Indian Scholarships for Outstanding Pakistani Students

The scholarship idea is well-meant but is a non-starter.

Look, we are the same people – India is not an unknown country to Pakistanis and vice versa and there is no fundamental difference between the two – like the differences there exist between Europe and Asia.

There is precious little to “learn”! There is precious little to discover what we don’t already know!

Those who care to find out – they already know whatever there is to find – and it is so obvious. Those who deliberately pretend to not know – including a chunk of Pakistani crowds here, they will never know, because their falsity overcomes any real desire to know.

If the Pakistani students are really outstanding, they can get scholarship anywhere – why would they come to India?!! In effect, one would end up with a bunch of mediocre crop and more subversive plants from the Pakistani khakis – what does one need them for?!!

Why ask for more grief – we have had our fill already!

Building up trust and goodwill is easy if the Pakistanis start walking their talk – which they have forever had the option of doing. Stop pumping those Jihadis, and hand over the international smuggler as a sign of goodwill – for starters!

Anything less, and it’s the same old wolf still hiding under that cover – and the cover is wearing pretty thin now through overuse.

No segment of the Pakistani population has shown any real desire or even appetite for either building up goodwill or even for improving their own lot!

If they had, they would be openly asking and answering this simple question – if they had any guts!

Was the creation of Pakistan the looniest of ideas?!!

Or was it THE looniest of ideas?!

``Also, IIM Ahamedabad (or Bangalore) just got a clearance to open an institute in Singapore, after great opposition from Arjun Singh the present minister of education in India. May be Pakistan should talk to these institute to open on in Pakistan also.

Indian resources are insufficient to cater Indians of all communities, we just had that discussions elsewhere on Chowk``

I would disagree!! Indian Muslims should be infact getting any such scholarships that may be offered to to the Pakistani muslims who would any way be misfits in multi-cultural India with their background of Pak Historiography. We are indeed short of resources for our own students and we need to do something about it before offering domestic facilities to overseas students.
A good idea would be to let IIT-s and IIM-s open institute in PAkistan to cater to the demands of Pakistani students. Would that happen? I doubt. It would be a big blow to the puffed up egos of their elites like HP and they would immediately raise questions about allowing ``enemy`` state to open institutes of indoctrination!!.

Dear Q. Isa Daudpota Sahib:

Quantity is no substitute for quality. You assert that

{Today India has 300 universities and over 15 thousand colleges, and churns out 2.5 million graduates each year. Among them are 350 thousand engineers, twice the number the US produces.}

Yet, in a recent article in The Economist, the writer claimed that less than 10% (or 35,000) of those churned out engineers are capable of working in an MNC. Look at MNCs currently employing locally graduated engineers, and you might get an idea of how useless Indian engineers are.

Heck, I have been arguing this very same point on the Bajuar site, that India has lost producing good quality engineers for the last 20 years or so. And those that may be degreed in the old economy engineering get sucked into the new technology, that is not considered as engineering at all.

Will continue reading your article, and would make comments as needed.

Respectfully submitted,

anil #80:.......i tend to agree with you...........

there are two groups of people i have seen in the usa, who are better than what i have seen anywhere else........these are professors/researchers and business leaders/entreprenuers............i have found the rest of usa to be quite mediocre.......american politicians are quite naive, with very little knowledge of the rest of the world.........americans on the whole are not the hardest working people in the world......barring the top 5%, american students are quite average.....

.....but us professors and business leaders are excellent......george bush could not hold his own on chowk, much less in un........however, bill gates and jack welch would be better than anyone in china or europe.......and american professors/researchers will continue to win nobel prizes hands down.......

.........top pakistani students would only go to IIT level universities in india......i doubt they would be interesting in going anywhere else........the top pakistani universities are probably as good as the top indian universities (barring the top 1% or less).....to give you an example, gik in pakistan was ranked 9th in asia/australia, within a few years after its creation - ahead of nearly all top indian and australian and japanese universities.......then gik started losing faculty and went down....

....thus the only those pakistani students will go to india, who cannot get into any pakistani university........it is too big of a culture and social change to go to another country to study, if one cannot see any direct economic gain.......

