India-Pakistan talks: the endless cycle

#331 by behram1 on November 28, 2006 8:06am PT

retardo....Yunus was borrn in 1940 when there was no pakiland..

and yes...globalization and IT are all bad...just as the grapes were sour...

For the meritocrats from some Ghost Hindoo Land University harimau kay gaand main gus jao because you usually perform this ritual for purification.

Or you can learn from another muslim scholar Mohammed Younus (Pakistani born 2006 Nobel Peace Prize winner) and what he said on the Charlie Rose show last night.

He suggested that ``there is good globalization and there is bad globalization.`` And he considers that the prevailing conditions of today`s world economy would be considered as ``bad globalization``.

Ooops hun lagi hain hindooun ki gaand main khujli.

Mohammed Younus was also suggesting that modern era is about financial colonization (similar to the political colonization of the past century).

Ooops hun lagi hain hindooun ki gaand main khujli.

Mohammed Younus said the poverty was all artificially man-made event and people usually do not desire to be poor.

Ooops hun lagi hain hindooun ki gaand main khujli.

How many ``gaand main khujlis`` can Hindoos from Hindoo Land take? These Hindoos must have a large gaand, for all those meritocrats from some Ghost Hindoo Land Universities to enter.

And did I mention that Mohammed Younus is a muslim from Bangla Desh

Okhla,

Pl ask the Neuter not to get frustrated for not getting a gay partner on this weekend. Pl ask him to write something on Indo-Pak talks. That wud be more appropriate.

We all wrote on the topic but not the Neuter Gender.

Respectufully Submitted,


++++++++++


Neuter Gender,

U are on my Ignore List.

Disrespectfully Submitted.

Re:behram

[..So now you want to discuss the whole freaking Hindoo Land /Pakistan`s 59 year old rivalry with someone who has always considered Pakistan as being right and Hindoo Land as being wrong. You may not know this but I am a very biased interlocutor on this topic.......]

Behram, lets cut the BS. I have seen your interactions with other Pakistanis when you vociferously argued against the muslim invasion and later conversion of Iran. In the subcontinent context, the relationship between Pakistan and India is exactly the same parallel as the relation between the muslims and zoroastrians in Iran. If you are such a gung-ho Pakistan supporter, how come you do not support the muslim conquest and conversion of Iran?

Lets look at it from a historical context. India or as you say hindoo land was attacked without provocation for centuries by muslim invaders, who established imperial rule and tried to convert locals. Hindus did not invite Islam into India, nor did they pick a fight against anyone. They were attacked for no reason. That is exactly what happened to Iran as well. The Persians had a superior civilization and were a prosperous nation that was attacked and conquered without any provocation.

The only difference is that in the subcontinent, hindus clung on tenaciously to their faith and the majority did not convert, while in Iran the majority succumbed to the pressure and converted. When the british were leaving, hindus committed themselves to establishing a secular country where all religions could thrive. That is exactly what happened in India. It was the muslims who did not want to live in a secular, democratic country and wanted to split off, giving the excuse of being dominated, when they had dominated India throughout history. Of course, now that partition has occured and most educated muslims left India, it is easy to point to the conditions of muslims left behind and blame that on hindus, when the reality is that muslims abandoned India in the pursuit of a religion based state.

In spite of all the invasions, domination for centuries and the final parting kick of partition, India has still held out an olive branch to muslims and Pakistan by pushing the peace process and trying to get a reconciliation. Instead of holding centuries of historical grudges, hindus have moved on in life and are focused on building a modern nation. The only grudge we hold is the recent acts of jehadi terrorism.

In Iran, alas, the majority conversion to Islam, has ruined that country forever. If Iran had been a Zoroastrian nation today, it would have been like a European nation. The accomplishments and lifestyle of Parsees in the subcontinent indicate that. Instead, it is afflicted with the same mindless religious zealotry that is typical of muslim nations as we see Ahmedinijad and other such jokers ruling roost. If majority hindus had converted to Islam, India would have been a complete disaster of a country, instead of the forward looking, modern nation that it is today.

