Indian Scholarships for Outstanding Pakistani Students

#397 Sadna,

Unlike you I hate to cut and paste articles but here is something that will open your eyes to the realities in Afghanistan. Mrs. Malalai Joya is the only person in Afghanistan who supports secularism.
The reality in Afghanistan is entirely different than your single track mind. Afghanistan is still very much a taliban country. The US failed to push enough buttons in that area to change the situation there.
Read this and cry like many khasis do...that will help you get a life...


KABUL, Afghanistan -- One of Afghanistan`s leading members of parliament, Mrs. Malalai Joya, warns that the current U.S. policy in Afghanistan is virtually certain to lead to another 9/11.
Joya has a unique perspective. In 2003, she blew the whistle on warlords and drug traffickers whom she said were being incorporated into the Afghan government. Ever since, she has received death threats on a daily basis.

``The circle — of terrorism, drug lords, and warlords ... will be complete when the Taliban comes in,`` she warns.

Any interview with Malalai Joya involves an element of risk. The hazards begin with a taxi driver who doesn`t know where the parliament building is. He stops to ask directions from a fruit vendor, then races down one of Kabul`s dusty roads past half-collapsed buildings that are riddled with bullet holes.

``Taliban!`` he yells, by way of explanation. ``Much fighting here!``
Upon arriving at the parliament building, I`m escorted into an unmarked car and informed that the meeting will be elsewhere. I`m driven to a house somewhere in Kabul.

A Prisoner of Fear
Bodyguards search me while other armed men wait outside the door. When I finally meet Joya, she apologizes profusely. Both her house and her office have been attacked, she explains, and she sleeps in a different place every night.

``For me it is torture to have these bodyguards,`` she says. ``But I have to have them while fighting against the warlords and gangs, and especially since I`m young. If I want to do something for my people, I have to stay alive and it`s painful. But on the other hand, if I look at all the people that live under bad security conditions in Afghanistan, I at least have protection.``

An attractive woman, smaller than expected and just 27 years old, Joya`s dark eyes belie an honest intensity that has won her both loyal friends and mortal enemies. She has made it her mission to help her country fulfill the promises of fair and just governance made after the Taliban were overthrown.

The so-called ``Northern Alliance,`` a coalition of regional and religious organizations, governed Afghanistan from 1992 to 1996 before one of its member groups, the Taliban, took over the government. After a U.S.-led coalition in 2001 ousted the Taliban regime in response to the 9/11 attacks, Northern Alliance figures were appointed to government positions despite their extensive and well-documented history of human rights abuses.
And from Joya`s perspective, that`s the biggest problem Afghanistan now faces.

Malalai Joya says the former Mujahideen - ``warlords who have now learned how to talk about democracy and women and how to wear a suit and a tie`` - are no better than the Taliban: ``Every country that wants to prove itself as real and honest friends of the Afghan people must stop following the policy of the U.S., because this is not a real democracy and this is not a real war on terror. At one hand they are saying `we fight the Taliban` and on the other we have members of parliament who are Taliban. The only way is to stop this policy. If they don`t stop this policy, I am sure that one day there will be another September 11. Another September 11 will happen — because they are like the Taliban [and] they will act like the Taliban.``

Keeping the Warlords at Bay

Joya says, ``Look, they want again an office of `vice and virtue,` just like the Taliban had, and which they used as a pretext for their crimes. This is the reason we want a secular government. With a secular government, they cannot commit their crimes in the name of Islam. Or in the name of Jihad. Until these warlords, these drug lords, who right now have the support of the U.S. and its allies in our country, until they become powerless, our people can never hope for democracy, women rights, human rights, and especially security in Afghanistan.``

As one example of the approach that Joya objects to, Sen. Bill Frist, R-Tenn., while visiting Afghanistan two weeks ago, voiced his support for efforts to bring ``people who call themselves Taliban into a larger, more representative government.``

She says these are the same ``warlords and drug lords [who] committed lots of crimes when they were in power under the name of jihad and even now are committing lots of crimes under the name of jihad and Islam.``

Joya dismisses the current talk about Pakistan supporting the Taliban. That, she says, is a deliberate distraction from what she claims is the real issue: the presence of criminals in the current government and the crimes they commit with impunity.

She says one member of parliament is known to have killed two children and thrown them in a river. Another, she says, used to kidnap people and put them in his personal jail.
``But nobody discusses this inside the parliament,`` she says. ``When I try to discuss it, they threaten me. So I ask you, are these the Pakistan-supported terrorists?``

The people who control parliament also support the Taliban, Joya says.

``I have received reports, for example, that a car loaded with weapons went from Kabul to the Logar province and they were captured. The investigation showed that it belonged to people in power and they wanted to give it to the Taliban,`` she says.
Today there are 31,000 NATO soldiers keeping the peace in Afghanistan as part of the International Assistance Security Force (IASF). The IASF force includes 11,250 soldiers from the United States; 5,200 from Britain; 2,750 from Germany; and 2,100 from the Netherlands, plus forces from 33 other countries.

