Indian Muslims

Re: # 83 HE

Read my post again... I mentioned UK muslims in the context of my argument that - the community itself, because of their hidebound ways and ghetto mentality, is keeping itself from getting ahead... this is true in case IMs as well as BMs(Brit Muslims)... In fact, this seems to be problem afflicting muslim communities in many places in the world...

IMs sure are the very backward and lack political platform - nobody is arguing anything else... but the fault lies with the community itself for most part... nobody is stopping them from having a platform, or getting educated, getting modern... I mean - other minority communities have been very successful... muslims can do it too... by getting educated and working hard... That`s what Naqshbandi was pointing out too...

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In comparison to Bangladeshi Muslims - well, they flocking to india in millions - so your assertion that they are better ``empowered`` than IMs seem vacuous... if Paki muslims are that empowered, but we don`t see IMs flocking to pakiland either, to get empowered or whatever...

Overally - the conditions of muslims in the subcontinent is pretty bad...barring the elites of pakistan, rest of the masses are in very bad shape, in one way or the other...

Re: # 90

naqshbandi,

...... i would buy yoiur argument if i didn`t know all these people who have not worked in decades and live off the dole in birmingham, leeds and manchester during the summer, and spend their winter `holidays` in gujjar khan, mandra, kallar syedan and mohra langriyal .......

#93 by Naqshbandi on November 9, 2006 7:44am PT


it helps the Muslims of India to feel Indian when every time they criticise the government for anything their very loyalty to India is questioned?


Oh get over this victim mentality already..When some muslims march against G.W. Bush`s visit or against India`s ties to Israel but never march against terrorism in Kashmir, heck YES people will question their loyalty to Islam over their loyalty to India..


Again...You are as loyal as you feel loyal...If you are loyal, you shouldn`t really strive for the seal of approval from anyone else...it`s like the ahmedi thing...their being muslims is between them an allah..not the majority of the denizens of the land of the pure...

#81 by hamidm2 on November 8, 2006 9:41pm PT


the americans are above the petty politics of religion


I read a poll that said Americans are more likely to vote a muslim for president than an atheist....

#90 by Naqshbandi on November 9, 2006 7:38am PT

Minorities, especially immigrants, are doing far better in the US than they are in the UK or europe..the playing field can never be level..as long as there`s no barrier on the way to the end-zone, people whouldn`t whine...

Re: # 92
[...the mindset of the majority of Hindus (not all), is against Muslims...]

Hinuds are NOT ``against`` muslims... but hindus sure are mighty peeved at the long-running victim mentality, ghettoisation, aversion to secular education... muslims are unwilling to get educated and work hard, at the same time whine constantly and blame the hindus for their predicament...

What abt the other Indian Muslims living in Pakistan?

The following part is culled from the article from http://thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=31187

written Mr. Burhanuddin Hasan, a former director of PTV i.e propaganda wing of Pureland.

>>>This was the beginning of the persecution of Mohajirs by successive governments, which led to an awareness in the Urdu-speaking people to organise themselves as a separate community in order to safeguard their legitimate rights of equal treatment as citizens of Pakistan who were being systematically denied access to education and jobs through the quota system and other such discriminatory measures.<<<<

B4 shedding crocodile tears abt the Indian Muslims pl shed some for the other Indian Muslims `trapped` in Pakistan, who went there imagining it as an El Dorado of Indian Muslims.

re: mohar11

Migration cannot be the first choice for IMs because of Pakistan`s restrictive immigration policy and the sheer size of IM population. Pakistan is relatively prosperous, but sudden influx of 150 million refugees would overwhelm even the US economy.

The correct course of action for IMs is to establish a political party, contest elections under the Indian Constitution and create special budgetary allocations for uplift of their co-religionists. Not only will this diminish the role of Mullahs, it will also abridge the income gaps between Hindus and Muslims.

But this requires a 180 degree change in Hindu mindset. It requires the Hindu majority to set aside its ``Pakistan trauma`` and allow IMs some political responsibility.

