India-Pakistan talks: the endless cycle

#47 what will people on chowk have to talk about then?? rocket science?? advancements in medicine?? world poverty?? poor arjun will go beyond insanity!! 90% posters will drift away from chowk if you take away this india-pakistan business!!

Re: # 47
Touche!!!
Now THAT would be a good idea... maybe when we`ve progressed in more important matters, we can settle this increasingly-frustrating dispute...

#34

Ama yaar, you are SO wrong on the historical part of it – but your mind is only a victim of and only reflects what three generations of “ummah is the best thing since apple pie” indoctrination has done to the youth of your country.

And truth be said – the historical part became rather irrelevant the moment your fore-fathers – those paragons of “virtue” and “tolerance” – decided to walk away.

Answer this simple question, though. If the only idea was to create a numerical majority of Muslims by grouping together provinces which already had such majority – what was the idea behind killing off and packing off the Hindus and other minorities – conducting the subsontinents’s very own ethnic cleansing till there are virtually no non-Muslims left in your country?!

Why the holocaust? Why the “purification”?!!

Ooops, I forgot. You are the land of the PURE!

What’s the matter – lost your tongue?

No my dear, you do not wish to face the truth because the truth is no different from the truth in pre-apartheid South Africa – where a numerical minority considered itself “superior” to the numerical majority and was refusing to live as “one white man equals one black man” for voting!

No, it’s not the Hindus who were or are the culprits. It’s not the Hindus who have refused to consider themselves as natives to the subcontinent and as owing allegiance to the land that gave them birth and sustenance!! The Hindus do not have what appears to be an identity crisis!

And it is the Hindus who have lived as and practiced that “one Hindu equals one Muslim” for the last sixty years – a simple feat that the land of the PURE appears to have some SERIOUS difficulty getting used to.

Yes my dear, YOU guys and gals are the real racists of the subcontinent.

It’s the mindset….my darling!

The mindset of you and yours!

No meaningful talks can take place place between India and Pakistan unless Pakistan is a full fledged democracy( as enshrined in its constitution) or its constituion is not changed that Pakistan is no more a democratic nation.

Military Dictatorships in Pakistan, have always been taken as stop gap arrangements, though they are the only permanent feature.

With Military Dictators, we should talk about short term issues, cultural exchanges etc. etc. but the long term issues like Kashmir, Saichen, MFN statuses etc. should be discussed only with the democratically elected governments of Pakistan.

The instrument of ``Talks`` is not meaningfully utilised by India and Pakistan. In theory when two conflicting groups talk it results in synthesis (thesis and anti-thesis becomes synthesis). In the case of us this synthesis is getting impossible to obtain.

With regard to India`s conflicts with others like Bangladesh and China, India cud manage some synthesis. If no middle ground was achieved at least there was cessation of hostilities. For eg. India and China had near normal relations despite having serious diffs on border issues and India hosting Tibetan govt in exile. Water issues with Bangladesh doesnt threaten peace between India and Bangladesh.

China and Taiwan have serious issues of existence but they manage their commercial issues as if they are normal countries.

There was a glimmer of hope when Indian PM offered some part of Valley but Pakistan wanted all of Kashmir..sorry K`shmeer. Pakistan, despite its size and limitations in finances wants to compete with India as a military power. To compound the issue, Pak even makes blood money from the US and the West, whilst winking to China abt India i.e willing to play China`s bidding on India. THIS ALL GOES CONTRARY TO WHAT JINNAH SAID: `We together wud say hands-off to others when faced with extrenal aggressions on ``us`` (sic)`.

Stakes were hiked by Indian Muslims of pre-47 India (i.e. Pakistanis) within India for peace. We`re told that peace wud come if we give Pakistan. Later, Pakistan increased it to getting K`shmeer. Even if we imagine that K`shmeer is given on platter, Pak wud hike the stakes we cud only imagine.

This charade reminds me of my north Indian friend`s anecdote abt pre-47 slogan in north India i.e. `Huss ke liya Pakistan. Ladke lenge Hindustan`. The slogan rings true abt the mindset of Pak establishment.