Willing to Rebuild — But Safely

Joya says Afghans will ``rebuild their country with their bare hands`` as long as there is security, and if the international community stops supporting the ``warlordism government,`` as she calls it. The warlords, she adds, should be brought to justice before the International Criminal Court.
``If they want, they can do this,`` Joya states. She points out that in 2005, a London court convicted former warlord Faryadi Sarwar Zardad for torture and murder.
``Most of these criminals that are now in power were like Zardad`s teachers. He was their student,`` she says.

``I`d like to remind you how easy it was,`` she adds, ``for the U.S. to destroy the government of the Taliban. It was very easy when they wanted it, right after 9/11. And I would like to tell you, and especially those countries around the world that support these criminals who are now in the government, that they have the same ideals as the Taliban. One day, they will do another September 11. They are more dangerous than the Taliban right now because they are in power.``

Re:DrDr #404

[..behram shud make a mocumentary `cultural learnings of AA for make benefit glorious nation of zorastristan`....]

He he!! It gets better and better....

Actually, since Behram claims that he has never worked in a corporation or an university, I wonder how he got his green card. Must be marriage fraud, probably to some latino or black in Texas. That would be in line with his Affirmative Action situation.

#407 by stuka on November 21, 2006 3:38pm PT


Also, as Urstruly mentioned, Indian education system stops at applied knowledge and does not provide ideology :)


your school teaches kabab...

the maulana wants kabab and jihad(and a goat for you know what)....

Swarrier / Zeemax:

``Come to think of it ... hotel management is a great discipline which is somehow taught best in Austria for some reason ... Even though it is vocational too, but teaches a lot of soft skills ... like how to serve a rich relative who happened along when you`re serving tables ... hmmm``

For the record, there isn`t just the one college in Mumbai. There are 15 GOVERNMENT managed ones and umpteen private ones. I am a graduate of the Delhi IHM, the corresponding equal to the Dadar one that Warrier mentioned.

The three year course (I believe now its 4 years) provides all the disciplines (Food Production, Food and Beverage Services, Guest Services and Housekeeping) along with typical business courses like accounting, management, marketing, basic info systems etc. In India (also in Salzburg, Sweden etc) you graduate with enuff technical knowledge to move in to the kitchen or the front of the house side. In US, you basically adopt one stream or the other and graduate as a specialist.

Come to think of it, Hotel Management is one field where India should give scholarships to Pakistanis. Our college was already doing so for Tanzanians etc. When I came to the states as an undergrad transfer, all the Pakistanis were transfers from European schools and yet they were middle class kids who had to scrimp and save. They said Pakistan does not have preoper univ / college level courses.

Also, as Urstruly mentioned, Indian education system stops at applied knowledge and does not provide ideology :)

Well, hotel management is one field which does not even have the pretence of ideology. It is applied knowledge alone and the field also caters to people who have no ideology to speak off. I speak from experience here. Aslo, its one field where Pakistanis will find cultural similarity. I think ours was the only school where cooking beef steaks was part of the curriculum as well as the cafeteria menu. And I cannot imagine potential Jihadi type mixing cocktails and puring wine in beverage class.

#401 by Urstruly on November 21, 2006 2:10pm PT


Why didn`t you immigrate to the glorious islamic welfare state of the taliban rather than coming to the evil empire?

Re: # 394 by ranjit on November 21, 2006 12:38pm PT

Once agian taking refuge with someone with autism eh?

{Come to think of it, we should call behram the ``parsee bhangi`` for his use of affirmative action....no offence to bhangis intended.....}

Ofcourse not because you are yourself a bhangi.

Have you not had enough of your black hiney kicked back to your squatters land that now you are wondering around for some Hindoo support for thos who are bonafied bipolar or that cut&paste autistic idiot, huh.

behram shud make a mocumentary `cultural learnings of AA for make benefit glorious nation of zorastristan`

#401
You really need to get beyond the ISI and drug mafia`s propaganda in the Pak Urdu Press that the Taliban were presiding over happy and well fed citizens in a drug free welfare state. Alternate information which directly contradicting your dearly-held beliefs is readily available all over the place and to seek it is your responsibility as a thinking individual.

#400
How can it be cruel to point out one example where the compassion of God was explicitly incorporated in the workings of the state :)

I may be mistaken but I think in traditional hindoo-ism the ideal raja`s duty to his subjects is part of his own karma/dharma/rap sheet also, in which God may or maynot intercede to help him later.

Re: # 398

Thank you for mentioning Saudi Arabia, which is very close to what a Muslim welfare state should be. The only caveate here is their economic system i.e. 95% of their GDP is based on oil but so was once that of Scandanevian states who emerged as the top resources for the metal and other mined commodities in 17th, 18th, and 19th century. As a matter of fact the 90% of the post renaissance industrial revolution needs for metals was fulfilled by the Scandanevian countries and that is how they established their welfare states. Please keep in mind that no Scandanevian country has ever colonized a foreign land.

