India, Pakistan and the Kashmir dispute

Re: # 330

Add on to point 2.

How can I/we forget abt the hundreds of photos published in Jinnah`s newspaper Dawn abt the city of Karchi flaoting on sewage and another photo os people treating paalak with sewage water.

Dirtiness is digested into ur systems. Can anybody cure u??

Re: # 296

HP,

....... thanks for your insightful, astute and optimistic analysis of the kashmir issue - for a moment there anil and dost almost convinced me to abandon the poor kashmiris to be raped and pillaged by the barbarians from the south and east ........ i feel rejuvinated and ready to fight to the last kashmiri ..........

........ but i disagree with you on the personal hygiene and cleanliness issue - indians and pakistanis are definitely the filthiest people on earth and, according to al gore, a bigger threat to the environment than global warming .......... just as you don`t want to sit across form a bihari or madrasi, you don`t want to stand downwind from a pathan or a punjabi .........

.............. merry christmas

Re: # 308

So how is the domestic dispute resolving?... are you out of the dog house yet?... :)

Re: # 296

HP mian:

Arree holiday season mein tou... Yeh kahan se khawab mein haddi ley aye aap.

Dosoton se to dushmani kari hai apne bahut.. Dushmano se dosti kar key to dekhiye aap.

bj #282 ``you could learn a lot by spending more time reading my principled and tempered responses``

Gee Whiz!! You are indeed a role model for the rest of us, Mr. Temperance Man. :-)

#290 it won`t do to make fun of people`s names, mr. BJ (snicker) Kumar!

To bjkumar #287,

contrary to how you`ve put it, I am not insulting my own religion when you quoted the following from my previous post

[Muslims are intolerant, Pakistanis are a bunch of lunatics and that we are a bunch of selfish arrogant egotistical morons.]

You did not read what I had said before, or at least did not include it in the quote, but I said that people like the characters in question would make a neutral, or an outside person, think that this is what we are.

And no, I won`t recommend changing the name of Pakistan. I can only dream of the day when outsiders will actually feel our people justify the tag but as long as there are people like hamidm who obviously don`t give a toss about other people`s lives (as long as it`s not theirs) we are going to have that image. Sad fact in life...very sad. But the name should be there so that other people with some level of compassion and intellect left in them would know what we should be trying to achieve. Even a small change in heart or a movement can create a huge force that only cowards refuse to acknowledge. you only have to look at history from any part of the world and you will see that it`s not that impossible.

#286

Yes, I am mortally afraid of the gray panthers! But I am impressed that you still have $12.50 left after donating all of your material possessions to the Right Honorable Congressman Eatallofus Towns from Brooklyn, New York! He may feel sad to hear that news and also may feel rather helpless that he failed you.

#283 by saadmd

Absolutely, I agree with you sir – especially on what you tell us regarding certain seedy chowk characters! It is more than sad – it is downright devastatingly painful! Yet, they call themselves “Men”! Perhaps the term “mice” is more appropriate. And the Indo-Pakistani border was exactly what was needed so the two communities could gaze fondly at each other from across, instead of breathing down each others’ neck as they had been doing for all those centuries – much good it did them! (But why do you think those Hindus were wiped off in the land of the Pure?)

[Muslims are intolerant, Pakistanis are a bunch of lunatics and that we are a bunch of selfish arrogant egotistical morons.]

This sounds rather harsh but I can understand how those certain interactors can provoke you!

[We can`t be perfect but perfection must be strived for in order to achieve excellence.]

Does it mean you recommend changing the name of the “Land of the Pure” or will the rose smell just as before under any other name?

I agree that TOLERANCE on the part of Pakistani Muslims is the key. Perhaps Maulana Masood Azhar should be listening to you. Perhaps the Pakistani khakis, too.

Are you sure you are not I?

It is actually quite sad when I see Pakistanis who feel they have the right to talk about Kashmir and represent Pakistan when they don`t even understand what their religion expects of them. They call themselves `Men`. I`m not a romantic and don`t think that the actual underlying reason for the formation of Pakistan was the Hindu/Islamic divide (though our corrupt politicians do insist that was the reason and not their greed) I still believe that the concept was sound. If it wasn`t for our religious differences, then really how do you justify the existence of the border. As I have said in my very first post (#198), the border is there to give the Hindu Muslim communities a breathing space and look at each other from an arm`s length rather than getting into each others face. Can you imagine the whole of Pakistan being one big issue like Kashmir is today?

