Indian Scholarships for Outstanding Pakistani Students

``You, being a hindoo, are totally ignorant of the fact that affirmative action is based on the place of birth, and not your race.``

Load of crock!!! White guys born in Africa do not get Affirmative Action.

affirmative action

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in the United States, programs to overcome the effects of past societal discrimination by allocating jobs and resources to members of specific groups, such as minorities and women. The policy was implemented by federal agencies enforcing the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and two executive orders, which provided that government contractors and educational institutions receiving federal funds develop such programs. The Equal Employment Opportunities Act (1972) set up a commission to enforce such plans. The establishment of racial quotas in the name of affirmative action brought charges of so-called reverse discrimination in the late 1970s. Although the U.S. Supreme Court accepted such an argument in Regents of the University of California v. Bakke (1978), it let existing programs stand and approved the use of quotas in 1979 in a case involving voluntary affirmative-action programs in unions and private businesses. In the 1980s, the federal government`s role in affirmative action was considerably diluted. In three cases in 1989, the Supreme Court undercut court-approved affirmative action plans by giving greater standing to claims of reverse discrimination, voiding the use of minority set-asides where past discrimination against minority contractors was unproven, and restricting the use of statistics to prove discrimination, since statistics did not prove intent. The Civil Rights Act of 1991 reaffirmed a federal government`s commitment to affirmative action, but a 1995 Supreme Court decision placed limits on the use of race in awarding government contracts; the affected government programs were revamped in the late 1990s to encompass any person who was ``socially disadvantaged.`` In the late 1990s, in a public backlash against perceived reverse discrimination, California and other states banned the use of race- and sex-based preferences in state and local programs. A 2003 Supreme Court decision concerning affirmative action in universities allowed educational institutions to consider race as a factor in admitting students as long as it was not used in a mechanical, formulaic manner

Re: # 312

Soyasauce:

I am not that familiar with the set-asides.

The programs that I talked are designed only minority-owned small businesses, and minority women owned small businesses have even easier access.

Anil

#307 anil, thanks for the explanation. However you seem to be conflating small business with minority ownership. While minority owned businesses are more likely to be small businesses, not all small businesses (not even a plurality of them) are minority owned.
If your end goal is to have a vibrant market place where innovative ideas don`t get run over by rich and powerful entities that are slow to change, then encourage ALL small businesses where they can compete with one another and may the best business win. Secondly, if you want to lift up economically depressed areas, then again encourage ANY business that`s willing to set up shop in those places.
I know what you`re saying about needing to look at this from a business vantage point and not necessarily as a moral issue, but desis, having suffered no historic discrimination are simply exploiting a loop hole as others have said.

Re:arjun2#310

[...I am doubly appalled.....I am also appalled that you think those of us who`re making the comments care about you being appalled....]

LOL!!

Arjun, when it comes to wit and sarcasm, you are the champ!! You can give hamidm a run for his money....

#304 by dost-mittar on November 20, 2006 2:54pm PT


I am as apalled by Indian posters` ridiculing behram1`s entrepreneurial skills


I am doubly appalled..

I am appalled that you think behram has any entrepreneurial skills...especially knowing that despite the AA/set-asides thing, he`s just a small time contractor and not an engineer running a big company that he founded or something...

I am also appalled that you think those of us who`re making the comments care about you being appalled.

God, people like this Dost Mitter dude make my stomach turn.

It appears that he was appaled at Behram for what he was saying about Hindoos(sic) and Hindooland(sic). However, he held back his comments all this time so that he could find something to ``balance`` it against -- you know the good old zero sum game.

Ref behram1 #285

[...Have you ever wondered why there are less Persians in the corporate world?]

Because they are all out there on their own selling rugs.

I refer to Iranians as Rug Merchants. Not the Parsis (of India, Pakistan or Iran), just the regular True Believers.

Re: # 282

Soyasouce:

Such programs in wider sense are looked as market distortions. Invariably market distortions are business opportunities.

You can no doubt look at them as expensive and someone must and always pays for it. However, in the long run they provide benefit to the society at large. The rationale for such investment view is that it eventually pays back multi-fold because eventually the purchasing power of the community increases. Thus brings more under the economic prosperity tent.

Initially, transfer of IT business to India was inefficient, and also caused job losses here. Recent McKinsey & Company study has showed that the U.S. corporations in 2 - 3 years have already reaped 60% benefit.

These programs can be viewed as investments in seeding (IT in India) or developing depressed sections (AA in the U.S.).