So you of all people, should be consistent in your philosophy and secretly root for India to succeed. We are doing what I am sure you wish your ancestors had done - stand up to the muslims and hold our own.

#315 by behram1 on November 27, 2006 10:47am PT

``Array where have you been? Come on down so that you can get some more education. Did you ever figure out the distinction between GDP and GNP? or what is too much for your minute intellect? ``

i will keep figuring out the difference between gdp and gnp. but you never figured out the difference between making it thru merit and making it as a bhikari. you should be now known as BB - Be-haram bhikari.

``Yes, because I was born into the richest society of the sub-continent. ``

a gem from BB unsurpassed by anyone on chowk including monto.

``Again in the US, Affirmative Action is purely based on the place of your birth, which in my case is Pakistan. But, being a hate filled Hindoo from the cheater`s class you are unable to understand the existing US law. Even, Hindoos from Hindoo Land are taking the advantage of this law.``

though you claim to have never been discriminated against in pakistan, you still decided to take advantage of your minority status there and chose to be a bhikari in US. even if hindus are taking advantega of AA, they are at least not going around like your big a$$ shouting about doing great engineering work when in reality your are nothing more than a filthy `jamadar`.

``Yeah really! such as who? O! yeah your myopic brains will come back with Tata? Yeah rite. Then, why are those bawajis whoring away on Grant Road, Mumbai, then? ``

dude...your thinking has been clouded so much in your own bull$hit that you have lost all your ability to think. i am sure that names such as adi godrej, nulsi wadia, soli sorabjee, sam maneckshaw (i am sure you pakis have fond memories of him kicking your a$$ hard in 71), meher jessia, perizad zorabian, boman irani etc etc etc mean nothing to you.

and BB, its your g a n d which is no fire because people are not trying to get in, but they are already in and kicking it from all sides so much that we all here can see how much you are screaming in pain.

rgds,

devkant.

Behram sahib,

(Hindoo Land stole away most of muslim majority areas that should have been Pakistans to begin with, or at least had been allowed to be independent, such as Hyderabad. )

If you are referring to Nizam`s Hyderabad, it always had a macaca majority and that`s why it stayed with India. If you are referring to Hyd (Sindh) it has rightfully gone to Pakistan. In fact had MAJ (pbuh) not tried to get Hyd (Deccan) into Pak, Kashmir would have been Paki territory by now.

(Of course, Pakistan will continue its support for a muslim society to have its freedom. )

Pakistan showed its commitment to Muslim freedom in 1970-71 (in Bdesh). Maybe it should now begin with its own backyard, by giving its people the right to elect their own government. And give armed support to Muslims fighting for their independence in Xinjiang, Afghanistan, Palestine and Eye-rack.

(Hindoo Land has killed its minorities)

As a matter of fact the Muslim population has grown from around 10% post 1947 to 15% in 2001. It is in fact Pakistan where the minority population has been decimated. So is Pakistan the Hindoo Land that u are referring to.

(Hindoo Land is acknowledging Palestinian rights and the world is watching it. )

Has the world nothing better to do than watch us Macacas.

(Pakistan is here to stay and Hindoo Land must accept this fact. )

Amen to that.

Regards

the great old-economy power condomistan importing textile machinery from India?

Textile machinery allowed from India: Ministry issues SRO

By Sabihuudin Ghausi


KARACHI, Nov 27: The Pakistan government has allowed the import of most of the textile machinery from India under a recently extended positive list of importable items. A notification to this effect has been issued by the commerce ministry this week, which has been welcomed and termed “long overdue” to quote President of Karachi Chamber of Commerce and Industry Majyd Aziz.

Under this recent order Pakistan has enlarged positive list of importable items from India to 1,841 tariff lines that cover 1,074 products. Before this enlargement, Pakistan’s positive list included 1,525 tariff lines that covered 774 products.

