Musharraf Stirring the Pot in the Tribal Area—Why?

#60 by bbabu on December 6, 2006 7:22pm PT

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Re: # 59

If CNN was around in 1971 you would not have Pakistanis braying about Islam.

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Yeah Indira Gandhi needed CNN to bray about Hindooi Fundoois.

Re: # 59

If CNN was around in 1971 you would not have Pakistanis braying about Islam.

Re: # 58 babu raam furmatay hain

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`` BTW if Indira Gandhi had done all this ``reading the 1971 papers``, she would have conducted trials against Pakistanis. Heck she had 40,000 army men from Gen. to soldiers. They would have happily provided their ``samples`` to Indira for paternity tests for BDeshi and Bihari kids. ``

Be happy that CNN and DNA analysis was not around in 1971.

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hahah! So Indira Gandhi had 40,000 POWs and she needed CNN to prove the war crimes? Man you put all those HI-HI-T graduates to shame.

Bunch of yem yen boys trying to be men. Shameless indeed.

taikonaut #57

`` Well you are challenging Sh. Mujib`s statements. He said 3 million and you are contradicting your deity. Strange! ``

He is not my deity. Mujib was in prison in West Pakistan while Pakistani army was on its orgy in East Pakistan. How would he know ?

`` While you are doing this interesting ``reading of the 1971 papers``, figure this out! How many of E. Bengalis died in Hindustan vs. how many died in E. Pakistan. ``

Of course refugees die of starvation and disease. It is not like Indian army was hunting down any refugees. India in 1970 was in no position to feed 10-15 million refugees.

`` Also while we are at it, do some DNA analysis on BDeshis. We need to figure out all the kids resulting from those Hindi media reported millions of rapes. ``

why do i care ?

`` BTW if Indira Gandhi had done all this ``reading the 1971 papers``, she would have conducted trials against Pakistanis. Heck she had 40,000 army men from Gen. to soldiers. They would have happily provided their ``samples`` to Indira for paternity tests for BDeshi and Bihari kids. ``

Be happy that CNN and DNA analysis was not around in 1971.

Re: # 54 babu bhai says

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I do not know about 3 million. Reading the 1971 newspaper archives I can conclude safely that the Pakistani army killed 100,000 to 300,000 civillians in a few months. Most of the killings were pre-meditated. This would exclude deaths in military operations and killings by Razakars.

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Well you are challenging Sh. Mujib`s statements. He said 3 million and you are contradicting your deity. Strange!

While you are doing this interesting ``reading of the 1971 papers``, figure this out! How many of E. Bengalis died in Hindustan vs. how many died in E. Pakistan.

Also while we are at it, do some DNA analysis on BDeshis. We need to figure out all the kids resulting from those Hindi media reported millions of rapes.

BTW if Indira Gandhi had done all this ``reading the 1971 papers``, she would have conducted trials against Pakistanis. Heck she had 40,000 army men from Gen. to soldiers. They would have happily provided their ``samples`` to Indira for paternity tests for BDeshi and Bihari kids.

Thank you for your hard work.

#52 by taikonaut

Sure! China imports $10 million worth of IT, and dumps $10 billion worth of pots and pans. Net gain for China = $9.99 billion.

Arey yaar, at least know your facts before you argue. Till last year, India had a trade surplus of almost $ 4 billion. I`m not aware of this year`s figures, but should be somewhat similar.

What Hindustanis can do best is to take pot shots at Pakistan (1/10th of country`s size).

On the one hand, you guys whine when countries like US and UK do not mention India and Pakistan in the same breath, but when the comparison is in favor of India, you whine saying that Pakistan, after all is just 1/10th (actually it is 1/7th) of India.

Taiko,

The bilateral trade is around US$20 bn and the trade gap is not very large. But you are right China is very ahead of India in most areas and India would be well-advised to close the gap.

And yes, even though India may be poorer/backward than China in most areas, there would be areas in which China could (and in fact does) encourage investments from India, IT being one. Incidentally Indians are also investing in China for manufacturing both for Indian, Chinese and overseas markets (just as China is doing the same in India).

Regards

taikonaut #25

`` Abraham Lincoln didn`t give ``autonomy`` to the South, nor is SriLanka giving independence to its Tamil region. Look what Tajik and Uzbek Generals did to Afghan Pashtuns. 1000`s of Pashtoons were killed in overstuffed containers. Still Afghanistan is a country. ``

Lincoln fought the South. 75% of Americans were loyal to the Union. He had industrial base. He had morality on his side. America was a continent away from its neighbors.

What were those Pashtoons doing in those overstuffed containers in the first place ?
Last time I checked Mazar-e-Sharif was not a Pashtoon town.

`` Countries whether democratic or autocratic usually are not in the business of handing out autonomies. Hello! That is why they are called countries and not UNO. ``

India has a working not perfect federal system to devolve power to various groups. Switzerland has cantons to devolve power. USA has a decent federal system with checks and balances.

`` Just ask your chaha Nehru as to why he was so constipated about Kashmir. Every piece of a country be it next door or next mile, is atoot ang. UK didn`t let Faukland go out of its hand, nor do Russians treat Chechnians ``autonomically`` (my word). ``

UK let most of its empire go - India, Burma, Kenya, Ghana etc.

`` East Pakistan was an internationally recognized region with specific borders and demarcation. Pakistan tried to hang on to it as long as it could, while Hindustan sent in 60,000 guerrillas to help improve ``peace and harmony`` in East Bengal. Just read the what Manikshaw had to say about Indira`s black role in perpetrating atrocities during the dark days of 1971. Moreover India could not have been able to digest it. The price would have been too big. ``

Why don`t you admit that Pakistanis are incapable of running a large multi-ethnic state ?

`` The bottom line is that Sh. Mujib was a leader (sometimes in jail but still in good health and ``alive``). While the same Sh. Mujib, his boys, his girls, his uncles, and aunts everyone was turned into a pile of minced meat right in the middle of BDesh. Only Husina survived. Who are you going to blame the total annihilation of Sh. Mujib and his family. I am sure you would blame Hindustan for that. ``

Did anything stop Pakistan from hanging Mujib ?

`` You can smirk about 3 million dead. However you won`t be able to produce a single gas chamber, even a tiny concentration camp, or Hutu-Tutsi style floating corpses. Bengalis who died in those days mostly died in Hindustani camps. So the blame goes to whomever was controlling those camps. ``

I do not know about 3 million. Reading the 1971 newspaper archives I can conclude safely that the Pakistani army killed 100,000 to 300,000 civillians in a few months. Most of the killings were pre-meditated. This would exclude deaths in military operations and killings by Razakars.

`` Pakistani and Hindustani armies come from the same stock and they are known for their discipline the world over. There may be one bad apple in Kashmir, or Sierra Leon, or may be BDesh. However no one can accuse Pakistani or Indian army for genocide and rapes. ``

Indian army has never mounted a coup like the Pakistani army.

