Mohammad Yousuf: A tribute

I think juhi is very cute :)

Zeemax, I knew him well and last talked to him a few days before he died. I am not putting a shadow on his murder but just saying that what has followed is tragic.

His daughter is now married to a Green Turbannned and his brother Noel tells me that is Ex wife is rumoured to forgive the assasins.

Selling and buying properties is what the non business class does to make quick money. Though I would agree with the notion of dubious dealings, no one was ready to trace him once he went missing. PLEASE READ ONE OF MY ILOGS.

It was much later that his body was found in a drain.

#76 by ijaz_gul,

Ijaz, I met Deryk Cyprian about two weeks before the incident. Please don`t put a shadow over his murder because it had nothing to do with power politics. He was involved in dealings with dubious business men to get their jobs done with the Govt etc .. and he perhaps couldn`t deliver after having taken money from them .... it was a mob style execution.

#71 by ana

Ana, because the Christian community in Pak was a very vibrant community before Zia days, but now most have moved abroad and Pak is deprived of their talents. Yousuf should have shown it is worthwile, still, in Pak for any community to progress.

Take the example of Cecil Choudhury. He can`t even think of immigrating and stays put with his unrelenting service to his community and his country, despite his personal cost.

Re: # 76

Yes, Yes dog ate my homework as well.

Its not a Christian leaving the community. One could be a Christian and yet lack the Christian Spirit. `Man does not live by bread alone` Its the deeds that count, and if he now behaves as a better human being, so much the better for him. But coming to the point.

As members of the community in Pakistan, we left no stone unturned to glorify him and give him an ICON status within the community for the youngsters to follow. He was decorated, made Chief Guest and showered with lots of poor donated money. In return he just could not reciprocate even with a gesture.

What has rather happened is that his inclusion in the team was considered enough of minority representation. Now, his action blocks more Christians moving into the reckoning eg there is a very fast bowler from a Christian Village near Burewala, who just cannot make it beyond the Academy lest he converts. The boy is under lots of pressure. There are a few batsmen and all rounders who are totally frustrated. And it is not just with Christians but also with other players who dont subscribe to the Raiwand School.

In contrast, there are many people who have chosen to sacarifice vertical mobilisation and careers to stick to their beliefs. Cecil is one who despite performing heroically in 1965 and 1971 never got promoted. There are bureaucrats, military officers, bankers etc who were not allowed to run the full distance. Very recently Deryk Cyprian, once considered to be a finance minister was gagged and drowned to death and the what has followed is tragic.

So much for now

#73

And what you need to do is get over your arrogant attitude and your own presumptions, sir. Where did I say that I was pissed off that Yousaf converted to Islam? I would like for you to point that out to me. My not giving a damn what religion anyone converts to does not translate into being pissed off.

Yeah, lots of Christians might be leaving the faith, but Muslims are killing lots of Muslims as well. Explain that one to me. On second thought, don`t bother. . .

Happy Holidays.

This man, Yousaf Yuhanna, a Baalmiki-turned-Masih - turned - Musalli, suffering from extreme inferiority complex, used religion and cricket, everything he could lay hand on as a spring-board , to allay his inferiority complex and in turn degraded evrything he touched. Of all the Paky team he presented the most ugly and unsportsmanlike spectacle on the crease presenting a nauseating `bad-duaa or `bad-rooh` for the bowler. He degraded Islam by using it as a camouflage against the bowlers in an un-Islamic Satanic game. He is the fittest target of the Quranic curse `Faweilul lilmusalleen-(107/4)` (Barbaadi he musallion ke lie), but the cricket being a satanic game is ruled by Satanic forces and values.

Re: # 71

Yo all need to get over and stop whining already. Offcourse the writer thinks that his religion is better than ur`s if he didnt he would have been christian already just as you think that christianity is better than islam thats why u r still a christian. We all think (well the one`s that give a shit anyway) that our respective religions are ``truer`` than everyone else`s, thats why we are follwoing them.

You are just pissed of cause you lost one more player from ur team just as you loose about 20,000 every year in usa alone. I am not gloating but the fact of the matter is that we the muslims have a better product to sell thats why theres a queue. Your primary cleintale comprises loosers who are willing to sell their soles for US immigration or poor people that dont have food in africa and you give them food if they accept Jesus (PBUH) as their saviour. Your frustration with the author is ill-directed, you need to be pissed of at the reality on ground.

DoubleC:

Congratulations, mubarakaaN to you and your wife and the family. I just haven`t been to Chowk very much because quite honestly I`m sick of where the discussions go here, and the actions of some of the interactors, but I`m still transitioning between cities in Amreeka. Will send you an email soon. Do you still have the same address?
Once again, the very best, what a lovely gift for the season. LaRka ya laRki?
love, ana

The more I read this article, the more problems I see in it, and I for one cannot possibly think of giving it any more attention than I already have, frenzied or not but I will make one last comment here:

No, the writer cannot imagine what it is like to live in a tight-knit poor Christian family, as part of a minority community, when he is from the majority. What the writer puts down as threats from Yousaf`s Christian family are also threats that families and people from the writer`s own faith community give their own when they convert to another faith. The writer moves from making his family sound like tyrants, to the freedom once he is finally free of them and the Christian faith. He talks about the emptiness that Yousaf must have felt being a Christian and how Islam has liberated him and this liberation is what has improved his cricket skills even more. The writer then preaches to other Muslims about how they need to improve their lives on the basis of this wonderful improvement. There is no presumption here. This is all within the article.

I don`t know quite how my fellow Christian readers or other religionists find this, but while the writer is driven by his own faith to write something like this, there is this subtle implication of Islam`s triumph over Christianity (or any other faith), that I for one don`t appreciate, as I find triumphalism in religion abhorrent. Intentional or not, it is there. A conversion to, or a rejection of a faith altogether is a personal choice, that person`s choice, in this case Yousaf`s, and I am glad that he is happy. Malcolm X converted to Islam for very different reasons, as did Yusaf Islam, and you cannot lump all these together and imply that there is an emptiness in their faith. It is their personal choices that drive them towards faith. I have read about and looked into other faiths, and as I have said once before, I have considered conversion to Islam, but when I began to participate more, to pay more attention to what I was baptized as, I didn`t find it lacking anything that other belief systems contain. Personal choices.