People like hamidm2 and tahmed obviously can`t see that. They actually stand to prove to the other religions that Muslims are intolerant, Pakistanis are a bunch of lunatics and that we are a bunch of selfish arrogant egotistical morons. Believe me when I say this, there are people in Pakistan who are concerned about the Kashmiris and don`t look at Kashmir as a vacation spot or a piece of land.

As for tahmed trying to be the judge and jury on my argument with hamidm2, it was hamidm2 who misinterpreted my post. The only place where I mentioned hamidm2 in #263 was as an example of the sort of people who get agitated if we, as Muslims, back down and make it an issue with their ego (which clearly fits hamidm2 very well). I never told him to go and adopt a Kashmiri. I was just telling the pakistanis in general reading this forum that the day we become that tolerant to our own Muslim brothers, this problem can solve itself.

We can`t be perfect but perfection must be strived for in order to achieve excellence. I know being that tolerant is clearly dreaming too much, but moving in that direction will go a long way towards improving the state of our country. We clearly can`t allow this to go on too long as both Paksitan and Kashmir are under the risk of being perished. And the statement about earning brownie points was more of a question: what the hell are you numb nuts really trying to achieve in this forum, because your insulting tirades are absolutely useless and you`re digressing from the actual issue here. Have we heard one sound reasoning from you guys, have we heard one suggestion about which direction the two countries should take, anything???? What have you guys achieved so far from this forum other than convincing the rest of the world that what they think about the Muslims and Pakistanis was actually right all along!

Re: # 283

Ouch... a timely kick in mullah32`s bu!!... :)

saadmd is right on this: ``the day we become that tolerant to our own Muslim brothers, this problem can solve itself.``... muslims in general and pakis in particular must learn to live peacefully among themselves - only then things will improve for them... whining about kashmir, palestine, whatever ain`t going to make any difference...

Re: # 283

sinyasi baba knows everything

saad mian,

....... i hate to inform you that this forum is primarily meant for hurling bile and insults at people you don`t really know, or care to know - it is equivalent to `kicking the dog` ........ since half the people on this forum are good muslims who do not believe in touching dogs and menstruating women, and the the other half are horrible hindoos who the dogs (and women) won`t have anything to do with, it is the best we can do ......... to be honest we do not have the desire, nor the capability, to resolve major issues like kashmir, male impotency, incontinence, global warming or hemmaroids from which most sub-continentals seem to suffer ....... if you are really serious about solving any of these problems please consult sinyasi baba of gujranwala who has his name plastered all over the walls of houses that line the railroad tracks .....

#281

[I guess I did react a bit strongly]

Yes sir, you did. Even a person in your age group, with countless aeons of experience in dealing with people - especially as regards telling people sometimes titillating and sometimes merely tall tales on what to tell - can learn a lesson in temperance. Truly, you could learn a lot by spending more time reading my principled and tempered responses, like the Pakistanis claim to have been following in all matters related to Kashmir - my responses which I always temper even in response to the greatest of provocations - to Mr. Hamdani, one of the choicest of beneficiaries.

Re: # 282

bjkumar,

......... stop insulting older people, or else!!! ............ earlier this year i qualified for membership in the aarp and if you are not careful i might just plunk down the 12.50 to join the most powerful group in the world and sic the millions of senior citizens and their lawyers on you .......... remember, we control 90% of the wealth and all the shuffel board courts in this country !

hamidm: I guess I did react a bit strongly to what anil wrote, since upon re-reading his post I see he was referring to Pakistan as being an ``extremist cancer stricken place``, and he does later clarify when he says ``Yes, I do believe terrorism of any kind, wherever it exists, and yes including in Pakistan, is a cancer to the fabric of that society. I also believe and have said so that caste and communal hatred in India is a cancer in India`s fabric and must be eradicated.``

These are indeed the bitter facts of the subcontinent, hard though it may be to hear for a pakistani if they come from an indian, and vice versa.

Sorry anil, for unfairly stretching what you wrote about extremist elements to Pakistan as a nation. As I said before, regardless of our differences of opinion (and/or misunderstandings) on chowk sometimes, I wish you good health and all the best in real life. Cheers. :-)

#278 sadna - there`s also the fact that the older generation, regardless of nationality, is more sexist - look at harimau.