`` So let these lectures reserved for your own oppressed people from Nagaland to Kashmir. And please let us sort out issues on our side of the border. Thank you. ``

The basic difference between Kashmir and East Pakistan is the following:
East Pakistanis = 56% of Pakistan`s population
Kashmiri Muslims = 0.7% of India`s population

Any amount of propaganda does not convert a mole hill to a mountain

taikonaut #42

`` I hope one day the Southern Hindustanis (no hope for Northies) realize that Kashmir issue is hurting their chances to compete with China, and they will let it go. ``

Kashmir has no bearing upon India`s ability to compete with China. Work ethic, infrastructure and education do.

`` China had similar (nay bigger) territorial issues in Hong Kong, Macao, and Taiwan. However they remained cool headed and let these regions enjoy independent status.

The result? HUGE prosperity for the whole of China. ``

Hong Kong and Macao would have been part of China a long time ago if China had not been communist. It is comparable to Pondicherry (India acquired it in 1954) and Goa (India used force to seize it in 1961).

China is prosperous because of its people, Deng`s reforms and access to the US market.

Re: # 51

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By the way, China comes calling to Bangalore to get Indian IT companies to invest in China.

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Sure! China imports $10 million worth of IT, and dumps $10 billion worth of pots and pans. Net gain for China = $9.99 billion.

China has same population as Hindustan, but 3 times larger economy and 4 times larger budget. Sure China needs a lot of investments from its poor neighbor. hahah.

What Hindustanis can do best is to take pot shots at Pakistan (1/10th of country`s size).

Ref taikonaut #42

[..I hope one day the Southern Hindustanis (no hope for Northies) realize that Kashmir issue is hurting their chances to compete with China, and they will let it go.]

The South Indians are the ones building The Bomb and the missiles. Primarily aimed at China.

Tells you what the Southies think of China.

By the way, China comes calling to Bangalore to get Indian IT companies to invest in China.

Like Iran and Syria -- Musharraf no longer should be afraid of this morally bankrupt mortally wounded US presidency.....``chand roze aur meri jaan faqat chand hee roze``

Question- did Musharraf succeed in using the WPB to break the ARD and separate WPB supporter Benazir Bhutto from mulla-nawaz -- Nawaz Sharif? -- Nah.

WPB is Musharraf`s one decent act in the entire 7 years of his illegal rule -- if he does not stop here -- goes further to abolish the Hudood laws and EVEN the Sharia Court -- he will make up for most of his mortal sins.

one cannot help but commend that cowardly LION Shujaat Hussain for getting enough courage to steer the bill thru both NA and Senate successfully -- despite his MMA-induced irrational fears of divine retribution.

but why those Mother-hating MMAs of Mullah Mule Association start braying -- naa-heeN -- naa-heeN -- in unison -- at the very first glimpse of the women`s rights bill. They look like a bunch of rabies patients who choke at the very sight of shimmering water.

For the implementation of the WPB in Balochistan and NWFP -- I have only one word for Shaukat Aziz for putting his foot down -- BRAVO!

#45 by taikonaut

Wallet example is valid for Bihar and believe me that no body wants to steal Bihar. On the other hand Kashmir is not Hindustan`s wallet. It is a disputed territory from 1947.

Whether or not Kashmir is disputed, the fact remains that it is under Indian control and the state merged into India under an accession treaty (you can dispute it till the cows come home). India is prepared to negotiate its status, but not under threats of violence.

#2 shows even more lack of knowledge about Kashmir. Your statement is very similar to those Muslims who supported continued rule of Nizam over Hyderabad. Hari Singhs rule was bad for Kashmir the same way Nizam`s misrule of Daccan. Hindustan`s government has simply extended the ``misrule`` of Hari Singh.

And pray tell us how Hari Singh`s rule was bad? You cannot go on making statements without backing them up with factual evidence.

I said it before and I say it again. Do not treat Pakistan as an Afghan occupier of Indian territory. Treat Pakistan and Pakistanis as your brothers, and in the process you would win the whole of Pakistan. No I am not talking about destruction of Hindustan or Pakistan. These countries should stay as administrative units, and still love to live with each other.

Very noble sentiments and I fully agree with you. Neither India nor Pakistan should even think of destroying each other and learn to live in peace and harmony. However it is not possible till Pakistan keeps insisting on India handing over Kashmir, which is not going to happen. Look at India and China. Both claim a part of their territory is in the other`s hand, yet that hasn`t stopped them from making spectacular progress in their relationship.

Re: # 46 quotes

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“Given the tribal mindset, I foresee more trouble coming because they usually do not spare their ‘enemies’,

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Tribal mindset of revenge is not the sole property of FATANs (FATA tribals). Deep down every group has tribal mindset when it comes to protecting their interest.

The strongest country in the world i.e. USA has the strongest tribal mindset. Arabs killed 3,000 Americans on 9/11. So far Americans revenge has killed many thousands of Arabs.

FATAns must understand that killing American or European soldiers in Afghanistan is not kosher. You kill one Gora, and the B-52 will do carpet bombing over Bajore and may kill 1000 FATAns.

O Dear FATANs! You may plan to get to Mullahi Jannat (heaven) by killing NATO soldiers, but you will leave behind a big hell for your kins.

It is time to renounce attacks on NATO or Afghanistan. So far Pak army has been able to assure NATO that they will keep Pak-tribals under check. In case that assurance evaporates in the mountains of Bajor, the next step will be the daisy-cutters saying hello to Pak citizens.

Learn from Arab experience guys! Learn from Palestinians! The rest of the world is more than happy to send as many ARABS as possible to Jannat.

Suicide bombing may make headline news. However the ratio of Arabs killed so far is 100 nay 1000 time higher.

The Friday Times


Post-Bajaur situation alarming

Over three weeks after the bombing of Zia-ul-uloom Taleem-ul Quran in the Chenagai village of Bajaur agency, all government claims seem to have fallen flat in the face of angry tribesmen’s conviction that the attack was mounted by US forces stationed in Afghanistan. They also continue to insist that all the victims were seminarians and not under-training militants as claimed by the government.

Attempts by Jama’at-e Islami as well as Awami National Party leaders to visit the bombed site have failed, but some members of the Peshawar High Court Bar Association did manage to visit the area and speak with the people. They have since compiled a report that has also been sent to the NWFP governor.

Unofficially, however, some Jama’at members did slip through the cordon around Chenagai on Nov 16 with a group of journalists who had a chance to see for themselves the flattened madrassa, now being rebuilt by the local tribesmen. Journalists saw tattered clothes, caps, small slippers, bowls, plates and large-size kettles and bowls which the young students of the bombed seminary used for collecting food and tea from the nearby villages.