And Zeemax, why should Yousaf have done something for the uplift of his community simply because he was a celebrity or ``token`` Christian? Do all Muslim cricket players do something for the uplift of theirs? Or all Muslim celebrities period? I am more likely to believe that Yousaf was a Christian in name rather than in action (although that is tantamount to a judgment on him), because a devout Christian would not have given it all up, coercion or no, just so that he could be ``liberated`` and have more recognition. And that is what some or at least one of the Christian commenters has suggested here. Wishing he had not converted from Christianity, is really no better than someone wishing he would not convert to Islam, or from it.

Re: # 68

With all due respect, if his belief and understanding is that he will burn in eternal hell-fire if he doesn`t convert than what makes you think he or anyone will give a rats ass about what you or even his parents or community would rather have him do. Just as you & I do things in our lives according to our wishes, aspirations and understanding in the same manner yOusuf or anyone else has that same right. Could we be anymore vain that we think that Yousuf should accomodate us and insteaf of converting to Islam, elevate his community because WE think thats a more apt course for him. Last time I checked Yousuf wasnt our slave.

RE: Harishoaa_hyderabadi

I once read in an Indian paper/TV channel during (not sure about where I read it and the exact year so please don`t ask me to produce it here) in which harish hyderabadi said that he was gay and he was also sorry that he has to drink cow piss every freakin day because if he doesnt gaoo mata will be ferociously pissed off. Harishoa also said that he thinks its bull crap and he doesnt really believe that harmless cow is able to do anything but he still does it because it takes a man to actually stand up for his real belief and harishoa knows that he is no real man.(not sure about where I read it and the exact year so please don`t ask me to produce it here). I also read that Harishoa is nothing but a bigot and he hates everything that is pakistan and pakistanis for the mere fact that they are better looking than him. (not sure about where I read it and the exact year so please don`t ask me to produce it here).

I hope harishoa that you get what i am saying although i wouldnt be surprised at all if u didnt.

#68 by zeemax

He doesn`t HAVE to do it as most Muslim players don`t, and suffice with wave of the bat. He appears to do it out of genuine faith. Why? I for one have no answer.

I once read his interview to an Indian paper/TV channel during Pakistan`s tour to India in 2003/4 (not sure about where I read it and the exact year so please don`t ask me to produce it here) in which he said he was being sidelined by the media in Pakistan because he was a Christian. He also said the other Paki players were earning more through endorsements than he was because they were Muslim.

It is actually quite confusing. I for one do not believe that Islam improved Yousaf Youhanna`s performance. Some people have pointed out that it may have been because of peer pressure which once relieved, gave a boost to his cricket ... but the way he prostrates on the ground doesn`t appear to be because of pressure. He doesn`t HAVE to do it as most Muslim players don`t, and suffice with wave of the bat. He appears to do it out of genuine faith. Why? I for one have no answer. Perhaps he really found something there.

Personally, though, I feel Yoususf, instead of converting, should have done something for the uplift of his own community when in a celebrity position; a community which was an extremely valuable and talented part of the pakistani social fabric but now fading; and which has produced numerous eminent patriots such as Cornelius, Cecil Choudhry, and not the least, the huge musical talent of the Benjamin Sisters .... who took this country by storm.

I would rather Yousuf had remained Christian and done something for his community. That would be the same as accepting Islam.

#58 Ijaz,

So true. I`ll be the first to accept this from my section. However the family in Pindi is doing good as mostof them went throught St. Mary`s.

E-mail me as i would like to know about your big revival project.

Ana,

same to you and your family as well. Where have you been?

I received my Christmas present early (became a father :)

#62 by teshah,

I think you and i are seeing eye to eye, however i did not agree with your earlier post. Anyway it Advent and let`s forgive and forget and enjoy the season.

Happy holidays.

Dear Writer,
Mohammed Yusuf (MOYO) has truly rediscovered his lost mojo. A phenomenal performance from a truly great player.

Yusuf Yuhana (now MOYO) is the same player who started off so wonderfully then fell into a state of inconsistent and lacklustre performances. Reason is clear and you have alluded to it in your article, a poor christian boy was hounded by the Mullah centric cricketing buddies to convert. I cannot even imagine the mental agony Yusuf must have experienced which effected his cricketing performance. Thus dear writer, it is my opinion that Pakistan was robbed of three to four years of greatness by Islamo fascists in their blind endeavour to make everything Islamic. Yusuf Yuhana or Mohammed Yusuf, he was always a great cricketing talent irrespective of his religious beliefs.

A very good article, ( if i have to say it in terms of its overall literary usage, i`ll add ``in huge patches``)...though the comment of ana seems driven by a touch of frenzy where he/she made some presumptions, which is not my job to point out anyway....but yeah, i found it weak when you said that `` ...if u believe in an after life`s existence..then religion must play a vital-role...`` it was one-dimensional for the sheer fact where it might suggest that probably a gut-feeling for an `after-life`s existence` is what drives u towards a religion...whereas religion has, and obviously must have, a far more wholistic concept to it..it gives answers, it advises, it resolves, it inspires and it guides a person through all of his questions and doubts and the course of action he takes and finally, the result and feedback for his actions.....starting from the birth of an atom to the future of the universe, from the birth of intuition to the guidance for logic and understanding, from the explanation of the feelings in a person`s insides to the myriad complexities that result out of it all the way through, for relationships and human interactions, for what prayer is and means all about, for the need and the outcome of the magical word, character!......and yeah, to give the `reason` why the universe, and in it, `me` exists?.....
..and i know i have gravely missed out and overlooked a lot more...

