India, Pakistan and the Kashmir dispute

Re: # 392

Awwww - hamidm mian - that was touching... coming from you, it was rich... boo hoo :)

Anyway - that report didn`t say who is doing the ``sexual violence``... how much by indians, how much by the freedom figthers... just for information...

Re: # 394

mohar mian,

the report did say:

``The 30-page report says that almost 99.2 percent of people reported having confronted crackdowns and search operations between 1989 and 2005. Some 85.7 percent reported being frisked by security forces.``

......... i think it is quite obvious who did the bulk of the sexual violence too, but i am sure there was some violence from the other side as well, specially against the non-muslim population ......... in any case, it is sad that you folks don`t see anything wrong with it ......

Re: # 396

Searching and frisking doesn`t indicate ``sexual violence``... that`s ``normal`` part of security operation... I am not saying the indians didn`t do it - just want to get a clear picture - which the report fails to provide, for whatever reasons...

we see there is a lot that has gone wrong in kashmir: jihad, enthnic cleansing, security crackdown, civil rights violations... it`s all connected... we don`t pick and choose one part of it...
++++

That said - americans have done a lot wrong in iraq too... I haven`t seen you saying anything about it... thousands dead, rapes, torture, abu ghraib, wanton destruction of infrastructure, properties, art, museums...

Kashmir is almost a picnic compared what you americans have done in iraq... 60,000 dead in kashmir over 15 years of insurgency/jihad.... 100,000 dead in iraq in just 3 years... very few kashmiris have left kashmir, 5 million iraqis have left iraq at last count... all said and done - thousand attacks donot happen each week in kashmir, kashmir has more tourists now than entire pakiland combined... we can go on and on...

So Be careful where you shed your crocodile tears - it may be comeback to bite you... :)

#388 by Mantolives on December 27, 2006 7:26am PT

yes yes...it was minorities who were asking for the nation of Pakiland, a land where they`d have an equal shot at making a mark..like president, COAS, chief justice(the real thing, not a temp sit-in)...even a billionaire perhaps...

Sexual violence highest in Kashmir amongst conflict ridden regions

By Iftikhar Gilani

NEW DELHI: Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF), also known as Doctors Without Borders, has in a recently published report found that the incidence of sexual violence in Jammu and Kashmir is highest amongst the conflict ridden regions in the world.

The Dutch Nobel Prize winning global network also says problems like mental health and psychological morbidity have increased during the past six years in Jammu and Kashmir. Its report says that a large section of population in the state feels insecure and almost 44 percent have reported mistreatment.

The organisation carried out a survey last year in Budgam and Kupwara districts. An alarming 11.6 percent of respondents said “they had experienced violation of their modesty” – which is far higher than in other conflict areas such as Sierra Leone (2%), Sri Lanka (2%), Chechnya (0%) and Ingushetia (0.1%). More than one in 10 respondents in Kashmir said they had experienced sexual violence during the last three months. As many as 68 respondents (13.3%) had actually witnessed a rape since 1989 and 26 respondents (5.1%) had witnessed rape more than five times.

Almost one-third of respondents said they were so unhappy they were thinking of committing suicide. “Such a high percentage of suicidal tendencies within a population holding strong religious beliefs that condemn the act of suicide is a worrying indicator of the level of despair and hopelessness,” says the report.

The 30-page report says that almost 99.2 percent of people reported having confronted crackdowns and search operations between 1989 and 2005. Some 85.7 percent reported being frisked by security forces.

Almost 39 percent reported damage to their property. In addition, 33.7 percent said they were forced to work for security forces, while 18.7 percent said they were forced to give shelter to combatants. In the same period, one in six respondents said they had been legally or illegally detained.

The MSF survey reported that almost everyone detained, whether legally or illegally, had been subjected to torture. Three-fourth of respondents were witness to arrests and half of them witnessed mistreatment. Amongst them, 9 percent reported mental problem, while 62 percent suffered from high levels of anxiety.

The survey also found a high incidence of physical complaints including headaches (23.5%), body pains such as joint and back complaints (20.5%), and abdominal complaints (16.9%).

PS: While it could be said that an overwhelming majority of Hindus and Sikhs opposed the Pakistan movement in Punjab and Bengal areas.... it cannot be said every Non-muslim or even every hindu and sikh opposed it...

The role of Christian organisations in support of the Muslim League is well known and Ijaz Gul is progeny of one of the christian workers of the Pakistan movement... similarly the Scheduled Caste Federation and other untouchable organisations under the leadership of Mandal etc supported the Muslim League... and even Khushwant Singh reminisced in his essay in the collection Lahore that he supported Muslim League`s Pakistan Movement never expecting it to be a cmplete partition.

Here too Pakistan`s creation differs from that of the State of Israel.

#381 by ntsyed on December 27, 2006 1:46am PT


Hence, the real question for the Banya right now is whether he would like only the predominantly Muslim states [under his illegal occupation] to be ruled by Muslims, or the entire Hindustan.


Is this the part where I`m supposed to be all scared and quake in my boots at the inevitable prospect of a 100% ntsyed-certified islamic state of Pakiland taking over Indian Kashmir....?

Is dope smoking going to be legal in the 100% islamic state of Pakiland?

Dear VRV,

I see the mirchi has had its effect on you. Again- it was not directed at you but it worked and I am glad.


Dear Dost mittar,

Things are not that simple I am afraid... we as human beings have several identities and we live in over lapping portions of several. Jinnah recognised that even when he was about to win his case... when he cautioned Mountbatten against dividing Punjab and Bengal as they were legitimate sub-national identities that transcended religious boundaries? Paradox? Not really ... except for those who use the occam`s razor where it ought not to be used. Identity is always imagined- I might as well claim that I am a Lahori by identity with an identity in common with all citizens of Lahore and I`d be right and my friend might claim that being a Muslim is his identity and he may equally be correct.... In reality we can be all of these and none of these... who cares? What is important is that the law protects everyone equally and without prejudice to their self styled imagined identities.