Pakistan is refusing to give India the “Most Favoured Nation” (MFN) status and it trades on the basis of a positive list that is under constant review and has been extended continuously during last more than two decades.

Trade with India was formalised way back in 1986 when the Indian commerce minister visited Pakistan and signed a protocol with late Dr Mahbul Haq, the then Pakistan’s commerce minister.

A significant omission from the positive list of importable items from India is ring frames and textile dyeing and processing machinery.

The decision comes in the wake of falling imports of textile machinery during last few months and leaders of trade and industry now expect that Pakistan’s textile industry is bound to get a boost.

According to the textile industry leaders Pakistan now imports textile machinery from USA, Japan, Germany, Switzerland and other Western countries, which are costlier because of high cost of capital goods, freight and above all the consultants’ fee charged to install this machinery and equipment in Pakistan.

“Most of the Western countries companies--that supply textile machinery to Pakistan--have joint venture projects in India or have given franchise rights and licences to Indian companies,” Mirza Ikhtiar Baig, a former chairman of Site Association of Industry (SAI) told Dawn. He said the Indian-made textile machinery under a licence or franchise from a Western company or of a joint venture will be a lot cheaper.

Installation of the Indian machinery and its periodical maintenance and repair in Pakistan will also be relatively less costly because the fee of Indian consultants is not as high as those from the Western countries and Japan. “Above all the language and culture is by and large the same and, therefore, no problem in communication,” Mr Baig said.

He insists that the textile machinery and equipment should be allowed only from those Indian companies that have licensing arrangement, have franchise rights or are in joint ventures. “Ring frames are available from China that is now the main supplier to the textile producing countries,” he added.

The KCCI president expects a build-up in imports from India that will tilt the trade balance towards India in the short-run but will eventually contribute in improving Pakistan’s global trade balance in the long-run. Many textile companies did import Indian textile machinery through a circular trade of trans-shipment from Dubai, Singapore or Hong Kong, which obviously was a relatively expensive affair.

In addition to textile machinery, Majyd Aziz suggests import of other category of machinery also from India, which, he is convinced, will give a boost to Pakistan’s industry. The Import of textile machinery is showing a declining trend for last several months and after attaining a peak of $928.6 million in 2004-05 came down to $771.46 million in 2005-06. Textile machinery imports came down by more than 33 per cent on year-to-year basis in last four months.

Exports of textile products are also under tremendous pressure and in July to October 2006 are down by about 10 per cent.

Even Pakiland`s textile exports can`t hack it without a quota..

‘Major textile exporters not to attend fair in Germany’

Staff Report

LAHORE: Major textile exporters are not attending in prominent Textile Fair – Heimtextil in Germany January 2007 – and many among participants have reduced their stall sizes in view of continuous decline in textile exports and uncompetitive prices of Pakistani products, said Rana Arif Tauseef, former Chairman Pakistan Textile Exporters Association (PTEA).

In a press statement, he further stated that Indian exporters were taking the stalls vacated by Pakistani exporters and it would be first time that cheaper Indian exports would be contesting the costly Pakistani products side by side. He expressed apprehensions that this would render a severe setback to Pakistani exports and the country would lose its traditional export market. He said that the textile exports in the country were continuously declining over the last 15 months from July 2005.

The declining trend has overflowed in current fiscal year, as the textile exports from July-October, 2006 period are $ 3.2 billions against same period July-October, 2005 exports $ 3.5 billions reflecting a decline of 9.11%.

Behram with his NED degree ought to perhaps read what internationally recognized economics experts are saying.

He and his ilk ought to ask why Pakistan found no mention in this speech.

Here, Behram, is some mirchi up your @rse:

West must prepare for Chinese, Indian dominance: Wolfensohn

by Malcolm Burgess Sun Nov 26, 1:12 AM ET

SYDNEY (AFP) - Western nations must prepare for a future dominated by China and India, whose rapid economic rise will soon fundamentally alter the balance of power, former
World Bank chief James Wolfensohn has warned.