..the most beautiful line of your essay, which instantly appealed to me was the..``In our quest to become “Intellectual” some of us make Islam so confusing and complicated that only a brain-surgeon can figure out how to get salvation``...this sentence has potential in the way it can be extended beyond Islam and related with the whole of humanity...a lot of times if we deeply look into the `intellectual` stuff and strip it to the bottom layer...we realise it is a shallow base layered under equivocating abstractions, to be crisply precise n `real`...and this is where the message of the religion that you have pointed out gets beautiful, for the simple reason that its the other way round!...its the profundity of an ocean(though i am being restrictively finite) ..which keeps on defining a more clearer facet to it each time u live through it...hidden behind simple words...

Re: # 61

You are a good man sir. I think it was individuals like urself that motivated Maulana azad to stand firm on his belief. But i am afaraid u r in minority, nevertheless it was my pleasure.

Mr. Muzammil,

I think you should have just written about your thoughts about Islam and the afterlife, and left bechara Mohammad Yousaf out of this. While a lot of people credit God or Allah or Mataji with their success there are also other things in this world. This is a rather poor excuse of an article, and I will attempt to explain why. You suggest that Yousaf becoming a Muslim has changed his life for the better, which is true perhaps to some extent, but he was doing just fine as a Christian as well. You can believe in anything, and that belief will be part of what guides you to success.

Your article breaks down and turns into a sermon rather than an article about a fine kirkat player. I really don`t understand why Chowk put this in Gymkhana. It belongs in some other khana, and I shall politely refrain from mentioning the possibilities. All the things that you have exhorted your brothers and sisters to do are just as well done by those who are not Muslim. I mean no disrespect towards your faith, but you have in just a few strokes disrespected the faith to which Mohammad Yousaf previously belonged, and to which some of the readers here belong to, including myself. What you are suggesting that no one who strongly believes in any faith other than Islam can rise to the success that Yousaf has, in Pakistan. I don`t know if you really understand how all over the place patronizing this is. Heaven forbid that this feeling be shared in Pakistan, by believing liberals as well, to remind us Christians of what our place is. We know that Yousaf used to make the sign of the cross when he was a Christian, and he performed wonderfully on the days he did that as well. His conversion, and it is a conversion, mind you, to Islam has been good in so far as it has already been suggested, he now knows the heights he can achieve materialistically as well as spiritually.

P.S. And yes, it is far more polite to refer to Yousaf as Mohammad Yousaf. If he no longer believed in the faith he was raised in, and decided to change that as well as his name, then the ullu ka paTTha should no longer be called Youhanna.
P.P.S. Greetings to you CC and Ijaz, and a very merry Christmas to you and your families. Peace!
P.P.P.S. KyooN Chowk editors par ghussa kartay haiN? Don`t you know they are believers in free speech, and the right to express an opinion no matter how disagreeable one might find it. Of course they haven`t always practised it, but bah`r haal. . . let them publish these things. . . you`ll still be here to kachhrofy it, and Chowk goes on to brag again after another year of great success!

Re: # 56

doublec

You say:

``and why should i below steam on other non muslim countries when Pakistan was the country i was born in, the country that i cared for in the same way a muslim did. Why was i made feel different then?``

The question is who is a Muslim in Pakistan? Read Munir Inquiry Report of 1953. The so called `Ullema` of Islam could not reach a common definition of Muslim as that Report would show. Then come to Bhutto times when the very constitution of Pakistan was converted into a `takfiri` Fatwa. As a result even the Muslims who had strived for Pakistan, the land as a refuge for Muslims, lost the very right to call them Muslims unless and until they submitted an affidavit to that effect. How insulting I felt when as a syed I had to submit an affidavit for being a Muslim for even a minor amendment to my passport. I now feel all the more insulted when a Choora Masih is being extolled as a hero muslim without indicating whether he had submitted the required affidavit calling Ahmadies as `Non-Muslim` and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the founder of the sect, an impostor. It is not clear also whether he was circumcised.

Veritably, Pakistan, the land of the Muslims, has been turned into a theatre in absurdity by the `Jahil` Mulla as a vengence of their defeat in preventing its establishment.

Abu_safwaan

Tha`t OK, my friend. We got trapped in such a distraction.

This is about something that all Pakistanis should be celebrating, and of which we Indians should be jealous yet offering our grudging admiration. So let`s assume that is precisely the outcome the author sought, although some of his words could be interpreted differently. :)

Three cheers for Mohammad Yousuf, and three cheers for Pakistan!

Re: # 59

Sir,

I think his last couple of sentences might be worth reading again. ``no matter what I am about to write, some how Islam and after life becomes unavoidable maybe because in my head that’s an inescapable reality and sooner we recognize it better it will be for our perpetual harmony. ``

He makes it evident that his belief system is what drives him. We have every right to agree or disagree with him but his sincerity shouldnt be questioned, we should give him the benefit of the doubt.

Abu_Safwan

What you wrote makes eminent sense. For whatever reasons, the man is doing better now as a cricketer. That`s his and Pakistan`s good fortune. If the magic touch was in his renouncing Christianity to become a Muslim, that`s great, just as others may do better by renouncing Islam to become Christians or whatever else suits their particular temperament better.

The point of difference (and hopefully, Ahmer Muzammil will clarify his position) was that the author, may be unwittingly, turned the tribute to the cricketer into a tribute to Islam, at the expense of Christianity`s good name.

Again, Ahmer Muzammil himself may have wanted to do nothing of that sort. In which case, ALL Pakistanis - Muslims, Christians, Hindus, and Atheists - can go back to doing what they should have been doing, celebrating the cricketer`s achievements, irrespective of the person`s current name or religion.

PCs are leading the way. Those of your genre migrated long ago and those that remain have no ambitions. I am running a big revival project and it appears the most onerous task I ever faced. Those who studied with me in school did not excel either. Dance parties and fashion were name of the game.

Ijaz,

``To Doublec`s question as to who has excelled after Cornelius et al, well there are many. There are bankers, businessmen, red tapes in the armed forces, bureaucrats, engineers and doctors.``

True but mostly Punjabi are leading the way. The others have migrated.