The journalists also met with Mir Zaman, elder brother of Maulana Liaquat, the administrator of madrassa, who was killed in the attack, and Abdul Hameed, Maulana Liaquat’s nephew, who would replace the deceased as the new administrator of the madrassa. Maulana Liaquat wanted to turn the madrassa into a great seat of learning, Mir Zaman was quoted as saying.

“Write [in your newspapers] that we will settle scores soon,” a young student told the journalists. The media-men also visited the graveyard where the victims, including Maulana Liaquat, lie buried. They saw a large number of people busy offering condolence prayers.

Most of the journalists came back with the impression that the area is still seething with anger. Not many people in Bajaur, however, would agree that the Dargai Fort suicide attack on Nov 8 was the result of this anger: as many as 42 Punjab regiment recruits lost their lives in that deadly attack.

National security agencies – both civil as well as military – meanwhile continue to look for the culprits of that attack. So far, the agencies have picked up about 60 people, mostly Afghan refugees in the Bajaur and Malakand region. About a dozen of those being interrogated are Pakistanis, predominantly Pashtun from the Dir and Malakand region.

Aftab Sherpao, the home minister, told TFT last week of “critical and important progress in the investigations of the Dargai incident”, but so far nothing substantial has come to the fore yet, unless the government is sitting on top of some information that it is loath to release just yet. On his part, President Pervez Musharraf visited the Punjab Regimental Centre in Dargai, perhaps to signal to his detractors that acts of terror would not deter him from pursuing the extremists. We will not back off in the face of such attacks, Musharraf declared, reiterating that the war on terror would continue and the perpetrators of these acts would not be spared.

Officials in the ministry of interior as well as within the intelligence establishment are primarily looking for leads to the masterminds from three angles: was it the handiwork of Afghan agents (as a reprisal for what they believe Pakistan’s support for the Taliban militants inside Afghanistan); did the Pakistani Taliban or staunch followers of the defunct Tehrike Nifaze Shariate Mohammedi (TNSM) mastermind the attack on the under-training Punjab Regiment recruits; or did the agencies create the suicide attack scenario to deflect attention from the strong resentment and wave of protests following the still mysterious and controversial missile strike on the seminary in the Chenagai village near Khaar, the administrative headquarter of Bajaur agency?

Sceptics in Peshawar raised this issue because they think the Bajaur tragedy really inflamed emotions. However, TFT’s conversations with people from various walks of life show the third possibility to be nothing but a stretch. “The government would not get army recruits killed and in such a large number to dilute the reaction from the Bajaur strike,” says a former intelligence official.

A top official dismissed the possibility outright: “The soldiers have to fight these terrorists. Do you think the government would get something like this done which could have a disastrous impact on the morale of those very people it needs to employ to fight this war? This is just ludicrous.”

Analysts also point to the fact that the attack was mounted by a suicide bomber. “This is Al Qaeda modus operandi and it has also been picked up by groups affiliated with Al Qaeda,” says one, adding: “The Dargai tragedy has to be seen in the context of the attack on the Bajaur seminary.” Other observers also dismiss the possibility of the hand of Afghan government. “This was a highly motivated attack and could only be mounted by an extremist. External elements would have used a remote-controlled device for this purpose. The only possibility, and this is a long shot, could be for the Afghan elements to have found an extremist who was then asked to carry out the attack in retaliation of the Bajaur attack. But this is really outlandish,” says a former intelligence official.

Most observers, however, agree that emotions are still running high over the attack and the consequent loss of life. “I have never seen such an outcry, people at large were fuming and cursing the government,” a professor of the Peshawar University told TFT. He said that many of his students who belong to Dir, Dargai and Malakand came back with disturbing stories about the bombing of the TNSM madrassa. In fact, one reason the authorities have still kept the area blocked off is to ensure that no MMA elements can go there and link up with the local tribesmen.

Interestingly, as one student told TFT, a day after the attack, TNSM leaders openly boasted that 278 people had enlisted to join the Taliban, though they ruled out direct attacks on Pakistan army or its installations.

The government is now trying to return to the peace deal it was preparing to sign with the tribes before the strike. Some sources say local leaders are prepared to give it another shot and this because most think that the Americans mounted the attack to sabotage the deal. The deal, TFT has leant, is along the same lines as the North Waziristan agreement: no one will attack army and paramilitary troops and the local tribes would hand over any foreigner found in the area.

The entire region is a stronghold of the TNSM, whose leader Sufi Mohammad is still locked in the Dera Ismail Khan jail for having crossed over into Afghanistan along with 8000 fighters to fight the Americans. He was sneaking back into Pakistan after the ouster of the Taliban when he was captured by the border guards.

Many fighters loyal to Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, the chief of the fundamentalist Hezbe Islami are also known to have sanctuaries in Bajaur because of their ideological and ethnic affinity to the local tribes. “That is why we cannot rule out the role of these outfits either as far as the Dargai attack is concerned,” a very senior intelligence official in Peshawar told TFT. However, he stressed that investigations are being carried out from multiple angles. “We are not looking into just one or two possibilities.”

What is intriguing for the investigators is the fact that instead of attacking one of the many paramilitary camps located within the tribal region, like the one in Khaar, the attackers chose a regular army training camp. Officials in Peshawar say they are preparing for more such incidents since the TNSM leaders and followers, particularly those masked tribesmen who attended the funerals and the protest demonstration, are not likely to sit back.

Usually they look for opportunities to execute the threats they have been hurling at the government. Khalid Aziz, ex chief secretary of the province, also sounded apprehensive. “Given the tribal mindset, I foresee more trouble coming because they usually do not spare their ‘enemies’, in this case the Pakistan army and paramilitary troops are their avowed enemies,” Aziz told TFT.

That is why Pashtun nationalists – led by ANP – have also embarked upon a new campaign premised on the perceived and actual dangers to their community on both sides of the Durand Line. The rhetoric-loaded ANP Jirga in Peshawar on Nov 20, and the Tahafuz Qabail Conference also in Peshawar a day before provide ample evidence of these under-currents which these parties might now find easier to exploit in a situation laced with resentment and anti-Americanism.

Both meetings left no doubt about the current mood in the Frontier Province; the army must return to the barracks, stop its interference and involvement in the tribal areas and allow North-Waziristan like agreements in other agencies to cool off the explosive situation there. The meetings also called for a grand, cross-border jirga of all the Pashtun tribes, something that Afghan government also sees as a panacea for the turmoil.

“This situation demands statesmanship as well as innovative strategy and not the status quo that the British and successive Pakistani regimes perpetuated for their narrow-ended interests,” says an analyst.

