commando Strike in