There was a time when we made fun of the PC`s but now think they are the future. ( i hope you get the hint)

Teshah,

My questions from post 48 still remain unanswered:

and why should i below steam on other non muslim countries when Pakistan was the country i was born in, the country that i cared for in the same way a muslim did. Why was i made feel different then?

Sirji i was brought up in a liberal city like Karachi where religion was not such a big issue than the villages and i was still treated like a foreigner. I feel sorry for those mashi`s that were born in a village. My question to you is, why did you and the muslims of Pakistan not follow Quaid`s words? Why are we not given the same rights that are given to 98% of the population of Pakistan? Why do we have a separate voting system where i am forced to vote for someone who i have never met or may be living 100`s of miles away from me? What have you done to stop this injustice on your fellow country men?

#50 by abu_safwaan on December 8, 2006 6:00am PT
Re: # 49

`Yes, Yes we should get a lecture on learning english from someone named devkant. The end must be near. Stop shaking your head first and wipe that dot off before you join your mates for high-tea @ the country club. Chinese and indians speaking english? This must be the best joke of the century. The reason you all are not able to relate with the insistance of muslims on being proud of their religion is because it`s rather hard to be proud of worshiping cows, monkeys, snakes elephants and who knows what else. Do us all a favor and preach your hindu-bretheren to start taking baths and get in the habbit of using deodrants before you march on to bring Muslim youth within the mainstream of the west. `

sir, the fact that you can speak english does not mean that every one of your country men can speak the language. i never said anywhere that you should not be proud of your religion. but being obsessed with it is what gives rise to tensions. if being proud of your religion means that a lady teacher will not remove her burqa while teaching little kids, then nothing more can be said about you and your religion. Hindus may worship anything they want, but at least they do not enforce their religion or their religious identity on others (except in some parts of india where rss, vhp and shiv sena fundus are hell bent on converting everyone to hindusm). just because you want to bury your head in the sand does not mean that wrong becomes right. the fact that pakistani muslims in european countries are largely uneducated, jobless and wanna be jehadis cannot be hidden by the hindus that worship cows.

Teshah
if i understand your post correctly, then what you mean is that doublec must also blow his steam on those countries that do not treat paki muslims in the same manner with which minorities are treated in pakistan.

if the above is what you mean, then I think you may be partly correct. but blowing staem at those countries is not going to make any difference. its all about tolerance and adjustment. most eurpoean countries are willing to make it (but i suspect their patience is being severely tested), but pakistanis are not and will never be till they idolise the arabs.

rgds,

devkant.