When people can misuse these programs, there are more who properly use and develop. People who misuse should not go unpunished.

According to Hamidm GM set-asides business. Cisco and Apple also had programs for their suppliers where they gave 5% advantage to minority owned businesses. Their program is different than set-aside, and requires them to compete with the big and established. In fact when a small business is given a 5% advantage, it ends up using it to build itself better, otherwise it can loose out to say electronic manufacturer like, Flextronics. Apple and Cisco have programs to help such small players to improve their processes, and thus create partnerships. Actually, a friend of mine`s small electronic manufacturing company graduated from such a program with Apple, and Cisco to later go public.

Also once an entreprenuer, or organizaion gets an entry ticket on the basis of merit or his / her / its vision, or value proposition, it must develop a street fighter`s instinct to pick the right fight to win, else it will loose its territory. The success is never assured.

Personal values indeed drive the fight one selects. Like Tahmed sahib commented, you and I may choose to select 100% of the pie as the target, rather than 7% set-aside. I know one extremely successful entreprenuer here in Silicon Valley, he is a Jain, and does not invest or gets involved where meat is involved. That did not prevent him from being extremely successful.

Anil

Re:DM#304

We are criticizing behram`s phony act of being some hot-shot enterpreneur doing ``real`` engineering work while looking down on Indian professionals. It turns out that he is nothing but a ``do takey`` ka minority contractor who gets crumbs from the texas state based on affirmative action. Any one else in his shoes would quietly make his living rather than have the audacity to crticize the vast number of desis who are competing openly in the marketplace.

It boggles my mind that people like him can be in so much denial of their own pathetic condition so as to adopt a phony persona and criticize other people who are far superior to them.

Re: # 293 by hamidm2 on November 20, 2006 11:42am PT

[... stop quibbling and let`s see if we can get a piece of this pie - it is biiiiig! ...gm spent $5.6B with minority suppliers last year ...] And that is exactly what corporate America does best, other than screw the real shareholders.

[..if i could get a contract supplying toilet paper to half the gm plants in north america i wouldn`t be here wasting my time talking to you guys -] Just imagine what could be done in Hindoo Land with all those toilet papers!!!!!!

[ i`d be on the beach in the bahamas sipping one of those drinks with an umbrella in it ...]

And hopefully far away from the nuisance of humanity, otherwise also known as Hindoos, huh!

It seems that some of the deformed hindoos on this chowk have taken some extra mirchain. Kiya haal hain hindoun ka? Laagi hay phut phut kiya.

I am as apalled by Indian posters` ridiculing behram1`s entrepreneurial skills as I am of his utterly distasteful comments about Hindoos and Hindooland. Behram is not the first or the last South Asian to make use of the Affirmative Action Program. I am sure the list would include not only Indians and Pakistanis but also Japanese, Chinese and even Arabs. The list of people eliegible for Affirmative Action is ridiculous - Mediterranean Syrians, Lebanese and Egyptians qualify while similarly looking Greeks and Turks don`t but anyone who qualifies for these benefits and does not make use of them is not a true entrepreneur. This is no different from using all kinds of subsidies available for investing in certain regions or certain industries. As an earlier Canadian politician used to say, corporate welfare bums use more tax subsidies than poor people.

Re:behram#292

[..What has merit got to do with being an entrepreneur?...]

Spoken like a true Affirmative Action quota guy. Of course, merit has nothing to do with you or your business, since you do not compete on the basis of merit. You just get work based on the color of your skin. Thank your stars that the white people in US are generous to give you this handout - a charity in fact. In any other country, they would toss your incompetent non-meritorious ass to the curb.

let me re-post what Indian companies are doing without any form of quota or set-asides..

Wipro bags $300 m GM outsourcing deal

in the meantime, behram is stuck being a smalltime contractor doing smalltime jobs..and that too only because he`s using AA..

About 300 of India-Pakistan bashing without the word `Macaca`!!!

I wonder what`s the reason. Must be something to do with Zeemax`s absence till now

Or is it because `Macacas` have finally done something worthwhile?

Handover the Senate to Democrats!

;-)

- Avkrishna

#296 Zeemax has the answer in #294 - behram is overcompensating for lack of intelligence by abuse.

#293 hamidm: please...none of this ``I wouldnt join any club that would take a loser like me as member`` nonsense on chowk. You may see yourself in a certain light, but I am sure there are many other members of chowk who could - if they wanted to, and this includes myself - already be sipping alcohol in the bahamas instead of clicking to chowk. So - just speak for yourself. :-)