.........however, i believe pakistani professors would go.......i would not go to india to study.........but i would like to go to teach or to work in business for a year or two.......

.........the best thing for pakistan would be to get a large group of indian professors into pakistan, somehow........and in certain areas (like IT) get indian executives to come and work for a few years.........

........i have started working with lums in pakistan now........they offered me a position to come and teach as visiting faculty, for a semester or two.......lums has a student body as good as any you will see in usa........its facilities are as good as any small university in usa........it has a good enough faculty...........but it could grow to many time its size, i think, if it had more faculty.........i don`t know if this is accurate, but i was told they have to pay their vice chancellor/dean 8 lakh ruppees per month plus facilities, and even their junior professors get paid in lakh(s)......my guess is this is probably quite a bit more than any university in india would pay........

..........the above is because of low supply of professors and high demand in pakistan........indian professors would get a big pay raise if they came to teach in pakistan (i think)........to give you an idea of the shortage........according to my somewhat anecdotal research, pakistan has no more than 50 ph.ds in comp sci in the whole country!.......infact perhaps 30.........that is less than many large single universities` comp. sci depts. in north america...........

.......the number of pakistani students who go abroad to study is well into the tens of thousands.......in addition, a significant amount of pakistanis from middle east send their kids abroad (even for bachelors degrees)..........there could be ten profitable lums in pakistan, i feel, if the faculty was available........

.........it would be a win-win situation for both parties.......indian professors fill a vacuum, at very high salaries (higher than what they would get in india), which pakistanis are willing to pay very high salaris for...........pakistani private universities expand and attract pakistanis who are going abraod.........

.............in addition, pakistan has very low level executive skills in areas like IT.......indian upper middle managers in large companies could become ceos and vps in pakistani companies..........i was in touch with a pakistani company which was being assisted by the ex head of QA for infosys (?), who had taken his company in india to CMMi-5.......

........there are areas in which this would go in the other direction also...........according to world bank vp shahid javed burki, pakistan is ahead of india in some areas, as well..........

This idea is good but it has probems. In case of war what will happen to students how they can return fast ? If Kashmir problem solved then things can work.
This can be used for brotherly countries , Iran, Egypt,Turkey Palestine,Indonesia, Thiland, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, emerging central asian sultanates ( even Iraq , Afghanistan,also after things are peaceful) as we have good knowledge of India and Indian ways but we have no knowledge of above countries. US,UK,England,Russia etc are ok but they have proble is that students do not come back it will not happen that way. But if Indian govt provides scholarships people should take advantages that should be at IIT type famous colleges and we can also train indians in management studies at Lahore`s prestgeous management college. or In Karachi( engg colleges) in irrigation, canal etc as we have most done in that area.

Dear Q. Isa Daudpota Sahib:

I hope you are reading some of the interacts on this board. You may not have time to respond to some of us, and that is understandable.

But, maybe you are influential enough to use it on the HEC in Islamabad, and their ranking system that is based primarily on the worst kind of ethnicity. If you can bring some modicum of intellectual honesty in this group it will be well advised. Those of us who are outside Pakistan have a very clear picture of what is happening in the realm of Pakistani higher education. Actually, recently we had a huge e-mail circulation amongst people from my alma mater about this same issue.

On your trip to India, you may want to take Cowasjee along with you and on the way get an earful of what your bureaucrats have done to NED Engineering University, Karachi, one of the oldest in Pakistan.

What is needed is not a relationship with Indian teachers or professors, what is needed is a relationship amongst all the different ethnicity of Pakistanis. Providing good quality fruits of Pakistan to the hate mongers in India is really not needed. If you want some cultural exchange a better option would be with Iran, whose educational structure is second to none.

Yes, yes, you could argue about the English medium of study that is not there in Iran. Does Japan have english educational medium? or Does China have good English educational system?

Presently, Indian culture contributes nothing but hate towards anything that is Pakistani, and that is a fact. Unfortunately for them, Pakistan is on its western borders, and the wind always blows from Pakistan to India, and also becuase India sucks.

Respectfully submitted,

Dear Romair:

Stop being part of a mutual admiration society with an Indian, please.