Re: # 49
devkant

I am sorry to say you misunderstood the import of my sentence below which I had let deliberately open-ended:

````A question, however, arises, ``Why don`t you blow your steam on those countries also which do not treat the Paky Muslim minority as they treat all minorities in their own country, especially the weaker ones, on religious grounds.``

The pronoun `they` I had meant both ways. It also meant the country of the Paky Muslims. I had meant why the Christian and secular countries treat the Paky Muslims in the same way as minorities in their country whom they do not consider to be Muslim are treated even constitutionally by the state, despite, as you say, their bigoted segregation.

#52- abu

Actually it pained me to see a low-cast man making cricket his profession and cult by downgrading the religion to just a sport.

#53 by Ijaz

You are right. During his captaincy for a short while I had heard a man, watcing cricket match in Austrailia on TV, saying, ``Inhon ne kia jeetna he jab ek choorhe ko inhon ne Captan bana dia he``.

Yousaf was a BALMIK whose family embraced Chritianity at partition. He was bred in a society which was inbreeding and unlike me or Doublec, had little chance of mixing with his muslim peers. It was within this cacooned complex that he came to rise as a Cricket Star. He was supported relentlessly by his own community but always felt an alien in the highly Tablighi Cricket Team. As the pressures arose, he found it difficult to concentrate on his profession. Finally he took the plunge and now has the pressure off him. Relived against peer discrimination, he is now performing better.

As a Pakistani Christian, I have also faced such isolations as have many others. Its all about what one feels in Carrying the Cross. Some take pride in carrying it while others are too feeble and give up. Having said that we remain Proud Pakistanis.

To Doublec`s question as to who has excelled after Cornelius et al, well there are many. There are bankers, businessmen, red tapes in the armed forces, bureaucrats, engineers and doctors.

Re: # 51

Sir,

the point that you are missing is that christianity isn`t doing it for mohammad yosuf and myself, however its very capable of fulfilling billions of others and is doing so at the moment, so i dont think that writer is suggesting that all muslims are world class cricketers and or in order to be mentally stable all should be mulims instead of christians, it cant be any farther from the reality, what he is saying is that for yosuf an INDIVIDUAL it has worked out for the best. In Yosuf`s point of view christianity wasn`t the answer, Islam was. As a free citizen he has that right to make that choice and before everyone start quoting the incident of that afghan guy, let me be the first to say that as far as i am concerned any muslim has the right to convert to christianity if they sincerely feel that thats where the salvation is. My only contention is that if we insist of on being law-abiding citizens in USA then we must be proponents for law of the land be abided in every country how ever ridiculous it might be. If we live in a country we should follow the law of the land and if its not our cup of tea then migrate.

Let me also say that we in pakistan don`t treat minorities fairly. But it has less to do with the religion and more to do with the financial and social stature. establishment molest and ravage poor without religious discrimination. That caste-mentality has nothing to do with islam and everything to do with our past as hindus and the tribalistic and millitary/wadeyra shahi rut that we are stuck in ever since our inception.

abu_safwaan

This is the classic problem with interpretationism.

You (and gypsy_heart before you) suggest that the author is expanding on the benefits of being merely focused and/or `having his head in the right place.``

It seems to me (and a few others), on the other hand, that in this article Mr. Muzammil has essentially abused Christianity, declaring it a religion not on par with Islam as far as motivating someone (and many other good things) go.

Is there a rational approach to resolving this problem?

Re: # 49

Yes, Yes we should get a lecture on learning english from someone named devkant. The end must be near. Stop shaking your head first and wipe that dot off before you join your mates for high-tea @ the country club. Chinese and indians speaking english? This must be the best joke of the century. The reason you all are not able to relate with the insistance of muslims on being proud of their religion is because it`s rather hard to be proud of worshiping cows, monkeys, snakes elephants and who knows what else. Do us all a favor and preach your hindu-bretheren to start taking baths and get in the habbit of using deodrants before you march on to bring Muslim youth within the mainstream of the west.

I think the writer has made it abunduntly clear that not all good muslims are good cricketers that notion itself is obtuse, what he is saying that yosuf`s head is in a good place right now. The problem is not with yousuf the problem is with all you haters. He is quite comfertable in his skin, however you all are obssesed with his conversion. This absurd notion that he converted for captainacy is laughable. Can anyone put a hand on their heart and say this absurdity with a straight face? If he infact had converted for that reason alone, did he really have to go to this extreme, i mean can u not tell from his interview that this guy is really in to it and in my opinion for all the right reason. Its people with low self esteem who see an ulterior motive in everything, grow up and move on and get down on ur hands and knees and pray to whoever that you pray to that tomorrow kaneria doesnt have an epiphany otherwise you all will die with depression.

#47 by teshah on December 7, 2006 6:56pm PT
``A question, however, arises, ``Why don`t you blow your steam on those countries also which do not treat the Paky Muslim minority as they treat all minorities in their own country, especially the weaker ones, on religious grounds.``

i think teshah sahib, before asking this question you must have a look at different minorities in those countries and see how well have most integrated into the society except the pakistani muslims. I have personally seen pakistani muslims born and brought up in bradford in england and not being able to speak proper english. nothing is more rediculous than not being able to speak the language of the country where you are born and brought up.

and this is just the tip of the iceberg. how many pakistani muslims actually attend normal public schools. even if they do, how many end up finishing it and getting proper jobs. most pakistanis are so obsessed with their religion that apart from islam, they end up knowing nothing. the race riots a few years back in bradford and oldham and more recently in paris hasn`t helped either.

compare that with indian and chinese expats and see how well they have integrated in societies where they have migrated.

I think before blaming anyone, you must first look within yourselves and then point a finger.

rgds,

devkant.

teshah sahib,

Bhutto was under pressure by the mulla`s, you should know this as it happened when you were old enough than me.

and why should i below steam on other non muslim countries when Pakistan was the country i was born in, the country that i cared for in the same way a muslim did. Why was i made feel different then?

Sirji i was brought up in a liberal city like Karachi where religion was not such a big issue than the villages and i was still treated like a foreigner. I feel sorry for those mashi`s that were born in a village. My question to you is, why did you and the muslims of Pakistan not follow Quaid`s words? Why are we not given the same rights that are given to 98% of the population of Pakistan? Why do we have a separate voting system where i am forced to vote for someone who i have never met or may be living 100`s of miles away from me? What have you done to stop this injustice on your fellow country men?

