India, Pakistan and the Kashmir dispute

Dear Ferozk,

The more you argue with filth, the more filth you`ll be covered in. But I admire the way you have handled the fat nazi.

Fat Nazi`s posts speak volumes for the need for dissemination of ``Lord of the Flies`` in hindi. Maybe it will be a sort of a mirror for an incredibly sick society.

Re:ferozk#43

[..The situation in Pakistan is fluid and it is unsettled because the nation is in the process of changing; changing from the policies of the past....]

That is an interesting point. Given that you live in Pakistan, I will take your word that Pakistan is in a state of flux.

The real question is the following - what is the Pakistani establishment`s long term vision of its relations with India, given a compromise on Kashmir? Assuming that a compromise in Kashmir satisfies only halfway the aspirations of the Pakistani establishment, will it truly bury the hatchet? Will it give up rivalry with India and open up trade, travel and transit rights to Central Asia? Will there be complete normalization? I am not sure the answers to these questions are a ``Yes`` any time soon.

The only way to move forward is to adopt the China-Taiwan model. Put aside the Kashmir dispute, give it the perfunctory lip service and focus on normalizing relations otherwise. If Pakistan is willing to fully normalize relations with India like any two sovereign countries, that will send the strongest possible signal to India that there is real change happening in Pakistan and as such, it is worthwhile to compromise on Kashmir.

Dear BJ,

yASSer goes `there` (u know that from Dr. Hoodbhoy board) unconsciously all the time. Now he remembers his family profession nautanki (whilst referring to Sadna). Prolly he`s a product of napaaki Heera Mandi of LaWhore. You know it`s easy money from that profession. He`s able to go to Rutgers with easily gotten money. However the genes - family and national - wont go away that easily.

Dear VRV,

Nautanki is a form of Indian street theatre and has no ``red light`` connotations as far as I know. Sadna is the one who popularised this term by using it for everyone she couldn`t respond civilly too. It turns out that the biggest nautanki in this cyber-town is hers.

But thank you for showing us your auqaat and dragging my family into it. I could venture similar guesses, and from the looks of it I`ll be on the dot. But I am just not going to stoop to your level- because thank god I don`t share your ``genes`` whether ``national`` or ``familial``.

Sometimes I wonder if the Kashmir issue was actually resolved, god forbid, where would 50% of the news on all those Indo-Pak news channels come from, and what would happen to those hordes of writers/reporters/journalists devoted to this very cause?
It might sound stupid, actually it dies, but this whole issue appears to me as some sort of a media conspiracy - a contorted form of the `divide and rule` strategy. lol!

Re: # 53

Maybe you should replace the word `Indian` with `muslim` and that great discourse of yours will make a lot more sense given the way both societies are shaping up, one is confidently opening up while the other is fast withdrawing into its own shell.

PS: BJKumar is no stranger to such abuse that VRV has put up ofcourse. If an Indian (especially a woman) dares disagree with the mighty BJ... he very liberally describes that woman as a ``whore``.

So maybe this is a national psyche.... infact a severe psychological wound on the Indian male`s psyche, borne from some deep rooted sense of inadequacy as well delusional narcissistic megalomania. It is for this reason that the Indian male more readily drags his female family members as well as others as object of ridicule. Since a woman is the axis of ``social and moral`` values of the Indian male, it makes perfect sense to make her a goddess or make a whore or burn her at the stake. Sati-ism, as I like to call it, is Indian culture... for Pakistanis sadly it is also cultural lag.

Yasser,

Nautanki is a UP+Bihari art just like Mujra. Rest of India has nothing to do with it. Dont disown those two (nautanki and Mujra) coz u have mujras in Pakikstan as well.

2. Urdu is also an Indian language which u took as ur own.

How can u disown Nautanki, Mujra and Urdu as napaaki?

As for `levels`, u are not a holyman. For that to be clear read ur own posts.

U dont know India`s diversity. India is not UP and Bihar.

PS: HP is no stranger to such abuse. If an Indian (especially a woman) dares disagree with HP... he very liberally describes that woman as a ``whore``. He did once for Sadna.

Ref tolkinin #36

[Women have now most rights than dead jessica lal]

If you know the Jessica Lal story, she was shot dead and her killer, a relative of former President Shankar Dayal Sharma, got convicted of murder despite tampering with evidence and an earlier aquittal.

Yeah, Pak women have more rights. Any Hindu girl under 14 years of age in Pakiland has the ``right`` to freely convert to Islam and marry a Muslim man 35 years old whom she hasn`t seen before.

Pak Muslim women get their Canadian visas very easily: they don`t have to provide evidence of financial support while in Canada; they don`t have to give valid reasons for seeking admission to Canada. According to President Pervez Musharraf, all they have to do is get gang-raped... which is not too difficult in Pakistan despite the Koran`s admonition to men to keep their gazes lowered. Yeah, I know, the Koran didn`t say anything about keeping your penis lowered.

What is this paki/napaki buddy... I was not aware that Nautanki is a form of mujra. Thanks for telling us that Sadna`s abuses have a sexual/red light connotation at some level.

#56 by harimau on December 19, 2006 5:32am PT


Pak Muslim women get their Canadian visas very easily: they don`t have to provide evidence of financial support while in Canada;


In fact, the financial assistance is built into the visa....didn`t el-presidente say something about a million $ or so...

Re: # 59

As usual pakis are trying to be too clever by half... supporting taliban on one hand and then inviting chinese military for ``strong support against domestic terrorists``... as if ``domestic terrorism`` just fell from the sky and is not bred, fed and supported by pakis themelves...

:)

Re: # 98
[...USA/Canada where there is no border rivalry ...]

That`s the way it was until 1965 - when pakis got an itch up their collective a00es and got kicked silly for that.... from then on - it`s down the hill all the way...

India-Pak can become US-canada very easily, together they can even be a force to reckon with - but bedouinism stands in the way... as long as ``La illah hila hila`` is there - there will never be any meaningful relationship...

There is nothing pathetic and problematic than macacas behaving like bedouins... :)

Re: # 64
I think that Tahmed is right about Mushrafaf he has played all his card right under the circumstances.

But at the same time Pakistan really will have no startegy of its own or direction, their survial will always be to align with China or US.
While the former may be harmless for now, but the latter has certainly aligned itself with rival India. Meanwhile Indian policy makers are also not sitting idle, they are trying to do the same by aligning with US overtly, by aligning with China as Eastern Culture bhai-bhai logic and simultaneously projecting itself as emerging power for this century.

Both are playing dangerous games, Pakistan being in more deep waters than India.
Most logical approach would be to work towards economic prosperity for the masses and when there is realtive calm(that normally happens with money like in Taiwan, Korea, Hong kong). Perhaps the borders will become more porus, and Pakistan will not send ISI agents as tourists to plant Jihad and India will allow free travel of Kashmiris.

Something like USA/Canada where there is no border rivalry due to economic prosperity that is more or less leveled.

Re: # 59

I am not a strategic thinker but I will blurt out anyway.

The question is, what and where does Pakistan sees itself 10/20/30/50
years from today? Do they have a long term goal/strategy of what
they want to become and are these steps in that direction? Even if they
are, will that vision/strategy will be continued by the next Pakistani leader
or will it be discarded after Musharraf is gone?

There, I thought too much, need to rest.