There is a very big difference between Israel and Pakistan... Pakistan is the sum of regional identities +2 (local Muslim solidarity and the Urdu language - though this +2 can also be equally divisive) .... where as Israel is based on the identity of the global Jewry with no regional roots. Pakistan in contrast is nothing if not local... Underlying the broad the two nation theory framework were several complex identities at work... do you for example think Sir Sikandar Hayat- an erstwhile Unionist and ally of Sir Chotu Ram- moved the Lahore Resolution- because he believed Hindus and Muslims constituted two different nations?

I think now enough documents have been declassified for us to know the truth... both about partition and the complex nature of forces - including the basic point of divergence aka the conflicting interests of Hindu and Muslim bourgeoisies- for us to continuously repeat the oft repeated national myths and dogmas on both sides... namely the one nation theory and the two nation theory as two mutually exclusive vipers going at each other.

I wrote a piece on Jinnah which was published yesterday on another website which is quite relevant to this discussion:

http://pakistaniat.com/2006/12/25/pakistan-jinnah-legislative-career/

Re: # 386

My Friend, U think it got my chin.....far from it. I am hapy that u concentrate on ur own welfare than demanding from India.

Something wrong with ur psychology. U are a straight-faced pervert with blinkers piling one upon the other and u pile one banality upon others on ur ilogs simulteneosuly??

What a life!

correction to 384:

``area not constituting Israel`` should read ``areas now constituting Israel``.

tahmed32#369:

I am glad that you see the point.

But let me add this. The religious basis of the movement does not in itself make it illegitimate. Non-Jews living in the area not constituting Israel opposed its creation and non-muslims of Bengal, Punjab and Sindh opposed the creation of Pakistan; still the movements were held to be quite legitimate. The point I am trying to make is that Ben Gurion created Israel in the name of Zionism and did not claim to create state based on Palestinian identity; similarly Jinnah created Pakistan in the name of Muslim identity and not in the name of Bengali, Punjabi or Sindhi identity.

So, it is quite legitimate for Urstruly and other Islamists to to support a movement whose popular slogan is ``Pakistan se rishta kya, la-ilaha il-allah``. However, it does pose a dilemma for secular Pakistanis who do not wish to be identified with a religion-based insurgency, so they continue to hide in the burqa of self-determination and UN resolutions.

#380 CoolAl

[what makes the word ``Paki`` derogatory?]

The answer is here.

I wonder about this....

Is calling a British citizen a ``Brit`` derogatory? Is calling an Australian ``Aussie`` derogatory? Is calling a Swedish citizen a ``Swede`` derogatory?

Therefore, what makes the word ``Paki`` derogatory?

J-man didn`t say Kashmir was Pakiland`s jugular vein..Indians still don`t give a paki`s rear...

Quaid never termed Kashmir jugular vein of Pakistan: Amanullah

By Mariana Baabar

ISLAMABAD: As historical facts pertaining to Kashmir are being put in their correct perspective by the government, a debate has started whether Quaid-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah had called Kashmir Pakistan’s jugular vein.

Amanullah Khan, Supreme Head of the JKLF has said that the Quaid-i-Azam had never termed Kashmir as jugular vein of Pakistan as contended by many Pakistanis and in this regard if proven wrong he was ready to accept any severe punishment.

so unless India hands over Kashmir, Pakiland doesn`t want trade..trade that will benefit Pakiland more...

reminds me of children who won`t take their medicine unless you give them candy...

Trade ties with India linked to politicial issues: Pakistan

OUR STAFF REPORTER
ISLAMABAD-Pakistan Tuesday reiterated that its economic relations with India were definitely linked with the political reality and could not be viewed in isolation, a spokesman for Ministry of Commerce said on Tuesday.
In a statement issued here, he said Pakistan has gradually liberalized trade with India and just recently 302 new items have been made importable from India. But he added, “the economic relations between the two countries are definitely linked with the political reality and cannot be viewed in isolation.”
India is consistently exerting pressure on Pakistan to grant Most-Favoured Nation (MFN) status on reciprocal basis as it had already awarded this status to Pakistan some 10 years ago. New Delhi wants from Islamabad the same facilities it provided under South Asia Free Trade Agreement (SAFTA) for the other SAARC member countries.
However, Pakistan is demanding repeatedly to move alike on all the fronts including the core issue of Kashmir. India has already raised the issue in the SAFTA ministerial meeting held few months ago and the issue might come again under discussion during the visit of Indian Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee to Islamabad next month.

Re: # 376 arjun2

``so unless India hands over Kashmir, Pakiland doesn`t want trade..trade that will benefit Pakiland more...``

Why would the Indians initiate something that benefits Pakistan more? The Banya can neither be that intelligent nor foresighted nor benevolent. Otherwise, he would have cured the ills afflicting its masses, mostly of lower castes and non Hindus, a long time ago.

He needs to understand that very soon Pakistan will be a proper Islamic state, with Shari`ah enforced in its entirety. Every move the hijackers [read current rulers] make now is a reminder invitation to the Khilafah preparing to take over. Not to mention the moves against the Muslims outside Pakistan are undeniable impetus to this movement.

Hence, the real question for the Banya right now is whether he would like only the predominantly Muslim states [under his illegal occupation] to be ruled by Muslims, or the entire Hindustan. Both options can be arranged in a jiffy.

If he wishes for the latter, then he must keep in mind that next time around his collusion with the outsiders will be crushed beyond imagination by the rules he has formulated thus far.

:-)~~