Re: # 46

doublec

You say:

``I am just blowing steam on those ``open minded`` Muslims that seem smart but still act like ``jahils``.``

You are quite justified to do this as the most ``open minded` leader like Z.A. Bhutto had turned the very constitution of Pakistan into a `takfiri` fatwa against a section of the citizens of that country.

A question, however, arises, ``Why don`t you blow your steam on those countries also which do not treat the Paky Muslim minority as they treat all minorities in their own country, especially the weaker ones, on religious grounds.``

42 by devkant on December 7, 2006 5:33am PT


Devkant, I know Manto and have seen his work on other sites as well. and I am sure that he will fight for minorities rights as well.

I am just blowing steam on those ``open minded`` Muslims that seem smart but still act like ``jahils``.

Plus I am of the opinion that the Quaid wasted his life in getting Pakistan. I am sure he would not have take this step if he had a time machine and could have seen the future.

manto i dont think claims pakistan to be the land of minority rights..heck he himself had to convert twice already. he hopes one day it will be. but then it might become a part of akhand bharat by then ;-)

Re: # 43

There is neither an expectation nor an obligation for Pakistanis to treat
their minorities equally. Never have in Muslim history they have been
treated as equal. Pakistan was a state created by Muslims for the Muslims.
If minorities happen to live amongst them, they will be treated as per
the whims of Muslims, they can`t expect and demand anything.
If minorities get either treated courteously (never equally) or ignored,
it like a bonus and they should consider themselves lucky.

Re:devkant#42

[..you will be interested to know that there is a certain mr. montolives AKA yasser hamdani in chowk. ...]

Yeah, where is Mantolives? Now that Pakistani minorities are writing about their personal experience with bigotry, he has gone into hiding. So much for his tall claims of religious tolerance in pakistan.

#40 by doublec on December 6, 2006 4:22pm PT
``Don’t go giving me a speech on how there is no pressure to convert in Pakistan. I lived 20 + years there and had been asked over 10,000 times to convert as i am a ``good`` individual.

And then the Bas%^&*s come here (West) and ask for their rights..... Where are our rights in Pakistan? ``

Bhai....while we sympathize with you, you will be interested to know that there is a certain mr. montolives AKA yasser hamdani in chowk. This guy has unbelievable verbal wars with each and every person here who claims that pakistan does not respect the rights of minorities.

in case you are a non muslim from pakistan, i am sure that he will be interested in fighting for you, because that is what he stands for.

rgds,

devkant.

Re: # 39

Sorry Abu! Mahloom hota he mircheen aapko kuchh ziada hi lag gai hein. Heirat he aapko Musalli kehne par bhi mircheen lag gai hein. Aap jante hein musalli ka kia matlab he. Aap ki pagan zabaan mein isko `namazi` kehte hein. Kia yih gaali he jo aap is pih itne cheen bah jabeen ho rahe hein. Weise itlaan arz he kih Allah ne khud musallion par lahnat bheji he. See verse 4 of Sura Maoon as reproduced hereunder:

``Faweilul lil Musaleen.`` 107/4

(4. Barbadi he ‘Musalleeon’ ke lie (jo apne aapko ‘Namaazi’ kehte hein))

To aapke khayaal mein Allah bhi (Naouzbillah) musalliuon se jealous ho gia he?

Nahein Allah ne in par is lie lahnat bheji he kih inhon ne apne ghatia pan se mazhab ko bhi ek khel balkih mizaaq bana dia he.

#36 by batman on December 6, 2006 10:12am PT

Justice Cornilouis, Cecil Chaudhry are all old hands and enjoyed the good old days. Things are different now. Name one famous young Christian person that is a big shot in these times....i.e. post Zia.... you will not find any. BTW did you folks know that A. Nayer is also a Mashi? Guess what the A stands for?

Don’t go giving me a speech on how there is no pressure to convert in Pakistan. I lived 20 + years there and had been asked over 10,000 times to convert as i am a ``good`` individual.

And then the Bas%^&*s come here (West) and ask for their rights..... Where are our rights in Pakistan?

Re: # 29
Abb kya mein pagal budhayy kayy moonh lagoon. Aaap apnayy ghar mein bhii yaqeenan apnii bahoo baytiyoon sayy issii zaban mein guftugoo farmatayy hongayy..Kheyr anyway, whether i am a mussalii or not thats not the issue. Point of Contention is your madness and jelousy for a talented cricketer. There is no cure for jelousy however for ur lunacy you should consult a doctor, but maybe its just too late, it`ll soon be over anywayy so just hang on.

Ahmer,

A dose of orthodox Islam may have cured Yousaf, but it didn`t revive the careers of Saeed Anwar and Saqlain Mushtaq. Their confidence and technical flaws aggravated after their ``conversion``.

For every Mohamamd Yousaf, there is a John McEnroe or Imran Khan who plays best when he has worked up an anger... or been dating a trophy girlfriend.

He was under lots of pressure and he admitted it many a times. In the past few years many good players have been sidelined becuase they do not wear a beard. (Sarfraz Nawaz is on record saying this).
I also agree with DOUBLEC that he is greedy for money. In one case he did not hesistate to swindle computers from and education institution for the greed of it.

Those who think he converted because of captaincy, there are a lot of Christians in Pakistan who have been high achievers. Take Justice Cornilouis for that matter. Though he never played one match but for his contributions the main entrance of PCB`s office and the Gadhafi Stadium is named after him. Yousuf himself played as Captain during the time he was a christian. Cecil Chaudhry, one of the war heros wasnt muslim. I know a lot of people in the field of commerce who have done very good and are not muslims either. I doubt in modern Pakistan, a person`s religous background matters. Pakistanis let you go if you have a different religon. The problem starts if you say when you say are a muslim but you differ from their interpatation!

the best thing yohana (is that an un-islamic name because its the name of an apostle of a great nabi yesu?) did for his career is now he will get endorsment contract fromshampoo companies. in past the shampoo selling was not easy with inapropriate (unislamic) models. now they can use yohana as a model. soon there will be billboards in karachi with his beard selling sunsilk shampoo in place of inapropriate stuff like this.

Re #30 mantolives

``Brilliant Youhanna! ``


Is he as great as Cassius Clay?

mantolives # 30 writes ``Brilliant Youhanna!``

Manto, as you very well know that Muhammad Yousuf has converted to Islam, much to your chagrin. In the process he has also changed his name from Yousuf Youhanna to Muhammad Yousuf. But your insistence at referring to him by a name he does not want to use is highly disprectful and bad manners. Muhammad Yousuf wants to be referred to by his muslim name, and we should accord him that courtsey.

It would be as if we continue to refer to you as a mirzaee, even though you have changed from mirzaee to sunni to ismaili.

Regards

Re:manto#30

[...Brilliant Youhanna! ....]

Sure, but he is not Youhanna anymore. The poor guy succumbed to the non-stop societal pressure in Pakistan to become a muslim.

It is clearly evident that people in Pakistan are totally obsessed beyond all rational limits with Islam. They wear the religion on their sleeve, shout about it from rooftops and in case you still miss it, point it out to you in your face that they are devout muslims. Take the author of this article for instance. He is an educated, average Pakistani guy living in the US and working in the IT industry. But scratch the surface, and you see the naked gloating over the conversion of one man from Christianity to Islam. The triumphant tone of his artice, his conviction that he is Allah`s chosen, is just breathtaking, as if Yousuf Yohanna personally scored a victory of Islam over Christianity. If a ordinary person thinks like this, multiply that with the vast illiterate millions living in Pakistan and you can sense the incessant, non-stop, not so subtle pressure to ``revert`` to Islam.