Re: # 44 by harish_hyd on November 23, 2006 11:00pm PT

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1. Yaar Taiko, this is like the thief holding a gun to a runner`s head and asking him to part with his wallet,

2. There was never any violence in Kashmir before 1989,

3. I am a southie and you can take it from me

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#1 clearly shows the lack of awareness. Wallet example is valid for Bihar and believe me that no body wants to steal Bihar. On the other hand Kashmir is not Hindustan`s wallet. It is a disputed territory from 1947.

#2 shows even more lack of knowledge about Kashmir. Your statement is very similar to those Muslims who supported continued rule of Nizam over Hyderabad. Hari Singhs rule was bad for Kashmir the same way Nizam`s misrule of Daccan. Hindustan`s government has simply extended the ``misrule`` of Hari Singh.

#3 I won`t question your statement. You may be southie. However if it walks like a duck .....

I said it before and I say it again. Do not treat Pakistan as an Afghan occupier of Indian territory. Treat Pakistan and Pakistanis as your brothers, and in the process you would win the whole of Pakistan. No I am not talking about destruction of Hindustan or Pakistan. These countries should stay as administrative units, and still love to live with each other.

#42 by taikonaut

I hope one day the Southern Hindustanis (no hope for Northies) realize that Kashmir issue is hurting their chances to compete with China, and they will let it go.

Yaar Taiko, this is like the thief holding a gun to a runner`s head and asking him to part with his wallet, otherwise he could lose the race.

There was never any violence in Kashmir before 1989, when Pakistan started training and arming local Kashmiri youths. There was the usual complaint (a valid one) about rigged elections, but elections are rigged almost everywhere else in India. Since then, it went through a metamorphosis and has now turned into a Jihad with the aim of liberating a Muslim homeland from Hindu ``occupation``.

I am a southie and you can take it from me, the sentiment is similar amongst almost everone I`ve met or interact with here: India will never give in to threats, blackmail and violence.

#42

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..I hope one day the Southern Hindustanis (no hope for Northies) realize that Kashmir issue is hurting their chances to compete with China, and they will let it go.

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Maybe before Kargil, pakis had a thin sliver of a chance with South Indians. Your tactical genius commando took care of that very effectively. Now most people I know from the South are convinced that the abomination that Pakiland has turned into has be completely dismantled and rebuilt from scratch. Without which, there can be no hope of being friends. We are hoping that the good people of Pakistan will step forward to do it themselves and we will certainly help with that.

But feed this monster or pander to its needs just so that it does not destroy itself as it sems to perinneally threaten....NOT ON YOUR LIFE. Alos, don`t worry about our ability to compete with China. It is our problem. Go ahead and do whatever you can to hinder India on her march forward, get in our way and we will crush you and move on...it is nothing personal. Stay out of our way and we can have a reasonably civil working relationship. It is your choice.

Oh another thing, we South Indians have no dreams of an ``Akhand Bharat``. We certainly DO NOT WANT TO RE-UNITE WITH PAKILAND.

Re: # 41 majumdar sez

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(It is time that the two brothers (Kuruvas and Pandvas style) learn from history and respect each other`s property. Otherwise we will destroy each other and the West will again set up a ``company Bahadur`` to keep us under its subjugation. )

Amen to that. Maybe Pakistan could show the way by keeping its hands off Indian Kashmir and India could reciprocrate by keeping its hands off POK.

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Thank you for saying Amen for peace and prosperity of the region.

Kashmir is hugely misunderstood by the Hindustanis. Thanks to Nehru`s shenanigans, Hindustan gained 2/3 rd Kashmir but in the process lost the whole of Pakistan.

I hope one day the Southern Hindustanis (no hope for Northies) realize that Kashmir issue is hurting their chances to compete with China, and they will let it go.

Look at China. Same 1 billion people as Hindustan but they are tens of times more prosperous.

China had similar (nay bigger) territorial issues in Hong Kong, Macao, and Taiwan. However they remained cool headed and let these regions enjoy independent status.

The result? HUGE prosperity for the whole of China.

If Hindustan of today figures out the real strength behind letting it go (or compromise), they will surely leap frog ahead of Chinese.

Unfortunately it is too much to expect in a region where nobody listens to the great peace maker Arjuna. Result? Continuous war, continuous misery!

Taiko,

(Hindustan too is suppressing democracy and causing trouble in his own backyard. )

At times, yes.

(At some appropriate time those Hindustanis responsible for this will be brought to justice. )

And what about the Pakistani generals who commited a genocide in Bdesh.

(It is time that the two brothers (Kuruvas and Pandvas style) learn from history and respect each other`s property. Otherwise we will destroy each other and the West will again set up a ``company Bahadur`` to keep us under its subjugation. )

Amen to that. Maybe Pakistan could show the way by keeping its hands off Indian Kashmir and India could reciprocrate by keeping its hands off POK.

Regards

Re: # 37 majumdar sez

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1. had Pakistan not suppressed democracy
2. India too is similarly responsible for mess in its own backyard be it JK, Punjab

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#1 and #2 present the inherent flaw in Hindustani logic. Following your #1, Hindustan too is suppressing democracy and causing trouble in his own backyard.

What BDesh should have been in 1947 is a non-starter. For better or worse, E. Bengal became an internationally recognized country called E. Pakistan. No matter what, Hindustan should have respected its borders.

Instead Hindustanis in general and Indira Gandhi in particular is clearly responsible for pushing 60,000 terrorists in a sovereign country. When those 60,000 terrorists failed, Hindustan went in with regular army. This was clearly a crime committed by Hindustan. At some appropriate time those Hindustanis responsible for this will be brought to justice.

So keep your lectures on Hindustani style demo-krazy to yourself.

Hindustan set a really bad precedent in E. Pak and paid through it nose during Punjab uprising of the 80s.

It is time that the two brothers (Kuruvas and Pandvas style) learn from history and respect each other`s property. Otherwise we will destroy each other and the West will again set up a ``company Bahadur`` to keep us under its subjugation.

p.s. just in case you have doubts, just read Gen. Manikshaw`s essays or watch his interviews.

Zeemax sahib,

Perhaps it may have been better off to have two separate states-Pak and Bdesh to begin with.

Regards

#37 by majumdar

Agreed. Pakistan sowed the seeds of discontent and external sources capitalized on them.

However there is no insurgency in Pak`s NWFP (FATA is not NWFP), and a very small insurgent fringe group in Baluchistan who relies on subversion alone and never surfaces to confront. Thus no parallel can be drawn with E. Pak which in any case was a distant exclave with little in common with West Pak.

Zeemax sahib,

My point was that very often the cause of secessionism and civil war lies within the country`s own domestic policies rather than on external interference. Whatever be the role of RAW in Bdesh, the fact is that had Pakistan not suppressed democracy in the united Pak (including E Pak) Bdesh would never have wanted to seceed. The tragedy of course is that the lesson has not been learnt and Pakistan continues to deny democracy to its citizens even now, (potentially) creating a Bdesh like situation in NWFP, Balochistan.