Re: # 53


Pl read 53 as:


The instrument of ``Talks`` is not meaningfully utilised by India and Pakistan. In theory when two conflicting groups talk it results in synthesis (thesis and anti-thesis becomes synthesis). In our case obtaining synthesis (i.e getting to the middle-ground) seems nearly impossible.

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Re: # 53


Pl read 53 as:


The instrument of ``Talks`` is not meaningfully utilised by India and Pakistan. In theory when two conflicting groups talk it results in synthesis (thesis and anti-thesis becomes synthesis). In our case obtaining synthesis (i.e getting to the middle-ground) seems nearly impossible.

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Zeemax sahib,

(However unsavoury Musharraf regime may be, it is not a dictatorship rather it is a manipulated political oligarchy at best.)

Whatever neologism you can invent, the fact is Pakistan is not a democracy. India, with all its imperfections, can be described as nothing but a democracy.

Tans ji,

(In pakistan, at least, there is no official non-Muslims organization)

So in your opinion it is a good thing that minorities i.e non Muslims are NOT ALLOWED to have an organisation of their own. But India has quite a few Muslim organisation and I dont think there is anything bad in that.

(Pakistan has been created, and there`s not much India can do about it. )

Here I agree wholeheartedly with you. There is no point in tussling with acronyms like TNT, DAD, MAJ (pbuh), MKG, YLH, HYD etc. The point whether Hindus and Muslims are a separate nation is not worth debating, the fact is we have three (big) nations in the sub-continent- India, Pak, Bdesh and we have to live with each other.

Regards


Regards

Re: # 56

But why would Pakistani Muslims now trust Indian Hindus when they put a fence
because they did not trust Indian Hindus? What has changed in 60 years on Indian side
that such a trust can develop on Pakistani side? So all this mutual trust etc. is not going to
work when the existence of one has been on the basis of lack of trust.

What the hell is their to talk about? Lets just kill each other

#36 by zeemax on November 22, 2006 1:46am PT


it will be perceived as a resounding victory by Jihadists and infilterations into Kashmir will start anew.


oooh...is this the point where India is supposed to quake in it`s boots and hand over Indian Kashmir to the land of the pure because if it didn`t do so, the big bad jihadi wolf would huff and puff and blow the house down?

if anything, the jihadis are already killing pro paki government people in the tribal areas, collecting taxes and enforcing their own laws...

The jihadi insurgency has been going on for 17 years in Indian Kashmir and today Pakiland is no closer to it`s Kashmir banega Pakiland wet dream than it`s ever been....and what has happened in the meantime...pakiland has stopped talking about the UN resolution...this process will continue until the pakis accept that the LoC IS the border and there isn`t a thing they can do to change that....

Re: # 59
If you don`t give us Kashmir I swear I won`t invite you to my party. Hah in your face Macaca

#59

LoC can be the border only if Kashmiris accept that. Otherwise they will indeed huff and puff and blow your jhuggi down. Pak help or not.

Re: # 49

You`d be surprised, chachu.

Talk about the next Fuzon tour of India. Talk about the next Friendship series to be hosted in Pakistan (in which incidentally we`re gonna whip your asses cuz Shoaib and Aasif are in junkie purgatory). Talk about Harrappa and mohenjodaro. Talk about student exchange programs. Talk about evolving a South Asian identity that goes beyond which side of the border your folks were on in 1947.

Hell, talk about the weather, talk about your dog, your last marathon race, what post-grad programme your kids plan to enrol in. What does it matter?

#62 by burpinder on November 22, 2006 6:29am PT

south asian identity my ass

Indians should disassociate themselves from everything paki...just like the brit-sikhs don`t want to be associated with the brit-pakis..

too much of this south asian bull crap and guess what: the news will say 20 south asians bring down planes over new york and washington dc....

Very truly said, the topic “India-Pakistan talks: the endless cycle” itself says every thing.
really liked the idea