So much for Jinnah`s dream of a secular country!!

It`s rubbish to link religion with sports.

Though Imran was a religious man I dont rememebr him invoking the name of Bismillah.....in the presentation ceremonies. I first came across such invocation by Waqar Younis and later by Inzi (in all presentations). I find that invocation odd in sporting arenas. Imagine for a while Freddie/Rahul saying, Jesus is the saviour/Har Har Mahadev or some other slogan or sloka? Sounds ridiculous!

I think religion became Pakistan`s only weapon but not the cricketing abilities! Though my favourite is Younis Khan in the current lot, Yousouf is indeed a class player but look at what happend in the recent past. Younis was offered captaincy but when he refused (bcoz of Shahryar Khan??) the mantle was passed on to Yosouf but Yousouf was treated like a real choorha when Younis prefered to take back captaincy when PCB placated Younis by sacking Sharyar Khan! PCB preferred to sack a cricket mandarin (a royal/Princely material) and bring-in Younis as captain than having choorha as Pakistan`s captain! (I dislike to call Yousof with this tag but that`s how Pakistan treated him in the recent episode of captaincy issue).

I agree with Mr. TE Shah`s opinion on cricket in Indian subcontinent. It was started & promoted by Indian Princes who tried to get closer to the British during Raj. Most of the Indian players in the early history of Indian cricket are Princes. They even promoted this game by becoming cricket mandarins during Raj and after Raj as well. We still have Baroda, Saurastra, Hyderabad teams i.e Princely State teams i/o state-wise teams!

Now in the commercial age it doesnt need any promotion as cricket became `the` game of our countries. The one-day game even gave India a new identity i.e sky blue colour became the symbol of India. Even our PM Dr. Singh signifies that by putting a blue turban on his head. The football crazy Bengalis now rate cricket ahead of football! It came to such a pass that even Englishmen (who gave us this game) poke fun at us for being cricket maniacs!

Only Gujaratis come closer to Pakistanis when it comes to mistaking cricket for national pride. They burst firecrackers whenever India wins against Pakistan. In 1995 or 96, there were spaonteneous Garba dances by Gujarati women in Ahmedabad when India defeated Pakistan in Bangalore (World Cup, I think). It`s a mark of celebration for them. I have not heard of such open display of street celebrations in other parts of India.

As for religious fervour in cricket, the praying women and men in Sharjah still reels.....players and Pak public are alike when it comes to cricket.

Brilliant Youhanna!

May God bless him.

Re: # 27

Aapki gaand mein mirchein kion lkag gai hein? Kia aap bhi musalli hein ya aapko bhi us musalli loot se kuchh hissah milla he? Did you ever ponder why rulers, especially the illegitimate ones, are interested so much in cricket? It is the best way to keep the people busy and to forget politics even if it is manifestly against the Mush`s cult of enlightenment and moderation - Yousaf`s unkempt extra long beard and raising his ass in the oval. In fact cricket is essentially an immoral game, engendering greed, selfishness and jealousy instead of sport and team-spirit.

MYOPIC VIEWS

Re: # 21

Shah Sahab, There is a saying in Urdu ``Nach na janayy Aangan tayrha``. Although i have no doubt that you come from a ``Dancing`` family but your furiosity at mohammad yosuf has more to do with the failures of your own kids. Look it up it`s called ``Low-Self Esteem``. Yosuf might have hailed from a por family, but he has more class and character in his lil pinky finger than your entire lineage, i gave you an advice to wise up and fear the wrath of the creator that you are about to encounter in very very near future. Buzurgoo qabarr mein paoon latkayeyy baythayy hoo orr tharakk nahii khatam horahii

gypsy_heart, this should have rightly been a great opportunity for any nation to come together to bask in cricketing glory. The author squanders that opportunity.

Instead, he leaves any outsider with only two alternative conclusions: Either Christianity is a debilitating physical and mental handicap. Or Pakistan is a very very abnormal country.

wow!! this country must have been pregnant with bigots, to allow a masih -belonging to a family of sweepers, a guy who played uptill his teenage days with his amma`s washing sticks in impoverished slums- the privilege and opportunity to climb up to the national cricket team, and consequently to the vice captaincy of the country. how could a christian get to such a high rank in pakistan nationals?? sacrilege indeed!! and how could we allow a devoted hindu to be our primary spinner?? blasphemy! blasphemy! we should send him to india to help them continue their home dominance on their dusty pitches.

im sure the whole of pakistan is bearded with sword wagging moulvis waging Allah`s holy jehad!! every single man dresses solely in shalwar kamiz -no doubt above his ankles- and all women veil their faces in dread of these raping bearded pakis!! what else could there be in pakistan, absolutely nothing else!!

And no, it is not his conversion to Islam credible for his immense form, but as anyone who has found a new belief, turned a new leaf in his prolifgate life can emphasize, that a new faith -or a reinvigorated faith- brings along with it a new found discipline, inner peace, focus, and belief in your own abilities, indeed all religions preach same virtues and discipline of soul, albeit in a variety of forms and languages!!

or it could all be put down to a new found love, a loving wife, a peaceful married life, as credited by ricky ponting for his recent amazingly prolific form, after his early binge drinking and bar brawling indisciplined days.

in the end, in any profession or passion, it needs focus, discipline, self-confidence, along with the inherent skill to scale great heights!! whatever might be the tool to achieve those qualities; a great example is two hugely talented bastmen and childhood friends of our age, sachin tendulkar and vinod kambli, one reached atop, the other ended up in minor bollywood roles!!

Please consider the FACT that author lives in Karachi, a city, which went through
an extra-ordinary voilent phase for two , decades, obviously it has dis-oriented a lot from that city.


...they will come back to their senses, ........in say........ another decade, provided things remained calm.

Despite the temptation to rip into the author like a hungry vulture rips into carrion, all I will say is that the Muslim world needs more role models like Mohammed Yousuf. If converting to Islam has given him the mental strength he lacked earlier, then good for him. If his family indeed made his life hell for converting, then a plague be upon them.

He is a brilliant batsman, one the entire subcontinent can be proud of, and comes across as very good human being. More power to him.

``even if it means eating bhindi ``(hamidm)

why? -- do you have something against the hairy lady`s finger? -- or lady`s hairy fingers?

It is shere non-sense. Cricket is no longer a sport but a profession so downgraded that it is fit now only for `Chooras` (sweepers) and `kanjars`. In fact, in the sub-continent, when a chora (Shoodar) converted or more aptly, reverted to Islam, he is called a Musalli and not a Muslim. Yousaf Yuhanna has proved that he has `reverted` from a Masih to a Musalli by chnging his name given to him by his parents as none of the greatest of the Muslims like Hazrat Farooq change their names on accepting Islam.