Pls. dont think that I am trying to preach to you, India too is similarly responsible for mess in its own backyard be it JK, Punjab (once upon a time) etc. External interference only exacerbated a problem that was self-created.

Regards

#30 by taikonaut

So don`t shout about, and lay low. Pray to whatever god you pray that war crimes tribunals won`t get setup. If that happens, the gloves will come off and Indira will be hanged (posthumously) for her crimes against Bengali people.

Like I said, mere allegations without any concrete evidence would remain just that: allegations. The involvement of the Indian-trained Mukti Bahini is a well-known fact. On the other hand, evidence of Paki atrocities in B`desh is there for everyone to see. Whether or not it qualifies to be called a genocide is a matter of semantics, but the fact remains that Pakistan carried out large-scale killings of Bengalis.

You didn`t tell us if you were a Bengali.

That`s because it has nothing to do with this discussion.

#34 by majumdar

No doubt the bombing of Bajaur too was carried out by RAW.

I don`t know why you say that. Neither I nor anyone in Pak has remotely suggested it had anything to do with RAW or India. Besides, the reproduced article quotes the findings of an american research group, and not the opinion of Paks.

#32 by arjun2

...demanding the prosecution of the paki armymen who killed all those people..

Why don`t you take up taikonaut`s challenge and produce evidence of large scale massacres? The only confirmed atrocity by Pak troops was in Dacca University which everyone knows was a hotbed of Muktis, but Paks apparently executed the faculty along with the insurgents as they considered them their leaders. I don`t know how far that was true. In all other accusations, there is simply no evidence of atrocities against civilians.

So try your trusted aide ... Mr. Khasichand Googlemal, and answer the question.

Zeemax sahib,

No doubt the bombing of Bajaur too was carried out by RAW.

Regards

Re: # 32 sez

``oh wait...that`s for the danish cartoons....``

Every Mullah or Pundit deserves his cartoon just so he can burn his neighbor`s house, loot his neighbor`s shop, and rape his neighbor`s women.

Oh wait....Those Mullahs are from Gujarat, angry over a $tupid little structure called Babri something.

#22 by zeemax on November 20, 2006 11:02am PT


They realize very well that Pak people still cry tears of blood over this.


sure peemax...I see photos of pakis out on the streets demanding the prosecution of the paki armymen who killed all those people..

oh wait...that`s for the danish cartoons....

Looks like taikonaut is right on the dot!!

Just happened upon this on an interactor/author`s iLog page dated 18 November:

http://www.chowk.com/show_interactor_page.cgi?membername=TanS

quoted from:

http://indianterrorism.bravepages.com/RAWterrorism.htm

US report details direct RAW involvement in East Pakistan secession
The News Intelligence Network

By Aslam Khan


ISLAMABAD: A sensational American report has confirmed the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), India`s most powerful intelligence agency, was directly involved in the secession of East Pakistan into Bangladesh, and is currently engaged in similar activities. RAW has a long history of activity in Bangladesh supporting both secular forces and the area`s Hindu minority, masterminding the break up of Pakistan in 1971, says the report made available to the News Intelligence Network (NIN) The report has been prepared by the innocent sounding Federation of American Scientists (FAS), a group which is however engaged in analysis and advocacy on science, technology and public policy concerning global security, especially about countries which have nuclear capability.

It is a privately funded non-profit policy organisation, whose Board of Sponsors includes 55 American Nobel laureates. FAS was originally founded as the Federation of Atomic Scientists in 1945 by members of the Manhattan Project, who produced the first atomic bomb. RAW is extensively engaged in disinformation campaigns, espionage, sabotage and terrorism against Pakistan and other neighboring countries, reveals the sensational secret report. It also gives details of the truly alarming involvement of RAW in terrorist activities in Pakistan. The report reveals the involvement of RAW in Bangladesh dating from the 1960s, when it promoted dissatisfaction against Pakistan in the then East Pakistan, including funding Mujibur Rahman`s general election in 1970 and providing training and arming to the Mukti Bahini. The report claims an estimated 35,000 RAW agents have entered Pakistan at various times between 1983-99, with 12,000 having worked in the past or working presently in Sindh, 10,000 in Punjab 8,000 in North West Frontier Province and 5,000 in Balochistan. ``As many as 40 terrorist camps are currently operating at Rajasthan, East Punjab, [occupied] Kashmir, Uttar Pradesh and other parts of India and are run by RAW`s Special Service Bureau [SSB],`` the report reveals. The report further confirms that throughout the Afghan War, RAW was responsible for the planning and execution of terrorist activities in Pakistan to deter Islamabad from supporting the Afghan liberation movement against India`s ally, the Soviet Union.

``The assistance provided to RAW by the KGB enabled RAW to arrange terrorist attacks in Pakistani cities throughout the Afghan War,`` the report says. ``The defeat of the Soviet Union in Afghanistan did not end the role of RAW in Pakistan, as it established training camps in East Punjab, [occupied] Kashmir, Uttar Pradesh and Rajasthan where agents are trained for terrorist activities,`` it reveals.

It further says that RAW has become ``an effective instrument of India`s national power, and has assumed a significant role in formulating India`s domestic and foreign policies.`` RAW, according to the report, has enjoyed the backing of successive Indian governments in these efforts. Working directly under the Prime Minister, the structure rank, pay and perks of the Research and Analysis Wing are kept secret from parliament.

``Current policy debates in India have generally failed to focus on the relative priority given by RAW to activities directed against India`s neighbours versus attention to domestic affairs to safeguard India`s security and territorial integrity,`` the report says. It points out that RAW has had limited success in dealing with separatist movements in Manipur and Tripura in the northeast, Tamil Nadu in the south and Punjab and Kashmir in the northwestern part of the country.

RAW, it adds, has failed to neutralise freedom fighters in Kashmir and similar indigenous movements in Kerala, Karnataka and other places, along with economic and industrial espionage activities in New Delhi and Bombay. Giving a background of the intelligence agency, the American report says RAW was set up in 1968 ``specifically targeted on Pakistan``.

Pakistan, the report says, has accused RAW of sponsoring sabotage in its Punjab province, where it has been supporting the Seraiki movement, ``providing financial support to promote its activities in Pakistan and organising an International Seraiki Conference in Delhi in November December 1993``. It adds: ``RAW has an extensive network of agents and anti-government elements within Pakistan, including dissident elements from various sectarian and ethnic groups of Sindh and Punjab.``

According to it, India is funding the current upsurge of terrorism in Pakistan ``and has been behind the sectarian violence between Shias and Sunnis, which has resulted in thousands of deaths in the last few years.`` Terrorist activities in Pakistan attributed to the clandestine activities of RAW in the report include:

A car bomb explosion in the Saddar area of Peshawar on 21 December 1995, which caused the death of 37 persons and injured over 50 others.