Thank you all self-respecting Indians and Pakistanis who slapped that red face son of a racist macaque by a margin of 7250 votes fairly and squarely -- thank you.

That X-senator XXX -- how amorous that X can be now -- will live with that remark in ignominious ignominy with the lesson -- don`t tangle with the Indians if you want to carry the Fairfax County.

Re: # 104

Every community in India is a minority! There`s nothing like a bloc Hindu community with pan-Indian en bloc thinking. Same applies to Muslims.

Btw, why a separate political party? What laws enacted by the Indians (all of them) are discriminatory in ur view? Pl mention some Acts that caused economic deprivation.

Hasan,

Thanks for ur words of solidarity.

We look up to the whites all the time and they use us like door-mats. Despite of his remarks we saw him being followed by coloured people. What a shame!

``i consider myself to be a homo-loving, tree-hugging conservative ........``(hamidm)

I know Habibi -- some of my best friends are republicans -- did you know 35% of your evangelicals also voted for the Democrats...!

re: #106

If IMs had a political party, they would have tampered down the powers granted to law enforcement agencies (LEAs) under POTA and TADA. These bills afflicted more harm to IMs than Hindus because it provided extremist Hindu policemen with a legal way to further their communal agenda.

But a role in Legislation is just part of the solution.

Accountability of Executive branch of Govt is the bigger problem. MLAs and government officials who discriminate against IMs must be brought to justice. An IM political party can help bear pressure on such rogue elements. In addition, it will also expose IMs to the practical challenges of governance.

If inclusion in government can drill responsibility and some moderation into the MMA in Pakistan, it can do wonders for IMs too.

Re: # 109

In the same token u recommed a party for Hindus whose population are equally pauperised?

As for misuse of TADA and POTA, they are meant to tackle terrorism, which is a latest threat to all nation states. Unlike in Pakistan we cant bomb the whole school or colony but apply laws - howsoever deficiently - to dispense justice. If some groups are targeted, it`s coz of the evidence. As I said we India dont just bomb the whole madrasa or colony.

#104 by HisExcellency on November 9, 2006 9:41am PT

Nobody has prevented the Indian Muslims from starting their own political party. In fact, the Muslim League and Jamaat-i-Islam have been in existence since August 15, 1947 and have even won Parliamentary seats. It is a free country and they can do that under the Indian Constitution. Also, Muslims are not barred from sending their kids to school, learning any trade they want, working towards any college degree, applying for military, opening up a business, etc. Instead if some of them would like to face Mecca and shout Arabic quotes 24/7 then that is their prerogative.

Let me remind you that the real political strength does not come from sheer numbers. Yeah! politicans might kiss up a bit during the election time for votes but that`s it. Real strength comes from money power and one of the ways to get it is by education. The day the Muslims work hard for themselves and become affluent and contribute a lot of money to the Indian Treasury their influence will go up significantly just like the Jews of the US. Until then don`t expect Hindus or any other community to hand anything to them on a platter. Everyone is looking out for their own interests and Muslims are no exceptions. Plus Muslims aren`t exactly the darlings of other communities as well. So until then you and your Indian co-religionists might shout as much as you want ``Allah ke naam pe de na baba``, none of us non-Muslim Indians (except maybe a few psecs like Aparna Pande) are going to lose any sleep.

Pakistan`s population in 1947 was what 35 million. At that time West Pakistanis complained that your society will not be able to bear the burden of another 35 million Muslims from India. Guess what! since then your population has more than quadrupled. You are still there. In another 30 years or so your population will again double and you will have to live with it. So why don`t you invite the 150 Indian Muslims now? India is also an overpopulated country and frankly it will ease our burden as well if the 150 million leave. Also currently Indian population density is about 1.75 times that of Pakistan.

At this stage, Pakistan can consider doing the the following for Indian Muslims:

- Grant amnesty to the millions of illegal Indian Muslims living in Karachi and Hyderabad, provided they do not have a criminal record.
- Run a visa lottery for Indian Muslims
- Start a guest worker program