It appears not only the game of cricket the entire Paky nation has been `musallized`. Look at Mush who paid Rs.50 lacs to that Musalli for making so much runs in cricket like a Mughal king squandering public money at his sweet will despite his long immoderate unkempt beard. It is perhaps the very camouflage provided by his long beard that has added to his run count. Or he may have contrived it by fixation which is not uncommon nowadays in cricket when you can win such a big reward by which you can purchase the whole team.

Ricky Ponting for 2005/06
Matches:12 Runs:1483 Avg:78.05 100s:8 50s:6 (not including the 196 at perth)

I heard he reverted to a more attacking style since the last couple of years.

#7 by xcom_cheetah on December 4, 2006 7:43am PT
Very well summed up thing... although i see most of the people here have bashed you but the number of evil will always surpass by the number of righteous...

X comm you are so true..... the Muslim Population is increasing world wide. (i.e the number of evil)

Insularity is the curse of the human race. I have never ever heard a person from any other nation or religion crowing about the greatness of his religion or community as unabashadly as Pakistanis.

People whose thoughts are bound in ideas like `punjabi`, muslim-non-muslim aren`t Muslim. Why o why do Pakistanis take so much pride in being `Muslim` and knowing the `true way to live?.` Verily that makes them non-muslim, because doesn`t Allah punish takabbur?`.
Anyway, a little bit of prophetizing, since that sells so much in the Land of the Pure. Of course the prophet of Islam has a monoply, but here`s hoping for some affirmative action.

As for spirituality, it has gone the way of the dodos, instead arrogance, materialism and hypocricy have taken root. And yet the people call themselves Muslims.

S

This article actually IS all over the place...
but still.... i agree with most of the things u said and put in a less dramatized/romanticized way these things are quite true...
the article itself might not be worthy of a lot of praise but the thoughts definitely are...
overall a very good piece

and yes further to #15, the award of most efficient editing goes to chowk editors.

And the award of bigotry goes to the author for using the word reversion instead of conversion.

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why did he change his name? is yohana not islamic enough?

I somehow agree with #10 below. The records made earlier were tougher to get because not that much of cricket was played back then as it is played now. Also, there was no such thing as `ball tempering` and all the speedsters used to do it. Yousaf while very good, is not the calibre of Viv Richards who was quite effortlessly a batting giant.

leaving aside M.Y.`s religious views, he did achieve something great in this cricketing age. Even batsmen like Ponting, Matthew Hayden, Lara or Dravid have not been able to achieve something like this.

But I still consider the Great Viv Richards` record as more significant because his runs were scored against greater bowlers like Lillee, Hadlee, Imran Khan, Thomson etc and in an age where the pitches actually offered something to the bowlers unlike the dust bowls of today. Even home matches for Richards would not have been batsmen friendly on account of the great bowlers in his team. M.Y. scored majority of his runs on Pakistani pitches where even someone like M.S. Dhoni made a huge score.

M.Y.`s is an achievement which however should still be kept in perspective.

just when you thought it was not possible to sink any lower, chowk has hit a new low !

............ this is the kind of garbage that makes me want to `revert` to the religion of grandpa gopinath even if it means eating bhindi and running around in a loin cloth for the rest of my life .............

chowk staff, wake up !

C`mon.. Chowk hasn`t been able to find better than this trash to publish?

FV has several flaws, but mediocre selection was not one of them. Bring her back!!

Very well summed up thing... although i see most of the people here have bashed you but the number of evil will always surpass by the number of righteous... Thats the lesson Islam teaches and thats the test true Muslim faces... ``Alas! why these people don`t ponder without prejudice``

For Pakistan -- it appears that Islam has become a debilitating disease that afflicts every aspects of its rationality. How tragic!

this proves that the secrets to championship cricketing are also in Holy Qoran and in Holy beard -- and in conversion to become a champion `Naumuslim`.

Now -- considering the utterly dismal performance of the `old` Muslims all over the world -- my suggestion would be -- that all born loser muslims should first convert to become `poor Christian family` -- and then reconvert to become bearded `naumuslims` champions once again -- ``bahre Zulmaat meiN daura diye ghoray hum nay``........to rule the world again .......how about that?

It was a wonderful cricketing achievement and full credit to him--all Pakistanis should be proud. Although I am happy at his conversion to Islam, and he is no doubt very devout, that has NOTHING to do with his cricketing excellence at all.

It is stupid to link the two. They are not related. Saqlain Mushtaq is also very devout and a owner of a big beard too--but he is washed out as a cricketer. Muslims who try to find links where there are none do their religion a big disservice.

At the same time, people who put his conversion down to materialistic reasons are just being spiteful and mean and are not worth responding to. To these silence is the best answer.

What a ridiculous attempt at finding non-existing links between a cricketer`s form and his change of religion! Did Brian Lara make the highest test score because he is a Christian? Is Sachin`s tally of the most test centuries because he is a Hindu?

Writer wrote:

I find it amazing that there are millions upon millions of Muslims by birth who take their faith for granted, some openly mock it and here is a man who was born in a poor Christian family in a society where minorities tend to stick together (that’s why you hardly see any reversions in Muslim societies as compared to the west), reached the heights of stardom and financial bliss but still felt that emptiness that Rock star Cat Stevens, Mohammad Ali, Malik al-shahbaz Malcom X, Junaid Jamshed and 20,000 Americans every year amongst others encounter and eventually found the solace in Islam.

WHATEVER........... Dude do you think he converted because he thought that Islam was the RIGHT religion?????? NEWS FLASH!!!!!! He wants to become the captain of the team and being a Mashi would not get him there, the same way being a Mashi does not let you go over the ranks of a Major in the Army or a high ranked officer in a govt. or a top job at any private company. So spare me the shit of him finding the solace he has just proved that he is more interested in money than anything else.

TRUST me of this information because I worked for the media managers for the entire cricket in Pakistan and have seen his hungry Punjabi ass begging us for an LG washing machine. He is as materialistic as you an me however he is smart in knowing how to get want he wants even if it is to change his religion.

[...No wonder then Yosuf is playing now like a weight has been lifted off of his shoulder. ...]

Have you considered the possiblity that Yosuf was facing a miserable life as a minority in Pakistan? If an average educated person from Pakistan like yourself makes such a big deal about religion, how can any minority live a normal life there? The only weight lifted off his shoulder was the weight of being a persecuted minority.

Anyway, congrats for getting the n+1th convert or ``revert`` to your religion. Hope someone up there actually keeps score.

On the flip side, maybe the Indian team needs to ``revert`` to Islam as well, given the way these jokers are playing these days.