An explosion at Shaukat Khanum Hospital on 14 April 1996, claiming the lives of seven persons and injuries to over 34 others.

A bus traveling from Lahore to Sahiwal was blown up at Bhai Pheru on 28 April 1996, causing the deaths of 44 persons on the spot and injuring 30 others.

An explosion in a bus near the Sheikhupura Hospital killed nine persons and injured 29 others on 08 May 1996.

An explosion near Alam Chowk, Gujranwala on 10 June 1996 which killed three persons and injured 11 others.

A bomb exploded on a bus on GT Road near Kharian on 10 June 1996, killing 2 persons and injuring 10 others.

On 27 June 1996, an explosion opposite Madrassah Faizul Islam, Faizabad, Rawalpindi, killed 5 persons and injured over 50 others.

A bomb explosion in the Faisalabad Railway Station passenger lounge on 8 July 1996 killed 3 persons and injured 20 others.

Another startling claim made by the American report is that it was RAW that was behind the hijacking of an Indian airliner to Lahore in 1971, ``attributed to the Kashmiris, to give a terrorist dimension to the Kashmiri national movement``.

Re: # 29 sez

``yet allege without any proof whatsoever that most Bengali deaths happened in Indian camps``

Look Harish, allegations would fly that Indira Gandhi had 40,000 of our troops as POWs. How many of them were tried for war crimes? Gen. Niazi and all the officers down the line must have had all the proof needed for millions of rapes and deaths. That was the time to conduct DNA tests on these officers and Bangla woman and the kids born after the fateful year of 1971.

As I said there was no smoking gun. No proof. Otherwise Indira would have run a Nuremberg style courts and dragged every Pak army POWs through it.

Here is one possible explanation for you. Indira knew that she will be equally (if not more) implicated for the death of Bengalis. She too will be dragged into crimes court and so too would Shah Beg and other leaders of Indian terrorists helping Mukti Bahini.

Look don`t believe me? Read what Manekshaw had to say about Indira`s deep involvement in the pushing 60,000 terrorists into a sovereign country called East Pakistan.

So don`t shout about, and lay low. Pray to whatever god you pray that war crimes tribunals won`t get setup. If that happens, the gloves will come off and Indira will be hanged (posthumously) for her crimes against Bengali people.

p.s. You didn`t tell us if you were a Bengali.

#27 by taikonaut

Because most of these Bengali deaths and rapes occurred in the Hindustani camps. So many years have gone by and no one has produced mega-mass-graves, or even tiny concentration camps. Hutu-tutsi debacle produced one million corpses in the rivers. There was no such equivalent even though the reported deaths in East Pakistan were 3 times larger.

Funy how you`re asking for evidence of mass graves to exonerate the Paki Army from charges of genocide, yet allege without any proof whatsoever that most Bengali deaths happened in Indian camps.

#27 by taikonaut

Because most of these Bengali deaths and rapes occurred in the Hindustani camps. So many years have gone by and no one has produced mega-mass-graves, or even tiny concentration camps. Hutu-tutsi debacle produced one million corpses in the rivers. There was no such equivalent even though the reported deaths in East Pakistan were 3 times larger.

Funy how you`re asking for evidence of mass graves to exonerate the Paki Army from charges of genocide, yet allege without any proof whatsoever that most Bengali deaths happened in Indian camps.

Re: # 26 ``And just how did Indians rape B`deshis worse than Paks did?``

Because most of these Bengali deaths and rapes occurred in the Hindustani camps. So many years have gone by and no one has produced mega-mass-graves, or even tiny concentration camps. Hutu-tutsi debacle produced one million corpses in the rivers. There was no such equivalent even though the reported deaths in East Pakistan were 3 times larger.

It is time that we did a serious research of deaths and rapes. At least we need to find out via DNA analysis as to how many BDeshis are the product of those ``millions`` of rapes. Unless off course Pakistanis were firing ``blanks``.

BTW Hrish_hyd are you from BDesh?

#22 by zeemax

Now they know it was General Yahya`s army and the kala-angrez bureaucracy at the time who carried out the pogrom against Bengalis, and not the Pak people; which thrust them into the Indians lap who raped them even worse.

And just how did Indians rape B`deshis worse than Pakis did?

Re: # 23 Dear Babu Raam, Abraham Lincoln didn`t give ``autonomy`` to the South, nor is SriLanka giving independence to its Tamil region. Look what Tajik and Uzbek Generals did to Afghan Pashtuns. 1000`s of Pashtoons were killed in overstuffed containers. Still Afghanistan is a country.

Countries whether democratic or autocratic usually are not in the business of handing out autonomies. Hello! That is why they are called countries and not UNO.

Just ask your chaha Nehru as to why he was so constipated about Kashmir. Every piece of a country be it next door or next mile, is atoot ang. UK didn`t let Faukland go out of its hand, nor do Russians treat Chechnians ``autonomically`` (my word).

So forget about broadcasting this charade about Hindipendance from Hindustan.

East Pakistan was an internationally recognized region with specific borders and demarcation. Pakistan tried to hang on to it as long as it could, while Hindustan sent in 60,000 guerrillas to help improve ``peace and harmony`` in East Bengal. Just read the what Manikshaw had to say about Indira`s black role in perpetrating atrocities during the dark days of 1971. Moreover India could not have been able to digest it. The price would have been too big.

The bottom line is that Sh. Mujib was a leader (sometimes in jail but still in good health and ``alive``). While the same Sh. Mujib, his boys, his girls, his uncles, and aunts everyone was turned into a pile of minced meat right in the middle of BDesh. Only Husina survived. Who are you going to blame the total annihilation of Sh. Mujib and his family. I am sure you would blame Hindustan for that.

You can smirk about 3 million dead. However you won`t be able to produce a single gas chamber, even a tiny concentration camp, or Hutu-Tutsi style floating corpses. Bengalis who died in those days mostly died in Hindustani camps. So the blame goes to whomever was controlling those camps.

Pakistani and Hindustani armies come from the same stock and they are known for their discipline the world over. There may be one bad apple in Kashmir, or Sierra Leon, or may be BDesh. However no one can accuse Pakistani or Indian army for genocide and rapes.

So let these lectures reserved for your own oppressed people from Nagaland to Kashmir. And please let us sort out issues on our side of the border. Thank you.

Raam Raam Babu Ji.

Zeemax sahib,

The Bdeshis hate India so much that a million of them cross over to come to India every year.

Regards

Re: # 22

If Pakistan had granted East Pakistan maximum autonomy or even independence India would not be in the picture. In any case India is not occupying Bangladesh.

#21 by CoolAL

CoolAl, I respect your emotional abuse. It is but an emotional subject. Yes, Pak did commit atrocities, I never denied that. Pak did kill university intellectuals and dumped them in mass graves ... and there were raped bengali women, and kids shot to death. I don`t deny any of it.