Wealthy countries were failing to understand the impact of the invevitable growth of the two Asian powerhouses, Wolfensohn said in the 2006 Wallace Wurth Memorial Lecture at the University of New South Wales at the weekend.

``It`s a world that is going to be in the hands of these countries which we now call developing,`` said Australian-born Wolfensohn, who held the top job at the global development bank for a decade until last year.

Rich nations needed to try to capitalise on the inevitable emergence of what would become the engine of the world`s economic activity before it was too late, he said.

``Most people in the rich countries don`t really look at what`s happening in these large developing countries,`` said Wolfensohn, who is now chairman of Citigroup International Advisory Board and his own investment and advisory firm.

Within 25 years, the combined gross domestic products of China and India would exceed those of the Group of Seven wealthy nations, he said.

``This is not a trivial advance, this is a monumental advance.``

Wolfensohn said that somewhere between 2030 and 2040, China would become the largest economy in the world, leaving the United States behind.

By 2050, China`s current two trillion US dollar GDP was set to balloon to 48.6 trillion, while that of India, whose economy weighs in at under a trillion dollars, would hit 27 trillion, he said, citing projections by investment bank Goldman Sachs.

In comparison, the US`s 13 trillion dollar income would expand to only 37 trillion -- 10 trillion behind China.

``You will have in the growth of these countries a 22 times growth between now and the year 2050 and the current rich countries will grow maybe 2.5 times.``

In light of these forecasts, it was clear that Western nations and Australia were not investing enough in educating the next generation to be able to take advantage of the coming realignment, he said.

``The fact that not enough of our young people are preparing themselves with knowledge, experience, residence and language to deal certainly with China, although India has the benefit of an English language, it does seem to me that it presents a formidable challenge.``

Wolfensohn pointed to both China`s and India`s recent substantial investments in Africa as an example of how the two emerging giants were exercising their increasing clout on the global stage.

``Within the last two weeks the world has been put on notice that Africa is no longer the basket case that everybody had historically thought it was but is now front and centre in terms of development by India and China.``

The phenomenal rally by the two countries was a return to form rather than a novelty, he said, as they together had accounted for 50 percent of global GDP from the 1500s until the industrial revolution reduced that to between five and seven percent.

Re: # 319 by ranjit on November 27, 2006 2:17pm PT

Dear Ranjit:

So now you want to discuss the whole freaking Hindoo Land /Pakistan`s 59 year old rivalry with someone who has always considered Pakistan as being right and Hindoo Land as being wrong. You may not know this but I am a very biased interlocutor on this topic.

I think that Pakistan has been wronged by successive Hindoo administrators from before partition. Hindoo Land stole away most of muslim majority areas that should have been Pakistans to begin with, or at least had been allowed to be independent, such as Hyderabad.

You write [Behram, you know quite well that Indians are basically mild mannered, submissive people interested in their work, succeeding in their careers and focused on family.]

The ruthlessness and the cunningness of Hindoos are world known and as such it amazes me that you believe in your own propaganda. Hindoos are basically jealous and may not have self-esteem because of what they have done to the rest of the other social minorities amongst them, collaborating with the British against the muslims was paramount in their social ascendancy.

Otherwise, how else can one explain the ruling muslim elite to be in such a dilapidated condition today. Remember, unlike blacks in the US, who were brought as slaves, muslims were the ruling elite of that society, and the only fact is that Hindoos as a society did destroy the vibrancy and enlightenment of the larger muslim community.

Pakistan, was the right answer to the disgusting situation that prevailed in Hindoo Land for the muslims.

[They are not into combative politics or harming others.]

Again, not true. Hindoos are very smart in office politicking and sucking up to the Anglos. Why else you see a Hindoo drooling all over explaining how great his background was, etc.? Why is there no Hindoo in the US who had come from a humble background? I have met several Parsee from Hindoo Land, who would claim that they had a humble beginning in the Hindoo Land, but never a Hindoo. Yet, it is always the Hindoo who would claim that Parsees are very well off.