And you are being intellectually dishonest. Indians in the west have nothing similar with Pakistanis. Just look at their history. Indians and Pakistanis are totally different in forms and behavior. You being a Punjabi, might fight some similarity amongst your ethnic people, but I can guarantee you that intellectually the two Punjabis are totally different.

As for the background in education is concerned, there seems to be no Indian engineer in the old economy, and if you want to argue some hi-tech nonsense, then that is not where Pakistan`s immediate future lies.

As usual, with both side of your brains, and having lack of focus, you write...

{........these are professors/researchers and business leaders/entreprenuers............i have found the rest of usa to be quite mediocre.......}

Actually, being a kitaabi keera is all what Indians are, and you consider that is what Pakistanis should emulate. What was the last programming language these code coolies have invented? Stop blowing irresponsible air by suggesting...

{.........americans on the whole are not the hardest working people in the world......barring the top 5%, american students are quite average..... }

You have defied any intellectual honesty that some might say that you have. Americans are the most productive worker in the world. Your opinion is totally strange.

Then you go on to comment{.....but us professors and business leaders are excellent......}

What sort of jibbersih post is that? Then you bring in

{george bush could not hold his own on chowk, much less in un........however, bill gates and jack welch would be better than anyone in china or europe.......and american professors/researchers will continue to win nobel prizes hands down....... }

Are you getting some opium from Afghanistan?

{.......indian upper middle managers in large companies could become ceos and vps in pakistani companies..........}

Yeah, rite. Will your military want that? eh!

{........there are areas in which this would go in the other direction also...........according to world bank vp shahid javed burki, pakistan is ahead of india in some areas, as well..........}

Pakistan is ahead of India is all its core competency and that is what matters. Go read Michael Porter`s book on National Core Competency before you make any more post.

Respectfully submitted,

behram: what I want to know is why romair insists on apeing hamidm with his damned dots!!! i think he is doing it unconsciously. which makes it all the more irritating.....maybe we should send him to an IIT in india where he can learn gurmukhi or something... ....now he has me so mad I am apeing romair apeing hamidm!!

`` The first batch of 500 Pakistani students will leave for Cuba this year to start their medical education under these scholarships. Havana announced 1,000 scholarships when its medical teams worked in the earthquake-affected areas in Pakistan-administered Kashmir and North West Frontier Province. They are for graduate studies in general comprehensive medicine (equivalent to MBBS) in leading Cuban medical institutions. ``

All of the doctors/nurses/patients in Cuba are going to be Spanish speaking. I doubt the Pakistani students can get decent medical education without learning Spanish language and Cuban culture. A good part of being a medical doctor has to do with soft skills like communication, knowledge of patient`s diet/culture/lifestyle etc.

Re: # 62 by Naqshbandi on November 16, 2006 3:51pm PT

Dear Naqsh:

Great post {Here are the latest 2006 rankings by the Times:

Note that the IIT is the only Indian university to make it and it ranks at Number 57.
So, Pakistani students would be better off going to the other 56 Universities first... }

And great idea.

Just Say No to India

Respectfully submitted,

#89 Will they be forced to memorize Castro`s world-famous 5 hour speeches in Spanish??

Naqshbandi #56

`` BTW, Cuba has one of the world`s best healthcare systems--as judged by the WHO. As good as anything in Western Europe and far superior to India or Pakistan so it makes sense to send students there to learn medicine. Having said that a couple of Pakistani medical schools are international standard esp. The Agha Khan Medical University and King Edwards. ``

The irony is that malnourished and poor populace in South Asia makes for better medical training. Affuluent folks have their own set of diseases.

Re: Harimau # 77

We might disagree on this Reservation issue, but that was funny ;-)

- Rgds

cubans are affluent?? ever seen pictures of havana??

Re: # 82

Ballukhan what you are suggesting is what I have said too, isn`t it?

Anil

Re: # 88 by tahmed32 on November 16, 2006 8:47pm PT

Dear Tahmed:

{....now he has me so mad I am apeing romair apeing hamidm!! } LOL.

Where is hamidm?

Respectfully Submitted,