What I`m saying is that the Bengalis now know the larger picture. Their independence got them nothing except loot and plunder by India whom they believed to be their saviours. Now they know it was General Yahya`s army and the kala-angrez bureaucracy at the time who carried out the pogrom against Bengalis, and not the Pak people; which thrust them into the Indians lap who raped them even worse. They realize very well that Pak people still cry tears of blood over this. Bangladeshis, in case you didn`t know, are an extremely intelligent people.

My argument is that we all know who is the enemy. India in short. If you don`t know that remaining on these boards, you never will. Unless of-course you`re an Indian. In that case, good luck. I mean that.

Sh. Mujib yes ... looked towards India and got what he deserved, and after him the Indians pulled up even the rail tracks in B`Desh and sold them for scrap. So that`s the lesson B`Deshis learnt that pak was levying taxes on petrol in W. Pak for them in their time of distress while their liberator India stripped them naked without mercy.

And now, my friend, I know as a personal fact by associating with B`Deshis in my line of work that they go to great lengths in reminding us they were at one time part of Pak. Surprising, but true. We try to avoid the painful subject but they keep coming out with this E.Pak thing in trying to show kinship. ..

I have never seen a more shameless, dishonest, utterly despicable person on this planet befoe this AH. At least be a man and admit what your so called faujis perpetrated in Bangladesh. Don`t try to whitewash it like a castrated coward...

Read all about what caused the bengalis distress you shameless SOB...From your own chowk no less...

Operation Searchlight

#19 by taikonaut

Where does India come in on this? Hey ... you`re getting delusional. The last person the Tribals want to have anything to do with is India. Don`t you know? Sh. Mujib yes ... looked towards India and got what he deserved, and after him the Indians pulled up even the rail tracks in B`Desh and sold them for scrap. So that`s the lesson B`Deshis learnt that pak was levying taxes on petrol in W. Pak for them in their time of distress while their liberator India stripped them naked without mercy.

And now, my friend, I know as a personal fact by associating with B`Deshis in my line of work that they go to great lengths in reminding us they were at one time part of Pak. Surprising, but true. We try to avoid the painful subject but they keep coming out with this E.Pak thing in trying to show kinship.

But we`re not talking about E.Pak. We`re talking about the FATA. Let`s keep these valiant patriots on our side. If you don`t, you will live to regret it. Think my friend. They have Afghanistan to go to because their friends the Taliban will prevail over there, but we`ll lose our friends FATA, and gain fearless enemies.

Re: # 18 by zeemax on November 20, 2006 6:53am PT
sez ``repeat the same mistake you made in E.Pak?``.

Here comes E. Pak.

Ok dude, just two questions for ya!

Who is going to to do the bidding for Hindus this time?
Are you going to be the Sh. Mujib?

Anyone lecturing us with B`Desh, should remember that Sh. Mujib, his family`s men, women, kids, everyone was turned into a pile of minced meat. Only one member survived. And yes! the bad deed was done by none other than the BDeshis themselves.

Sh. Mujib was a hero and a leader in Pakistan. Had he played his cards right, had he been a little patient, he would have been the leader of a a large country. Instead he embarked on the politics of terror and mayhem, and ended up under a lot of rubble soon after Pak army left BDesh.

And why to go back to the past? Look at the present. Just pick up the newspapers and see what`s happenin in Sonar Bangla these days.

So do not threaten us with 1971. You may get what Sh. Mujib got.

#17 by taikonaut

Noone threatened anyone with bombings before this event. Did they? What`s happening is a reaction to the totally uncalled for extra judicial massacre of Pakistani citizens who were never a threat to Pak. It may well be that they were going back and forth to fight with Taliban on the other side but even then, so what? The tribals do NOT recognise the Durand line, and consider South Afghanistan their home as much as their side of the border. For them, there is simply no border and it is included in their constitutional freedoms that they can go back and forth without any travel documents but just a local card. Perfectly legal.

And Gen Musharraf has only learnt the bitter lesson in Waziristan therefore back to the negotiating table and therefore this statement. Further, this statement has unwittingly provided the proof that it wasn`t the Pak`s doing but the usual american heavy-handedness which Pak had no chopice but to cover-up.

Re the Bajori Mullah Liaqat, no doubt he was a local Taliban. But you have to understand that Taliban is NOT a terrorist outfit and merely represents deeply religious tribal people on both sides of the border. Why do you find it beneath your dignity or so difficult to talk to them? Why do you want to kill them all? These are your own citizens BTW. Do you want to repeat the same mistake you made in E.Pak?

Re: # 16 by zeemax on November 20, 2006 0:29am PT

``Gen Musharraf has declared that the war against Taliban ................``

First you threaten the rest of Pakistan with Arab-style suicide bombing, and now you are quoting / agreeing with Gen. Musharraf?

Are you agreeing (or denying) that Bajori Mullah Liaqat was a Talibanic meance?

#15 by taikonaut

It is strange that while even Gen Musharraf has declared that the war against Taliban in Afghanistan is unwinnable through military action alone, you are of the opinion that it is winnable on Pak side of the border?

Re: # 14 Bajor tribals are more than welcome to look for their own interests. In fact Mullah Flowerbody (Gulbadan) Hikmatyar is already doing it on the other side of the border. Precisely this style of ``protecting the interests`` has utterly destroyed Kabul, Kandhar, and Jalalabad.

Bajori Mullah Liaqat was an agent of the terrorists Bin Laden and Zawahiri. These Mullahs from Bajore and Wazirastan have sold their soul to communists and Indians, and happily married off their women to Arabs. Thanks to these illicit unions, they have been killing their brothers from Afridi, Hazara, and Punjabi tribes.

Suicide bombing is an Arab trait that Bajoris just used against their brothers outside an army base. What else could one expect from them?

You appear to threaten the rest of the country with cowardly suicide bombings. That sure is a possibility. We may see more terrorism a la Middle Eastern style where ``smart`` tribals express their anger by killing their own brothers. The same tribals have apparently exploded bombs in Peshawar and Lahore during Communits invasion too.

However we will protect (as long as we could) our cities of Peshawar, Bannu, and Kohat from turning into bombed out copies of Kabul. And yes we have to protect ourselves with iron resolve unlike those Afghani communists.

#13 by taikonaut

Pak has made a terrible mistake for which it will have to pay very dearly. Whatever TNSM or Sufi Mohammad may be, they have tremendous public support in their areas. It is a direct result of disenfranchisement by the Pakistani state that the Bajaur tribals have learnt not to expect anything from Pakistan but to look after their interests in their own way. Regardless, however, their overall loyalties remained with Pakistan ... i.e. till now.

