India, Pakistan and the Kashmir dispute

Salim_Chauhan
>>>I will not apologize for my hopes and dreams.

More power to you Sir!

Won`t it would be interesting, just for fun, to list the gains/losses for both countries, after such a reunification, however unlikely.

Re: # 128

Ahmedmadani Sahib:

BTW, I would like to understand 4.5 year trend analysis, if you could send me at: anilkapuria@yahoo.com

On Hoodboy`s board I had posted my views about Unity. Personally I prefer diversity over unity. Regarding religious beliefs, I am attracted toward ``Is man the best creation of God, or is God the best imagination of man``, and respect that there can never be single answer.

Regarding NED, I read here that it is probably the best technological institution in Pakistan. My point is with what dreams a graduate of such institution comes to commence his / her life in the real world. It is this dream which is important for the individual and society he or she decides to settle down. I am sure when someone graduates from the best military academy in Pakistan, the cadet must be dreaming to reach the pinnacle. In both cases what graduates turn out is the different phase altogether. It would be sinful for a great institution to not provide an ability to dream, or have a dream to achieve some thing say a babu, if you do not like, thekedar of jamadars on affirmative actions. Please ask the female relative who graduated from NED what her dream is. The way importance of knowledge was knocked down by this graduate, is what I question, colorful or colorless contributions not withstanding.

As the world moves away from our generation, there are several shifts that are taking place. Your analysis of Canadian stocks attest to one such shift. Gross Knowledge Product (GKP) of people will be more important, and not Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of nations. Many products we hold dear will be no more than the wrappers we discard, but knowledge will only add power to the people.

In GDP society creation of job / work and profit was essential, in GKP society, the paradigm is ``In knowledge lies the power``. Even America, and Europe are raising voices about the shift in knowledge base toward Asia, simply because of demographics of the India and China are such that these regions will produce more talent to gather bigger and bigger Gross Knowledge Product to these regions. If institutions in Pakistan permit this to happen, nothing can stop young Pakistanis.

This weeks, Economist has a very interesting news about low cost cars. This news mentions that the China is unable to produce low cost cars, as its car production is copy of expensive cars and plants from developed countries. India is trying to produce a 100,000 rupee car ($2,100) car. The company, Tata Motors would be able to come up with a car under $3,000, and that is yet to go in production.

As a footnote, it mentioned about some Trident Motor company in Karachi Pakistan, which has produced a $2,200 car, which like Tata`s car is completely designed and production facility tooled in Pakistan. This company has already shipped this car to middle eastern companies and as far as Chile. I am certain such footnotes can become news in themselves.

I am equally confident that these Pakistani technocrats and entreprenuers of this Pakistani company did not dream to become ``thekedar of jamadars of septic tank cleaners in a red-neck state, and that too on affirmative action program. These entreprenuers have achieved what deserves to be brought out as role model, and not ``thekedar of jamadars on affirmative action``.

Whatever, venting the young-turks have done at Chowk against all and one, I indeed see a streak of fighting and killer instinct of a street fighter. What would happen if you give them a way to dream and tools to realize the dream. Just think about it, Ahmedmadani sahib.

In the meantime please do not forget to send me your 4.5 year trend analysis.

``#121 by Salim_Chauhan on December 20, 2006 7:57am PT
I will not apologize for my hopes and dreams. At this point, Pakistanis need reunification much more than Indians, but the undoing of partition will benefit both countries. India is incomplete without ALL of Bengal, Punjab, Sindh, Kashmir, Baluchistan, and Sarhad. Religion-based politics have given us sectarian violence, dictatorship, suicide bombings, Taliban, UBL, Thackeray, and Modi. ``

mr. chauhan,

i seriously recommend you take a reality check. if partition was bad, reunification will be worse. you are talking about two sets of people who have been living with each other in hostility for over 50 years. as much as you and me hhate it, but religion based politics is here to stay and hence we have to accept its consequences. unless the mind set of the common man does not change, how do you expect politics to change.

try floating this idea in pakistan and see the kind of response you get. you can gget a cross section of the views here on chowk itself, wait till monto hears about this.

more over, indians will not let partition be undone. what ever crap that the BP might say about akhand bharat, no indian in his right mind will allow the partition to be undone.

seriously sir, stop living in a fools paradise.

rgds,

devkant.

I do not like Pakistani dictator`s backdoor policy towards Kashmir; Pakistan`s policy should always be front-end towards Kasmir. After all it is Hindus who have killed hundereds of thousands of Kashmiris and not us.

pass the pipe

salim mian,

...... i understand your dream and desire to reestablish your turkic ancestors` sultanate of delhi, but i think it might be difficult to keep the restless natives in line this time around ............. i know that you will say that we were able to do it for a thousand years, but that was before they had learned to eat meat and set up iits and learned to write code in j2ee ......... do you really want rule over people like arjun and bjkumar and their female counterpart, sadna ?............. sure we could add their heads to the millions of skull towers that will have to built along sher shah suri road from lahore to delhi, but unlike babar we will have to deal with cnn and geo broadcsting the tamasha across the globe and the clown in the vatican going `tch, tch, didn`t i tell you these saracens are incorrigible!`` .............