Is this some sort of a disease that you got from the cheater`s class of the Hindoo Land?

[So you can imagine the provocation that has forced many of them to be so virulent towards Pakistan.]

Hindoo land, has continued its stupid foreign policy against the western interests. Hindoo land was pro-USSR, was part of the non-aligned movement, and was totally against all the enlightened society of the cold war era. Due to the marketing ploy of US corporations, only recently Hindoo Land is understanding its useless foreign policy.

Hindoo Land would strive its best, but could not become part of the muslim organizations. The reason is its universal behaviour towards muslims and Hindoo Land must acknowledge and take full responsibility of how it behaves towards its minorities. Hindoo Land has killed its minorities and the world is watching it. Hindoo Land has established its relationship with Israel and get help from Mossad, and the muslims are watching it. Hindoo Land is acknowledging Palestinian rights and the world is watching it.

Here you would get confused. Where is the loyalty of Hindoo Land? Is it muslims of Palestine? or is it Israel? or both?

[The roots of this virulence lies in the jihadi politics followed by Pakistan during the entire nineties, when Kashmir and other parts of India became a battleground.]

Not true. This is indigenous freedom movement. Of course, Pakistan will continue its support for a muslim society to have its freedom. Hindoo Land must resolve the current situation to the satisfaction of muslims.


[...other Indian cities with active encouragement from Pak establishment as a policy of bleeding India by a 1000 cuts......, there was an airline hijacking to Kandahar by Jaish-e-Mohammad, attack on Indian parliament, bomb blasts, etc. ]

And if Hindoo Land is truly a democratic country then you should get a solution real fast. As a comparison, look at the US with it`s death toll of less than 3,000 in Iraq, is thinking very fast to resolve the situation in Iraq.

Of course, Hindoo Land is not a true democracy, and hence Hindoo people would continue to suffer, and that is the unfortunate situation of your ruler`s belligerency.

[After 9/11 and Bush`s war on terror, Pakistan changed its tune and has slowly reduced its jehadi obsession.]

Actually, that is also factually not true. Pakistan never had any tune regarding the fight with Hindoo Land. It was the Hindoo Land who has constantly sent trouble makers inside Pakistan. Heck, much before 9/11 ever happened, Hindoo Temples in the US were collecting funds for Hindutva`s terror operations.

Pakistan is here to stay and Hindoo Land must accept this fact. Your 1940`s Hindoo politicians, who continuously promoted hate towards muslims of undivided India are long gone and will never return.

[Its not gone out completely but has significantly decreased. However, ..............we all feel extremely mad at Pakistan, perhaps as a reflex action that is residual from those times.]

Who has the prime responsibility to behave appropriately in the neighborhood? The bigger sized India? or the smaller sized Pakistan? Heck, even smaller Bangla Desh does not want Hindoo Land to mess around with their internal affairs. And did you know how much hate Sri Lankans have towards Hindoo Land? Did you not know where Musharraf was coming back from when he kicked the previous Pakistani rulers to oblivion?

It is only Pakistan, which has been the advocate of peace and stability in the neighborhood.

And, BTW did you not know that I know every minor detail of Pakistani society, after all it is my birth place. Would you ever know what that means to defend a ``maadera-watan``?

[Having said all that, I will still submit to you that Pakistanis are treated the best in India as compared to any other country in the world. ] And the same treatment Hindoo gets from visiting Pakistan.

But this still does not solve the core issue between muslims of Kashmir and Hindoo Land.

[Even the ``brotherly`` muslim countries treat Pakistan like crap, while in India they are wined and dined. Just ask anyone who has visited India.]

That is true, but that treatment also goes for muslims or Hindoos from India. That kind of treatment by the Arabs, has a totally different genesis, that would probably take another round of 15,000 or so hits on a site.

Maybe some articulate writer can write an article on why are people from Hindoo Land hated so much in the Arab and Iranian world.