Now what Saudis have done with their natural wealth is quite astonishing. The sprawling cities, with sky scrapers, a highway system and other infrastructure; the free health care, free education, pension system, law, and justice all indicate towards a well functioning welfare state which is envied all around the globe. With 20 years of sanctions, Libya has done quite well; and hasd Iran and iraq not engaged in the 10 year conflict, these two countries would have well surpassed saudi arabia by now.

But this wealth of Arabs have created a myth that a welfare state is only possible with an unobstructed source of wealth like oil. The Talibans were the myth breakers. They proved that a just welfare state is also possible when you have nothing in your hand.

1. First of all they established rule of law and justice ina war torn country which was being ravaged by infighting and civil war. Compare that to Americans and Western invaders; with their most horrible war machine they have not been able to establish one day of peace in that country. The bottom line is that it is the justice that establishes peace ina country and not the oppression and heavy handedness.

2. Second, today Afghanistan`s 30% of economy is based on drug smuggling and it provides 90% of world`s drug demand. In Taliban`s time, according to West`s own propaganda machinery in year 1999-2000 the total drug production in whole Afghanistan was 85 kilograms. That was the time when Talibans could have made lot of cash through drugs when they needed it most.

3. The established a system of pensions for widows and stipends for war orphans alongwith those women who had no one left in their families to earn a living; after they established that they forced all streetwalkers to stay at home. West where 75% population is born out of wedlock called that oppression.

4. The established food banks (mostly with the help of Paksitani charities, which was later dubbed as terrorist organizations- Al-Rashid Trust being at the forefront) all around the country where cooked food was distributed two times a day to those who could not afford it.

5. The Taliban time was the only time in history since 1979, when Afghan refugees were going back to their country on their own. At one time the refugee population in Pakistan came down to 1.7 to 1.8 million from 3.8 million since soviet invasion. Today in Pakistan more than 4.5 million of them are again seeking refuge. This indicates that even with the poverty and heavy handedness of Talibans the indeginous people were feeling safe to go back to their homes and make a living.

So yes the Talibans did establish a welfare state according to the standards of poorest countries of the world. They also debunked the myth that a welfare state can only be established when nation is acutely rich.

#397 u can be very cruel some time..

warrier, i must protest, there have been some food related colleges in mumbai for a while...the catering college, the SNDT home-science lab, and Sophia College. plus these schools have little to do with gourmet anything.

but i agree that use of education for filling own and childrens bellys is the best usage ever, esp if the bellys are empty. all other usages are moot.

respectfully submitted.

PS:
I guess for some people, Saudi Arabia is the closest thing to Allah there is in this world.

The rest of us, being without values and hence not being in receipt of bounty from God, actually have to generate wealth by our own efforts before we can spend it on the welfare of our less fortunate compatriots. So if earning our own keep instead of being indebted to Saudi Arabia causes the above-mentioned to call us value-less and compassionless capitalists, so be it.

The Taliban took the idea of the values-driven welfare state to its logical culmination - they said they were not responsible for the Afghan population because Allah would provide.

#395

For example, in Scandanevia, which is the poster child of a what a typical modern welfare state should be, the set of principles that it bases it welfare system upon is still called ``Omar`s law`` - Omar (ra) being the second righteous Caliph of Muslims.

I went out to lunch with a Norwegian friend and informed him how his country was being run according to ``Omar-ian principle`s``. I could deliver his response to you here, but I think ``chowk-staff`` would filter it out.

Re: # 391 Dost

I do not propound a utopia; what I insist upon is the accountability, rule of law, and compassion for your fellow citizen. Yes, West has come close to this utopia, but they are not the pioneers. For example, in Scandanevia, which is the poster child of a what a typical modern welfare state should be, the set of principles that it bases it welfare system upon is still called ``Omar`s law`` - Omar (ra) being the second righteous Caliph of Muslims. So in other words, what was made possible in 7th century AD, has been made possible in this day and age.

But this vision has been stolen from a common Muslim by a corrupt oppressive class. The intelligentia belongs to this class and relentlessly pumps this hopelessness into the minds of the people that a Muslim welfare state is impossible. A deliberately made confused curriculum produces graduates who are mindless, who are immoral, and who do not possess a sense of what is right and what is wrong. I know, more than half of my classmates in Pakistan had a vision and stated objective of becoming corrupt bureucrates or engineers and they actively sought employment in the organizations with ``ooper ki aamdni``. Saddly none had an entreprenuereal mindset; and none was even sure that he would be able to make an honest and halal living after graduation.

On the other hand India has a similar problem. The mindset of an average Indian do not think on the lines of a welfare state. In addition, a vicious upper echelon enforces a heartless and cruel Capitalism where only fittest can survive. If you ask an average Indian, most prominently on this website, about a less fortunate fellow citizen the answer is just a shrug and at the most a tirade about how clumsy the less unfortunate are and how it is their own fault being poor and uneducated; I would present evidence of this fact as Exhibit A, which is the Indian Muslims thread on this website. I know Muslims are an extraordinary case but the mindset encompasses all unfortunate.