......... no sir! it is a noble dream but a bad idea - for now i would be happy just reuniting with kashmir ............ in any case, pass the pipe - it seems to be good stuff !

Re: # 133

Hamidm sahib:

Good way to start the day... by reading some one else`s pipe dreams.

``....happy just reuniting with kashmir ............ ``

Why not diversify with Indian Kashmir. Think about it, there many economic advantages also.

Re: # 134

anil mian,

....... i did mean ``all of kashmir`` - unlike our shameless and fickle dictator, i believe that pakistan`s position on kashmir is just and not negotiable .......... of course i don`t advocate going to war over it - not because it would be wrong, but simply because you don`t fight a war that you cannot win ............ after all, china did not go to war over hong kong or macau or taiwan, and neither did japan invade russia to get back the disputed islands - similary, pakistan should stick to its position and when the time is right, good things will happen ............

..........in the mean time, it is nice to dream about the green and white flying once again from the ramparts of the red fort in delhi .............

#132 by Urstruly on December 21, 2006 7:54am PT


I do not like


And you`re going to do what about it...?

let me rephrase..

and you can do what about it?

Re: # 136

I will vote the dictator out in the next elections. I belive in democratic means, as much as you do.

Dear Chowkie friends,

I have finally accomplished the impossible. I have managed to bring together almost all the Indians and nearly all the Pakistanis on Chowk together on a single issue. :) The only silver lining is that Brother Urstruly has my posts on permanent ``ignore.`` :)

Hamidm2 Sahib has painted this son of Prithviraj as eager to restore the Turkic Sultanate of Delhi. Flying the green and white from the ramparts of the Red Fort may be a fine dream, but I would hasten to add the saffron color to make it much nicer. :)

Sir, I have no desire to rule over arjun, bj, or sadna. Had you mentioned priyanka, lara, bipasha, pooja batra, or katrina kaif, I may have been tempted - rather I would have said ``yes.``

Seriously, my wish is to see a united people committed to secularism, democracy, freedom, fairness, and progress - kinda like cloning hamidum2 all over barr-e-saghir. :)

Shri Devkant attributed my dangerous dream to foolishness - something that hamidum2 was kind enough to blame on the purity of the pipe`s contents. Sir, ``changing the mindset`` is exactly what is needed and I am happy to note that this is already taking place in BOTH countries. Pakistani Mullahs and the Orange Brigade will drive the citizens of both countries into each other`s arms.

Tahmed32 is now questioning the consistency (and sanity) of my thought process - ``you know how Salim is sometimes...`` Well sir, if in 1920, someone suggested that India should be divided in two, and then further division of Punjab, Bengal, and Assam along religious cracks should follow, along with a bidirectional transfer of tens of millions of impoverished, ravaged, looted, and raped peasants across this holy schism, people like you would laugh and not even bother to confine such a dreamer in an insane asylum at taxpayer expense.

Shishapa Aapa has already voted with his thumbs and as we all know that makes him a primate once and for all. :)

HD (I won`t even guess the meaning of this abbreviation) is at least offering encouragement. Also, he/she offers some solid advice - not only will listing of advantages/disadvantages prove my point, it might even open some eyes glued shut by the hot wax of lingering hatred. Thanks.

Shabash Subhashijoshi Sahib - thank you for positive realism and kind wishes. Yes, it is OK to dream sometimes especially when staying awake is so depressing. Happy holidays to you too my friend.

Re: # 136

arjun mian,

........... doesn`t it scare you a little bit that on this issue even i agree with urstruly ?....... i find it scary and, to tell you the truth, it is not something i would publicize .......... even though we pakis are a fractious lot given to internecine feuding and much bloodletting, we all seem to agree on kashmir - it must be in our blood ............ personally you won`t find me breaking a nail or breaking into a sweat over some poor kashmiri being harassed by a keralite; on the other hand, with the way things are going in michigan, urstruly might decide to become a cross border tourist until the economy turns around and he can go back to designing windsheld washer bottles or writing j2ee code while being harassed by his keralite supervisor ........... right, urstruly ?

Re: # 138

Salim,

Hain, you are calling me primate? Man, I need to learn to throw fits like some of
the posters on UP for such grave insults and abuses. So much to learn from the gurus.

Re: # 139

what the heck is j2ee code? Sounds insulting.

shishapa: So you are not a primate?

urstruly: have you conquered kashmir and the rest of the world yet?

Re: # 142

tahmedji,

I am invoking fifth amendment