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 320

Respected VRV,

Time you showed some restraint and maturity man !!!!



***** To Behram, VRV, Krishna, Arjun, Harimau et al *******

I repeat, if intelligent, educated Pakistanis and Indians cannot engage in civilised debate then it is futile to expect the same from our Politicians, Militaries or Mullahs/RSS.

*****

Re: # 320

Respected VRV,

Time you showed some restraint and maturity man !!!!



***** To Behram, VRV, Krishna, Arjun, Harimau et al *******

I repeat, if intelligent, educated Pakistanis and Indians cannot engage in civilised debate then it is futile to expect the same from our Politicians, Militaries or Mullahs/RSS.

*****

The mentally deranged, socially II class & economically, evocationally disadvantaged, Neuter Gender beHaraami is in my ignore list.

Midwives like Okhla and Zeemax shud restrain this Haraami.

Re:behram1#317

[..But, look at the Hindoos from Hindoo Land on this chowk, they always put down Pakistan. Why?....]

Behram, you know quite well that Indians are basically mild mannered, submissive people interested in their work, succeeding in their careers and focused on family. They are not into combative politics or harming others. So you can imagine the provocation that has forced many of them to be so virulent towards Pakistan.

The roots of this virulence lies in the jihadi politics followed by Pakistan during the entire nineties, when Kashmir and other parts of India became a battleground. Large numbers of militants (kashmiris, punjabis, afghans, chechens, arabs) belonging to Hizbul Mujaheedin, Lashkar-e-Toiba and Jaish-e-Mohammad infiltrated into Kashmir and other Indian cities with active encouragement from Pak establishment as a policy of bleeding India by a 1000 cuts. Even now you have the United Jehad Council that operates from Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. Every day 10-20 people would get killed, bombs would go off, hindus were all driven out of Kashmir valley and became refugees in their own country and so on. And not just Kashmir, there was an airline hijacking to Kandahar by Jaish-e-Mohammad, attack on Indian parliament, bomb blasts, etc.

After 9/11 and Bush`s war on terror, Pakistan changed its tune and has slowly reduced its jehadi obsession. Its not gone out completely but has significantly decreased. However, the policies of that time had a huge impact on Indians, especially young Indians who were experiencing it day in and day out. That is why they have such virulence since that is the only way for them to get back at Pakistan. Even now when there is a bomb blast, we all feel extremely mad at Pakistan, perhaps as a reflex action that is residual from those times.

Having said all that, I will still submit to you that Pakistanis are treated the best in India as compared to any other country in the world. Even the ``brotherly`` muslim countries treat Pakistan like crap, while in India they are wined and dined. Just ask anyone who has visited India.

#317 by behram1 on November 27, 2006 12:35pm PT


Pakistani engineers in the west are kicking @ss?


If the definition of kicking @ss means being cab drivers, 7/11 cashiers or smalltime contractors doing smalltime jobs on set asides/quotas, yes....they`re kicking @ss..

Re: # 316 by ranjit on November 27, 2006 11:03am PT

Dear ranjit:

Boy you are so civilized in this post. What happened?

[What you dont understand .....on education and building an industrial base.]

Agreed, and what you don`t understand is Pakistanis in the west are doing great things, inspite of the paindoos in Islamabad, and that is what gets debated on this chowk.

[The hollowness in your system is self-evident since individual Pakistanis are very talented but they do not get the opportunity to prosper within Pakistan. ]

So you do agree that Pakistani engineers in the west are kicking @ss?

When did I ever support the shenanigans of Pakistani politicians of the last 30 years or so? After the downfall of ZAB, we are all complaining that Pakistan has lost it`s focus.

Does that mean, that I as a Pakistani, would lose my focus on remaining the best ambassador of my country, inspite of what happens politically in Pakistan?

But, look at the Hindoos from Hindoo Land on this chowk, they always put down Pakistan. Why?

Respectfully submitted,