There is little doubt that the 82 killed in the madrassa were all innocent students and their teachers. No arms or explosives or any other military type gear was found or made public in that supposedly `terrorist` camp. Of-course, Pakistan has succeeded in making them `terrorists` now and that too against Pakistan, not anyone else. Brilliant!

The spate of bombings in Peshawar and Lahore is sufficient evidence of an oncoming civil confrontation, which only the most naive will underestimate. It is a tragedy of monumental proportions, the impact of which will be clear in time to come.

Anyone who knows the Pushtoon tribals will agree to the age old adage that ``You can take them to hell through friendly persuasion, but they won`t accompany you even to heaven if it is by force.``

The author says and I quote ``God wishes to destroy, He makes them blind first``. What if we apply the same blindness test on Sufi Mohammad or Mullah Liaqat and this sycophantic organization called ``TSNM or Tehrike Nifaze Sharaite Mohammd``? FYI TNSM has wrecked havoc in Malakand for many many years. These blind Mullahs who led other tribal blinds into battles with American troops. The blind were equipped with latest weapons such as axes, AK47 who tried to defeat ``Gora Amreekee`` in Kabul. Few daisy cutters and the Talibanic friends of these ``blind`` TNSMis ran from Kabul with their tails behind the legs. While TNSMi blinds got stuck in Kabul and then brought so much shame to Pakistan.

It is sad to see such essays who are nothing but old lefties trying to stir up trouble in FATA and NWFP. So far Pak army has been able to stop their tribal kins. God forbid the day Pak army fails, our cities like Bannu, Kohat, and Mardan will become as ``beautiful`` as Talibanic Leftie bombed out models like Jalabad, Kabul, and Kandhar.

May Allah save Pakistan from this unholy alliance of lefties and tribal Mullahs.

Ghouri is a former ambassador (ie; bureaucrat) who is naturally
averse to force, but in this instance, force, overwhelming force,
is the only language that these hillbillies understand.

The source of all trouble in Afghanistan and Pak side of the border
is Heroin Money. Billions of dollars being pumped into the Taliban
coffers, which is then used to corrupt the Pashtun in the tribal belt.
Brand new jeeps, guns, rockets, bullets are being bought to finance
the jihad against NATO forces and occasionally these are turned
against FC checkposts in Pakistan. This has to be checked.

Musharraf is spot-on, that our biggest challange of tommorow is
not from Al-Qaida, but the Talibans. Pakistan must crush any
attempt to `Talibanize` Pakistani territory.

#8 by HP on November 17, 2006 1:01pm PT

Goatbrain...still living in denial...It was the CIA that bombed the madrassah...the paki army helicopters came afterwards...and they bombed a few hills so they would like like impotents who got off a few shots rather than just plain impotents...

HP sain,

It is OK with me either ways, whether u bomb them or make love with them, just don`t bring in the natives of the state where I was born into the picture.

Regards

The authour seems to have Malice towards Gen. Musharaff. General in very difficult situation is trying to wrestle contol from terrorist and establish law and order which is very important and some ties in such situation there is law and order but no justice. The writer should understand even if he does not like military rule he represents pakistan. And people should keep this thing in mind. Things are not easy for any body to critic army rule is very easy but is there any other betterway? Democracy demise was tragedy but then democracy is farce and has no value. The poeple of Pakistan was army rule to continue up 20012 and give second term to Present president. There is lots of problems all around. In B.Stan there going national disintegration and terrorist forces are blowing up electric pylons and gas lines and now rails to disrupt and attacks on national assets. Tribal talibans of pakistani verson are trying to establish parrarel govt and make GOP redundant. So how general can allow them such things, he can not. As a president it is his constitunional duty to not allow any other governing bodies. General has big plans for pakistan, where it will become enevy of subcontinental countries. He can not allow tribal to become overlord. Please give next 6 years to present president to give results.
future Pakistan is becoming transit for oil, gas and refinaries and hydrocarbon processing of giant special at big port G. Soon refineries will be built bigger than jamnagar of India. They are designing refineries which can process light as well as heavy Arabian crudes with large sulphur and by products of distillation it self be 5 billion dollars. Three refineris are on drawing for specially high speed disel and also fertilizer plants based on Iranian and Turkmen natural gas. This huge pipe lines converging fron gulf and Iran and cental are coming at big Gport. This is going to require huge digging and laying pipelines. All big earth movers want to be pakistan to have part of this big projects. Now China president is coming for 7 days while spend only 3 days India, real snub from super power.
To have this possible need stopping of terrorism or pipe lines will burst, so GOP is getting hard with terrorist. Talibani terrorist are holding economic future of country, so one can understand armys explosive response.
I hope this clarifies why terrorist not be tolerated and should be faught on groung, on water and in air. And army is doing same in this some things go wrong, in big fire both dry and wet grass burns and land becomes clear. Hope few more people will agree with me. Part of Sabse Pehala Pakistan id liquidation of Talibani terrorist and fellow travellers. Let us support state of pakistan and general for his fight for preservation of nation and frustrate terrorist people.

#5 Dada,

If you hit them, you are doing American bidding. If you negotiate with them, you are helping them. Classic catch 22....The irony must amuse someone...

Btw, if these guys were really planning some terrorist acts, a little pre-emption is not bad from the Pak army. What gives credence to the Pak army is that these guys from Bajour actually sent people to retaliate against the army. So, there really was something cooking in Bajour...

Re: # 4

Khasis are a ethnic group living in North East India. I hope you are not slandering them :-)

....How about the Lure of Bounty Money.....!!!


They have already scopped up ........

about 6 to 7 Billions Dollars of It....!!

HP sain,

Your choppers bomb and strafe your own countrymen at the behest of Americans and you are venting your anger on the poor Khasis (sic) of Bihar.

Regards

``One wonders what Charles may have inferred from macho Musharraf blatantly upping the political ante in the most sensitive region of Pakistan to mesh with the royal visit?``


Who cares what Prince Charles thinks. This is a typical slavish approach by people born in Bihar and influenced by Khasi traditions of central India.

Eye- witness accounts speak of American unmanned aircraft, the stealthy drone, raining down several of those dreadful ‘hell-fire’ missiles
Several eye-witnessed accounts also speak of the Pakistan army gun-ships arriving on the scene, at least a good 15 to 20 minutes after the American blast and firing a few rockets into the surrounding hills.


Yup...The paki army thinks better to look like impotents who managed to fire something than impotents who can do squat about the CIA drones...

Ghori Sahib,
First a quick question? When did you write this article....I ask because of your forecasting of the November 7th US mid term electorial results.

Why do you think it is a bad idea for the Government of Pakistan to meddle in the tribal areas. Perhaps not in the way of bombing them, but better control of the tribal areas would mean that the masses would be liberated from the antiquity they live in and moved to a more modern time.

This is no analysis. It is vitriol against Musharaf and politically motivated. It belongs to some partisan magazine.